Some people will steal the stink out of shi.....
 

Okay ya'll...now I know I haven't been around lately, but I really wanted to get this comment in on the commercial break from the MTV music awards.

Doesn't it trip you out that white people will steal so many of "our" moves, and sayings and styles. To me, it really irks me...BE YOURSELF... What triggered all of this...N'Sync's performance. 'Dem white boys brought back the "butterfly"...what was that??? Then didn't he say something about it's time to get on the floor, if you want a "HOT BOY" don't look no more!! UUUURRRRGHHHH!!!

Is Nothing Sacred??? Please...some things just get to me...and on the preshow when the guy was interviewing Nellie and he kept saying "Bro"....just be yourself!!! Anyway, just wanted to vent...I don't feel like I am missing anything, if I am...Mtv will play it like 90 times before the weekend is out anyway....

Until later

Peace....Love...NAPPINESS

I didn't know that dancing was a black thing. I didn't know that black people have a copyright on the word hot boy. I also didn't know that it's a federal offense if a white person uses the term bro. I will agree that sometimes white people try to patronize the hip-hop culture. Frankly, I'm flattered when they (whites, or other ethnic groups for that matter) emulate african american culture and traditions. It means that we're doing something right and that we got it going on for sure. As long as they respect it and don't take it lightly, I have no problem with it. More power to them. And I'm out!

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

[This message has been edited by NUPE4LIFE (edited September 07, 2000).]

I understand both points, 'onesavvydiva' it does make me mad when I see our moves or even our slang used by others and NUPE4LIFE I feel that I am justified in this feeling because when I do see other ethnic groups (including the white peeps) they seem to use the moves and the language and not know the background or have respect for it. BUT U R right we did not patent it and it is not FUBU wear (even though they got that on too).
One example is people picking up the N word that we as black folks love to use but hate when others do it, and they simply say it or do it because we do ... now that's work irks me .... they seem to be playing a game of monkey SEE monkey DO!!!!!
That's just my opinion, can you see where I am getting with this??

Diva I completely understand where you are coming from. Nupe I don't understand your logic, but I can respect your opinion. All I can say is that history is in the process of repeating itself. It happened 40 years ago, and it's about to happen again:-(

Interested_Lady

Onesavvydiva, I understand your feelings on this subject. I think what bothers me is when someone from the black community comes up with something like a dance or slang, it is considered stupid or ridiculous until a white person picks it up and runs with it. Then, all of a sudden it is "cool" and mainstream and everyone is telling us to "talk to the hand," "get to steppin'," or saying "you go, girl." http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

But why are they always five years late when they do pick these things up?!?! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

I agree with you onesavvydiva. I find it intriguing. The thing that bothers me is that they (caucasians) are always saying that they don't like black people then they turn around and try to be like us. I mean, the first sunny day in Tallahassee, you can go over to FSU and you can't see the grass for all of the caucasians laying out tanning. Why emulate something that you disdain?

[This message has been edited by mizzkes (edited September 08, 2000).]

I must add, that onesavvydiva has made some valid points to which I agree. I was just coming from the perspective that not all white people hate us and mock our culture. And several people have mentioned whites who wanna be black by emulating us. If you wanna go there, we can't forget about some of us who are breaking their necks to be like them too. Peace out. And much black love and power!

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

How's the saying go: "Imitation is the highest form of flattery." If the art form/cultural characteristic is attractive, people will adopt it. It makes me feel dam good to be African-American. Now if we can give them something else besides the arts to immitate us at....

"Imitation is the highest form of flattery. If the art form/cultural characteristic is attractive, people will adopt it. It makes me feel dam good to be African-American."
I have to admit, when I see and hear things like this, I'm usely upset at the fact that there is never any recongnition to African-Americans. Or that our style of whatever wasn't good enough until Britney Spears, N Sync or whoever came along.

