Have you ever been CHALLENGED?
 

I saw this posted in another forum and I rthought it would be a interesting conversation,


To all greeks,
Have you ever been challenged by a member of you sorority/fraternity to prove that your real member or not?

Have you ever witnesed your sorors/frat/a perp being made to remove a XYZ shirt, letters, etc. she/he was wearing...


Is this widespread? Have you ever been challenged? If so, how did you react? Have you ever "challenged" someone? Why?

to all non-greeks,

Have you witnessed someone being challenged? what did you think of it?

I thought it would be good conversation.

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In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

[This message has been edited by Diva_56 (edited November 06, 2000).]

I seen ladies challenge other ladies in sororities and letters get ripped right off the chest! it was truly embarassing to witness. The lesson here is to not perp!!! then you won't be embarassed in public! I saw a lady of XYZ sorority ask her "soror" which one of their founders went to law school, which founder had the most degrees? Really ridiculous questions that anyone could not answer under that extreme pressure. They basically surrounded her and when she didn't respond correctly (She was obviously nervous) they asked her to remove her para. There was another grad member there that had to vouch for her in order to avoid what was going to happen. It turns out that she was a neo and just crossed. Hey just a story...

[This message has been edited by searching (edited November 06, 2000).]

Folks who assault others should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Period. Being a member of a sorority or fraternity doesn't exempt you from obeying the laws of the land, and anyone who stands idly by and witnesses such assault without doing anything is just as morally bankrupt as the folks committing the crime, IMHO.

I don't challange often and I do challange but remeber the point of a challange is to confirm if someone is a member or not. IF someone is not a member they expose themselves to many things one of them being legal. Anyone who wears para of an organizaiton and is not a member could be and can be subjected to being sued by that organization for defimation and illegal use of a copywritten symbol (i.e. our Greek Letters). Now most of us don't think like that our immediate reaction is to remove that piece of item (as any good business person would) from thier being. That should not be done with the intent to hurt the other person but to claim property that should not be in their possesion. Now when I get challanged I make sure that the other person is a Bro as well. You can never be too safe http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif.

Finally the Sphinxpoet has come back to Greek Chat!

Sphinxpoet

Just a story,
In DC, a friend of mine was telling me that she walked past this club. There were police everywhere and an ambulance was on the scene. After asking the onlookers what happened, she found out that there was a huge fight in the club where several men commenced to severely beat another man. Turns out that the injured man had been seen throwing up the sign of Omega Psi Phi(sorry don't know what it's called) and there were brothers of that frat in the club. They questioned him and found that he was a perp. To me, excessive force wasn't necessary but I'm not in an org and can't say what it must feel like to have it disrespected in such a way. I'm sure that man will think twice about being a perp.

As members you should not wear letters unless you are prepared to be challanged.....and what comes with that! My Dean said that to me. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

And you shouldn't beat another human being up over your letters...unless you're prepared to deal with "what comes with that"!

How is beating someone up over letters any different than gang bangers fighting over signs and colors? Is that what we are now? And we wonder why we're being called obsolete and being sued out of existence...

[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited November 07, 2000).]

Discogoddess

Agreed, no one should be beaten just like there should be no crime but the fact of the matter is these things happen. I have never fought with anyone over letters but it is a real issue that greeks have as far as acting like a gang sometimes.

Sphinxpoet

Diva, are you one of my many LITTLE SISTERS IN GREEKDOM?

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

I was just curious... If you are, cool...then I am cooler than a fan http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited November 07, 2000).]

First let me state that I am not a member of any organization. I understand that members do value their letters and their particular organization is very impoortant to them. However, I have witnessed perps get bussed out as well as real members who just don't know the answer to a particular question. (like the neo mentioned in an earlier post).

What I want to know is who is to blame in the case of a real member not knowing something. Is it really fair to be angry at that person? After all aren't they supposed to learn things during their process and if they don't know something it's obvious that they weren't taught.

