the madrid blast
 

i was just wondering what they are saying over in america as far as who caused the bombings... because here they are saying its most likely E.T.A. and i heard in america they are saying al queda... any thoughts?

p.s. if you want more info on this about what they are saying over here- let me know

I'd say reports are mixed. Allegedly Al Queda has claimed responsibility, but at least NPR is still reporting that the Spanish government still suspects ETA (Basque).

Seems to me that the CIA sees Al Queda behind every bush (oops, no pun intended -- honestly -- make it "rock" if you want) these days, but this event does have some of their flavor to it -- notably attacking a place sure to be packed with people with impressive timing and without giving any warning.

Edited to change the spelling of Basque -- I couldn't remember how it was spelled. Thanks to posters below.

This is so sad!! I've spent a lot of time in Madrid, and am really horrified to see such things happen to such a beautiful city and country. Spain has had problems with ETA for a long time, although the NY times article said that ETA was denying the bombing, and that this one would be an odd turn since they generally bomb political figureheads. However, they are the immediate suspects, especially since elections are on Sunday.

A lot of current speculation is saying that maybe the Basques did this in conjunction with Al Qaeda.

The Al Qaeda link is based on the discovery of a van containing the same explosives used in the attack and muslim religious materials.

Re: the madrid blast
 

I'd very much like to know, as I'll be in Spain and England in a few days...

They are now saying ETA is denying responsibility.

This attack took place 2-1/2 years after the September 11 attacks, also 911 days after 9/11. I'm sure this was deliberate, but it's still creepy. :eek:

My Sole Hope Is That They Find This Scum Of The Earth!:mad:

When it is done, harsh as it may sound dont kill them, put them on trial and belittle them! Shame them in the Eyes Of Their So Called GOD!

While I am brought up in the Christian Religion, and try to study others, this is THE MOST STUPID THING I HAVE EVER HEARD OF ALONG WITH THE DEATH OF ANY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS INNOOCENT!

These People are Animals and should be treated as such!:mad:

What God do they represent?:confused:

They support None, They want political Power!:(

[rant on] Shee-it... they need to start retaliation by decimation... for every one Spaniard, American, and/or other allies of the USA, 10 (or more) suspected terrorists will pay with their lives. Need to give some hostile villages and countries some B-52 urban renewal! Al-Qaeda whacked over 3000 on 9/11/01, payback's 30,000 (give or take a few thousand ;) ) of 'em! :mad: [/rant off]

Doesn't look like it's the work of the 'ETArras' (what the Spaniards call members of ETA); like the IRA, they like to call in a coded warning that a bomb's about to go off, usually allowing for just enough time for cops to clear the streets of bystanders. It could be a splinter cell of ETA for all we know, or even World Enemy #1 Al-Qaeda.

;) yeah... that worked real well for the Germans in WWII as well.... ;)

I didn't bother to count, but got a e-mail that said it was 911 days since the 9-11 terror attack in NY.

I have been listening to a really bizarre radio program-Coast to Coast a.m. The most recent guests have been talking about secret societies (Illuminati, Bilderbergs) and charging that these attacks are part of a master plan which aims to achieve one world order. I get into that kind of stuff, but keep it in perspective.

Skull and Bones?

The Illuminati probably never existed, and Bilderberg is a private conference, not a secret society.

As Freud once said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

What happened in Spain was probably done by Al Qaeda, and the current Spanish government appears to be pointing the finger at ETA to manipulate public opinion for tomorrow's election.

Delt Alum-Bohemian Grove.

Russell, I have some personal info on their reality, but if I told you...I'd have to kill you! Do a bit of research on The Carnegie Endowment for World Peace.

Delt Alum-Bohemian Grove.

Russell, I have some personal info on their reality, but if I told you...I'd have to kill you! ;)
Do a bit of research on The Carnegie Endowment for World Peace and the original trustees. That is ALL I will say on this.

and the TriLateral Commision, and the CFR...

The people in these groups are not that secret, or you wouldn't be able to do research on them. The members of these groups have a hard time agreeing with each other, let alone a unified approach to global domination.

You can get a copy of the TriComm's membership by asking them for it.
http://www.trilateral.org/

I think it's pretty early to draw that conclusion, even if there is some logical evidence to point that direction.

While this does not fit ETA's traditional MO, the recent arrests of their members with huge amounts of explosives might indicate a change in their thought process and operations.

The CIA tends to see Al Qaeda in almost everything that looks like terrorism these days.

The Spanish government is working in its own backyard and looking at a group with which it has a long history.

While, in the end, they may be wrong, under the circumstances I would tend to go with their suspicions before those of the agencies of other countries who might have agendas to point more fingers and put more pressure on their number one enemy -- Al Qaeda.

After all, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Great quote.

Russell-Double post sorry-
The original trustees is the important part. As far as the research-that's not what I'm going on. It's merely supportive of what I already know. We just have a different frame of reference.