However, you think that white people imitating blacks throws you for aloop. My good friend from Japan was showing me pictures of her hometown and OOOHHH MY DEAR! Did I not see Japanese kids wearing FUBU, baggy pants, and sporting dreads or cornrolls! Yes, MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR! My friend told me that, the same thing happens in Japan. I also saw some Japanese girls with blonde hair and SUPER dark skin and others with braids and dark skin. I'm not sure if their trying to be Pamela Anderson, Tyra Banks, or YO-YO! So I guess if imitation is flattery, I'm flattered.

Okay if we go with the flattery thing then okay I am somewhat Flattered!! But 'Nupe4Life', I see your point about some of us breaking our neck to be like them. I, myself have done the weaves and such to make my hair appear longer, not that this is a white thing, but you see all the models with long hair and we (me too) think that is cute, but hey where did it come from ... European styles that's where. So, I see both sides, but back to respect - They pick up our dialect and our style of dress and attitude and haven't a clue where it came from and why ... (still upsets me)!!!!

NUPE4LIFE...hey, you know I always expect that you'll bring another side of the argument to the table...I really enjoy you input and I agree with you to a certain extent. Maybe I didn't verbalize what I was trying to say because I was so rushed. The SF stated EXACTLY what I was getting at...what I don't like about it is that when we do it...it is considered trash, uneducated, slang, ebonics,...and when they pick up on it, recycle it and such...it the "newest craze"! I was flipping through the channels and on MTVs TRL that's all they were talking about is NSync's performance. What did they do that black people haven't been doing for years.

I know I might make some enemies by saying the following...but ya'll know I am going to say it anyway. Everybody is so up in arms and upset about the things that Eminem says and does. What is new about his lyrics that some "hard-core" African-American rapper hasn't already said. It's just the fact that it is a nice looking(not grungy) white kid saying...this man has the Gay and Lesbian community pairing up the the Church to boycott his records!!! Why are so many people making a big deal about it? My opinion is that when it's a black rapper/artist who says something negative not as many people notice or have much to say about it. But when a white guy comes out with some of the same lyrics...everybody is concerned with "what is music coming to". Please don't get me wrong...I don't dislike white people or any GROUP of people for that matter. But some things just rub me the wrong way.

It is true that "imitation is the highest form of flattery", but if someone imitates me, and they get more attention for "being me", than I do...I feel a little cheated.

Peace, Love, and Nappiness

Sorry for the double post, but I had something to add.

As far as the word "bro" goes. My point is simply.."Be Yourself". When he's talking to Nellie he is like...Bro this, and Bro that...and then he's talking to Red Hot Chili Peppers and he's like...Dude this, and Dude that! THat's what I mean...I don't like when people try to identify with me by speaking in slang. I don't like it in person, and I don't like it when I see it done on TV. Do you thing that I may not understand you if you aren't like calling me "sistergirl" or what have you. Perfect example, my Pharmacist-in-Charge was talking to me...and she's trying to tell me to go see "Scary Movie" and in her little Vallygirl, Clueless voice she says "Sistergirl, it was sooo funny...Are you and your homegirls going to go see it?" And she only talks like that to me...I am NOT saying that we OWN the language...but if that isn't WHO you are, don't use it...it is condescending and it's not flattering in that context. Now this is my personal opinion, and just one of my personal pet peeves. I am sure that I am forgetting something, so I will probably be back http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Thanks for all of the positive comments...keep it flowing, I love to hear different perspectives.

As for N'SYNCH, Backstreet Boys, Brittany Spears, and Christina Aguilera, they all have Black choreographers. The lead singer for N'SYNCH grew up on Black culture. He wants his group to emulate New Edition and Boys to Men. Was Teena Marie trying to be Black? Pop music and pop culture always has appropriated African American sub-culture. After they catch on to what we have done for years, they sanitize to their cultural standards and sensitivities and lo and behold, Little Richard becomes Elvis and Pat Boone, Bo Diddley becomes the Rolling Stones, B.B. King becomes Eric Clapton, New Edition becomes New Kids on the Block, Brandy begets Brittany and Monica begets Cristina Aguilera. Fashion can be imitated, language comes from cultural interaction
(and white women watching Oprah). Because it is cool now to be ghetto, white people think that they are down. Every white kid under 15 listens to mostly Hip Hop, thats where they are picking up on the fashion, hair, language and culture. BUT I DO HATE TO BE PATRONIZED!!! Speak to me like you speak to eveyone else.

