What about small NPC's?
 

Every time I read an expansion thread or a thread about 'what NPC would you like to see at your school?' I see the same sororities mentioned over and over again, Kappa, Tridelt, DG, Theta, etc etc.

When is anyone ever going to say 'Well, I think Theta Phi Alpha should colonize on our campus?' or 'It would be great it Alpha Sigma Alpha comes back?'

I realize that a lot of these smaller NPC's can't compete with the larger sororities (ie ChiO) on large greek campuses. Smaller NPC's haven't been in the NPC as long, thus not having a larger national influence and don't have the monetary funds. However, if these smaller NPC's are prevented from colonizing on campuses with a strong greek presence, they'll just get smaller and smaller, and your Tridelts will get larger and larger.

As for my own NPC, we're struggling to keep our chapters as is.

Btw - when I say 'smaller' NPC's, I am typically talking about Theta Phi, ASA, AST, DPhiE, SDT, Phi Sig, AEPhi, Trig-Sig (although I know some are bigger than others).

What can we do to fix this?

I think it largely depends on the school and the geography. I had never heard the name of any GLO before I got to a college campus, had no preconceived ideas about what the orgs were like nationally and couldn't name any GLOs other than the ones on my own campus at the time I graduated. The only group that colonized while I was there was AST and it was their Alpha chapter so I don't recall any big presentations or anything. I don't think the NPC women on our campus were that aware of other GLOs at all.

Dee

AGDee is right about geography playing a big part. For example, Alpha Phi is well known in the midwest and western United States, but we're not very well represented in the Southeast.

And is it really an issue of not being "allowed" to colonize on larger campuses or is it indicative of the expansion policy with these respective organizations?

Paging 33girl...

I have definite opinions on this, but I'll save my comments after a few others have chimed in. :)

There was some discussion on that here:

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...threadid=31980

Re: What about small NPC's?
 

As far as I know, TPA doesn't have any chapters at schools with really strong greek life (in the South for example), but I don't think we're getting any smaller. We just opened 3 new chapters this year and we currently have 4 colonies. I realize that our chapters are smaller because we're not on huge greek campuses, but we're slowly increasing our overall number of chapters. :)

Re: What about small NPC's?
 

I disagree with this. I think that the smaller NPCs are not getting smaller and smaller. We are growing. We're just not expanding on the big greek schools. Many of them aren't open for expansion, or if they are, it is too expensive to colonize there successfully.

I DO NOT think that Greek ladies of larger GLOs conspire to keep smaller GLOs off of campuses.

I believe that it has to do with several factors:

1) If there are more Theta chapters than say ASA, then it only seems logical that more people will be exposed to the Theta name... Thus, when it comes time to answer the question of who they would like to see expand they will most likely answer with a name they are familiar with.

I had never heard of most of those smaller GLOs. That doesn't mean that I would be opposed to seeing them expand. It just means that I would be more likely to say Phi Mu or KD than say Phi Sig.

It has nothing to do with people not wanting smaller GLOs on campus. I think that most Greek systems would benefit from any successful group strengthening the system of a campus.

2) Expansion has a lot to do with the HQ of the GLOs. It only seems logical that a larger GLO would have more resources available for expansion, ie money, alumnae, etc.

It is up to the individual GLO to submit packets for expansion. I know that when Middle Tennessee State University opened for expansion SK, GphiB, and AXO were the ones that were voted on for expansion.


So, to conclude, I feel as though your view of the situation may be a bit skewed. It seems as though you think larger GLOs are conspiring against the smaller ones. And, this could be further from the truth IMO.
I think it has more to do with name recognition and less to do with a concerted effort to stifle the growth of smaller GLOs.

Now, to the productive part of this reply. You can help your GLO in a few different ways I can think of. You can: donate to the foundation of your GLO, work on promoting your GLO first in your local community and encourage all of your sisters to do the same in the communities they are from, work on strengthening your relationship with the other GLOs on campus (one can always learn from others no matter who they are...), and encourage your GLO HQ to look into further expansions.

Re: What about small NPC's?
 

What chapter are you in??

my uneducated perspective..
 

First off, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one... here's mine:D

If you're a smaller organization that aspires to be a 'top tier' organization, you have to be willing and able to put out the effort to become competitive. Because you're not always there, you have to work twice as hard (probably harder) to get there as the folks that are already there.

Either you're not able (lack of resources) or you're not willing (lack of motivation). I'd tend to think it's more of the former and less of the later.

As the saying goes, usually, the rich just get richer.

Hey, I'd like to think that I represent A Phi quite well. ;) Actually, Sistermadly is exactly right. There's only 1 other chapter in Florida, none in Georgia, Alabama, and maybe even South Carolina and Mississippi (have to get back to you on that).

I think geography really is a big factor. When I come back home to Chicago, everyone knows Alpha Phi. As a matter of fact, most of the girls I graduated with joined Alpha Phi. But down here in Florida, no one ever hears about us, even though we are a large NPC.

Keep in mind that the "larger" organizations weren't handed charters on a silver platter. They had to work for those chapters too. And also, you can only have one of each chapter at a university... therefore, SDT, ASA, TPA, etc. have lots of opportunities to expand.

At Florida Tech, the only NPCs are Gamma Phi Beta and Alpha Phi. But we are probably expanding in the next year, and I have a feeling that the new chapter on campus will NOT be a "traditional" chapter. We are a very non-traditional school, so I have a feeling that it is going to be one of the smaller NPCs that comes on, because they're not going to have a stereotype to combat. Also, I've noticed that most of the chapters labeled as "smaller NPCs" are big in the northeast, and a majority of our students come from the east coast. In this case, geography will probably benefit the smaller NPCs.