Spain Announces Five Arrests in Bombings
 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...mbings_arrests

AP- 5 Minutes Ago

MADRID, Spain - Spain's interior minister Saturday announced the arrest of five suspects in the Madrid bombings, including three Moroccans.

The other two suspects had Indian passports, a ministry spokesman said.

The five were arrested in connection with a cell phone inside an explosives-packed gym bag found on one of the bombed commuter trains.

The suspects "could be related to Moroccan extremist groups," the minister said. "But we should not rule out anything. Police are still investigating all avenues. This opens an important avenue."

The 10 bombings on Thursday, which killed 200 people on Madrid commuter trains, amounted to the worst terror attack in Spanish history.

Families began burying their dead Saturday as a cold drizzle fell on Madrid on the eve of parliamentary elections.

In a show of national unity, massive crowds gathered in Barcelona, Seville, Valencia and even in Spain's Canary Islands off western Africa on Friday night to protest the attack. State TV said nationwide, more than 11 million marched — one-quarter of Spain's 42 million people.

In Madrid, black bows of mourning dotted the city, on shop windows, on flags draped from balconies, and on lapels.

Madrid's biggest funeral home, Tanatorio Sur, was so overcrowded that some coffins were placed in a room normally used for staff meetings. Outside, hearses carried coffins in and out all morning.

Investigators were focusing on a stolen white van found in the town of Alcala de Henares outside Madrid hours after the blasts. Police found detonators and an Arabic-language cassette tape with Quranic verses inside. Alcala de Henares is the town where three of the four bombed trains originated.

A doorman told police he saw three young men carrying knapsacks toward the station in Alcala de Henares, a senior police official said Saturday on condition of anonymity. Officials have said the bombs used in the train attacks were concealed in knapsacks.

The doorman saw the men get out of the van and "walk toward the train carrying backpacks and he was struck by the fact that they were wearing ski masks when the weather was not suited for that kind of clothing," the official said.

"It is one of the main focuses of the investigation," the official said. "It is very important."

A London-based Arabic newspaper also received a claim of responsibility in al-Qaida's name that called the attack "part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam."

The attack's lethal coordination and timing — 10 explosions within 15 minutes — suggested al-Qaida. But the compressed dynamite used in the backpack bombs is an explosive favored by the Basque separatist group ETA.

ETA issued an apparently unprecedented denial Friday, saying it had nothing to do with the bombings. It has claimed responsibility for more than 800 deaths since 1968 in its fight for an independent state in the northern Basque region.

Debate on who is behind the attacks could sway voters in Sunday's election.

If ETA is deemed responsible, that could boost support for Mariano Rajoy, Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's hand-picked candidate to succeed him as prime minister. Both have supported a crackdown on ETA, ruling out talks and backing a ban on ETA's political wing, Batasuna.

However, if Thursday's bombings are seen by voters as the work of al-Qaida, that could draw their attention to Aznar's vastly unpopular decision to endorse the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites) and deploy Spanish troops there.

Opinion polls have put Rajoy 3-5 percentage points ahead of Socialist candidate Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. No surveys have been released since the attacks.

Aznar, in power since 1996, is honoring a pledge not to seek a third term, saying he wants renewal in government and his party.

Spanish radio station Cadena Ser broadcast a 12-second recording of an unidentified woman who had called a colleague's voice mail after an initial blast on a train at the Atocha station.

The woman, who survived, was in the process of fleeing as she frantically says: "I'm in Atocha. There's a bomb on the train! We had to _" and then two more blasts are heard.

I think that this an interesting topic, so I started a thread here:
http://GreekChat.com/gcforums/showth...threadid=48010

Pretty interesting. Al Queda really seem to want to take responsibility for this one -- including a video tape. But the Spanish Government is still pointing the finger at ETA.

Could be some politics involved, but would the Spanish Goverment really play games with lying about this kid of situation?

I'm of two opinions about this.....

1) The Spanish government stands to lose a lot if it was Al Queda, they supported Bush even though 90% of the population was against it.... so if the people are now being targeted by Al Queda as a result the government gets burnt. So fingering the ETA for it avoids a lot of messy politics and ruined careers.
-or-
2) The Spansih government is looking to finally crush any remaining support for the ETA; and with millions of people out in the streets protesting the violence that could be a very real possiblity. But this opinion requires you to believe that Al Queda did it and the Spanish government is capable of such cynical actions.

Damn. I didn't realize how bad my typing and spelling were the other night.

But, it looks like the answer to the question is "Yes."

Seems to me, though, that Al Queda would have a bigger grudge overall with Great Britain. Maybe the security there is much better.

Anyway, RA, looks like common wisdom at the moment backs up your thesis.

