Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were.

About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai....ImageFile.jpg

For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following:

Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity:
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970 (see photo at right.)

----- The Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), an anti-war group with which Kerry was affiliated, held a rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, on 7 September 1970.

----- Actress Jane Fonda was present at the Valley Forge rally. (She was not yet known as "Hanoi Jane," however, as her infamous trip to North Vietnam did not occur until two years later.)

http://snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp

It could be someone that looks like him too. This is like the whole thing that Bush went awol when he was in Alabama.

I don't think he would lose veterns support seeing he actually fought in vietnam and didn't use his dads friends to help get him in the national guard so he wouldn't have to go.

If Kerry was so anit-war he would have used his rich parents to get out of going by joining the national guard like Dubya did.

I know too many Viet Nam veterans who have already called him a fake for his admittedly plaguerized accounts of atrocities. Not a one of them plan to support him.

Just my 2¢

True some may not, like some won't that think Bush went awol. I think there will be more veterns voting for Kerry this year than usual for a democrat simply because he did fight even though he probably could have gotten out of it.

Clinton ran to Canada to avoid the war... and was elected President for two terms!

Kerry did serve in 'Nam... and when he came back he joined VVAW.

Say what you will about Bush joining the Air National Guard... He served his country at that time, when others were running away. I know several members of the National Guard that would be very upset if you said they were not serving their country, becuase they joined the NG, instead of the Army, Navy, Marines or Air Force.. Members of the National Guard are here to protect our country, in our country... That does not make their jobs any less important, than those who serve overseas.

I thought it was well known that while Kerry did serve in Vietnam, he was against the war as well. This isn't news, right? :confused:

And I highly doubt he will lose ALL Veteran support b/c he attended a peace rally...

It's the tie-in with Jane Fonda, the woman thousands of veterans believe should of been charged with Treason.

I haven't really decided who I should support in this election year, however, this attempted political character assasination really ticks me off.

Kerry served, apparantely with distinction, in Vietnam while some folks joined the National Guard -- which is pretty much what kids did in order to stay out of S.E. Asia in those days. In my opinion, he earned his right to feel any way he wants about that conflict. He didn't stand on the sidelines and criticize. And, by the way, Naval officers aren't drafted -- since Kerry was one, he either enlisted or went through the ROTC ranks.

We talk about people who have fought so that we can have the freedom to question our government -- to protect our Constitutional Rights. That's EXACTLY what he did.

Read and seriously consider the following, in which Ms. Fonda (not one of my favorite people, by the way) comments on this:

(I added the bold type)


Updated: 08:33 AM EST
Jane Fonda Defends John Kerry

(Feb. 12) - The publication of an old photo of Jane Fonda and John Kerry at an anti-Vietnam War rally is raising questions about the antiwar activities of the Democratic presidential front-runner.

Kerry, a much decorated Vietnam War veteran, became an antiwar activist after he returned to the United States.

The photograph, taken on Labor Day 1970, shows Fonda at an antiwar rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Kerry, who at the time led a group called Vietnam Veterans Against The War, can be seen in background behind her.

Kerry's campaign confirmed that he was at the rally and spoke.

The conservative Internet site NewsMax.com published the three-decades-old photo Monday as President Bush was facing continuing questions about his attendance record for National Guard duty during the Vietnam era.

But aides stressed that Kerry and Fonda were only acquaintances, and the meeting took place two years before Fonda took a controversial trip behind enemy lines and posed for pictures on a North Vietnam army anti-aircraft gun which prompted her angry detractors to dub her "Hanoi Jane."

Rep. Sam Johnson, R-Texas, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, told the Washington Times that Kerry's attendance at the rally with Fonda "symbolizes how two-faced he is, talking about his war reputation, which is questionable on the one hand, and then coming out against our veterans who were fighting over there on the other."

Kerry enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1966 and served as the officer of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. He left Vietnam in 1969 after being wounded three times. He was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple hearts.

His campaign Web site says Kerry became an antiwar demonstrator because he believed that decisions "were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam."

In 1971, Kerry and other veterans threw their military decorations and dog tags onto the steps of the Capitol.

"This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," Fonda said of Kerry's antiwar group.

Fonda also dismissed attempts to link Kerry to her controversial antiwar past with the photograph as "a dirty black propaganda tactic."

"My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie," she told CNN Wednesday. "Any attempts to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands.

"I'm tired of the government lying. I'm tired of people desperately pulling out anything that they can do to hurt another candidate, and I think that the American people feel that way, too," she said. "It's a bunch of hogwash."

