Bush ads upset 9/11 families
 

NEW YORK (AP) -- President Bush's re-election campaign on Thursday defended commercials using images from the September 11 terrorist attacks, including wreckage of the World Trade Center, as appropriate for an election about public policy and the war on terror.

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

The Firefighters union has also said that the use of pictures of firefighters at "Ground Zero" is also disrespectful to them and the police who died on 9/11.

This is going to be a very interesting election season, with everyone and everything under a microscope.

I'm not sure how it's disrespectful.

The tragedy doesn't belong to just the people who experienced it first hand. It belongs to the entire country. As the Nation's leader at the time, Bush has plenty of right to use those images. As a national tragedy that still effects us today, I think it's very relevant.

I guess those that lost loved ones feel is trying to benefit off the tragedy of thers.

I think that if enough people feel it's disrespectful, then they should voice their distain and not vote for him.

i find it quite disrespectful and (fortunately) i didn't lose anyone in the attacks. my feeling is there is a time and a place for everything, and this is not the time and place for it. to me, it seems like Bush is using these national tragedies to make sure he stays employed, in a way.

Does that mean that a firefighter whos job it is to put out fires that cause people a lot of misery shouldn't list his or her experience on their resume?

I really fail to see why these folks are "offended" about this (or if they actually are). I think this is an entirely politically motivated attack. Bush is highlighting the fact that he and his supporters think he's done an excellent job as President following the 9/11 attacks.

Just mudslinging.

Monarchies, without civil rights, are tasteful. Democracies are sloppy.

It is perfectly reasonable for President Bush to highlight how he reacted to 9-11, a defining moment in American history, and something still unresolved.

It is also reasonable for the American people to withdraw their arbitrary support for the President, and begin to view him critically.

Any American who refrains from taking a critical look at the President, during the election season, in my opinion, is a bad American.

Also, in my opinion, any American, who uses emotional impact, and subjective standards of taste, to admonish those who seek to discuss an issue as important as 9-11, is a bad American.

People who are offended by the 2004 method of selling political ideas, via mass media, simply need to get over it. Rest assured that the Kerry camp will use similar methods against President Bush, as is the Kerry campaign's constititional right.

That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that the families of victims believe he is profiting/benefiting from a tragedy.
While it is a firefighters job to save lives and put out fires...and yes they are tragedies, a figherfighter doesn't go around showing pictures of the people he saved to prove to employers that he's a good figherfighter. These are two different things.
This is kind of like when people were trying to sell mugs and t-shirts with victims vaces on and their familes protested. Because they felt these retailers/sellers/manufactures were trying to profit of the death of their loved one not preserve their memory.


And yes it is a pollitically motivated attack. This is politics afterall.

Already happened.

By the same standard, Kerry shouldn't be using his 4 months in Vietnam to enhance his image since he turned around at the time and marched with Hanoi Jane.

I see a difference.

Kerry, I think, uses pictures of himself. The Bush ads use pictures of others.

I wonder if they got release forms from the Firefighters in the video?

If so, the argument is moot, I guess.

Yes, I think this is the main problem. If he had put the pictures of himself rallying the workers or giving speeches or something it wouldn't be such an issue. But to see a dead body being removed on a strecher? I do think it's a bit much - and I'm not one of the people who believes the area is "sacred ground" b/c people died there.

All broadcasters should be fined by the FCC for this and we need to have this banned in several cities.

-Rudey

I see your point Lady Pi Phi...but the 9/11 victims sure didnt mind benefiting financially from their own tragedy by demanding more and more $$ on a state and federal level.. Of course thats not Politically Correct to say...but its the truth. (An aside I actually think its insane to talk about the 9/11 victims as if they all think the same....but that seems to be the way the convo is going.) THe 9/11 victims do not own this tragedy.
BUSH's presidency has been and will be defined by 9/11 and the war on terror...and for anyone to suggest that he shouldn't talk about that is just good ol' partisan politics at its best. Dems and Liberals alike will crap their pants if he finds Bin Laden ...its so crazy...its not about the war on terror...its about hating a president and his administration..

I am so glad I am above the fray and don't get bogged down into partisan, one-track mind politics...

HOO RAY for the Independent thinkers in the world!

