What if they don't want to live in house?
 

Do chapters ever experience this?

How do you deal with it?

Plans are almost finalized to purchase a house on campus for my chapter and now brothers are hesitant:

"I might be abroad next year".

"I want to be with my girlfriend and have privacy".

"I want a pimp apartment".

This is ridiculous and it's pretty offensive when the price for something like this is 7 figures.

I've asked them to consider forcing pledges to move in.

-Rudey
--Any thoughts?

I am working with a chapter in a similar situation right now, although we'll be renting and not purchasing. I was worried about those issues and met with them to tell them all the cons of having a house and said that they needed to vote whether to continue with the plans. I instructed them that if they would not be willing to live in the house to say "NO" and if they were willing to move in that it would be a "yes" vote. I would get them to vote one more time before it's a done deal.

We develop bylaws for who has to live in.. specific officers first. Then, based on a point system. Whoever has the highest points (based on activities, offices held, class year, GPA, etc) can choose to live in first and is forced to live in last. So, if we have more women who want to live in than we have rooms, the people with the highest points get first choice. If we don't have enough voluntarily live in, then the ones with the lowest points are forced to live in.

As for making new members live in, this depends on whether they'd be able to break leases/'housing contracts that are already signed.

Dee

That sounds pretty messed up dude... I know that I'd be offended... Purchasing a house is a HUGE deal and it is something everyone should want to be a part of... I think that part of brotherhood means sticking together and being loyal to your group... They made the decision to join the fraternity, and should want to be a part of its expansion.. I'm thinking its a question of loyalty.. Don't really have any advice to offer, I'm just a little shocked at reading this... Just figured i'd throw down my opinion...

Hope everyone comes around and everything works out alright...
Take it easy,
-Matt

Does your Nationals have rules because we do.......

Technically all Gamma Phi collegians must live in the house as long as the house it not at occupancy.

The chapter I advise does a "points" system to determine who gets first choice in whether to live in or not (I think this is pretty standard). They get points for showing up for things (and for their class rank, etc) and the more points they have, the better their position in the "line" to get to choose.

Usually those with more points are seniors so they choose to live out. The points also allow them to choose the better rooms in the house.

Check your University rules because there might be something they have to say about it as well. As an example, I know of one school who says all freshman MUST live on campus (well most require this part) BUT they don't consider the fraternity/sorority houses "on campus housing".

This is how we - and most houses on campus - did it as well.

This as well.

Sororities at IU, at least when I was there, required members to live in for a certain amount of time. Usually it was 2 years, some houses required 3. (I am going to assume they made exceptions for sisters studying abroad, doing internships, student teaching or anything else that required them to be away from campus for a semester or a year.) The houses there are ginormous though. I am not sure if that's changed...maybe someone who is currently at IU can tell me. :)

My chapter actually went through this whole ordeal on housing two years back. Many other sororities have been going through the same thing too. Which prompted the school when building the new houses on campus to decrease the amount of rooms. I dont want to go into specifics though bc well it was really an inside problem that was taken care of.

Total overall on campus had gone down with the increase in the amount of sororities since they built the houses and such. Plus, we had been taking a lot of sophomores. This was creating a problem bc most of them already had apartments when they joined so they didnt want to give these up.

Now we tell pnms during recruitment straight up that we have a housing policy and that everyone must live in the house at least one year. We also put it in positive light as well. The problem has gone away now ecspecially since numbers have been going up and we have tried to focus on taking freshman mostly.

I believe at West Ga they school requires that you pay for about 25 beds a year, so if not many girls do not sing up then they have to raises the dues. (its a dorm hall that all 6 live in, each sorority gets it own floor)

So most chapter require that all officers live in (unless you live at home) and that every one must live there for 1 year.

rudey
 

the zta house at fsu has by-laws very similar to what agdee listed and the point system works nicely. officers(executive council)are required to live in, then it works on a point basis. rooms are also chosen, with the exception of the president's, on a point basis. the president has a room to herself. of course, the sororities at fsu mostly have the opposite problem to yours -having too many sisters wanting to live in and not enough rooms!

i hope that your guys come around and realize that they have the rest of their lives to live in apartments, but only one chance to live in a fraternity house.

