when sororities are dissing each other during rush
 

I decided to post this question in the rush forum because it is kind of sort of a rush question, it deals with rush. Moderators please feel free to move it if necessary. :)

Okay here is the situation. My chapter of initiation is presently struggling with numbers. Anyway, I have just discovered that they might not be participating in fall rush because of their numbers. I have contacted the recruitment director for my province and was told one of the problems that occured last fall was that when the PNM's were visiting the other houses on campus the other housings were completely badmouthing this chapter.

I find this completely and utterly disrespectful in the first place but to do it during formal recruitment that is beyond low. What is worse is that Panhell didn't really seem to care (all this is from the chat I had with the recruitment director).

Here is my question, since I am more than determined to help with fall rush how do we make sure the other chapters aren't talking crap and if they are how they get punished for it? It is totally NOT COOL for panhell to sit aside and allow it to happen.

I would love to hear any advice you all can give me on this very sticky situation.

Brianna

Re: when sororities are dissing each other during rush
 

why punish them? confront them about it.

I'm not in a huge search mode, but I seem to remember at least two threads that claimed this happened during fall recruitment. It seems to happen most when one desperate sorority says that XYZ is doing badly and going off campus the next year. Very thirdgrader stuff!

In all honesty, the more I became involved with Panhellenic Council, the more I loved my GLO! I wish more women thought panhellenically!

but what does confronting them do if they still continue with their elementary school behavior? Nothing. Because from what I have been told, they were confronted, yet they continued to do it. And what does it matter, the damage has been done. If the sororities at this school are this shallow what makes anyone think that they won't talk crap again this fall?
Brianna

It's a very frustrating situation, I know, but honestly I think there is very little you can do about it. The only thing we can "control" is what happens at our own recruitment parties. (For that matter, we really can't even completely control what individual members say.)

Anyway, the only thing I would try would be to appeal to the alumnae advisors and/or the presidents of the NPC groups. Have someone like the Greek Advisor stress that the women of each group should be saying positives about their group & nothing negative about others.

I'd like to put my two cents in since I happen to be in a chapter at the school where ASUADPi was initiated. I never heard anything about other chapters saying bad things, certainly not mine.
ADPi has been doing poorly here for some time, they were way below total when I was a freshman going through formall recruitment in 2000. At a school with a competitive greek system it's not possible to succeed when your numbers dip as low as theirs have.
They have had many people drop and having known some of these women it's not the other sororities that are doing the bad mouthing if you catch my drift.
In short stop blaming this on the other sororities because it is not our fault that your chapter is failing.

Ooooookay.

I know it is frustrating if you hear rumors that other groups are bad-mouthing you. Honestly, even if it is happening it probably isn't making that big a difference in your return rates. Smaller groups are going to struggle during formal rush. The PNMs can see that the group is smaller and come to their own conclusion that something must be wrong. It's a perception, but as we know...perception=reality.

This being said -- I think the most damaging thing can be to the self-image of the sorority when they hear that negative things are being said. It's a feeling of total frustration -- it makes them feel powerless. I would definitely not pass along these rumors to the group and I would try to difuse any announcements that are made regarding what the other groups are doing/saying.

I'm not going to pretend that I know about this chapter or campus in particular, but I've seen & heard of it at others. There are so many subtle ways of "deep-sixing" a struggling chapter, and we all know it.

I can name two chapters at my school who each came back for fall recruitment with SIX members each (different years). With Panhellenic help, and their own National Organization's help, both chapters are doing just fine.

Whether or not this is happening at ASU (is that the school?), the Panhellenic Council there and on every campus needs to stress the need to rush on two levels: the sorority and the panhellenic. When one chapter goes down, it doesn't build up the other sororities on campus, it brings the whole system down.

This past year, we did a WONDERFUL job in not posting any "rush plugs" during Recruitment, and for the most part, were terribly panhellenic. Let's not spoil it now!

How Panhellenic of you, not saying anything bad about their chapter. :rolleyes:

I think Panhell needs to address this issue ASAP and if there is proof a sorority is exhibiting such an attitude, they should get a rush infraction. In addition, I think that perhaps you should contact the Greek Life directors at several of the schools that have Panhellenics that have helped other groups succeed (I can't think of the names offhand, but they've been mentioned on here) and ask them how they go about it, then make suggestions to the Greek Life director at your school about what they did and how your school could do this.

wow do all of the other chapters on campus have as good and helpful an attitude as you do ?? I'm sure that helps out the ADpi's there.... :rolleyes: while it may not be the other chapter's fault you could at least have a bit better attitude about it... I mean she came here to ask for help because she loves her GLO and initiation chapter and wants to see it thrive... not to be told "ohhh too bad you suck... ".....

