Who is the real cause of all the problems?
 

I have come to my own personal conclusion that it's greeks themselves that are the cause of the negative stereotypes of GLO's and that greeks themselves are NOT doing anything to stop it.

After reading serveral recent posts I am disgusted by the behaviour of several different members from different organizations on this board.

We are all entitled to our opinions. We won't always agree and yes things get a little emotional, but I notice that many people on this board are throwing out insult after insult about each others organizations or governing bodies. I believe that greeks themselves are the worst offender of perpetuating negative stereotypes, and unless we stop doing it ourselves how do we expect non-greeks to do the same.

Shame on us.

Yes, but disagreeing with umbrella organizations or not thinking other nationals are particularly sharp are not the classic negative stereotypes associated with greeks.

Those stereotype are almost imposible to perpetuate here because they invovlve drinking, sex, and elitism in membership selection.

Since this isa bulletin board we can't get get together for drinking and sex, and membership selection really isn't a factor either.

And I would completely agree with this sentiment.

Co-sign


HOWEVER even on this board recently there has been perpetuation of the "classic" neg. stereotypes you mentioned James.. can I site the "Barbie girl chapter" thread/abercrombie model thread... not to mention the "best sorority on campus" thread

I agree that we all need to be respectful adults. However, with collegiate Greek members ranging in age from 16-24, young adults of this age are learning what it means to be independent, mature and adult. College is when they are testing the waters, and mistakes will be made. This is a generalization, to be sure, but it is true of the vast majority of undergraduate students, Greek or no.

The reality is that all college students face the same choices as Greeks. Greeks just happen to be a highly visible component of college life. Thus, the stereotype.

So long as Greeks continue to provide members with ongoing trainings, leadership, etc., and open discussions on what is appropriate, we can do our best to curb the excesses we read about in the papers (hazing, alcohol, assault.) So long as college campuses are providing its students with the necessary training, education and resources, we can guide these young adults to make responsible decisions.

adpiucf, God We can only Hope cant We!:confused:

The compitition among Greeks on Campi for members is the main problem. Oh, We dont want so and so to be bigger than we are! Okay Fantastic, but in the mean time as We all know, it is detrimental to the total picture for Greeks! The BS and infighting makes ALL GREEKS LOOK BAD!:mad:

Hazing and assault are really not all that common except in their most liberal interpretation.

Greeks being good looking is a stereotype Darlin'? Perhaps we should foster that. I could use the ego boost.

Also, I hardly think that deliberately recruiting ugly people in response is a reasonable solution.

And if you aren't conscious of looks during recruitment . . you are rather unique.

I was being a little tongue in cheek earlier. I know Lady Pi Phi was just pissed and had the need to burden us with her venting.

My apoligies for burdening GC with another thread. Won't happen again.

Well I like you Lady Pi Phi, but are you really promising not to be more sensitive about issues than . . say I would be?

That would be fairly rare for a girl lol. :)

Perhaps we should foster that but that is a WHOLE thread all on its own...
however.. you mentioned the stereotype of "elitism of selection" before did you not ? I was just pointing out that we have perpetuated that steretype on this online chat forum with the Barbile girl chapter thread and the Abercrombie boy thread ... I was just attempting to point out that it IS possible for us to perpetuate the "classic stereutypes" you mentioned in your post ,even online, with threads such as those.

No just that I wno't burden you with any more thread about sensitive issues. James I don't want to do anything that would put a burden on your life :)

Come on, James, none of us are rocket scientists, but surely we can all see a difference between "good-looking" and "Barbie-doll"!! As much as you'd like to protest, you know this to be true, too.

As for excusing the younger Greeks for testing their limits, well, there are limits to that, too. Maybe they need to be told that their behavior is inexcusable, and warned that they will be banned. And if it continues, they should be.

As a Greek community, we should be working as one in building up the positive image that Greeks are hard working, able to manage their time, able to delegate, able to cooperate, etc - in other words, the better adult, the better employee. Everytime ONE Greek messes up, the whole system wears the black eye.

Lady Pi Phi, you were spot on, and created some good dialogue. Don't give in to those who can't rise above the trash!

You gals are reinventing cultural Judiasm and applying it to the Greek system. If my dim recollections of religious studies serve me, cultural Judiasm, as reflected in the Old Testament, has a serious component of guilt.

There is an idea that any infraction, by any member, can lead to a violation of the Covenant with God and the abandonment of the Whole People.

Greeks are human we make mistakes, and we also suffer the judgment of those that interpet our actions as mistakes because they don't approve.

I am not sure that appeasement is the answer. And I definitely don't believe that working to create a facade of a Harmonious G-Rated DisneyWorld (or even PG-13) to keep our actions hidden is right or proper.