What's up all!

This is an interesting topic. I'm not sure about this. I see and can relate to both sides of the topic.
Let's start w/ the way some white folks have adopted "black" slang, dance, dress, etc.
I think for me, it annoys me when you see white folks trying to adopt things black folks do and you KNOW that they are doing it cuz they think it's cool or so they can be down or something to that effect.
On the other hand, there are white people that grow up around blacks, go to school w/ all blacks, etc and that's just what they are accustomed to. For example, my first boyfriend was white. However, you would've thought he was a black person cuz of the way he spoke (accent and dialect), the way he dressed, etc. For him, it just seemed to be natural. It wasn't like he was doing it to fit in or look cool. That was how he was 24/7 all becuz of his environment.

I have to agree that I do feel flattered when white people adopt things from our culture and can really try to relate to us and aren't "acting black" cuz they think it's sweet or the like. But when whites try to do what blacks do and it comes out all weird sounding, then I get upset. It's like don't do it/say it, if you are doing/saying it for popularity reasons and cool points. That's not cute.
On another quick note, I don't like it at all when whites use the N word--whether they say it naturally or not. Hell, I don't like it when black people use it! I wouldn't just go around calling people a derogatory term. It's just uncouth to me.

As for these teeny boppers (as I like to call them) such as Nsync, Christina, etc, it's true that they have black choreographers and others that are helping their careers. In fact, Nsync's choreographer came up w/ them when they won one of their VMAs. He's the guy on the Soul Food series. Anyway, I think for them, if that's something that they grew up doing (i.e. dancing and listening to black artists, etc) then naturally, they will probably try to imitate that. It's just like Brandy wanting to imitate Whitney. She went on and on about Whitney being her idol when she got in the biz and you can tell that she tries to imitate her style and such.

I don't know. I personally enjoyed Nsync's performance. They obviously worked hard cuz them boys were on point! I've never seen white people dance that well before. They were on beat and they got their gig on! I feel like hey, they were at least doing it right. But if they were butterflying or whatever and were all off beat, then I'd be like "why try to do it and not do it right?" http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

sorry this is long. I hope that all made some kind of sense http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited September 09, 2000).]

DoggyStyle82 I like your "to the point" comment, and I am starting to see both sides of the picture here. Thanks

This is all so very simple...

White people don't want anything to do with us, but want our finese and ability to create new trends. You see it in greek life when you see white people stepping, in music when people like Dizzy Spears, Nstink, and 99 disease, try to copy and do movement and gestures originated by us. If I see another white person say "don't do there..." I will absolutely scream!!! (LOL!!!) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I don't see any cease to the trend in the forseable future. I cant understand why they can't be original. I agree with the ideology of the movie "Black and White" that white people are almost parasidic (I hope I spelled that right) in nature that they take from other ethnicites culture and use whatever the have to their means. Now this may sound as if I have a problem with white people which I don't, I am just stating a truth. They take us away from our culture and basically rob us of our roots with slavery, and when we
(as Black people and as ethnic minorities)
try to salvage what we have through new trend and traditions, all they do is copy from us... excuse men for being a little long winded but this is a subject that is near and dear to me... BE YOURSELF!!!


[This message has been edited by Diva_56 (edited September 11, 2000).]

I don't usually reply, but Dive_56 hit it on the head.

