How much turbulence can an airplane handle before you're in...uh...."trouble"?
 

Paging AlphaSigOU who demonstrated his expertise here.....

I fly probably 6-8 times per year and I have to say, in the past 3 years, I have become a much more nervous traveller, particulary when the airplane hits turbulence. (I think it has something to do with some 20/20 or NBC Dateline episode that I saw on turbulence and now I am terrified)......

My question is:
How much turbulence can an airplane handle before the plane that you're on, is "in trouble"?
I have asked this of friends, and I have heard responses, ranging from "A helluva lot" to "Airplanes can fly through hurricanes". I need a bit more than a layman's response.....
I would like the truth, because when I fly, I always want to ask the flight crew, but I always chicken out of asking them (I am kind of superstitious that way too, as though posing such a question while airborne will be bad luck).

Please and thank you. :)

CutiePie -

I have NO expertise in this. But I do have a friend who was a flight attendant. I told her of my turbulance fears as well and she said, "Just look at the flight attendants' faces. They are used to major turbulance. If you see them looking a little worried, making glances at one another, or stopping what they are doing to start doing something you don't normally see, that's when you should worry."

I've seen this in action. I had one of those flights where the bumps made pretty big drops, and all the passengers sort of looked at each other and grabbed armrests, but the flight attendants kept right on working as if nothing had happened.

Of course, this doesn't answer your question as far as the plane's structural integrity or anything, but it might help your fears a little! :)

Commercial aircraft can take quite a bit of turbulence without encountering structural failure, unless the pilot has a death wish and wants to play 'punch the core of a severe thunderstorm'.

Aircraft are designed to flex somewhat to manage stresses; the most obvious is seen when the wingtips flex. If they couldn't do so, the plane would break apart. I've seen film of a Boeing 777's wing being tested to destruction - it took nearly 150% above the maximum structural wing load before the wing's spar snapped from the stress. Before the wing broke, the tip was bent nearly fifteen feet above the normal position for a 777.

While most episodes of turbulence are quite mild, the best solution is to always keep your seat belt on while seated.

Huh?
 

What's a seat belt? :confused:

Re: Huh?
 

You know that thing they demonstrate and say "Insert the metal tip into the buckle".... Now that's a complicated mechanism that needs detailed instruction....

okay, so chuck - how common is it that a plane would actually drop (say 30+ feet, i don't know) when hitting minor to moderate turbulance? i am terrified of turbulence because i am always scared that my plane is going to drop..

i've been in weather situations flying where the pilot has made the flight attendants sit down and frankly thats scary.

ive been on a plane where the flight attendants flew up into the air and fell in the floor -- 99% of the people on board were screaming their heads off -- luckily it was right after takeoff and the seatbelt signs were still on.

I think it's pretty safe to say that hearing the pilot say, "Uh, oh!" is definitely not a good sign!

Seriously, unless you're doing something that you cannot do with your seat belt on, it certainly won't hurt you to keep it on.

That sounds like fun. Just like a roller coaster ride. :D

Thanks all who replied. Okay, PART TWO:

How bad does it have to get (the weather conditions and/or turbulence, etc.) before the pilot can no longer maintain control of the plane?
Because when we hit those air pockets and the plane momentarily drops...it freaks me out!

thats what im talking about! the mere thought of it freaks me out and everytime i fly (which has been frequently recently) and we hit even minor turbulence i'm convinced thats going to happen...

Okay I'm supposed to be flying home in 2 weeks, and ya'll are scaring me! It's been a little over a year since I flew and when I did last I SWEAR something happened to that plane. The flight attendants were all giving each other those looks you mentioned and we had to circle in the landing pattern (or whatever) for another 30 minutes for some reason.

Re: How much turbulence can an airplane handle before you're in...uh...."trouble"?
 

I'm totally the same way! I used to love flying, had no problem w/ turbulence, etc.. but a few years ago I became soo scared of flying because of turbulence (this was pre-9/11, so wasn't fear of highjacking)... I dunno why it happened, but it seemed to be sudden- maybe we saw the same program, lol

It would have to be a pretty severe storm for a pilot to lose control of an aircraft; all commercial aircraft are equipped with weather radar. With the assistance of radar and air traffic control, pilots will skirt most of the nasty weather. If the weather is bad at the origin or the destination airport, the flight will be grounded at its departure point or divert to an alternate airport until the storm passes.

Many major airports are equipped with LLWAS (Low Level Windshear Alert System), which detects wind shear from storms near the airport. The crash of Delta 191 nearly 20 years ago in DFW was caused by windshear from a severe storm near the airport. A 'microburst' (a severe downdraft) forced the aircraft down on approach to DFW.

Pilots are professionals and responsible enough to avoid getting themselves and their passengers into a weather situation they have no control over.