In my quest for information I was told by a member of the org. I'm interested in that I need to know info on the national site just to have background knowledge and a basic understanding, but anything else I would be taught.

Sorry for being so long winded, but I just want to know who's to blame.

Yes I am... Just a striving sisterfriend.

if there's one thing i hate its a perp. but i dare someone take the letters off of my shirt or jacket etc. that i paid for because i didn't answer to their liking. unless you have a reciept for the clothing they are wearing then you need to keep your hands off. we are not gang members. if you realize they are perping then ask them to show some respect if they will not then keep on going its not worth losing your house over.

Interested-cinna....I understand what you are saying...I am not a member of any BGLO or any GLO, but....I do think wearing a school's logo is a lot different than wearing a GLO logo.

First, GLOs have certain rituals which are MEMBERS ONLY info..which means all it encompasses are MEMBERS ONLY PRIVILEDGES.

There are certain things these members must go through, firstly being selected to become a member.

I am in NO WAY TRYING TO START A FIGHT http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif but there is a difference.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by my post. If so, please accept my apologies.

This topic is sort of difficult to explain if you are not Greek. There is a certain level of community that the Greeks share and we have a bond that not compared to most non-faternal groups. That is why the topic can get hot and heavy. School letters are a totally diffrent subject in my mind.

If ya Smell what the Sphinxpoet is Cooking

But what are the repercusions for an individual who totes a school logo of a particular university and is not or was not a student there.

I haven't heard of an individual being accosted over that matter.

The best way to prove that you are a real Soror is to show your financial card with picture I.D.

Cinna:
I am slightly offended that you would compare someone wearing a NYU t-shirt to a perp wearing my beloved letters. There is more that meets the Eye. Those that are not members really don't know what our letters stand for or the proper protocol that is used when wearing them.

[This message has been edited by Anydaynow (edited November 09, 2000).]

Okay, I know I'm going to offend some of my sorors and fellow greeks, but:

You have no right to physically intimidate or strike, verbally harass or otherwise humilate someone because they don't answer your questions fast enough or grip you up properly. That is the dumbest isht I have ever heard, and I have been a soror since May 11, 1990. If I see someone engaging in that kind of behavior, I will report it...it's people like this that make the rest of us, who are actually trying to do something positive, look like jack asses.

A perp will never understand the sisterhood and what its signs and symbols mean, nor will she ever know the joys and pains specific to AKA, so I am not concerned about her "taking" something of mine. She can't take what she hasn't been given.

Besides, why would I belittle or beat down another woman? I was not made that way, either as a human being, young woman, Ivy or soror. If a perp does cross my path, I won't lie, I will be heated, but there are ways to get things done without resorting to violence. Those of you who do or think that it's okay seem weak and poorly made into your organizations, IMO.

Yall know I don't usually come out my face on this board but I have to say that southernbelle you made a very ignorant comment, especially for a person looking in or trying to look in. Who are you to say whose fault it is? The unknowing Soror's process may be to 'SOME' blame, but I won't even go there. My Sorority has so much history a pledge process could not cover this, unless you plan to be on line for 90+ years. Anyhow there are senior Sorors that have been members for 50+ years that are still learning. You grow and learn in AKA, nothing is given to you.

And on this whole challenging bit, I am with Soror PositivelyAKA, I dare the next women to test me ... feel free to try and check me, but, and I say this in my G-Ma's native tongue, if ya lay ya 'and on me - sheeeet, we be fighten!!!

Challenging is a tricky thing. While a fresh neo I learned of standard challenges that bruhs are subjected to. But traveling and encountering bruhs from other places I've been introduced to a myriad of challenges. You learn as you grow.

Just a sidenote:There was a guy who was on a yard claiming XYZ Fraternity. They found out he was not "real". The brothers of the chapter proceeded grab the young man, take him to one of their houses and use an iron to burn his brand off.

Not to be violent, but what'z up with perps CHALLENGIN' somebody? Yah, know, I just am too old to think about challengin' somebody on they stuff. Hell, if theys workin' in a chapter and settin' off, they outta make em an honorary!

Eh, I agree with my Soror Discogoddess. I wish somebody would think they could challenge me...

As a new member of this sorority we had a discussion and warning about challenges. I can honestly say that I can not imagine any soror laying a finger on me and my clothes. I think like it was said previously a financial card with a picture I.D., is the only challenge you need.

[This message has been edited by Wonderful1908 (edited November 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Wonderful1908 (edited November 11, 2000).]

Okay, this is why I choose to stay a silent in most cases because someone always takes something the wrong way.

I was not trying to say anyone is the blame, I was asking how can you be mad at someone if they don't know something. I understand that there is a continuing learning process. I understand that your sorority's history is extensive and there is a great deal of information to learn.

I chose to post on this topic b/c I think challenges are stupid especially when they result in violence. I have seen real members of a sorority get beat down b/c they couldn't answer a question someone asked them. I have seen chapters get into fights b/c they feel that they know more history than another one or b/c their process was this and someone else's process was that. I think it's silly. So, no I was not trying to offend anyone or point the finger of blame, I was simply asking a question b/c of the things I have observed.

Feel free to e-mail me if you still think I'm being ignorant, b/c maybe we're not on the same page.

so as a neo what r we to do if we find ourselves in this type of situation... should we walk away.... (scream for help) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif
or do we say i do not have to answer that and walk off, b/c as i have been told some of the peps from the old school have been pledged and r "real" and then u have peps who r non-pledged "paper" .. so since the ones who were pledge shoot even the old school non-pledged, might or might not have more info will challenge someone who is not as knoweable about stuff, like us neo's ... what should we do ... as i have heard of similiar horror stories...

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

Soror, can you discuss this with a Soror privately???

[This message has been edited by AKA4MJ (edited May 29, 2001).]

i have sent u an email....thanks for the tip soror....

Today, with so many perps, I think if you earned your membership, you wouldn't have a problem with being challenged because YOU KNOW your stuff, and expect all others to know their's.
I think it's smart to challenge people playin' your letters/colors.

Ditto -- discuss in private!

Right on Frat! Even more crazy is the number of people who claim to be AKA's that I have met that are not! What to do about those..... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif When I ran into my first AKA perp I informed her to let that activity go becuase it could be hazardous to her health! And it proved to be http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif

First of all, hi to all Sorors, Frat, and sisterfriends, I actually agree with a lot of different views on this subject because, sadly so, perps do exist. I do believe that since I have earned my letters and am a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc., I should not be stripped of my letters because I do not “prove” myself to someone else. In fact, before I disclose the information of my organization, I would want to make sure that person is a member. In some instances, and on the other hand, it has its place. I encountered a young lady I had to “challenge” because she could not even answer where she crossed, she got caught.

Well said, Discogoddess!

If I catch ANY Greeks beating down on someone, perp or not, I will give a 911 call and help to have all parties involved prosecuted. Yes, I have done that before, and will do it again if needed (dag the police showed up fast too). If Greeks want to behave as gangs, they should be treated as gangs and go where gangs go, UNDER the jail. Greeks are supposed to be leaders and have a sense of diplomacy.

A TWIST: (Devil's advocate)
what about Sorors/frats, members with the 25+ year status?
do you expect them to remember EVERYTHING?

Ya know some are at that Ginko, Geritol, Herbal regimen stage!

I would never challange someone that old in the Frat! They got something to teach me but I would not be in a hurry to GRIP him!

The Sphinxpoet

colors? how is that perping? are you stating that if you aren't a member of a sorority or fraternity that you should not where the colors of sororities and fraternities? because that would exclude even basic black...not even considering the major colors of the color wheel and a variation of those colors...and considering that some individuals lack the ability to distinguish between their organizations OFFICIAL colors...and what just happens to be close to that...and deemed innapropriate by some psychotic assessment of appropriateness...it boggles the mind that you would even attempt to throw colors in the perping pot http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif i suppose that because i look good in pink and wear it on occasion that i am perping as an aka...as we speak i have on a pink top, pink skirt, and yes...pink sandles...head to toe...not salmon pink...hot pink...where do you draw the line...you are itching for suits up the yinyang by doing that even if you think you are justified... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif before i left for college my grandmother gave me a pearl ring and i have worn it all of a hand full of times and once or twice to class out of RESPECT for the fact that some members wear pearls...like letters...as evidence of their membership and not to cause any confusion...where does it end...what does a color have to do with what your organization stands for? and why would you so blatantly tarnish the image of your organization to keep someone else from "tarnishing" that image...which one does more harm ultimately? the perp who could be easily taken to the side or a private area and "consulted" about their need to immediately remove the articles...or YOUR dehumanizing act? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif



[This message has been edited by SableCherub (edited June 01, 2001).]

Original Ape spoke of letters and colors. Not just the colors a person is wearing. I understood his statement to mean a person is blatantly displaying the letters and colors without having earned them as a member of a BGLO. How many people wear colors like pink and green together or purple and gold aside from members of the org. Exceptions can be made for people who are hopelessly fashion deprived. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif By no means does this mean don't wear these colors at all but they do have a great significance to the people who have worked and continue to work hard in their honor. Now if the person just happens to be wearing a pink and green outfit and happens to have an AKA bag or some sort of para, that could be problematic if this person is not a member. Since we are both peeking over the fence along with other sisterfriends, it's hard to understand exactly how much love these women and men have for their organizations. Therefore, if displaying colors and letters inappropriately is cause for alarm in their community, I'm gonna back off from the subject.

I'm not getting in trouble today. Yall, it's pay day. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

that's why it's a free country...do your thang sisterfriend...and i'll do mine...pink and all...but i do understand where YOU are coming from... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Agreed 100%. Also, it is a matter of respect. Respect for an organization that someone has worked hard for. I know no one has a legal hold on the colors of their organization and all but we know which colors represent which organization and to wear pink and green together, knowing you are not an AKA is WRONG. I know red and white are common colors to put together but I would not feel right wearing the two of them together either, i.e. red shirt and white shorts.

crimson and creme... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Wearing red and white (I would even venture to say even pink and green or any other combo) is cool, whatever floats your boat.

However, if I see a woman, particularly a sista, wearing red/white or crimson/creme and rocking elephants, ducks or pyramids, or even making a sound similar to ooo-oop, SHE BETTER BE MY SOROR!!

However, I think Original Ape's comment was taken out of context. As stated in a previous thread here in the AKA forum, noone 'owns' any color combo so no need to get your panties in a bunch http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif

BTW, paraphernalia does not always have to be in the 'official' colors. Each org has their own protocol and may allow common shades of their colors to be used in some instances.



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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

I also think Original Ape's comment was taken out of context. Colors are not copyrighted. However, my pet peeve is when a person attends an event, activity, party, etc. hosted by greeks (or NPHC), and they wear colors associated with NPHC organizations, esp. in combination. Before I became a member, I wouldn't DARE wear a strikingly pink top!

My sorors and I were at an Omega event before school let out. I was rushing from work, and class, so I simply wore a pink shirt because, well...who else would wear pink besides me and my sorors?? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

Low, and behold, a young lady was there who was not an AKA, wearing a pink shirt. Now, don't get me wrong. Anyone can wear whatever they want, but why would you wear *pink* to a GREEK event, if you're not an AKA??? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

Maybe because I am a neo, I am overly precautious of being discret http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif, but I didn't feel that was appropriate.

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"I am not yet the author of my life; I am still it's unenlightened protagonist"
---Unknown

[This message has been edited by jali0004 (edited June 01, 2001).]