Line Caps?
 

I was just being nosey in another forum and the issue was large lines...someone had posted that a/an university(ies) can put a limit on the number of persons placed on that "line". I am kind of confused. I have not been an undergrad since 93, so I am thinking how can the university decide how many members you can bring in? I could possibly handle the ORGANIZATION as a whole(national or regional) deciding how many members that could be brought in at one time, but not the university. I don't know... can someone help me out here? I am confused. Do you all feel where I am coming from?

I haven't heard of universities putting a limit on the number of people inititated into a particular organization. However, I suppose the organization or the chapter may place a limit on the number of people they choose to initiate on a particular line. If a chapter does it, then their constitution would need to be amended to reflect the change.

Exactly, Soror. Why would the university have to get involved? I read that Hampton has a cap on all of the sororities and fraternities. If the sororities or fraternities wanted to place a cap on the number of members it accepts at one time, then that should be an issue for that org, not the university.

Question: What do you think of lines of 200+? I was on another AKA sister site and I saw that a school brought in a line in '98 with that amount of sorors. I am from a big city (in the North, of course) and we sure don't see numbers like that.... can any Soror speak up and tell me how that is (i.e. how it feels, how one gets to know their sands?
If we discussed this already I apologize, I have been out of it lately!

Sisterly

Whoa! I've never heard of a line with 200+, but I know of lines with 100+. When I attended my first regional, I saw sorors with those numbers on their jackets and shirts. I don't know how they do it, but if they know as much or more as I learned then my hat goes off to them because that is definitely no small task to accomplish.

Soror, you could be talking about an undergraduate chapter in my region. They took in 200 or 201. BUT there was an ISSUE there. TRUST ME. I will email you with the details I was told. We did not have 100 or more on our line, but it was not the traditional 10, 20, or 30.

Soror AKAtude, it is true, if they know their information and are working towards the goals of Alpha Kappa Alpha, then that is all that is important.

I'll keep it real. If a line of any where near 100 or more tried to call me bro. I would not have anything to do with it. If you don't pledge you are not real. I know AKA's are not APHIA but the same rules apply.
Roc'

Hello to the ladies of AKA. I'm browsing through your room again and came upon this topic. It's similar to one in the Delta room. I was okay with the topic until I read a reply post by Roc. Roc how can you say that you wouldn't call someone with the number 100+ on their back your brother? Even though I'm not a member of APHIA, I have mad respect for your organization. I do believe that APHIA teaches brotherhood. If a frat/sorority takes in 100+ it's not the fault of the pledges on line. One cannot help how they come into an organization. I've said this time and time again, pledging does not make one a better member. Do you think your founders pledged? I don't think any of the founders of any organization pledged. Saying things like "you're not real unless you pledge" is just plain out backwards. As long as a person is explemfying the principles of their organizations and working toward the goals of that organization, it doesn't matter how they come in. Isn't that why people join greek organizations anyway? I would hope you didn't join APHIA just to pledge. If you did then you didn't it for the wrong reasons.And what happened to that "06-08 Love" your frat always touting. I've heard of other greeks make statements about what they think they know about the AKA process but when I hear frat doing it, it puzzles me. In closing, in the immortal words of Laurence Fishburne "Wake Up"!


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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

Greetings my Pan Hellenic Sorors,

I bring you greetings from Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. Hope all is well with you ladies.

If you all have ever visited our forum and read any of my posts you know that I'm pretty straight forward. But my response is to the caps placed by universities. I currently work in higher education and it is true that caps can be placed by the university. Most of the time is a collaborative effort between student services and the Pan.

Another thing depends on how ACTIVE your campus Pan Hellenic Council is. Some campuses don't realize how powerful that organization is. One day I hope to serve on the NPHC as an officer and I'm currently working towards that goal. But I'm digressing here....but YES some universities can and will place caps just as some universities will raise the GPA requirements in order for the organization to be active.

I would give you a list of schools that do that but you'll be surprised that it's a pretty long list.

Be Blessed You All.

DirectorDST

Nupe 4 life,
First of all You know nothing about my founders so with all due respect don't even think that you can speculate their methods of foundation! But let's not bring this potential drama to the lovely ladies of AKA and their intelligent conversation room. Let's hook up in the Ice Cold Layer of the Frozen Tundra. Join me in the ALPHA forum and we will discuss this further. I would like to apologize to my sorors for interrupting your flow.