And that was a collision between two planes: KLM 747-206B PH-BUF The Rhine/Rijn and Pan Am 747-121 N736PA Clipper Victor. All were lost on the KLM plane, all but about 20 (don't have the exact number) were lost on the Pan Am aircraft, for a total of 583 killed.

The worst single-plane aircraft accident was a Japan Air Lines 747-SR46; all but three of the 500+ passengers aboard were killed when the aft pressure bulkhead failed (from an improperly-performed patch repair) and damaged the tail section. (It's quite common to see 747s used as giant flying shuttle buses in Japan.)

Useless airline trivia time: N736PA was the first 747 flown in commercial revenue flight in 1970. It was supposed to have been N747PA Clipper America, but a mechanical malfunction grounded the latter aircraft.

Sure am glad I didn't read this yesterday when my daughter was flying!

Flying used to be so much fun.

I was not always a nervous flier.....

I think this fear comes from the fact that I flew Alaska Airlines about a week after they had that accident on January 31, 2000.
(The aircraft was on a flight from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico to San Francisco, California). The plane I was on was the same model as the one that plunged into the sea (the tail stabilizer was the problem with that fated flight).

With the subdued (not sombre, just subdued) mood of the Cabin Crew and the fact that they were all wearing pale blue "memorial ribbons", it was a very sobering experience and I think it scarred me for life permanently regarding flying. With our meal, we even received a "prayer card" that quoted a Psalm and had a pastoral looking photograph, if I remember correctly.

It was a Seattle crew that died, and since I was flying out of Sea-Tac airport, there was signage all over the place, with details of the public memorial service for the crew, etc.

Re: Re: How much turbulence can an airplane handle before you're in...uh...."trouble"?
 

that's exactly what happened to me! i can[t figure out why either, especally since i have been going on planes since i was less than a year old and never had any problems with flying.

Ok so, to recap:
I too am incredibly freaked out by turbulence. Are we saying that moderate bumps and shaking from side to side is no reason to worry? My blood pressure goes up like 899% whenever the plane moves but then I'm like, JULES, you're in the freakin' air...what do you expect???

The slightest bump on a plane will give me a panic attack. The worst is flying over the Rocky Mountains because the air is so unstable.
When I went to San Diego for spring break, my boyfriend and I took one of those puddle jumpers (propeller planes) from Los Angeles to San Diego. There were huge storm clouds and we were in this tiny little plane that kept bobbing up and down through out the whole 45 minute flight. My boyfriend somehow slept through it all while I clutched onto the sides of my seat and just tried to think of happy thoughts.

You said it sistah!

I know that airline passengers are discouraged in magazine articles, etc. from having a boozy drink on flights (because they make you dehydrated, the effects are more potent when flying, blah blah), but sometimes, their "numbing effect" is just the ticket.;)

Wife is flying today.

I still enjoy flying, but the amount of time spent due to security, etc. at the airport has become a real drag. Not that I don't appreciate it and think it's necessary, but it's still a huge waste of productivity.

The only time I've ever gotten nervous due to turbulence was on a 747 into LAX. We were seated in the upstaris First Class cabin, and it was so bumpy the flight attendent really did look worried. My concern wasn't for the structural integrity of the aircraft, though, but the potential wind effect on the actual landing. By far the majority of aircraft accidents happen during takeoff and landing.

This thread is so great for me because I feel like such a freak for being scared. I used to fly all the time without a problem, but now I cannot get on a plane. This started before 9-11 too. It's annoying because I have to drive or take a train to go everywhere, and I'm skipping a trip to CA this summer because it's too far for the train, and I just can't get myself onto a plane. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one afraid. If I get the courage, I'm going to start dealing with this soon. My doctor suggested going to relaxation courses so I can control my fears leading up to the flight, and then just taking valium the night before and during the flight. Has anyone taken valium before to relax them?

My aunt use to take qualudes (sp?) before getting on a plane. Now she takes valium. She just sleeps through the whole flight or else she'd be having an anxiety attack.

My parents visited Hawaii not too long after that incident occurred and landed at the same airport where the plane was being kept. It was on the tarmac and the roof was gaping open. Pretty scary sight to see as you're landing! :eek:

Along the same lines, but a little more upclose and personal.

There was a DC-9 (Continental 1714) crash at the old Denver Airport (Stapleton) a few years ago, which I helped cover for the TV stations I worked for at the time, and also for NBC. It was a different kind of crash, in that there were still large parts of the plane in tact and had been little fire. In fact, there were actually a few survivors. Also, strangely, we were allowed within about 100 feet of the crash site.

Two days later my whole family and I took off on a parallel runway for a Disney World vacation. The wreckage was still there. I didn't point that out to the family.

Hey guys! I can totally relate to this thread since I've flown a grand total of 5 times in the past month, twice over the Atlantic. We hit turbulence going, which freaked me out, but honestly it wasn't as "turbulent" as I expected. The coolest thing (to me) about flying is the takeoff in a 50 passenger plane. You feel EVERYTHING and it's such a rush!! :) On the way to Egypt I looked out the window and saw the Alps. It was so beautiful. I'm such a fan of flying now. I honestly have no idea why people are so scared. The odds of a fatal airline crash are definitely in the traveler's favor. Much more so than driving.