She also said that she does not recall meeting Kerry during the antiwar movement, although she said she did meet him years later after he became a senator and she was married to Ted Turner, who founded CNN but no longer has any management role with the network.

Kerry aides said he did not support Fonda's trip to Vietnam, an action for which many veterans still refuse to forgive her more than 30 years later.

On the campaign trail, Kerry frequently talks about both his war record and his antiwar activities after coming home, and he has said he is proud of both.

But his so-called association with Fonda has begun to draw fire from conservatives and veterans.

"It bothered us, anyone who associated themselves with Jane Fonda, with (her husband)Tom Hayden, with the antiwar movement," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-California, a former Navy pilot shot down in 1972.

"We just wanted to do our job, complete our mission for our country that sent us and come back alive. And having people like Sen. Kerry protest that was kind of a slap in the face to us."

But the president of the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, Bobby Muller, said Kerry has strong support among Vietnam vets.

"We have been contacted by veterans across the country [asking], 'How do I connect to the Kerry campaign?'" he said. "I have not seen in the 26 years that I've been in Washington, ever, the kind of dynamic and energizing of a Vietnam veteran community in this country as I am right now."


02-12-04 06:13 EST

To quote an overused, but still thoughtful old joke:

Question: What's the difference between (George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Dan Quayle -- you fill in the blank) and Jane Fonda?

Answer: Jane Fonda has been to Viet Nam.

She deserves the death penalty.

-Rudey
--And I don't even support it.

Ah, so he should have been on the lookout for Jane Fonda and not participated in a rally she was at *in case* she went to North Vietnam as a "traitor" 2 years in the future?

Oh, ok. It all makes sense why people shouldn't support him now...:rolleyes:

That's your right to believe and say. I don't care one way or another about her.

But this isn't really about Jane Fonda. It's about Senator Kerry.

It's so funny to see just how desperate people on the Right are becoming.

They were in the same audience at a rally. I've been in the same audience as Ronald AND Nancy (fricking) Reagan -- and have been photographed with both -- but that doesn't make me a member of the GOP.

But you just go ahead and keep grasping at those straws, docet. Gosh knows most people on the right are going to need something to keep them occupied after the elections in November.

Hey I would commend him on his service, but I won't as long as he's associated with a woman that should have been shot.

-Rudey
--By shot I don't mean anything dirty

Re: Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by docetboy
Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were.

About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai....ImageFile.jpg

For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following:

Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity:
The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation.

----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970

The Kerry Campaign has confirmed that the candidate was at the rally and spoke there.

In terms of "how close" they were, consider this. You can see, with no photographic expertise, that Kerry is at least two to three rows behind Fonda in what appears to be a large crowd.

Notice how out of focus his face is. Because it is fairly clear that the shot was taken outside in reasonably bright sunshine, that indicates at least two things:

1) It was probably shot with a telephoto lens from some distance away, and

2) that even under those (sunshine) conditions which expand what we call "depth of field" (two points between which a camera lens will capture its subject in hard focus -- the forground and background will be in soft focus), his face is in soft focus. What that tells those of us who make our living around lenses is that, while the use of telephoto generally decreases depth of field, the higher number fstop used in bright sunshine increases it.

OK, I admit that's confusing. Here's what it means, though. Kerry was not "with" Jane Fonda at this rally. He was sitting somewhere in the crowd several feet behind her.

My only point is this: The picture proves that Kerry was (admittedly) at the same rally -- to say, as it does above -- that it shows how "close" the two were is highly misleading.

Edited to add that the angle of the camera (shooting from "our" right to left) makes it look like Kerry is closer to Fonda as well. In reality, he is at least two to three (or maybe one or two more) people to her right, our left.

So, that puts him about three (horizontal for the sake of the pic) rows behind and at least three (vertical) rows to her right.

Is that "close" in the context of friends in a crowd. I wouldn't say so.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate propaganda tactics like this -- no matter who they're used against or for.

Re: Re: Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

How come Kerry didn't move away from that rally when he found out about her?

Was she just like any other ordinary person and able to sit anywhere she wanted or would people who sat even 2 rows from her be somewhat not-ordinary?