Our house corporation has to deal with this on a regular basis. People just don't seem as willing to share rooms, bathrooms, etc. as they used to. A lot of new university housing is catering to these wishes. People just don't seem to want to compromise their wants for the good of the group. I have also seen a lot of groups that have lost their houses because they overbuilt and then couldn't fill the house, thus defaulting on their mortgages. My recommendation is to never need more than 1/3 of your chapter to live in the house to be able to make the payments/bills.
Also, my alma mater has decided to offer two year housing contracts, where students who live in University housing the first year will pay the same rate the second year. Parents are all about the $$$ and commit to this contract before their son or daughter even start school. They can't break the contract, and they can't move into Greek housing until their junior year! Its a growing problem:(

I've herd from other chapter that they require at least 1 to 2 years of residency in the chapter house. Maybe you can do something like the new member requiring to live in the house for a year.

I can't do anything. I am an alum. I can organize for a very large sum to be organized, I can help create a corporation, I can probably even donate a bit - but I cannot require or force anyone to do what I want no matter what. And it's frustrating me to no end. No fraternity has found housing unless they were here for a century. Property values for a 5 bedroom are $1 million +. You would think these kids would wisen up. I've sent in the point and requirement suggestions to other members and to the undergrad listserv.

And Sikes, I promise you that no matter what you'd love to believe about brotherhood and all that, there will always be drama, there will always be differing opinions, arguments, fights, things that make you wish you could beat someone's head in and question why you joined. But at the end of the day you are at least given the opportunity to be in a position that let's you decide, argue, support your interests through a powerful organization.

-Rudey

Very true. Changing the by-laws of the chapter in the only thing i can think of. As for buying a house, does your national have a National House Corp that give out loans?

I think so but they are trying to move out more into local housing corps from what I see and I can't blame them. It rests the responsibilities on local chapters and doesn't all of a sudden make the national fraternity liable for defaults and empty rooms which so many fraternities suffer from.

-Rudey
--I'm not even sure if alumni can change by-laws...

The way our national works, the national house corps give loan to the local chapter house corps. I believed that is how most national house corps operate. So the liability goes to the local chapter. No, alum can't change the by-laws. However, you can lobby the chapter to changed it. I'm pretty sure that most chapter would accomodate the Alum Corp if a house is involved.

ETA: What are you doing up so late?

let them have girls to sleep over and offer free condoms ;) lol tell them you will soundproof the walls so they can make as much noise as they like. sorry if I am being bad

Rudey, can totally understand, but without having a full house, then why have one.?

If the house cannot be filled, then the per bed cost will be either to high to afford a house or there is no need to even try to get one. Another option is to have high parlor fees to cover the empty bed cost.

If a House Corporation is set up then it must be put in the Chapter bylaws that so designate that a member must live in the house for a period of time.

Usually the newer members would be required to fill the house if older members did not fill the beds. Rank does have privilages "IF" they have been living in a house!

Most guys should want to live in the house, that is the center of the action!:)

I agree with Tom. The last thing you want is for the chapter Housing corp to be heavily in debt. This will make future purchase or renovation of the house almost imposible. I've seen some chapters go beyond their means in renovating their house and all of the sudden they owe a lot of money in mortgages. Within a year, they lost their house, which means they start loosing PNM then bang, they loose their charter due to low membership. I would venture to say, have an alum - active meeting and plan a strategic plan. Maybe a 5 years plan so the two groups know where they are going, so you can assess if a house is viable for the near future.