It is my understanding that Panhellenic and the other groups on campus have been doing a considerable amount to try to help the struggling chapters at ASU. They even implemented the ice water round last year (or has it been two years now) to try to make all the chapters look the same size in the first round.

From what I know of the GA and the Panhellenic counsel they would have given major rush infractions if they had known this was going on. Why don't you call the advisors for your chapter and try to find out if their perceptions are the same as your provence rush persons? Have you offered to serve on the advisory board? Do you guys have a Panhellenic Advisor? The best way to help a struggling chapter is to have advisors who care -- and it sounds like you do. Get involved, find out what is going on and work with the other advisors and international volunteers to create solutions.

Good luck!

If true at ASU, how sad. LXA just pull the Charter recently and was always sad to lose any Chapter from nay GLO!

Right now, My Chapter is having major membership problems when 3 years ago, we were one of the largest on campus.

Some are so narrow minded, they dont realize, you do not stay on top or near it for ever. All comes to pass sooner than later and it is a crushing blow. SigEp just had their House cleaned out and were left with 3 Active and 1 Associate member. Dont ask why as I do not know.

If there were more interaction at the campi, as there is on GC then the whole system would grow stronger for all! :) But sadly this doesnt happen that often!:(

Membership Greed is what I call it!

I can totally sympathize, my chapter was not doing well a few years ago. There were other chapters on campus that had members that were badmouthing us. but overall the other groups were really supportive. There are always going to be people in other groups that talk smack, about your group, and there is nothing you can do make them stop.
But you can do lots of things to make you group better. You girls can work on sisterhood, nothing is better than a strong sisterhood. and smaller groups can become even closer. you can make sure that you have a showing of sisters at campus events, parties, etc. Basically bust your butt with great PR.
Also, I can not stress enough, do not talk negatively in PUBLIC about your chapter, any other chapter or the greek system. People are always listening... I can't tell you how many things I have over heard!
If you work hard your chapter will be back on top soon. our chapter is at total, We have an awesome new member class.
Good luck

First off, we're not talking about ASU. Second off the problem is not with panhellenic not helping, becuase my chapter used to be struggling and they stood by us plenty. It's gotten to the point where they have had bad rush after bad rush and they're at the point where there really isn't anything you can do for them.
Thirdly I'd probably be a little nicer if their girls weren't such bitches, some of the most unfriendly woman I have ever met are in this chapter. They're big time shit talkers and so they shouldn't be surprised if people talk back.
Finally I'd like to reiterate that I have never heard of anyone saying bad things about them during recruitment and both me and my best friend were recruitment counselors (different years too), this seems to be a unfounded rumor.

And with an attitude like that you were obviously a fabulous and unbiased recruitment counselor. :rolleyes: This makes me really glad that I pledged at a school with no Panhellenic.

I tell struggling chapters that I work with this all the time:

there are two circles when it comes to your fate - one circle contains everything IN your control the other contains everything outside your control. Right now by concentrating on what other chapters are doing/saying/thinking about your chapter is focusing on what you CAN'T control. No matter how unfair awful mean this is focusing on that which you cannot control will never help your chapter. Instead turn your energy inward, examining every aspect of your chapter's recruitment efforts and work to improve the situation.

Yes this is "tough love" and may sound mean but it is also true.

Sorry, I assumed it was ASU from her username.

LD

I, of course, know nothing about your school or sororities. I am surprised that anyone would say the kinds of things about another group that you have said in a public forum. Anonymity gives you a louder voice, I suppose. I hope your Alpha Chis never experience "bad rush after bad rush" because it is terrible to be in that situation and not be able to dig your way out of it. Perhaps the group does have it's share of unfriendly witches, but so does yours.
ADII - my heart goes out to your group. You have received some good advice and I wish you the best.

Brianna,

I feel for your chapter and I'm sorry this is happening. I don't know if you hold an advisor position for you chapter but it sounds like you would be a great one. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to do this if you weren't an advisor but you guys should be rasing hell with you panhellenic if you aren't already. If other sororities are trash talking they should be getting big time rush infractions. Beyond taking action with panhell I can't think what to do. I suppose it might be possible to call national panhell reps to come observe rush if the campus panhell isn't taking care of the problem. Good luck!

Being an alum who has been through all sides of the recruitment process-- PNM, sister, recruitment counselor, adviser, alumnae director, here are some thoughts...

1) No chapter is including "trash talking the other sororities" in their Recruitment Workshops. The goal is to sell "ABC" sorority to the PNMs, and not "how do we make sure that all the PNMs hate XYZ?" I am sure that once in a while, some sorority woman lets something slip to a PNM (whether in a recruitment party or a personal setting), but it is more likely due to a personal problem with another member of another GLO. Any trash talking is the result of an individual, and not an entire chapter. However, a member is a representative of her chapter and Recruitment Chairs should be mindful of this and remind members to watch their Ps and Qs always. You never know who is listening and when you might injure chapter relations.