-Rudey
--Wouldn't it be hilarious if we revoked his citizenship? hahaha

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeltAlum

Quote:

Originally posted by docetboy Once this picture gets into the mainstream...featuring just how close Kerry and Hanoi Jane were. About Hanoi Jane Fonda: http://snopes.com/military/fonda.htm http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai....ImageFile.jpg For those of you thinking it might be fake, Snopes points out the following: Origins: We're not absolutely sure of the origins and dating of this photograph, which purports to show Massachusetts Senator (and the potential 2004 Democratic nominee for President) John Kerry at a September 1970 anti-war rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, but much evidence points to its authenticity: The image shows no obvious signs of digital manipulation. ----- The person pictured in the background (just above Jane Fonda's head) looks like a young John Kerry, who was 26 years old in 1970 The Kerry Campaign has confirmed that the candidate was at the rally and spoke there. In terms of "how close" they were, consider this. You can see, with no photographic expertise, that Kerry is at least two to three rows behind Fonda in what appears to be a large crowd. Notice how out of focus his face is. Because it is fairly clear that the shot was taken outside in reasonably bright sunshine, that indicates at least two things: 1) It was probably shot with a telephoto lens from some distance away, and 2) that even under those (sunshine) conditions which expand what we call "depth of field" (two points between which a camera lens will capture its subject in hard focus -- the forground and background will be in soft focus), his face is in soft focus. What that tells those of us who make our living around lenses is that, while the use of telephoto generally decreases depth of field, the higher number fstop used in bright sunshine increases it. OK, I admit that's confusing. Here's what it means, though. Kerry was not "with" Jane Fonda at this rally. He was sitting somewhere in the crowd several feet behind her. My only point is this: The picture proves that Kerry was (admittedly) at the same rally -- to say, as it does above -- that it shows how "close" the two were is highly misleading.

not to get too off topic, but anyone else think that kerry used to look like jason lee in 'almost famous'?

Re: Re: Re: Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

Rudey, my friend,

I have a lot of respect for you, but you are way to intelligent to make this argument. This rally was (it says above) two years before the fabled Hanoi trip for Ms. Fonda. It was probably well before Kerry was well known. How aware are you, generally, of who is in that large of a proximity in a big crowd? Be honest.

For that matter, given the above timing, why shouldn't he be there. He was admittedly one of the speakers on the program.

That doesn't prove that the two were friends, co-conspirators, or even met. It simply means that they were there to make their own comments and points about something they believed in.

Which, last time I checked, was still their Constitutional right to do.

The long hair guy kinda look like Jim Morrison.

That guy does look like Jason Lee, but he's not John Kerry. Kerry is the fuzzy face behind the girl with glasses who is behind Jane Fonda.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

Was her Hanoi trip the only awful thing she'd done? ie was she a lamb prior to that?

It might be his constitutional right to make comments on the same platform - but it is also wise to distance yourself from idiots who might share a common interest with you. Lyndon LaRouche is a self-claimed Democrat but the Democratic party has distanced themselves from him because of his bigotted views.

-Rudey
--Plus he has a banana face that really pisses me off.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kerry to lose all Veterans Support.....
 

Well, let's see. She belonged to a famous family and once appeared nude in "Barbarella" (great body, dumb film), but I can't think of anything else -- with the exception of being part of the anti-war movement -- that was particularly controversial. But, as I said, I'm not a big fan.

Bottom line to me is that they were speaking at the same rally, and sitting in the same crowd.

So what?

Whew! That's a relief! I thought it was the long-haired guy as well. Here I was thinking the man had aged TERRIBLY!!!

The guy to her right is kinda' cute...;)

Screw that...we've got reports slamming into the office hardcore right now about 3 possible interns Kerry has had sexual encounters with - 1 being sent overseas prior to the campaign. IF this holds truth, I'll report it ASAP.

-Rudey

I've read through this whole thread and I can't believe the views that Docetboy and Rudey are taking in assuming such a connection between Fonda and Kerry.

Would either of you two move away from Howard Dean if you happened to be sitting three rows away from him at a professional sporting event? One that was two years ago? It's not exactly the same scenario, but that's what you both are asking Kerry to have done. I guess it would be better to use a more previously well known person, but the point is that at that point for Kerry, Jane Fonda had done nothing of significance in regards to the war. You can't punish someone for being in the same place as your criminal TWO YEARS before the commited the criminal act...It'd be like ripping on people that knew Jeffery Dahmer in High school or junior, claiming that they were freaks for having gone to the same school.

It's just ridiculous.

Whoa, people... slow down!

All that's being done is making a federal death penalty case out of a jaywalking ticket! (A typical 'charge' leveled in the Supreme Court of Public Opinion. ;)) Mere presence at an anti-war rally does not constitute treason nor sedition, at least as far as the First Amendment to our Constitution is concerned.