OKAY, We All Agree James is a Penis!:)

But you have to admit, He is a Loveable one tho!:D

James, Do I Hear an Amen from You!:D

Oh, Where is it by the way!;)

Umbridge, James, We are Greeks, We are Gods, well I guess if you mean in the Greek or Scandianvian Sense! WOW such a big diff!? Or Not!:D

Yes, not everything on GC provides a one hundred percent positive representation of Greeks. Some of them even re-enforce Greek stereotypes. But you know what? Not all Greeks, even the ones on GC, are the complete opposite of every Greek stereotypes. Some of us like to party a lot, some of us like to have sex, some of us like to go tanning, some of us drive expensive cars. You can say, "Don't post threads about Barbie chapters because it promotes the stereotype that Greeks are superficial" but where do you draw the line? "Don't post threads about sex and alcohol because it promotes the idea that Greeks are only about sex and partying"? "Don't post threads about your favorite handbags and Lily dresses because it promotes the idea that all sorority girls are materialistic"?

Yes, the actions of all Greeks reflect on the rest of us. But you can't control what other people do. And there are certainly big enough problems within the Greek system that online message board posts about "Barbie chapters" and disagreements between GCers aren't going to do much more harm than is already done on many campuses on a day to day basis. I wouldn't worry that much about what goes on here when a new hazing case comes up every week.

Didn't say don't post them... just pointed out that they do promote some neg. stereotypes....


I agree Sugar and Spice

thank you sugar and spice for having the words that i didn't

marissa

PM Mama, the word you're looking for is "shallow."

I agree with you 100%. Lately I've started to become much more sensitive every time I see someone trying to push their agenda and block a view. This isn't the same as saying something against it, but wholeheartedly saying it shouldn't exist or be seen.

The fact is that in the barbie thread I brought up that physical features are but one element. I said I would be willing to post on another thread about smart girls in sororities and whatnot. Did anyone create it? No.

Get real. If you think taking good looking people, people who work hard, people who think well, people who dress well is being elitist and solidifies some negative stereotype I'm proud to contribute to it. Here is one fraternity brother who tries hard to be the best that he can be and wants to associate with others who can compare.

As for insulting other orgs - I don't see anyone doing that but girls usually and the occasional fool who tries to attach black glos. You girls can do some internal reflection on why you're so mean.

-Rudey

I think it's unrealistic to have a public message board and expect everyone here that claims they're a member of a GLO to constantly show themselves in a positive light.

While our respective HQ's do all they can to stop it, chapters within our own organizations fit the most liberal stereotypes perfectly. This board was created for them as well.

Rudey's totally right. The reason the Barbie thread came about is I was annoyed with all the conference threads, so James jokingly posted a few satires of it, but the Barbie one was the only one that took off.

My observation of Greeks is this; "GREEKS ARE INDIVIDUALS" period. An organization is comprised of individuals, and no matter how much you all attempt to weed out the bad apples, there is an asshole in every group. There is someone there for the parties, or the step-shows, or just to have your organization listed as a "college activity." That's just how the cookie crumbles. One cannot seriously expect every member of their organization to behave a certain way, and why on Earth would you want to? What's the purpose of a bunch on drones running around with ABC on their chest?

However, I do think some of the negative thoughts about Greeks can be avoided, though you all are individuals some of the things you do are just, let's face it DUMB! That's the honest truth. For example, there is always a chapter searching for the "Good-Looking" members. Deny it if you want, it's the truth. I mean, what kind of elementary mess is that? Oh shucks, you're smart and all, but we prefer dumb blondes?

Also, WTH is up with some of the attitudes? I mean really. I respect all orgs; well let me rephrase that, most orgs. but halt the attitude seriously. We all know you earned your letters, that's fine and all but WANT A COOKIE? Just because you're Greek do you REALLY have to be an ass?

Also, Greeks are supposed to be the elite portions of our society, people of high caliber. People who became Greek 30 yrs ago would put some of these low-budget current members to shame. What happened to being selective?

That's just my opiNIon.

Just wondering what exactly constitutes "low-budget current members"

Where is your citation for this "fact?"

30 years ago, the national greek system was a mess. There was declining numbers, and very bad risk management issues. It was right before law suits began to rock the fraternal world. If "low-budget" means that a chapter no longer forces its members to the precipice of alcohol poisening, then so be it.

Be just a little careful, Russ. You're heading for some thin ice.

The reasons for declining numbers thirty years ago were more societal than due to a weakness in the system. During and post Vietnam it was "cooler" to be a hippy than a Greek. And the litigious society wasn't totally caused by the Greek System -- it's the same in every walk of life and still building. Risk Management is not just a Greek problem, but is everywhere in business and industry as well.

We did know how to party back in the sixties, but at least in the region where I went to school, you didn't hear about nearly as many deaths, and I can't remember a chapter being closed on our campus in that era.