I can't even believe anyone is offended by this. It just goes to show how far ingrained that political identification is in our election process. People don't even look at things objectively. It's "It's a Republican conspiracy to gain sympathy votes. Bush is benefitting off the deaths of innocents!!" Seriously, anyone that believes that is an idiot. It's the same with the right-wing side. Soon as Kerry comes out with something that is slightly controversial eveyone will get fired up about that.

I also think it's funny that more people will probably decide on who they are voting for over something like this than an actual issue.

I definitly agree with you here. This was a nation's tragedy.

The way I see it is, if someone a or a group of people feel another preson or group is profiting is of a tragedy, what they need to do is quit their bitching and hit them where it hurts the most...their pocket books or in this case the polls.
If there are that many people out there that have issues with this ad campaign then there need to let it be known at the polls.

OK, but it hasn't been broadcast yet. Only Cablecast. There's a difference.

That's what you call splitting hairs.

You drive me insane with those posts because you obviously know I won't know bizarre details like that lol.

-Rudey
--Stop bragging about how smart you are.

Is that any different than Democrats using the same tragedy to make sure they stay employed?

The writer forgot to mention the fact that the one group that is complaining about the ad is run by Teresa Heinz aka Teresa Heinz Kerry.

Exactly. This is your perfect example of "Damned if you do, and Damned if you don't".

The same people calling foul now would express outrage that 9/11 wasn't mentioned at all.

And the first people screaming would be funded by non-American born Teresa "I'm not using any of the Heinz fortune to benefit my husband" Heinz Kerry.

Actually, I heard on CNN Politics Sunday this morning that there have been a great deal of 9/11 affected families (ie, people directly involved with losing loved ones -- not saying that this was not a nation's tragedy) and fire and police personnel are signing petitions that agree with Bush's use of the commercials.

I am NOT commenting one way or another on this (for right now) - I am simply letting you guys know what was on CNN this morning :)

Oh - I also saw the Campaign Managers from both Kerry & Bush's camps -- wow -- talk about tension :D

Guess the jig is up... from an e-mail a Masonic lodge brother sent me:

Source: http://texasrainmaker.blogspot.com/

Those who like sausage and politics should never, ever watch either one of 'em being made.

In a way, I feel guilty for saying this but since my opinion doesn't really amount to a hill of beans anyway I may as well just go ahead.

Yikes, here goes...

Don't flame me please...

Ok...

I find that, as a group, the families of the 9/11 victims are whiney and annoying. (ducks to avoid flame) That sounds awful, doesn't it. And, like I said, I feel kind of guilty for thinking this. But, it's just that they aren't the only people who lost loved ones in this country due to terrorism. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard that the government has compensated families of the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing or the families of the victims from the first time the WTC was bombed. As far as the WTC being a sacred site, there's just something about that that doesn't sit well with me. Sure, build a memorial there. That's totally appropriate. But...sacred??? It doesn't seem right to me.

I am not trying to play down what these poor people have suffered; it is easily one of the most horrendous events that has ever taken place in our country. And I realize that no amount of compensation could ever take the place of a lost loved one. However, as a group, they seem to have a voracious appetite for money and attention even they're not the only people who have ever lost loved ones to a hideous act of violence.

Sorry, I just had to get that out. And, like I said, I feel sort of guilty for thinking this way and if anyone feels differently I would love to hear what you think (since I would love an excuse to change my mind)


BTW, as far as the original intent of the thread, I think President Bush is justified in using the footage. I believe it belongs to *all* of us since the attacks were aimed at us as a country. And, as someone mentioned, Mr. Bush's response to those attacks was a defining moment in his first term. I think the gist of the commercial is if you think he did a good job in the aftermath, then vote for him and if you don't, vote for John Kerry.

*puts on her sunglasses*

I understand what youre saying, and heres a similar view:

Its not whininess or anything like that, its just that so many news outlets have made it a New York-exclusive tragedy that the people have been conditioned to feel as if its theirs and no one elses. As someone who actually did lose a family friend in the Oklahoma City bombing, I can relate the awful sense of helplessness and loss, but there were also no ads proclaiming 'we are all Oklahomans' immediately following. I can only guess the 'we are all New Yorkers' campaign was designed to make those who felt it was a far away event feel like it hit closer to home, and it backfired somewhat, making many New Yorkers feel less like Americans, and sectionalizing the tragedy.

Your immense penis envy for things Southern and especially Texas has nothign to do with this.