Gee, too bad you missed the shacking thread. :rolleyes:


I would be really careful over forcing people to live in - feeling obligated to do that can be the death of a chapter. Delta Chi here just made a really smart move - built a brand new house with all single bedrooms.

That's not a possibility. Houses here break 7 figures past 4 bedrooms and are also in such a high demand that they're impossible to find open property.

-Rudey

One sorority at my school has a housing policy that's something like this:

Certain officers (most or all of exec board, and the house manager) must live in.

The remaining beds are offered first to seniors, then juniors, then sophomores. (Freshmen must live in the dorms.) I think the more you've done for the sorority, the higher your pick within your class year.

If there are any vacant beds left, no one is forced to move in, but all members who were eligible to live in-house and chose not to, have to split the rent for that room. That way, you get your rent, but no one is forced to give up a cushy single in the dorms or a private apartment to share a room with 3 other people.

I don't think they've ever had a problem, though; the house has around 26 beds and there are usually 70-80 sophs/juniors/seniors.

Instead of buying a house that the brothers don't want to live in maybe you could find a house that has the features that would make the brothers want to live there. There are a lot of different style houses and you could probably find one that suits the wants/needs of the majority.



Style A. The sterotypical chapter house that looks like a small dorm with a grand entry, chapter room, and commercial kitchen on the first floor. The second and third floors would be dormatory style rooms with a gang bathroom at the end of the hall.

Style B. Might be an old Victorian that is converted to apartments. Each apartment could have 2 bedrooms a private bath and a small kithchen. The basement could have a chapter room, party space, pool table, ect.


I think they would both be cool houses. Some people might prefer A but others might prefer B.

Rudey,

How many would the house hold, and approximately how many are in the chapter?

All I can say about making people live in is, if you decide to do it, you HAVE to strictly enforce it, unless someone's an RA, lives with parents, or has to live on a certain location on campus due to loans (and if that's the case, make them get documentation for it). Once you let one person slide, you are toast.

This is a really really good idea that I am going to bring up to my chapter.

In my chapter, the entire exec board must live in, as well as gracious living, chaplain, and house corp representative (I believe that's what its called), but I do not know about everyone else!

Ultimately, the chapter will have to make the hard decision if a house is a good idea or not.

It constantly amazes me how chapters that HAD a house then lost it, or, a new organization, always whines that they don't have a house. Yet, once they get one again, or one for the first time, they STILL whine the opposing argument of "but I don't want to live in it". In other words...I want the PRIVELEGE, but not the RESPONSIBILITY.

Plenty of chapters do NOT have houses, yet are very strong organizations.

Main point: a HOUSE does not make a chapter, the members do!

That being said, my previous experience seems to mirror a lot of what everyone else said - at the chapter I advised, we had just over 30 rooms to fill, and a membership in excess of 100. The way room assignment works was as follows: The President had the Presidential Suite, and was required to live in house, in addition to all Executive Committe officers, the house and kitchen managers, and a couple of other officers.

A point system was also used, where points earned for a variety of activities, including already living in the house, participation in office, community service, committee work, other student organizations (atheletics/clubs, etc...) and others. High points had first choice to opt out of living in the house, but conversly, if they DID want to live in the house (most did anyways) - High points also had first choice of what room they would get to live in. It trickled down from there.

In rare instances, where the parents of a member expressly forbade them from living in the house (which happened more frequently than I thought), if not high enough in points to be eligible to opt out, had to pay a discounted rental fee to offset their choosing to not live in the house. This option was only exercised in EXTREME circumstances.

Other exceptions applied to RA's and other students that were required to live on-campus (certain sports teams had this), as well as members who lived at home with their parents.

Of course, this all boils down to responsible management of the house by both the Housing Corp and chapter members. It is hard to "require" people to live in what could be considered "substandard" or downright filthy conditions, so it has to be continually maintained and cleaned by all members to not only be healthy, but attactive, ESPECIALLY when parents of exisiting or potential members came to visit. Since the majority of students have dues/fees paid by the parents, their perceptions can really help, or hurt, the present and future conditions and course of the chapter.