I, too, am tired of fakes. Where I work, there only 3 African-Americans. I am tired of white boys calling me bro, trying to rap when they see me in the vicinity, asking me about the latest master p video (yeah master p, what are they talking about.) Because of my position, I chill and answer in a dignified, courteous manner at the same time letting them know that they need to be who they are. True, they are some whites who grew up in urban areas and have truly adopted the culture. But, 98% are fakers.
Eminem has mad skills.

My thing is how is it "our" thing? Where you a patented member in copyrighting the dance of the butterfly? How do you even know that a "black" person first choreographed the butterfly? I'm not writing to nick pick at that though. My thing is what about some of the ignorant comments made by the hosts, Shaun and Marlon Winans. Did you have anything against the constant bringing up of the "White" and "Black" cultural differences? I like the Winans but there is a time and place for everything and I feel that the awards was not the time nor place to exhibit such unprofessional slurs regarduing each individuals racial aspects. Who cares if they want to be known as "hotboys?"

But to get to my point I can understand how you might feel, but some things you just have to ignore. Cause I know I was like look at them trying to have the dancers like in the black videos. But I didn't make a big ordeal out of it. I must say I am happy that they show there appreciation for the things that our culture does by including certain specifics in there show.

It's all in a matter of how they do things. If they come at you in a professional manner then you can accept them doing those things, but if they come at you like they have a problem, then it needs to be corrected. I go to a predominately white school and for most of them they do these things to let you know that they have nothing against our people.

Wayans, the Winans are gospel singers.

Poor Codeblue_R3

Winans or Wayans,

It doesn't matter huh, we all look alike anyway.

yall crack me up http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif anyway the butterfly i believe is a carribean dance and i know didn't no white carribean come up with the butterfly http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif yeah everyone imitates everyone else, whites think we are trying to be like them when we relax our hair, or speak properly, or play golf, etc. are we? i think some of us just desire to do those things, like some of them desire to do things we may have come up with. it shouldn't be a big deal, i think if there was more racial unity at the core of america then no one would care, but with the subtle sometimes blatant racism still lingering around then its hard for us to see their imitation as flattery vs stealing.

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited September 19, 2000).]

LOL @ mizzkes, mojo, & PositivelyAKA!!!

Hello All! I can see all sides of this topic but I think that imitation isn't always a flattering thing. I say just be yourself. What is up with white kids working overtime to lock their hair? That isn't even a part of their culture! We do, say or wear something and they turn their noses up. Some white "star" does it or says it and all of a sudden it's validated. They created it. I would be flattered if credit was given but it's not. I don't appreciate being monkeyed.

Amen Jade

I know I'm late with this response but there is a flip side to this topic. Many of our Hip-Hop and R&B artists are spicing their music with a Latin flavor. Some examples: Lil Kim, Jay Z, Sisqo, Jill Scott and many others. The Latino community could easily say our people are stealing from them. Just something to think about.

We get all up in arms when people say that ALL black people say this, or act like this, but we are doing the same thing to white people. Who's to say that whatever lingo that the HUMAN is speaking might not be "themself"? It seems that they are the ones being prejudged by the color of their skin. If anyone finds it odd that I use the word "dude" then screw them. That's me. Always has been. Just as often I use the term "bro" so does this mean that I am being phoney? Not at all. That is me and if someone can not deal with that then they have their own issues that need to be resolved. The same applies to all humans no matter what race they may be.

Hey Meeks, that's pretty funny because that's how I am. I go to Bucknell University, which has about 120 black students. My whole closet is like the Gap, American Eagle, with some A&F (not too much though, nicca kinda broke) But it's funny, i didn't start wearing that stuff til i went to school. See what the white schools do to us??

Shoutouts to all my black sistas attending predominantly white institutions!! Keep holdin it down!

Alexis
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
#1 Braveheart
SOLO
Rho Iota, Spring 2001
OOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!!



