Chivalry,
 

Is it dead in the 21st Century?

Is it a requirement?

Sisterfriend it is dead and buried.
A brother usually starts out with opening the doors, walking closier to the street, pulling out a chair, but that fades fast.
Not to say I had some dog type brothers, just the opposite, I've had some good men in my life, Praise God. But after awhile those little things stop. I've been opening my own car door so long, that when a man does it, I'm a little thrown back. That's so sad.

It's not completely dead. Let's just say it's on life support. There are a few brothas I have met who are very chivalrous. Unfortunately a lot of them are too old for me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif It's getting to the point that if a guy does open a door for me or something I look at him like he's suspect instead of a gentleman.
On second though yal maybe chivalry is flat linning. Somebody better get those jumper cables!!!

naw; it aint dead yet. it's still some of us fools still around. It's just that alot of yall DON'T DESERVE chivalry. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I sincerely believe that chivalry is alive and well. I've had many men do chivalrous things for me, and these are just casual acquaintances in church, at school, and in the community. I appreciate it and encourage it.

I think that some women today have worn that anti-chivalrous badge (which may pervade in her language and body attitude) so much so that men don't want to do these things for them. You know the type..the ones whom utter: "I don't need no man to open the door for me, I can do it myself." Or the ones who will say: "What is he grinning at?" If a man sees a beautiful woman and is overcome, he will go out of his way to let you know it. Even if you aren't all that pretty and you are just feminine, men will go out of their way. At least that's what I've experienced as have my sister and my friends.

At any rate, no I don't think chivalry is dead. I just think that our brethren may not be willing to always give it because these pseudo-feminists whom are walking around acting as if they don't want any man to do anything for them. What's wrong with someone pulling out a chair for you? What's wrong with a man greeting you with a smile? What's wrong with a man seeking friendly conversation with you and then sending you a flower the day after just because? Sistas, I say that there isn't anything wrong with it.

Here's my pondering: Once you have chivalry, do you know what to do with it? Do YOU know how to receive a chivalrous act?

And yes, for me, chivalry is a requirement. It speaks to your heart and how you really feel. But my brethren shouldn't go all out with the chivalry upon meeting me. Chivalry is like perfume (or cologne for the men). If you overdue it, its overpowering and scares people off. But if you spray on a dab here and there, it creates a pleasant aroma and people will want to be in your company. I say that because as "just friends" there isn't that much of a need for the intensified chivalry. But when you get to that seriously dating level, then it may be time to pull out all stops. But event then, you should just slightly intensify your play. To go back to the perfume example, you should just intensify the power of your scent without overpowering. That may mean that instead of just sprinkling the perfume on, you bathe with the perfumed shower gel and apply some perfumed lotion, but still not strong. You want to provide the right balance in your chivalrous acts.

(Sorry for the long post, but I just felt a need to provide a lesson in Chivalry 101)


[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited June 28, 2001).]

"Chivalry is dead....... and women killed it"
David Chappelle

I don't think chivarly is dead. I've been moving some stuff out of my apartment for the past week and eveyday brothers have offered to help (olders brothers I must admit). I told my man when we first started dating-three years ago-that opening doors, walking on the outside, offering to help women in general were all important to me and he has never failed to do these things. I ALWAYS make sure I say thank-you to him and let him know that I STILL appreciate those things EVERYTIME he does it and that I don't take it for granted.

Although he draws the line at carrying "that BRIGHT-A** PINK CARRY-ON BAG" in the airport. (I'm still explaning the AKA Honey-Do rules.)

chivalry is something you EARN!

I have to slightly disagree....chivalry is something you give to a woman until she shows she does not deserve it!

Sphinxpoet

Chivalry is not dead, at least not to me. I am a woman and so I expect chivalrous treatment when I deal with any man. Like my mommy always says, expect and demand the best!

I tend to agree. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

TOA, so what you're saying is that until a woman proves herself worthy of your chivalrous behavior, no doors will be open and no chairs pulled out, etc?? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif In y'alls forum you were talking bout references... you must be doing something mighty special to keep em coming back! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

"Chivalry is dead...and women killed it."
-Dave Chappelle

Sphinxpoet: Sad but true frat. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Chivalry is alive and well where I reside! My boyfriend is a prince, and treats me like a true gentleman should. This has been in effect for over a year continuously, and he does not miss a beat. However, I will not play it down like I don't return each and every jesture with a sincere display of gratitude.

------------------
Anything Worth Doing Is Worth Doing Well

I do not think Chivalry is dead..amongst REAL MEN AND WOMEN...Like Sisterfriend, Nikki, I have men almost breaking there legs to open a door and offer me attention. However, being the kind of women that I am I always smile and thank them but if I am walking in a door and a man does not open it for me I will simply "OPEN THE DOOR MYSELF" he does'nt know me and who is to say he even saw me. I don't make a big deal out of those things from strangers. However, it is a requirement from my significant other and I will hold the door for him too. I teach my son to hold the door for women now and he is a preschooler. So we cannot be angry that a man does not show chivalry,maybe his Mama did not teach him better than that, just "Open the door yourself."

Frat you are right about that. You know when a sister gets those letter behind her name she thinks she has the world by the balls. Many of my girlfriends have even decided to have kids without the husband. I say if a sister wants to play with the men then be able to take the punches

Frat you are right about that. You know when many sisters get those letters behind their name they think they have the world by the balls. I say if a sister wants to play with the men then be able to take the punches.

I will respectfully disagree with Mr. Professor in regards to the comment of women who get "letters behind their names" (hoping you are referring to professional/academic credentials)think they have the world by the balls. That is a negative perspective. Women in those positions often fight through lots of crap to get to the "highest high" and are often the first ones looking for a chivalrous man because they are tired of having to fight and prove themselves to others in the workplace. Often times, men "assume" that such women don't want to be treated like a lady BECAUSE of the fact she achieved so much and usually on her own. That is simply not the case the majority of the time.

Wow! I'm reading this and I'm like, if I hear that kind of thing one more time, I'm going to blow. Why shouldn't a woman feel self assured once she's accomplished such a thing? That's really wonderful. Now if she's just nasty and doesn't know how to accept chivalrous acts, then that's another thing.

I've just finished my master's and will begin my doctoral program in the fall. And wouldn't say that I'm mean to men who try to be chivalrous toward me. I love it and encourage it. Perhaps these women that you've met, Professor, are just plain out mean and don't know how to receive a compliment or other gentlemen-like deed.

Pardon my less-sophisticated sisters for their ignorance and wait on the quality women that perhaps may come your way.

I think certain kinds of women like chivalry. Some women take it as a threat as the man trying to control them. Some don't even know how to take it! Most of the time it is just a man trying to be nice.

Sphinxpoet

much respect...

i love my brothers *in the strictly platonic way* but i am so glad that i am not str8 after reading some of these replies by the so-called educated black men on this board.

gentlemen...how could you not want to be chivalrous(sp?) to black women? it is true that there are some women that just don't like it. but there are plenty of women out there that want it...but are afraid to ask for it because then a brotha will start looking at her as weak.

alot of this seperation between black men and women harkens back to the saying that "black women raise their daughters and love their sons". so if a black woman does not seem interested in you opening doors, pulling out chairs, paying for dinner etc. that doesn't make her uppity. she has probably had to do that kinda ish for herself for a long time before you came along.

and what happened to communication. how about sitting down with a woman and asking her what does she prefer? does she like "going dutch" for the most part? does she like her chair pulled out/doors opened? when the two of you talk you might find out that she will be shocked that you even thought ahead enough to discuss it with her.

on the other hand...its understandable that men are feeling the sting of the backlash of the feminist movement. women on one hand want "equality" on the other hand want to be catered to. men are left wondering how can they do both and live & work in the same society? i suggest ladies and gentlemen that you read..."When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost" by Joan Morgan (known also as Joan Morgan-Murray executive editor *i believe* of Essence Magazine) she discusses this issue at length.

is chivalry dead? i hope not. its something that i think all women would like to have...whether they know how to ask for it or not. and frankly it doesn't take too much for a man to open the car door for his woman, hold the umbrella over her head when its raining, pull her chair out so she can sit down at dinner, point out broken glass or a crack in the cement so she can avoid stepping on it or tripping over it. its the little things fellas that make women swoon.

just a few thoughts

peace

Good Points LastPoetnsite
I think Brothers need to just treat all women (whether you are attracted to them or not) with chivalry until asked not to. If the Lord ever blesses me with a child(prayfully in wedlock) I would raise my son to always show chivalry to a woman and my daughter not to see chivalry as a threat instead she should expect it.

The Sphinxpoet

Quite frankly, women should not have to "ask" for chivalry. It should just "be", period.

Chivalry is not dead brothers just scared. Have you all heard that saying. But women today feel so independent that they don't give a brother a chance to even be chilvarous that a brother tries to give a woman that independency, so when a brother do be chivalrous he's wrong sometimes and when he don't he's wrong. How can a brother win? But it is not dead. Women just be patient. When I was in school, I'll carry women boxes all across the yard, and sometimes be late for class. But sometimes when I offer some women say no I got it. So I say "Are you sure?" and they say yeah. So I just let it go.