2) PNM's talk A LOT of smack. There are women who have rushed before, who are older and going through recruitment after a few years of being on campus, who are younger and have friends at other schools in other sororities who think that all groups bearing the letters "ABC" have the same reputation, girls who are legacies, friends of current sorority members, and in those PNM groups, there is a bunch of misinformation that floats around. YOU HAVE NO IDEA SOME OF THE THINGS I HAVE HEARD!!!! This is where the vast majority of those rumors begin! It's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3) A chapter with steadily declining numbers tends to have a lower self-esteem, and as the numbers fall, so do things like keeping your negativity within the chapter wall's ears, and an their view of other GLO's. This manifests itself in the chapter members being less friendly and unwilling to accept help or constructive criticism. The smaller group unintentionally alientates itself and feels envy toward the larger, more successful group who has mastered the art of keeping internal conflict out of the public eye. (I AM NOT SAYING THAT SORORITIES WITH SMALLER NUMBERS ARE BAD. I AM SAYING THAT A CHAPTER WHOSE NUMBERS ARE FALLING, WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH RECRUITMENT, ETC., IS AT-RISK FOR THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR).

I think one of the best ways to combat negative self-talk within a chapter is to encourage an open-forum meeting with all the members and the Exec Board once a quarter/semester where members can air their feelings. Having motivational speakers and team building exercises as part of a member education workshop or sisterhood retreat are also great ways to motivate. Setting realistic goals at the beginning of the year is a great way to energize the chapter to reach for the stars! RECRUITMENT IS A 365-DAY-A-YEAR PROCESS. Always put your best foot forward!

APhigal hit it on the head. They have the worst attitude of anyone. I know that THEY talk about the other sororities. And if you'd had the kind of dealings with these woman that I have had then you'd be saying....example my best friend (also and AX here) was dating this guy whose exgf is an ADPi here. This ADPi talks shit about my best friend to whoever will listen. She tried to spread the rumor that my best friend had herpes. Now the AX has never even met the ADPi and the ADPi and the guy broke up before the AX even met him.
I mean the shit talking continues even though my best friend is no longer seeing the guy. Like we're talking two nights ago at a bar to a friend of ours that the ADPi hardly knows. I mean, who does that!!!!???

ETA: adpiucf also hit it on the head in point number 3. We did mock rush with them this past fall and we all were very polite and gave them constructive critism because the things they did wrong were things they probably couldn't fix. Anyway, then they came over to our house and tore us apart. Seriously my mouth dropped at what some of them said. And they all felt the need to play the problem PNM. We were all like, what the F&%k just happened.

AXWhoah, it sounds like you have a personal problem with members of ADPi and you're only making yourself look bad by posting such things here -- you're coming off as all the things you're accusing them of being. It's completely inappropriate.

What you don't seem to be getting (requiring me to make it tragically obvious) is that by saying things like "well they deserve it because of blah blah blah" you look just as bad as you are saying they look.

If you were offended by what ASUADPi was saying and thought it wasn't true, you could have picked another way to convey it other than saying the things you said.

OK, so this is the situation as I understand it. Be aware that I'm unfamiliar with the greek system in question.

1. The ADPi chapter is small.
2. The ADPi's feel that other chapters are bad-mouthing them, especially during rush.
3. Some members of other chapters feel that ADPi has talked smack about them.

For point 1, I feel your pain. I recently posted a thread about my concerns regarding my chapter's size. I do have to commend the other sororities at my school, though, for not bad-mouthing us... the only thing I fault them for is going to deferred recruitment without re-evaluating total.

For points 2 and 3, if this is what's going on (from either side) it's very immature and un-Panhellenic. If XYZ badmouths ABC and ABC retaliates by blasting XYZ, that just makes both XYZ and ABC look bad. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's doubly wrong during rush; the message during rush should be "Go XYZ", not "Don't go ABC".

The fact is, it doesn't matter who started what. ADPi is small and needs to regroup and recruit and grow back to a viable size. The other sororities and their members need to give ADPi the space they need to do that. Among other things, that means no bad-mouthing - of any sorority, by any sorority.

ETA: Aphigal... you hit the nail on the head!

I am not bad mouthing them. I merely stated the facts. And it is so easy for all of you to be all holier than thou since you're not here. And to clear things further my recruitment conselor partner, whom I choose, was and ADPi and I love her to death.
My original point before I got side tracked was that they are beyond struggling. They have somewhere between 20 and 30 women on a campus where total is 130 and the next smallest chapter has 70. Sometimes there isn't any more that you can do, and I don't think that it's unpanhellenic of me. No one is saying bad things about them during recruitment.
What I meant by what I said before was that they have gotten to the point where they ooze negativity and you can feel it during recruitment.

Welp, it's time to say what noone else has the gumption to say...the cold, hard truth.