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Determined
Solo
Tenacious
Assertive
Creative
Essence

Girl I hear you and now they have gone and built a Banana Republic in our mall too? I'm going to have to get another job support my habit. lol

hey I say "dude" just like a WG lol. I shop at the GAP, Abercromie & Fitch, and American Eagle just like them... But hey thats what I grew up around....and going to a majority Caucasion institution like the one I am attending thats what I am still around. Oh well...


[This message has been edited by meeks (edited May 20, 2001).]

Dude, I work at Abercrombie. If you need a discount when you're in NYC I can hook a sista up. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

I guess my only concern is when White folx take elements that have long been part of Black culture (even when it was considered 2nd class because is was a 'black' thing) and turn them around (read 'whiten' or 'eurocentricize', make more 'acceptabe' to mainstream society) them and make a larger profit off of it than we ever could. Where I grew up, (Germany) jazz was made, produced, and bought by primarily European people. Of course Black folx will always suppport jazz, but when you look the world over, jazz has evolved into something enjoyed, and financially supported, and owned by White people.

The difference with Blacks sampling Latin culture is that Latinos have traditionally been in control of their music, culture, language, style of dress, etc. It is a rare thing to see elements of Black culture go mainstream unless they have been remade by White celebrity. I think sampling elements of culture in general is indeed a form of flattery. The insult comes in when the originator of the element receives no recognition for it, or when it is only 'acceptable' when the dominant society re-makes it and says "ok, now it's alright".

Me and you might have to have a TALK Soror, lol. That is my store!

Ain't nothin wrong with being preppy!

There were so many good things said on this topic, I think that the range of my felings was covered. THe ONLY thing I don't understand is how any of you proud black folks can call anyone else a nikka! I do NOT like it when anyone white or black uses the word. How can you call yourself a word that has been used to downgrade and demean our people for centuries??? Forget cultural reclamation, that is just point blank not right.

OneSavyDiva and Nupe4life,

I see yall's point. I get bothered when they pick up on something WE create, rename it, and then claim it as if it's their own invention. They do this in every form of art, and in the garment industry as well. From Michelangelo to N Sync, they just steal, steal, steal. And they call US thieves!

Various cultures do adapt to each other in this society. If you have putative integration, it is bound to happen. Note I said culture, not social relations.
Take jazz, for example. I believe that jazz originated with African Americans in New Orleans, but it's changed and mutated over the years, depending on the practitioners.
For instance, on the West Coast, you saw something called West Coast Jazz played by white musicians such as Gerry Mulligan and Dave Brubeck. That had black ancestry, however -- Miles Davis originated the "Birth of the Cool" band in 1949-50. By the way, sublime music. I urge y'all to buy it.
You also had Hard Bop, popularized by African American musicians like Davis, Art Blakey, Horace Silver. Some forms of jazz were developed by blacks, others from white. I listen to various styles, but loathe fusion and Dixieland.
To Soror lovelyivy84 -- I agree with your point about n**** or various derivatives. We don't need to attack ourselves. Also, I cracked up about the clothing comments. Being close to 40, these days I'm wearing classic Talbots, Ellen Tracy and Dana Buchman, when I can get them on sale. Misses for the top, plus for the bottom, lol.

What is it that "they" steal? Is it fashion, music, culture, style? Or is it like most American culture, where people assimilate something from a sub-culture and overlap it with their native cultural styles. For instance, the Seattle grunge look pre-dated the wearing of baggy clothes and Timberlands by AA youth. The baggy look is actually an out-growth of clothes worn in the prison system. Is this prison culture to be claimed?. Is Lenny Kravitz stealing his style?. The acoustic folk music of India Arie, Macy Gray, Jill Scott, Erykah Badu etc, are they stealing from Liz Phair, Sarah McLaughlin, Joni Mitchell, Bonnie Raitt etc by emphasizng intelligent lyrics and musical dexterity over the trite canned beats and stunted intellect of most of today's so-called R&B?. Most of these artists were influenced by white artists as much as Black. In American Culture, we all borrow from one another and adapt it to our subset. No one culture has a patent on its culture in a Multi-cultural society.