Dex
15BA-SP94

I apologize to the lovely ladies of AKA if I started some mess in here. I was just voicing my opinion.

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

I know of some universities in South Central that do indeed cap their lines. I have heard that legacies are included in the cap, and can reduce the number of non-legacies that are able to be selected. I believe that I know what chapter you are talking about that had 200 or so candidates on a line.

Soror, pleas email me a list of the chapters in the South Central region that has these caps. I am in the region, have always been. Too, I have not been an undergrad since 93, so alot of things have changed and are changing. VAW55@aol.com. Things are sooooo different now!

Hello Sorors and Sisterfriends,

There are some schools that are placed under a cap because of administration. My school has a cap for all greeks. Being that I am a neo I really don't know why the cap was installed, but it has been there since I was a freshman and probably before that.

Each organization has the right to take all 50 (lets say the cap was 50) or they can take under that amount, it just depends on how many members they already have.

Have a blessed day and evening

It is true. Hampton has a cap of 75 for all sororities and fraternities. I don't know what year or why the administration put the cap on, but it stands to this day.

[This message has been edited by 1Babygirl2000 (edited July 07, 2000).]

Does anyone know the enrollment status of the colleges and universities that have placed caps on the greek system? I'm just wondering if it is larger schools or a mix of large and small populations. Also, does anyone know whether or not more private institutions tend to install caps rather than public colleges and universities?

I attend a large HBCU that put a cap on lines in '97. Even before the cap the lines never got bigger than 50 so I dont really understand having lines of 100+ but that's another story. There can only be 40 to a line. The school has a say so over greek orgs on campus since we are a black school and this is the only greek system on campus. When I went to a white college there were no rules for black greeks but of course the white greeks had rules they had to follow set forth by the school so the situation is similar. The school has a say so over greek orgs on my campus. I heard the cap was put on as a way for organizations be more selective. At first I didn't get it but now I do. Someone asked me, "Would you want to be on line with 300 women?" My answer is no! To have an EXTREMELY large line defeats the whole purpose of bonding and being in a frat/sorority. You don't want just anyone to be able to join. I'm not judging anyone's chapter based on how many people they put on line because every situation is different. However, it concerns me now since there is a legacy clause and only 40 women are allowed on a line. Believe me, it makes it VERY difficult to make line for a non-legacy.

And believe me, not all legacies make line because I've seen that happen as well. However, I asked those questions earlier because I was thinking that mostly private and/or HBCUs installed caps. That is why if someone can provide the statistics, I would be really interested in reviewing them.

Hello,
My school has a cap of I think about 40 but with respect to the legacies I just want to know what happens when people non-legacy are turned away because the line is capped. I guess what I'm asking is why would a person who is legacy be chosen over someone who is "more qualified." I am in no way saying that someone who is legacy is not qualified but if someone's GPA is higher, their community service is more extensive and they are a better all around person than the legacy, why would the legacy be chosen first. I thought the goal for the organization is to aquire people that will further advance the status of the organization. If vaild and highly qualified people are turned away because of someone else's family status doesn't that hinder the organization and its possibilities for the future?

As my sorors and I have stated before, there are certain issues regarding the legacy issue that non-members are unaware of. Because the circumstances surrounding that is a sorority issue, it will not be discussed with you.

Legacies must also meet the same criteria as non-legacies. Just because someone may have a higher GPA or more community service than a legacy is no guarantee that they will make a better AKA. Someone can have a 4.0 gpa and hours of community service and get in the sorority and don't do a thing except sport 'nalia. Then again, someone with a 2.5 and some community service will get in the organization and work with every once of their being to become the best AKA a chapter has ever seen. So, please don't question our
voting procedure.

If anyone feels hindered by the caps placed by your respective college or university, then I urge you to share with the forum ideas of how the caps may be lifted, if feasible. I don't know what the atmosphere is like on everyone's individual campus, but at my college students were quick to let the administration know if there was a policy they would tolerate. So, I couldn't see this happening at my alma mater. If they tried to do such a thing, I would certainly let my opinion be known via alumni network.