As mentioned before, 'Hanoi Jane' hadn't - yet - committed the act of treason so well documented in photos a couple of years later. Treason is an very difficult charge to make stick - our Founding Fathers made it so in our Constitution to avoid the arbitrary excesses of English law of the time. (It was not unusual for the immediate family members of an accused traitor to be imprisoned and/or executed for treason as well; 'treason of the blood' is what it was called.)

Sen. Kerry did his time honorably and bravely. A Silver Star (the third highest decoration for gallantry in combat - only the Medal of Honor and the Distiguished Service/Navy/Air Force Cross are higher in the 'Pyramid of Honor' of US military decorations) is not given out like candy. He chose to protest the war after he got out; that's entirely his right to do as an American.

Not a single word on the Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN or Associated Press websites...

Were any of them named Monica?

I really hope you're never my doctor.

-Rudey
--Thanks

More than likely it's probably going to be coming in from NY publications I heard. It's not April Fools so unless some politicians out there are really big dicks, I think Edwards might end up a happy man.

-Rudey
--Now that I think about it, they're all really big dicks

It took me a few minutes to actually see Kerry in that photo.

glad i'm not the only one.. i kept looking at it going, where is he?

It's better than the retard in our office who thought it was the guy right behind her with all the hair and sunglasses.

-Rudey

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU FEB 12, 2004 11:45:28 ET XXXXX

CAMPAIGN DRAMA ROCKS DEMOCRATS: KERRY FIGHTS OFF MEDIA PROBE OF RECENT ALLEGED INFIDELITY, RIVALS PREDICT RUIN

**World Exclusive**
**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT**

A frantic behind-the-scenes drama is unfolding around Sen. John Kerry and his quest to lockup the Democratic nomination for president, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal.

Intrigue surrounds a woman who recently fled the country, reportedly at the prodding of Kerry, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

A serious investigation of the woman and the nature of her relationship with Sen. John Kerry has been underway at TIME magazine, ABC NEWS, the WASHINGTON POST, THE HILL and the ASSOCIATED PRESS, where the woman in question once worked.

A close friend of the woman first approached a reporter late last year claiming fantastic stories -- stories that now threaten to turn the race for the presidency on its head!

In an off-the-record conversation with a dozen reporters earlier this week, General Wesley Clark plainly stated: "Kerry will implode over an intern issue." [Three reporters in attendance confirm Clark made the startling comments.]

The Kerry commotion is why Howard Dean has turned increasingly aggressive against Kerry in recent days, and is the key reason why Dean reversed his decision not to drop out of the race after Wisconsin, top campaign sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

circled in this picture:

http://www.northmiamiclassof1983.org...-kerry-mod.jpg

i knew that couldn't be him... i just wasn't looking in the right place. then all of a sudden i noticed him...

Drudge has had some success breaking stories -- but I think I'll hold out for confirmation from a real news organization.

drudge.com has more info on it. We didn't hear it from Drudge but from politicians...i'm not chummy enough with any to know their source. Drudge says that it'll be in large papers in a couple hours and that it's from the non-partisan watchblog.com

-Rudey

Yeah. Also checked the Times and Daily News and rechecked the network sites.

Nothing yet.

ETA this from Drudge:

FROM CONRESSIONAL QUARTERLY'S CRAIG CRAWFORD: 'Drudge item on Kerry intern issue is something Chris Lehane (clark press secy) has shopped around for a long time -- it was one reason the Gore vetters in 2000 shied away from Kerry as a running mate choice -- their conclusion that it wasn't bad enough to disqualify him, except for the fact that they couldn't risk it as they were trying so hard to distance themselves from Clinton's personal failings (note: Lehane worked for Gore at the time -- and briefly advised Kerry during this campaign). The Kerry camp has long expected to deal with this, and have assured party leaders they can handle it'...

As for the interns (though I just heard ladies, not interns)... I think (please do not quote me) it will be in the Boston Globe tomorrow, in Howie Carr's column. I heard it on both FM and AM talk shows late morning/early afternoon today (both mostly conservative stations), so I did not post anything.

What do you think of this Kerry news?
 

I don't normally read the drudge report, so I don't know how accurate these things are.

www.drudgereport.com

Re: What do you think of this Kerry news?
 

They have some degree of accuracy. We'll see.

There is already a fair amount of comment on this topic on the "Kerry losing Vietnam Vets Votes thread. I wonder if we could confine them to that one since it has a head start?

Here's a link:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=46616