This is about politically motivated people using an emotional ploy to further their intentions. THAT dihonors the dead from 9-11 more than anything Bush could ever do. Yes, Bush is running them in political ads, but he was President then, and it's something he faced. By purporting yourself to be upset because of your loss of family, but the REAL reason you're doing it is to keep Bush from being re-elected is dishonest and shameful.

9-11 belongs to all of us. The same way that OKC belongs to all of us. Like Pearl Harbor belongs to all of us. The way Gettysburg belongs to all of us.

Bush has every right to show whatever images he wants from those days seeing as how when the towers fell, the majority of us were worried about our saftey, but he had the added burden of concern for safety of the rest of the nation.

My personal opinion of the man has changed since he was elected, i will admit that, but i find nothing wrong with him using those images.

Kitso
KS 361

Alright, so this was uncalled for.

KR - I agree with a lot of what you are saying, too. So many beautiful re-construction designs were rejected by 9/11 families, and we often hear "we can't do that b/c the 9/11 families don't like it" etc etc. My boyfriend's mother was killed by a car while she stood on a corner waiting for the light in the Bronx. While it was not a terrorist, it was no less sudden or unexpected. Nor are his feelings of loss any less. And as he says all the time "My mother died on that corner and I don't go petitioning that a garbage can or a mail box shouldn't be put there because it's sacred ground". Anyone who has suffered the loss of a loved one has every right to feel hurt and upset, but they don't have every right to dictate everything that happens as a result of that death.

On to the thread topic at hand - as I've said before, if Bush wanted to show himself at Ground Zero, or even shots of the wreckage with American flags - more power to him! But the shot of the firefighters bringing the dead body out - that;s just too much. And you can claim my opinion is "partisan politics" all you want - but you're wrong (in the case of MY personal opinion).

That corner is not your boyfriend's mother's final resting place. There is only one site in Ameican history, on American soil, that was both the object of a terrorist attack, and the final resting place of victims. That is the World Trade Center site, and it should be treated with the same respect as that afforded to Pearl Harbor.

Bleh. I don't like either candidate in this race.

Debates like this show what little substantial meaning political races have nowadays.

I haven't seen any ads so I can't judge them.

KillarneyRose, I think that you are mistaken about the first attack on the WTC in 1993. I think that the victims' families have been able to add their names to the list of people considered for financial compensation for their losses.

I wonder why you think that. Have you seen or read specific news accounts that resulted in this feeling? I'm not flaming you, but I am curious. I haven't seen anyone whining in any of the news accounts that I have seen. I have seen many people expressing their grief and voicing their concerns which seem legitimate to me. There were nearly 3,000 victims so I am sure that there are many different news stories that I haven't seen.


This is probably another topic, but I find it kind of interesting that people rarely mention the deaths in Pennsylvania and at the Pentagon on Sept. 11th.

You are absolutely right, Russell. However, Ground Zero is not the final resting place of all the people killed. And it's a huge plot of land that is badly in need of re-building to make this city what it once was. You're a NYer, you know that. And what about many of the Native American burial grounds that we have plowed over. That's ok b/c they weren't killed be terrorists (unless you consider us Europeans coming over here and taking over their lands a terrorist act - but that's a whole different thread!!!) or because the bodies were removed it's ok? Respect needed, absolutely! Walking on eggshells - no, sorry.

There is a difference between motives and history and I don't think you understand that.

Yes that would be an incredibly expensive area to just make into a memorial but at the same time, building there will NOT make this city into what it once was. People say that blindly. What was this city and what will that building bring?

And KillarneyRose, I only have a gripe to pick with certain firemen who chose to work overtime which boosted up their pensions incredibly at the site and then retired.

-Rudey

It doesn't matter if its not the final resting place of all who died there because it is still the final resting place of almost a thousand. Doing the wrong thing with Native American burial grounds 100 years ago has nothing to do with doing the right thing at Ground Zero today.

Personally I wouldn't offended by the ads, but I reacted to 9/11 differently than a lot of the population. And I can still see how those related to the victims would be upset with a shot of someone's dead body being taken away on a stretcher.

What I don't understand is why nobody who put out these ads questioned whether or not they would upset people. To me it seems like a huge red flag and they should have definitely questioned whether or not the footage was appropriate.