I go to the University of Arizona. The sad fact of the matter is that ADPi has been known as "The Arizona Dog Pound" (ADP) since before I was a freshman. They have had less than 20 girls for some time now, and they are some of the bitchiest girls on campus to boot.

Noone wants to be associated with them. It's just that simple. I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but it's noone's fault but their own that they're in their current situation.

You should never blame your problems on someone else. Take responsibility for your chapters failure, and learn from your mistakes. Don't try and pawn your failures off onto someone else "talking badly" about you. ADPi is the only chapter at the University of Arizona out of 15 some sororities that is doing this poorly.

Grow up and take responsibility, because in the real world noone cares WHY you failed, the simple fact that you did is what counts.

You're succeeding, though.

The truth hurts. The sorority system is the biggest load of sugar coated, politically correct garbage I've ever seen.

Sometimes you have to take the gloves off to get to cause of the problem, which IS NOT that other sororities talk poorly about them during recruitment. As someone up above stated earlier, that's not a taught or practiced recruitment tactic, in either the fraternity or sorority system. You sell what your chapter has to offer, not what other chapters are lacking.

Again, the simple truth is that they're unfriendly, unattractive, and have low numbers. While an extremely politically correct airhead might like to overlook this and focus on an irrelevant result (talking smack) instead of the real reasons, the items listed above are why their chapter is really failing, whether you want to crawl out of your potically correct hole in the ground and acknowledge it or not.

Hey AXWhoah -- I mean sock puppet -- I mean AZPhiPsi -- Yeah, and you just happened to be reading GC today and decided to register because you just happened upon this thread. We believe you, really. It always enhances your credibility when you create a new username.

When you create a new username while still logged in on your old name, you should remember to change your profile. ;)

LOL

Ahaha! AZPhiPsi just changed "his" location from Eugene, Oregon to Tucson, Arizona. I'm fooled!

I saw that. I'm just relieved that this isn't really a Phi Psi.

For those who aren't very computer savvy, apparently cookies on this board transfer between user names. Maybe it didn't occur to some of you that I may know AXWhoah, and that I just never posted on this board before, and she's used my computer to post on greek chat.

Our writing styles are rather different, if you'd like to take a gander.

I'm sorry that my harsh, yet realistic analysis of the situation is looked upon as "bashing" another GLO, as I do realize that I represent my fraternity on this board.

However, my chapter refounded from nothing in 2000, and we have built ourselves back up over 60, as well as finding ourselves a house in less than 3 years, all the while being "talked poorly about" by other chapters. We didn't use it as an excuse, and we will continue view others critizing us as something that is done in response to insecurities they have regarding their own organizations.

It angers me to see someone trying to pawn their organizations failures onto other organizations at our campus, and I will not stand for that. We're adults now, and adults take responsibility for their actions and mistakes. They don't go onto a message board and start crying to other people in a vain effort to unload the failure onto those not present to defend themselves.

"Hello, pot? It's me, kettle."

:rolleyes:

Hon, regardless of "what the real situation is," you're the one who's coming off as classless here. If somebody was to read this thread they would come off with a VERY bad impression of AXO at this particular school.

You can say all the ADPis are bitches at your school and you know what? Maybe they are. Maybe none of the other sororities are talking isht about them. Most of us on this board don't know enough about the school and the situation to know the truth. But strangely the ADPi from your school has conducted herself with much more class and tact than you seem to possess. And given that girls from other sororities don't seem to have any qualms about isht-talking on a message board, it hardly seems implausible that they're doing it during recruitment.


Apparently something in her post struck a nerve, or I have no idea why you would have gotten so upset about it.

Please. Now you're just trying to insult our intelligence.

Speaking for myself, I've had a bad experience with one of their members on several occasions, and have first hand knowledge of some others.

That's why I don't find it acceptable to pawn off their chapters troubles onto the other organizations at our campus, because it's simply not the case. They've built themselves a bad reputation, yet they're refusing to live with the consequences.

AXWhoah has been extremely unpleasant on here in this thread. I'm not sure what sort of a reflection of the prestigious Alpha Chi Omega she thinks she is giving... but she is giving a pretty clear indication of the sort of person she is personally. When someone posts about a concern or a problem if you cannot offer empathy/sympathy or assistance only insults - then it might be better if you do not post? That goes for AXWhoah's friend or alter-ego ("AZPhiPsi") whichever it is, too.

No, insulting your intelligence would be pointing out the fact that you're unable to notice the differences in tone, diction, syntax, and post structure between my writing and AXWhoah's.

And if you know for a fact that the concern is illegitimate, and that the empathy/sympathy is undeserved and unwarranted?

I believe people should take responsibility for their mistakes, not lay the blame for their failure onto others. Sympathizing with their situation would be allowing them to do just that.