This seems Al Qaeda "like" but I seriously doubt they're responsible. I mean, Madrid? Spain has what, a couple thousand troops in Iraq? I doubt Al Qaeda would exert this much energy on Spain.

actually- al queda is accepting responsible for this- it had all the signs of them... i was pretty apprehensive to believe it was them- but ETA completely denied responsibility for it- and the pres at the time was saying it was ETA and the elections were to be held in 3 days- as a result- the socialist party was voted in by a wide majority... (not sure the politics behind this- i'm still reading reports- i just heard about this story on my way to class when i saw someone reading the paper on the tube (the subway here).... apparently the new president is threatening to pull troops out of iraq because of the threat of another attack unless the UN intervenes... also- i heard that al queda threatened japan with attack if they intervened in the middle east... something is up here... there are guards all over the tube and a massive campaign to keep everything under control and there are travel alerts all over europe for americans...i'll post more as i know it...

here's the link to the iraq thing:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3512144.stm

info on al queda- bbc : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3511180.stm

Initially, I agreed, but it's hard to discount some of the stuff coming out now.

It's sad that you can break a country with one blast. Spain might have just made its name onto a list of countries that has no backbone. We'll see.

-Rudey

I was watching Fox News earlier and supposedly Al Qaeda has confessed. I don't know if I believe that though. Perhaps some Al Qaeda spin-off groups but not Al Qaeda directly. Then again they trained thousands of people, who knows.

Anyone hear Rush today?

nothing new. al qaeda actually took responsibility for the attack right after it happened.

agreed. i read the paper today about how the socialist party was now in charge and how the ppl want to pull out of iraq, etc., etc.....i understand not wanting to fight, but HELLO?! these ppl just attacked the isht out of you, and so you do just what THEY WANT?!

it makes no sense to me. i don't understand how ppl just want to let them win.......just like saying, "oh, ok...you bombed us and killed 200 of our ppl.....eh....." and then a lil later from now saying, "oh, so now you wanna take over our country and spread al qaeda ideals across the land....uummmm.....ok....."

:eek:

proud to be in a country that believes in fighting fire with fire. so flame away! ;)

I saw Rush in concert in Jacksonville in 1990. They were great.

I think they are thinking they were attacked BECAUSE they were allied with the US.Meaning if they hadn't been,the attack wouldn't have happened.Maybe they think if they get out now,nothing else will happen. ETA:I didn't know how to say that without making it sound like I was speaking for the Spanish people.I am not in the least,just interpreting what I think the news was trying to say.





I saw them two years ago and am seeing them this summer again.Always a fabulous show.They played for almost 3 hours.

true, true.....it was also stated in the article that the polls showed that 90% of the population didn't want anything to do with the iraqi situation in the first place and were testy they were ever involved. talk about drAma.....

but still....maybe i'm in the huge minority with this one....but i don't care what your reason for using terrorism in my country is......whether it's my association with another country or whatever....you attack me, kill my countrymen, and i'm not gonna just do what they want, which is back away from the situation. ya know?

their association prob was why they were attacked....but there is no justification for terrorism....and that's why i am confused as to why they are so adamant about going back to "neutral"...once al qaeda or whoever sees they are like this, they are prey to everything, IMO.

Exactly. I think this was a rush to judgement on the Spanish peoples' part. Al Qaeda was operating in Spain long before the US led coalition went into Afghanistan and Iraq. Al Qaeda is against any Western, Christian society. Spain is still 99% Catholic last time I checked and therefore are most likely still on Osama's shit list.

This is a huge victory for Al Qaeda though. This European thinking is the exact same type of thinking the US had in WWII up until Pearl Harbor. The difference here is that the Japanese just bombed Madrid and the Spanish people elected another party and decided to try to negotiate with them.

One of the major arguements used by the opposition (now in power) party was that by supporting Bush/US you were getting involved in a problem that didn't concern Spain.... the feeling was amongst alot of the protesters and such (from what I could gather watching reports a year or so ago) was that Spain was dealing with it's own terrorism problem and most people didn't want to invite any more trouble. The old party more or less promise that it could guarentee the safety of the Spainish people against any further terrorist threats, and that by supporting Bush/US in Iraq would actually increase their collective security......

Now if Al Queda is responsible for this attack then they played the game of political terrorism perfectly, elimanated the supporting party of a coalition nation, and quite possibly removed Spain's military commmitment to the coalition in one attack.

Saw them in 94 or 93 during the Counterpart tour in Nassau coliseum. Great time. Wish I could see them during this tour. Damn the ocean.

Um...I'm certain most of you know that JAM is probably talking about a certain conservative radio host who, at least at one time, had a drug problem.

OK, so I don't like him. Don't much like anyone too far left or right.

Who's the conservative radio talk show host? Geddy Lee? Alex Lifeson? Neil Peart? I thought that they were just rock stars.

Didn't Alex Lifeson got arrested last year?

I read about that in the newspaper this past weekend that the People of Spain has voted out pretty much the Administration that was supporting the U.S. Invasion of Iraq. Now they wanted to serve ties with the U.S. and renew their ties with other countries like Germany who oppose the U.S. Invasion.