[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited July 11, 2000).]

I am sorry if I offended anyone I was just asking a question. I was in no way questioning the organizations voting procedures I just wanted to know but since that information is not shared I appreciate you telling me.



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Respectfully Hopeful

So no one knows why the caps are there? I know my school has one. Someone told me it had something to do with the campus population being affected while students are "pledging" but I don't know if there is any validity in this.



[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited July 11, 2000).]

Exactly, pop. I don't see why the UNIVERSITY has to get into the business of the organization on the NUMBERS they bring in at a time. When I was in school, the university only got involved if there was a case of a serious matter, like serious beat downs, etc. But the administration would not place a limit on the numbers a chapter brought in. I wonder if it had to do with the fact that most of our presidents were Greek and had pledged at the school. Don't know...still perplexed on this issue.

Ok. I ventured into the chat room for this forum and asked the members there why there was a cap. I was then given the "It's not for you to know now if you can't find out" response. That's fine, but it gives me two questions:


1. Is this a touchy subject that sisterfriends should stay away from? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

IF NOT....


2. Usually such a response is given when a question is asked about AKA BUSINESS. Now, does a cap have to do more with the school's rules or the sorority's rules?


Thanks!!

Poplife,

I'm trying to find out why there are caps myself. When I was in college (and that was four years ago now), the issue of limiting lines never came up. I suppose things are done differently at various colleges for a reason. I would certainly like to know the real reason behind it.

Soror PositivelyAKA,

If a chapter sets a limit or a cap for their lines, then I agree that is strictly sorority business. However, where I disagree is if the cap is imposed by the university and the greek system or student body is against it. Then, I feel that it is an issue beyond sorority business. Those caps effect the students on that particular campus who desire to be a part of a sorority/fraternity, and the sorority/fraternity memebers' hands are tied.

I'm going to guess that caps are put in place by universities in the same spirit as universities (Dartmouth being the most recent harsh example) regulating and sometimes punishing GLOs regarding alcohol, housing and other issues. If an organization is housed at a school or takes school money for any reason or the school is part of the chapter's charter, then the school has a right to regulate the actions/policies of that chapter.

I'm going to also guess that caps are more of a concern at very large public universities or HBCUs whose students have had tremendous interest in GLOs. With the elimination of pledging, lines seem to have gotten larger and larger, and caps MAY (don't know this for sure) be a way to deal with that issue (not sure why the university would be concerned, but just guessing). Btw, does anyone know of lines of 30+ before 1990?

DG you are correct. caps are not an issue for BGLO's that consistently have small lines say at predominately white universities. But for HBCU's there is a need to establish limits due to the larger # of interested persons. Even before 1990 HBCU's have had larger lines then white universities and it has increased tremendously due to new policies set by NPHC.

AKAtude universities get involved because they are responsible to a degree for the organizations and happenings that they allow on their campuses. If they have experienced problems and feel caps will eliminate them then it is their right to do so (although the chapter and students may not like it http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif ). After all they do allow us to have sororities and fraternities on campus, it is a priviledge not a right and not all schools allow them. Allow meaning if the campus doesn't want sororities or fraternities on campus they can ban them, its their right whether we like it or not (unless there is a law giving us soro/frat protection now http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif , their main concern is education. just like they can set the guideline for gpa requirements if they so choose.

I think we need to be clear on the issue of caps. If the sorority's governing body or nationals is also in agreement with the caps set up by a university then students must accept it and work that much harder to make themselves the most desirable candidates so that they will be one of the chosen few. Nothing is done under a rock i'm sure the sorority national body has a say in this type of decision and if they are against a cap policy then that is one thing and i'm sure they have the resources to deal with unfavorable university policies.

I'm not saying its fair to students i do feel for them, it makes the competition more fierce, but it is life. However the reasons why a sorority would agree to line caps even outside of university policy in my OPINION is simply NOT the affairs of non sorority members (although it may interest them and appear relevant to them at the time), just like non sorority members do not determine the process by which they come into the sorority, that is up to the chapter and her governing body. Think about it, if there is no line cap at some schools whether written or implied and every one that attends rush qualifies etc. etc. then should all 400 girls make line? a line cap simply says only this # of women can make line per semester etc., is that really a bad idea or is that just the sorority and the university looking out for future line sisters with reference to the intimate bond of sisterhood that they will have the opportunity to share as a result.