I'm certainly not saying that we were angels and had the right answers. Hazing was fairly rampant, but nobody had really defined it yet.

We made a lot of mistakes, but I'm not sure your generality would hold up under close scrutiny.

I don't have any hard evidence to back up what I wrote. I'm going by what I've been told by national officers, who were undergrads at that time. They seem to have a consensus, that those times also influenced a more care free attitude inside the chapters.

I'm sorry that I have shame my fraternity by being a low-budget member.

I disagree that Greeks are viewed as individuals within our society. Like it or not, while we are individual beings with our own motivations for doing things, we have chosen to be associated with Greek Life, and we're going to be stamped with the elitist, aryan, partying, sex-crazed stereotype. For all the good the we do-- fundraising, community service, leadership training, sportsmanship, being good scholars-- it just take a couple of idiots doing something ridiculous to make news-- and make us all look stupid, too.

As a group, we must educate our members and reinforce what actions are inappropriate for Greeks. Bad PR is what the media adores, and it perpetuates the Animal House stereotype that so many of us are trying desperately to destroy.

As I see it, our only responsibility is to uphold the values on which we swore. If we do that, most of our public perception problems will go away.

We will never be able to eliminate all of the negative feelings towards us, because there will always be jealous people, who resent groups of people, who are inconsistent with their world view.

Glad You Admitted Your Faults;)

As for what I mean by "low-budget current members" take a look around GreekDom. Yes, there are wonderful men and women who are Greek but yes there are HORRIBLE men and women who are Greek. People getting killed everytime you turn around, a lawsuit here, a lawsuit there. A rape in this Frat house, another one down the road. Dislike the truth all you want, but that doesn't change it.

I know people who became Greek in the 70's, my uncle is a member of a NPHC organization his wife is an alumnus of a NPC organization, we talk all the time about how things have changed over the years. They tell me that the problem with these "kids" nowadays is that they've forgotten what Greekdom is about. Kinda like the problems in all parts of our society, people have strayed away from their roots, and that's understandable, times change. But some people really do disgrace their letters. Again, this is not what everyGLO members is about, but the question was who is the root of the problem, the Greeks are the roots of their own darn problems. Contrary to popular belief, society didn't have as much disdain for organizations as they do now in the earlier part of the 20th century. Most orgs were founded between what 1880-1930? A time full of problems. The Greeks were there to assist in resolutions not add to the problems. Provide a network for people to come together, not be a hot load of fools wearing the same colors. People use to have respect for their organizations, for themselves.

Again, these aren't blanket statements, there are some orgs who though some members have strayed, still represent what Greek life is about, and I respect that. What I DONT respect is denying the truth, denying that members of their organizations are falling into a black hole of indecency.

You REALLY believe that all the people who tell the truth about Greeks are jealous? You GOTTA be kidding me....

Please read my entire post, and don't quote me out of context.

Very true. There are people who can witness every single one of our members doing community service and getting 4.0 every semester and holding every campus office, but they'll still say Greeks are the devil because they have issues with any group that has selective membership. Until we eliminate that aspect of fraternities and sororities, there's always going to be people that hate us just on principle - even if Greeks at their school are relatively open and accepting. They're the sort who see one member doing a shot at a bar and turn it into an alcohol induced orgy involving 6 fraternities, all in their head. We need to stop pandering to these kind of idiots and trying to win them over - we need to have more respect for ourselves than to bang our heads against a brick wall.

Maybe I misread it. But again, you still gotta be kidding me.

I've always wanted to be white.....thanks :)

What about my first paragraph in that post?
That addresses the bad behaviour. If greeks simply behaved as who we claim we are, then there would be almost no criticism of us. Except from jealous people.

Ok;)

Greeks Suck!

Why would one ask?

Yes to all of the questuion and answers to all of the above!:)

Peoples perception of Greeks are Born of what they see today, not in History.:(

History:

1. How many Greek Male Chapters were closed during WW I, WW II because Brothers of Those Chapters went to fight?

2. How many Men could afford to join Geek Elites because of Money?

3. What has been the GPC of Greeks compared to Regular College Students?

4. How much do Greeks partipate in Charitable Organizations?

5. What is the perceptiable Ideas of peope today when a member of af a Greek Organization dies today? What was it back 20-30-40-50-60 yearts ago?

Do you think that TX, Sn, and others were started as rich students? No, these were started at Military Academys!
Fighting oppersion as a member of the Corp of Cadets.

LXA, was not started by rich men who were all or most all of your age.

Were The Soroities Founded at at Colleges as We know them today! ?

Have things changed, yes. Has Time Changed, yes. Are the same Principles and Values eixist today! ? You make that judgement!

Does some Chapter of any Fraternity/Soroity who do stupid things reflect upon all of us! Well, Hell Yes They Do! Now, the Media can print it all over the world!:eek: