Changed the Name
 

How do you feel about people who change the name of the fraternity? I ran across a bothers' website and it said Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity and Sorority!!! :mad: I was floored. They obviously changed the name at the National Convention yesterday and I must have missed the memo * I really hope everyone caught the sarcasm...* But seriously, how do you feel about this, because I know I don't like it...
And this is not the first time I have seen the name of the fraternity changed to say something else.

Going back to the guys' page,he said that Frank Reed Horton was involved with scouting when he was a boy. Please correct me if I am wrong, and I could very well be, but I thought that Frank Reed Horton was introduced to scouting in Nov. 1923 at the American Legion Armistice Ball. This is where he met Herbert Horton. At this time Frank was 27, Herbert 37. It was Herbert Horton and Everett Probst that taught him about scouting. He became a scoutmaster and and a scouter. Now if this is true, then I would not consider 27 to be a boy. I said all of that to say this...is it appropiate to put this type of information out. I realize that our fraternity is not meant to be a "secret society"; however, when you put things out that are not correct, people misconstrue who we are. As I already stated, I could be wrong in my research, so could I get some feedback on this?

Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity and Sorority????

No. No. NO. That is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive seen it refered to that before. But in no way do I agree with it. As always, yall know I see ALpha Phi Omega as a fraternity. Nothing more, nothing less. Hmmph.

Strawter :cool:

Fraternity & Sorority is correct if the website is for our brothers and sisters in the Philippines.

Give us the URL...

Randy

I'll have to look and see if i can find it. i was just browsing when i found it. i think he was from the phillipines, but i think he said his chapter was in the us??? i dont know. i emailed him so if he replies then i will get the url.

my other concern wasn't address about Frank Reed Horton scouting as a boy, was that true?

Randy - why is it different in the Philippines? Do they require it to be that way or is it just to make it easier to understand?

Re: Changed the Name
 

You're not wrong.

If anyone would read either the Pledge Manual &/or "In the Begining" where FRH gives the history of his establishing APO, they will learn what you stated: that he first got involved in scouting when he met Herbert G Horton. He became a scouting commissioner and involved as a camp director, and later became a scoutmaster. After graduation, he was a professional scouter for many years before moving on to other careers. (never heard a date associated with his meeting of Herbert. your source for this?)

The Pledge Manual is on-line at the National website, so there is little excuse for such misinformation.

Other misinformation about APO I've heard (and had to correct):

All the Founders were Eagle Scouts. (no. as we've pointed out, some were not even scouts.)

Being an Eagle Scout was a requirements to join APO. (no. until 1967, ANY past involvement in scouting was all that was needed).

However, I know that at least one chapter in the 60's had a requirement for someone to be an Eagle. My father-in-law was not APO in school, b/c he only made it to First Class - b/c he couldn't pass Morse Code to get that badge to begin the process toward Eagle.

Yes, that is true and happened many times throught our history. Several chapters were started when groups of Eagle Scouts got together to form an "eagle scout fraternity", contacted the BSA National Office and were told about APO. (Delta is a good example of this)

In reading thru my collection of T&T, several times the National org had to emphasis that NO restrictions be placed on the scouting level of potential members. Several chapters wanted to restrict membership to just Eagle Scouts or the like and the BOD didn't want that. I guess some chapters got away with it.

Its the way that they developed. They had several Alpha Phi Omega Auxiliary Sorority chapters before they became equal. Best history is on the APO-Phil website at http://www.apo.org.ph/?page=articles...a9f69b22496cbc

Great Article.

The funny thing is that its come in some ways full circle. There is a fraternity that was made for Eagle Scouts. Check out www.epsilontaupi.org . It has its Alpha Chapter at U of Dayton and has a colony at Ohio State University. It was started in early 2000. Not officially recognized by BSA.

There is also a group called simply Eagle Scout Fraternity at SUNY-Maritime.

YiLFS
Randy

Re: Re: Changed the Name
 

Actually, what I've *never* gotten an answer to was whether Cub Scouting experience qualified a brother. One of the reasons that the Scouting requirement was dropped by Con-Con was that some chapters were willing to fulfill the scouting requirement for any man who wanted to pledge by registering them as part of the "College Scouting Reserve" or simply as a Merit Badge Representative (for an easy badge like Basketry or Leatherwork). This only cost an additional $5 and was simply added on to the fees that the pledge paid at initiation. (or at pledging if the chapter was particularly organized. )

Bill Clinton had *zero* experience at a Boy Scout. He was however a Cub Scout.

Randy

Re: Re: Re: Changed the Name
 

My impression from my one copy of pre-1967 bylaws was the requirement was open to interpretation. It mearly said the candidate must have had current/prior scouting involvement, with ANY recognized scout association, which would allow for foreign students who had been involved in Scouting in their home country to join APO.

Uncertain if the National Board put down any thing about how it should be intepreted, beyond some things I've seen in old T&T that chapters shouldn't restrict membership to just Eagle Scouts.

Since Cub Scouts are part of the scouting movement, its reasonable to expect a chapter to accept a former cub scout.

Ok I read the article. I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. APO Phil had a lot of women helping them, so they decided to start their own sororities, but then they started apo sorority and offered affliate memebership to women. Then allowed women to have full memebership in apo sorority??? Am I getting this right? So the men are apo fraternity and the women are apo sorority? Are they both co-ed? Like would you have a woman in apo fraternity and a man in apo sorority? I know these probably sound crazy, but I really want to understand.

As I understand it, APO-Phil as an organization is co-ed. However, the men are in fraternity chapters and the women in sorority chapters. At the same school you would have an APO Fraternity Chapter and an APO Sorority Chapter with the same chapter designation. So the individual chapters are NOT co-ed, but the overall organization is because both the Fraternity & Sorority chapters are part of the same org.

I would also like to add that their alumni associations are coed. No female associations/male associations. As far as I've seen, men and women serve in the same alumni associations, coed leadership and all.

Attractive, you've also got to understand Filipino culture a little more....try to do some research into Filipino Greek life. It is very different from over here.

Can you have same sex alumni associations here?

ummmm......I dunno. I suppose if the chapter is all male, then the chapter's alumni association would be all male. Like Kappa Delta.

But I dunno otherwise.

If not mistaken, alumni associations can be made up anyway you want, as long as all members were initiated through an undergrad chapter....at least, thats what I've been told.

Strawter:)

My understanding is its not quite that way with APO-Phil. With APO USA, alumni can form themselves into chapter or area based assocations. With APO-Phil, there is only ONE Alumni association permited per state. So ALL the alumni in the state would be a member of that one association.

If I am in error, please correct me.

Do you mean one APO-Phils Alumni Associaion per US State or Filipino State?

(For Brothers who might not know, there are Alumni Associations for APO Philippines in the United States.)

Per US State.

I was under the impression that alumni associations could either be chapter based or location based. Meaning if Psi Phi wanted to create an alumni association all brothers who were initiated through Psi Phi could be in it. These associations are to keep in contact, reunions, etc. The location associations would be if you were initiatated in undergrad and you reside in the Nashville area, then we are all here together so we can do service together etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but this information came directly from Region IV conference when I went in Dec.

Yes, you are correct. APO allows for both chapter-based or location based. This is all covered in the "How to start an alumni association" booklet on-line at the National website.

Also, please realize that advisors and honorarys can also be alumni and join alumni associations, in addition to those who pledge or founded chapters as petitioners.

So this being said, you can not start an alumni association that is single sex unless you are doing a chapter based inititive and you came from an all male chapter *like kappa delta*

I would like to ask everyone to bear with me. I am trying to find out more about the fraternity and what is right and what is wrong. I know all of this info is somewhere *bylaws, articles of association, guidelines* but I haven't had time to read and study everything. I'm trying to learn as I go.

Don't know. I've seen nothing that said you can't have a single sex alumni association that wasn't chapter-based.

If this was not allowed, then there would be an issue with the various 'men of the rising sun' alumni associations. Since the Fraternity has allowed them to be formed and has recognized several as official associations...

Now, everyone who is a member of recognized alumni associations must be on record as APO Brothers. With the alumni association I am an officer for, we check everyone who applies for membership. We have had issues were some have claimed to be brothers and there was no record of them...

Is this new

Nope. National Bylaws.

Article XII, section 2
(3) Membership in an Alpha Phi Omega Alumni Association shall be granted only to persons who are
duly registered in the National Office as former active, advisory, or honorary Members of a Chapter.

i know this thread was posted years ago but i would just like to enlighten my brothers in the USA why Alpha Phi Omega Philippines is named both a fraternity and sorority.

APO philippines initially started as a fraternity. A lot of women helped the fraternity and they were organized into auxillary sorority chapters. upon the approval of admission of women into AphiO, the "auxillary" was later dropped.

Alpha Phi Omega Philippines is co-ed. The fraternity and sorority are not separate organizations. Each school has one chapter with a designated chapter name. A chapter may be composed of males and females. All the males in APO-Phils are the "fraternity" while the females are the "sorority". In other words, the term "fraternity" refers to the male members while "sorority" refers to the female members. But in the end, we are still one: Alpha Phi Omega Philippines.

Functionally, are the women and men ever separated in APO-Phils?

Since the admission of women into APO until the early 90's, the fraternity and sorority had specific jurisdictions in the chapter especially in the handling of pledges. Only the fraternity can handle male pledges and only the sorority can handle female pledges. However, both groups coordinate in the leadership training, fellowships and service projects.

Today, that segregation is gone. The fraternity and sorority share common jurisdiction in the chapter and both parties are involved in all the activities of the either the fraternity or the sorority.

At the national level however, there are specific officers for the fraternity affairs and the sorority affairs though the officer usually are involved with each other's tasks.

Segregation is not at all an issue in APO-Phils. The fraternity and sorority are considered equal in all functions.

Thank you for the enlightenment. :)

I met the Director of Sorority Affairs at our national convention this summer.

Nope. Greater Los Angeles and Northern California have separate AA's (as does Las Vegas for example). See
http://apoacna.net/acnaware/modules....showpage&pid=6

[QUOTE=Senusret I;1430521]Thank you for the enlightenment. :)

You are very welcome brother!
:)

In terms of non-segregation, are the following things true in APO-Phil today?

1) Sisters as well as Brothers vote on the admittance of male pledges (and vice versa)
2) Brothers (as well as sisters) vote on the Director of Sorority Affairs (and B & S both vote on Director of Fraternity Affairs)
3) Formation of a chapter of Alpha Phi Omega - Philippines requires a certain number of students without regards to gender, or conversely, do they require a certain number of men to start a fraternity chapter and a certain number of women to start a sorority chapter.
4) Are there schools with *only* fraternity or *only* sorority chapters?
5) Can a fraternity chapter be declared inactive (for hazing or other reasons) and still have a sorority chapter there?
(If there is no such thing as a separate fraternity and sorority chapters anymore then the answers to 4 and 5 are no).

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

in reply to your questions brother:

1. Yes, brothers and sisters of a chapter are able to vote on the admittance of both male and female pledges.

2.Yes, brothers and sisters are able to vote for both directors of fraternity and sorority affairs. The elections are done during national conventions but only chapters with recognized fraternities and sororities may have brothers and sisters that can vote. (i think a chapter may send 4 voting delegates: 2 brothers and 2 sisters)

To expound on this would also answer your third question: A chapter needs to have a minimum of 15 initiated members (regardless of gender) to be chartered.

Once chartered, a chapter's fraternity needs a minimum of 15 active brothers to be recognized. (Same requirement for a chapter's sorority)

Should a brother attend a national convention yet his chapter fraternity is not recognized (because of lack of brothers) yet the sorority is recognized because there are more sisters, he would not be able to vote. Only the sisters of his chapter would be able to vote. But if both the chapter fraternity and sorority are recognized, brothers and sisters of that chapter may vote.

4. I think there are schools with chapters composed only of a fraternity or sorority because the school is an all-male or all-female school. However, such chapters may welcome students (regardless of gender) from other schools without existing chapters who want to pledge. The existing chapters "adopt" these pledges to be able to initiate enough members to have a new chapter started at a different school.

For example, Chapter X has a fraternity but no sorority (because the school is all-male) may have female members in their rosters (females from another school without a chapter who have pledged and have been initiated in Chapter X)

Only if the females of Chapter X reach the minimum number is the all-male school chapter's sorority recognized.

These sisters of Chapter X may then start their own chapter in their own school.

5.Today, a chapter's fraternity and sorority (recognized or unrecognized) share equal power and responsibility in the chapter. The chapter is recognized as one unit. All members of a chapter, regardless of gender are recognized as one. it's very unlikely that a only a chapter's fraternity (or sorority) would be suspended. It would be the entire chapter that would be suspended.






:) :) :)

OK, so a school with 20 brothers and 20 sisters is in better shape than one with 14 brothers and 100 sisters (or vice versa).

However a chapter with the 14 brothers and 100 sisters would be able to pledge both men and women and thus bring the fraternity back up to large enough to have recognition, right?


APO-USA had the concept of extension membership for some time in the 1990s, but it really didn't work that well (The reasons vary depending on who you ask)

Randy

i think a school with 20 brothers and sisters and a school with 14 brothers and 100 sisters (or vice versa) are both in good shape. i even think the school with 100 sisters and 14 brothers (or vice versa) is in even better shape than a school with only 40 brothers and sisters in terms of chapter strength. The only drawback to not meeting the minimum number for a chapter's fraternity or sorority recognition is not being able to send voting delegates to represent a chapter's fraternity or sorority. From my point of view, it's more important to have more members regardless of gender than just meeting a voting requirement.

Yes, a chapter who lacks a number of brothers or sisters may both pledge men and women to meet the requirements for recognition and thus be granted voting privileges.


Can you expound more on APO-USA's concept of extension membership?

Extension Membership was defined in our National Bylaws thru most of the 1990s, until it was removed.

Basically, a chapter was allowed to pledge up to 5 people who were students at a nearby school that did not have a chapter. The idea was that once 5 students at the nearby school were now Brothers, they would then 'jump start' a chapter at their school, taking it thru the chartering process. As there would be a core group of APO Brothers leading this, it was expected that stronger chapters could be quickly established (vs most chartering efforts, which would be composed of no APO Brothers).


This apparently only worked in one area of the country. As it either didn't work or wasn't used elsewhere, many didn't see the need/value of this, and it was gotten rid of, despite the efforts of some in the area it did work.