Also, despite the fact that "9/11 belongs to all Americans," you certainly experienced it a little differently if you were waiting by the phone for hours to see if your dad died in the attacks than if you sat vegging on the couch for days watching footage of the towers falling and candlelight vigils. Please don't try to argue differently because you just sound ignorant.

As for the protesters -- if those who were offended were Democrats, Bush doesn't have to worry because they wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

It does belong to ALL of us.

My dad's family is from Long Island. I have an Aunt that works a stone's throw from the WTC. I was certainly worried for her. BOTH of my parents at the time were Active Duty military officers stationed in a city with one of the largest military populations in the country, San Antonio. My dad's previous duty station was in fact, the Pentagon. Some of the military personal killed were MSC officers that worked the same office my father did. Its pretty damn traumatic to turn on the TV and see a building who's hallways you walked in a bunch to go see your dad at work blown apart. In the midst of my biggest adversarily feelings towards my father ever, i still almost cried when i called him on the phone to make sure he was ok. Because after that happened, military personnel all over the country were on High Alert.

A lot of us that don't live there, or are not from NYC have connections to people that were in the attacks or that were nearby the attacks. The terrorists were not targeting your father specifically, but Americans in general. Therefore, this was an attack on ALL Americans, not just those in NY. I don't think Osama was sittin in his cave, after his latest amorous romp with a dromedary, thinking, "i'm really pissed off at those New Yorkers, their city is dirty and their smug self-satisfaction at being from the Big Apple. I'm gonna attack them."

I think it sounds ignorant to try to tell Americans as a whole that 9-11 doesn't belong to them, just to the 3,000 or so who lost their lives and their families.

Kitso
KS 361

I'm sorry, but I think this is bullshit.

Yes, 9/11 was an attack on all-Americans.

However, if you didn't lose someone you loved in the attacks you DID NOT experience it the same way as someone who did. Ditto for someone who lost an acquaintance versus someone who lost a spouse of 25 years -- there are degrees of loss.

Your little ode to how you walked the halls of the Pentagon and thus that affected you only reinforces that point. Obviously New Yorkers were deeply affected by this because this was their HOME. Almost everyone I know in New York knew someone who died. There is a huge difference between seeing a part of the city you call your home being torn to pieces, having lived through that day in New York city, having to look at the altered skyline everyday, and going to funerals day after day vs. watching the news of a national tragedy on TV.

Imagine if this was your home, your friends that died, and the rest of the country trying to pretend that they were just as deeply affected by it as you were. (On an ideological level, sure. On an emotional level, no way in hell.) You'd be pissed off too.

Nowhere, in my post, did i say that it affected me as deeply as someone who lost a family member. What i did say is that lots of us felt connections to 9-11 and you have no right to tell us that it didnt' affect us at all. I didn't experience it AS MUCH as someone who lost a family member, but it still affrected me.

But it still belongs to ALL Americans. Whether the impact on that person is minimal or extreme, it belongs to us all. New Yorkers or those that lost family members can't claim sole ownership to the tragedy.

I'm not angry that NY was attacked. I'm angry that AMERICA was attacked. Yes, if they bombed Texas A&M or the Alamo, or downtown Dallas, that would affect me more personally than the WTC, but they would be attacking AMERICA. I would expect you or anyone else to be as equally pissed as me, if not because you knew somebody that died, but the fact that 3000 of your fellow AMERICANS died.

When Bonfire fell at A&M in 99 and we lost 12 Aggies, the outpouring of support from across the country was certainly welcome. When a NW university dismantled their Ice Arch in tribute to our Fallen Aggies, i wasn't pissed that they were trying to horn in on our suffering, i was grateful that they were empathizing with our loss. When our bitter rivals, the longhorns cancelled their Hex Rally and instead had a Unity Rally in Austin and invited us to attend, i wasn't pissed that they were trying to claim our tragedy too. They were saddened by the loss of fellow young people and Texans. If anything, that single incident brought Aggies and Longhorns closer and defined our rivalry more.

ETA: So it pissed you off when all of America was wearing I <3 NY shirts? By being standoffish about this, and claiming that its YOUR tragedy over everyone elses you are perpetuating the attitude of NYers that most of the rest of the Country doens't like. We were able to put our Texan egos aside after Bonfire.

Like i said, its pretty damn naive of you, or anyone, to tell an American that they can't claim any part of 9-11.

Kitso
KS 361