So if you want to know why the university has a line cap, then go ask them.
If you want to know why my sorority or chapter has one then, i can't help you
just my 1908 cents on the issue http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited July 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited July 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited July 12, 2000).]

Soror PositivelyAKA,


Now, I can agree with that!

To answer DG's question about lines over 30 prior to 1990 the answer is yes. I attended a HBCU in the mid-late 80s and it was not uncommon to see lines of 30, 40, 50 plus. Over 50 was consider to be a 'huge' line and 20 - 30 was 'average'. Teas (which is what we called rushes back then) typically had 200 - 300 people.

There was a discussion about line caps/legacy 'slots' (which I am not EVEN trying to touch) in another forum and I repeated what a friend said to me when I was complaining about a company recuiting for 2 positions and the number of candidates they had. She said how many jobs do you want? I said of course I only wanted 1 and she replied, "Then why are you complaining? They have 2 jobs and you only want 1!" It was at that moment that I stopped focusing on those things that I had no control over (the number of jobs, the number of candidates) and started focusing on those things that I did have control over (my resume, interview, etc.) I say the same thing for prospectives...doesn't matter if the sorority can or will bring in only a limited number of candidates. Make it your business to be the top candidate so that if they only bring in 1 you will be that one!

PositivelyAKA that was very well said!!

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#1 Baby Girl
Spr. 2000
Alaska Alumnae

Poplife in all fairness if a soror of AKA or any sorority is not willing or is not able for whatever reason to share the specifics of her sororities business then would it not make sense as a non member to respect that and leave the issue alone. Yes since the caps involve the sorority it is sorority business and sorority business should be left as that. It is most annoying when people almost beg for information when it is not necessary for them to know. A cap as we all know is a limit. Universities do have the power to set limits on sororities and fraternities if they feel it will better promote education which is theirs and our main purpose and or it will prevent social challenges on their campus. Why a sorority would establish caps is entirely sorority business so i won't go into that.

Well said, Eclipse.

I agree Very Well said Eclipse.

Market yourself and control what 'YOU' can and the rest is left up to the powers that be! There should not be too many more questions about 'Line Caps' after that.

Ok ok. As curious/paranoid as I am, I have to calm down and agree with Eclipse. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

I know this one is really old but how do you guys feel about this issue a year later?

at my school, the university stipulates that any fraternity or sorority cannot take more than 40 members at a time. i don't know why but that's the way it is

Go for it.Everybody I have talked to would have loved to make a line of one hundred or more.Imagine the financial gain for a chapter that makes this many people every year.I applaud them and wish I had been able to be a part of taking in this amount of new members at one time.People talk about the bond that you develope with your line brother or sisiters,well the bonds that I developed was with the brothers in the chapter who were made before and after me,as wall as my line brothers.I know that I'm the kind of brother who would have made it my business to get to know all members of the fraternity.Especially today in this atmophere of non-pledging,non hazing every chapter should be making line in the twenties and thirties.Remember membership means money,money means everything.Get off your high horses and quit lying about how many you wouldn't make at one time.I would rather see a line of 100 than to go on some of these chapters where there are only three or four brothers.I would love to hear from some brothers with double digit numbers on their shirts,instead of the anchor being number three.
And as far as that closed thread,there are some sororities who will never have the opportunity to make very large lines.If your sorority is that popular and attractive that you can make a line of three hundred "Go for it".

It has its advantages and disadvantages. First of all, most chapters I know don't know 300 girls well enough to put them all on one line. 50 is more realistic especially if you go to a large black school like me. On my campus we have a cap of 40 and as of recent years it has caused some controversy. It makes chapters more selective but then again it makes it hard for "certain" interested girls to get a spot especially as far as Alpha Kappa Alpha is concerned.

I don't want to offend anybody, but I thought Sororities are supposed to be exclusive and highly selective. Having a line of 100+ does not sound selective to me. Even if you have over 100 applications, I thought the purpose was to have a bond with your linesisters and overall chapter. How could one bond with 99 other women on campus? Like I said I don't want to offend anybody, but it doesnt make sense to me.