This time in society everyone is trying to have stature even if they ain't got a pot to piss in. The reason it doesn't happen is because people to day really live a life of impressions to the fullest. That goes for women and men. I'm not going to lie, I have seen brothers just sit back and let a sista carry a 35 inch TV and I be trippin'. But there is just a communication gap between brothers and sistas. All because a brother does something nice does not mean he want some from you, cause if that was the case I'll be a super freak and have all the honey's. But Chivalry is not dead we are all just caught up in a fasaad mentally.

LastPoet, that's something that perhaps is an excellent explanation for why some women won't expect chivalrous treatment. What do you think about the self worth aspect?

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/person/pfiade.gif Truly, my hat goes off to you on this one. That' probably the brightest idea I've heard in some time.


I think that all women want chivalry as well. Unfortunately, they don't know how to communicate this need. I'm concerned for those whom don't and settle for less than they are worth.

Brother, you sound as if you have the heart of the truest chivalrist (is that a word?) To me, that's what its all about, the heart. A lack of communication and the various social movements have made the hearts of men and women so hard that the battle of the sexes is at an all time high.

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif If you offered to carry Nikki's boxes, she'd let you carry them. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif As I said before, I encourage chivalry. I know that there are simply things that I, as a woman, am not equipped to do. I also just love seeing the heart of a man when he sincerely is just trying to be nice.


[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited June 28, 2001).]

I don't think it's dead, but I do agree with Dog Dog Bang Bang when he says that it's scared. Case in point, a co-worker was "complaining" because a guy (white) offered to pump her gas. She's going off saying, I don't need his help, I can pump my own gas. I finally told her that he was probaly just trying to be polite. She concluded that he wanted to get with her. That may very well have been the case, but dang, it was just some gas, he wasn't asking for her hand in marriage. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Anyway, I love it when a man holds the door, pulls out my chair, etc. But I agree that many women are just too darn independant and may not even realize when a man is being chilvarous. On the other hand, so many women are so used to doing things themselves, that they just don't think about letting a man do it for them http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

Since we have many fresh/young minds who are relatively new to the board, I thought I'd bring this to the top.

Interesting topic... I have been fortunate enough to find a guy who believes in practicing a bit of chivalry. On one occasion when we were out some girls actually stopped to give him "props" when they saw him open the car door for me:) On the whole, however, I think that chivalry is definitely nearing extinction. Rarely if ever do young men do polite things for women. On any given day on campus you will see these guys literally allowing doors to slam in the faces of ladies walking behind them. Forget about them actually holding the door and letting the girl walk through in front of them. Its gotten to the point where we are actually holding forums on campus to discuss the issue! I think at the same time though, on the rare occasion that a guy does try to do something polite, we as young women don't know how to take it, because usually whenever that does happen we think he's trying to "get with" us (which a lot of the time is the case).

Not excusing the behavior but it's probably leaving because boys don't have it modeled enough for them (father figures.)

A couple of weekends ago, I was walking down the street with my 6-year-old daughter and switched sides, making her walk on the inside of me, away from street traffic. Granted, it was little young for a chivalry lesson, but at least she knows that "boys are supposed to walk closest to the cars."

My boyfriend switches sides with me ALL the TIME. In fact, he will completely stop walking if he notices I'm walking on the outside.

good dude......he a bruh? :cool:

Chivalry is dead and I am in mourning.

you including Harold Ford, Jr. in that? :D

Nope, he's not Greek at all.

I'll let you know if he opens doors for me after I meet him at the CBC meeting in September. :D

How cute! Start her off early TonyB recognize a gentlemen.

I do think there is a lack of chivarous behavior from young men (under 30) in general. I've noticed that older men will still hold the door open, let ladies go first, etc. but younger guys don't (again in general). I've nearly had to go upside my nephew's head when it comes to holding the door open for ladies (he's finally gotten the message). My SO does things like that (open doors, walks on the outside, etc.) which I like. Plus he kills bugs for me to. lol :)

You should just spray them with lysol. I lysol or orange spray anything that moves and if a girl is around, I ask her to take over from there. I feel like I'm helping out by disinfecting and cleaning the area. That there is chivalry.

-Rudey

Chivalry is dead. Laying in the plots right next to it is Courting, Romance.

I dont know when they died. I just looked up one day and they were very dead, like Bob Hope.

I think that I could live withouth chivalry if I could see Courting and Romance again.

Don't know if I've ever even experienced this Romance you speak of. :(

:(