Well said. All chapter members must take responsibility for their house. Regardless if they live in or not.

Its an on campus house and its costing that much? Is it through the university that you would be paying for the house or is it just that its close to campus?

I know that since ours is done through the school.. we "rent" the house each year as a chapter then girls who live in the rooms pay a certain fee each semester. Its all in all a good situation except for the renting part bc then our house corp. are more hesitant to put money into the house.. since if we cant fill it or if something happens to our chapter we would essentially lose it and all of our investment.. so over time we have fixed up our house..

..also speaking of seeing other chapters in debt over their house.. one sorority went out and spent all this money on their new house on campus.. they ended up not being able to pay for it and held fundraisers asking other chapters for money as if it was for their philanthropy come to find out it was for their house..

Rudey, after seeing some of the advice here, then the hard decision has to be made. To House or not To House, that is the question!

While House Corporations own a house, and "They are The Ones who take it in the ass", they are also Brothers of the Chapter not some slum lord! They try to look oout for the interests of the Chapter House and The Brothers.

My Chapter is this very postition, "We cant Rush", We do not have a House, We demoloshed it for safety condidtions. Then we have 5 Brothers who will step up and pay to build a new house, and it is, well, we cannot afford the rent as We do not have enough guys!

Well cry me a friggen river! You want a House but do not want to back it by paying the costs then do without a House!

It sounds like the movie, "The Field Of Dreams, Build It and They Will Come"! BS! In for and ounce, in for a pound, Yes or No!:mad:

If costs are to high, rent a house where they can put Letters on it or get the School to rent space in the Dorm for Them to live together. LXA FIT is just that and other Greeks have Houses and we are one of the strongest there.

Bro, all I can say is good luck, if Your Guys are not going to back it, then dont, period. If they do not want to, then what kind of Brothers are thay???!:(

A house can make The Chapter Money, or It Can Be a Money Pit! Insurance and Utilities are a Major Cost for sure!

This is done privately. University officials have no say. The offer for a house on our part is on the table. If the offer isn't taken within a year and a house is not found, it's off the table.

-Rudey

You must remember that when I was running it, I felt the same way and do today, ours, not the Schools. Period!

Some Schools have done a Greek Court or Housing thing! It is working in some and not others!

Guess it depends on the situation! By The By, Rudey, PM you!

Re: What if they don't want to live in house?
 

In my chapter, living on the sorority floor for 5 semesters is a requirement. Those that do not get fined 150 bucks. There is however a difference in not being able to live there because it's full and simply not wanting to live there. Those that live with their parents in town or cant live on the floor because it's full do not get fined. Members who simply dont want to live on the floor do get fined for every semester they havent lived on the floor up to the required number (ie. required to live 5 semesters but only lived there for 2 then they would be fined for 3 semesters).This is because if we do not keep the floor full, The office of Residential Life will put independents on the floor, thus we lose the floor.

My advice would be to set a number of semesters for members to be required to live in house. Let the pledges know this their first meeting and encourage them to go ahead and move in as a pledge if possible. Have the ones that dont want to live in the house pay fines for each required semester they arent living there. In a lot of cases money talks and is a great incentive for good or bad.

Maybe you need to look for a house that has more common area space than sleeping space. Make the house into a more social place if you need it for rush, parties, brotherhood events etc. If you have only 5 or so you'll not have to worry too much for filling, and if you have only 5 members you have other issues to deal with. But a nice hang out space could give you a way to allow the chapter the social nature, w/out the filling issue. (Maybe if it could be expanded later if more demand to live in increases.) We had a house that did that 4 spaces for 30 women and now are in a new house w/10 spaces for about 25 women. We keep it as a social center. We are able to fill easily, using a point system, and lots of the house hangs out there. I guess my point is that social/common space is more important than beds.
Good Luck!