The worst is when your seat is at the abosolute back row. You get to feel everything and then some. Especially during the landing. I enjoy flying a lot. I've gotten some good pattern I follow when I fly long distance. That is, I always bring sleeping pills. After dinner, I take it and dream away.

I'm usually asleep before we reach the threshold of the active runway before taking off.

Often, I wake up for drinks, read a while and then go to sleep again and wake up on descent.

I did sleep almost an entire Heathrow to O'Hare leg once. Those Business Class seats can be pretty comfy.

I bet you're one of those guys that always nudges me and wants to talk on flights.

-Rudey
--The only time that was cool was going to the world series when the entire back section was going and the flight attendants didn't care how much people were drinking.

I am glad to see that I am not the only person either. I too, you used to be ok flying and are now SCARED TO DEATH - at it was before 9/11.

I must have seen said program too *lol* becasue since about 95, in order to step on a plane, I MUST have a valium (I've upgraded to Xanax now ;) ). I have even skipped on things due to the fact that the flight was 4 hours. :(

Okay, I realize that the chances of being in a car accident in your life are pretty high vs. an air accident. Simple reason: more cars on the road, we ride in cars more often in our day to day lives, etc. Great. Understood.

That may be, but if you are in a car crash, you will likely survive if you are wearing your seat belt. (don't know where people get the idea of getting thrown clear is a good idea....umm..there's a glass windshield in the way...shakes head....

If you are in plane crash....well, if the plane is in pieces, chances are that you will be too.

Discuss....

Good point Cutiepie, but...think of all the security measures taken for airplanes vs. cars. Maybe it's because I've been in 3 accidents in cars, but I feel so much safer flying. But yeah, the thought of falling a few miles down to the ground does give me the willies.

you know, i've tried to tell myself this exact thing..and it calms me momentarily..then i remember that when you don't drive at 30,000 feet and if you lost control hitting a pothole you wouldn't fall out of the sky.

Wrong. Generally don't speak on plane unless spoken to. Always have a book to read.

I bet you're that one guy who can never get a grip on his drink and spills all over himself and just enough on the person next to him to ruin his flight.

-Rudey
--You are him!

In case you guys were wondering, here's my routine for every takeoff and landing:

If you're in the window seat, you can estimate a good guess of the takeoff roll just by looking out the window. As the aircraft speeds down the runway, note the large numeral signs on the edge, usually on the left side. (Not the ones painted on the runway - that's the runway heading!) Each one is placed 1000 feet apart and tells the captain at a glance how many feet remain to the end of the runway. Most aircraft will lift off the ground using only about half the distance of the runway or less.

Pilots during takeoff recite these mandatory calls during the takeoff roll:

'80 knots' - The minimum speed at which the flight controls become effective; nosewheel steering deactivates.

'V-one' - The decision speed. Beyond this point, the aircraft must take off, since there's not enough runway left to stop.

'Rotate' - The aircraft begins to raise the nose and take flight.

'Positive rate, gear up' - Once a positive rate of climb is established, the landing gear is raised and climb speed is established.

Another good way to check distances is by looking at the runway markings - each one is placed 500 feet apart. The solid rectangular block is called the touchdown point, and is the desired place for aircraft to land.

And I'm also a certifiable airplane geek - I log my flights in a pilot's logbook! :)

:confused:
I've never been on an aircraft and heard the pilot say any of that stuff. Every takeoff that I've experienced has been done in (relative) silence.

My bad... shoulda been a little clearer. You'll only hear those calls inside the flight deck, not in the cabin. Or if you happen to be sitting next to me... ;)

If you fly on United Airlines, audio channel 9 in the inflight entertainment system usually carries air-to-ground radio transmissions between the cockpit and air traffic control. However, this is turned on only at the captain's discretion. Most usually do leave Channel 9 on.

Memorable experience on United... three years ago, coming back from a business trip, the flight home from Denver to Tulsa was on a very stormy night; severe thunderstorms pounded Tulsa International Airport. I listened on Channel 9 as the flight crew and ATC worked their way around the line of storms. The ILS (Instrument Landing System) for Runway 18L at Tulsa was knocked out by a lightning strike, forcing the plane to land on the much shorter and seldom-used-by-airliners Runway 18R. Tulsa Tower had to give the flight crew directions to the terminal, since it's a longer taxi from 18R to the United gates.

Ah yes, but they usually don't start forking out the headsets until AFTER takeoff.

And even you had your own headset, you are told to remove your headset during takeoff....

but I suppose if you have a headset of your own and are naughty and put it on AFTER the stewardess has sat down for takeoff, what can they really do?