Re: What about small NPC's?
 

US$300 million

The University of South Carolina voted to expand this past spring and only two groups, Alpha Xi Delta and Gamma Phi Beta, submitted packages. However, I do think the fact that all of the sororities opened houses this fall had a lot to do with the low response.

One thing that seemed really odd to me was that Pi Beta Phi did not submit a package. They were on this campus from 1931 - 1985, and their current national president is from this chapter that is now closed. I would have thought they would have jumped at the chance to come back. Of course, we have also had two groups fold in the past two years (Theta in 2001 and DG in 2003) and I think that may have had an impact.

I was really surprised that more groups did not express interest.

Is Gamma Phi Beta building a house??

I think Gamma Phi Beta will have to be here for a year after they colonize before they could get a lot in the Greek Village but don't quote me on that. They are colonizing in the fall 2004, so I think the very earliest they could be in a house would be fall 2006. That would be very agressive though given the money required.

Thanks sugar and spice for finding that post. I have a nasty sinus headache that will not go, so my thoughts might be somewhat disconnected.

Actually, russell is the most on the money with his answer. :) I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this, but when the New Mex state expansion came up, we were one of the groups up for it. DG got picked instead. I asked one of the girls on here who is from NMSU what she thought, and she said everyone liked us, but DG could commit to keeping 1 or 2 consultants there for a year. ASA could not. But here's the deal: we have 3 consultants for this whole year. DG has around 10. The school wants a sorority that will start out strong, so why wouldn't they pick the one who could do that? I can't be mad at DG or the school's NPC for that.

astroaphi - yes, we have had lots of opportunities to expand. I have lots of opportunities to go into Saks and buy Chanel handbags too. That doesn't mean that I CAN. There is nothing I would love more than to be at some of the big schools we used to be at and places like LSU, Cornell, USC etc. We just do not have the money. That doesn't mean we're in a bad financial state, we just don't have as much disposable income.

The only way I can think of that this could have been prevented from happening is that when the smaller groups first joined NPC, the larger groups were prevented from expanding for a period - much like when a new chapter comes to campus, the existing chapters have to stop recruitment for a period of time. But that idea is a day late and a dollar short.

Re: my uneducated perspective..
 

Hummm...maybe on a chapter level improving your "tier" status (if you believe in it) can be a lack of motivation....but I don't buy that... improving your "tier" nationally (if you belive in national "tiers") is a lack of motivation...
I happen to know that Phi Sig (as a "smaller" sorority that may have trouble getting expansion votes on larger greek campuses) has a VERY motivated expansion committee who I'm sure put their heart and soul into expansion presentations....
sometimes I'm sure people just haven't heard of us becuase we are most strong in the northeast... sometimes I'm sure there are financial barriers...(have to be able to buy a huge house to be competetive)
sometimes it really is a matter of geograhpy... I mean even a "larger" sorority like Phi Mu probably woudln't get chosen here on a Cali campus because they are rather under represented here considering how strong they are in the south. ( I think there's only 3-5 chapters of Phi Mu here in Cali. But with as much love as people have for their GLOs a lack of motivation... ESPECIALLY on the national level since these women have decided their GLOs are important enough to continue their involvment after collegiate yeas...I really just don't see motivation as a bar to expansion at all really...

Okay, I am a member of the expansion committee for my Phi Sig, and when I saw this thread, I was very curious to see what people had to say. Having experienced first hand the trials and tribulations of expansion for a "smaller" sorority, there are a couple things I'd like to share.

First of all, as some of you might know we were one of the groups selected to present at Cornell. I was actually at the presentation. Now, granted, there were huge differences between us and Alpha Xi Delta - AXD's materials were extremely well designed, they had a video, all kinds of stuff, whereas all we had was a powerpoint presentation (we're fixing that, don't worry!). That being said, all the things that have been mentioned in this thread, i.e. alumnae support and money, we had and were ready to committ 100% to that colony. We have more chapters in NY than any other NPC org. The alumnae support was there. We had plenty of money in the chapter reserve fund from when the Cornell chapter was there before. We had a chapter consultant ready and waiting to move in to Ithaca to live there for an entire year to support the colony.

Yet we didn't get a single vote. Not one.

Now I'm not saying AXD didn't deserve it more than we did. AXD is a fabulous organization and I honestly wish them the best of luck. They're going to do an amazing job and have an amazing chapter. So please don't take this the wrong way. I'm only trying to provide the view of an expansion committee member from a small org.

Do I think Phi Sig could have done just as good as a colony there? Absolutely. Am I also hurt that we didn't get a single vote? That not one of the groups thought that Phi Sig would be a good choice, given everything that we also had going for us? Of course I'm hurt.

I do also think at the same time that there is much more to the expansion process than meets the eye. Again, I am very very happy that Alpha Xi Delta was chosen, this is not a post out of bitterness or anything like that. I am just saying that sometimes, for whatever reason, there is more to picking a group than alumnae, money, and geographics.

This is one of the reasons I see GC as such a valuable tool for smaller groups, like Phi Sig. As I've often read, many people out there aren't really even aware of the smaller groups. So hopefully, all of my sisters are making positive impressions on all of you out there - and maybe some day, when your school opens for expansion, you WILL say "hey, i'd love to see phi sig here, those girls are great!". Because that's how the strong groups got so strong - people meet Chi O's, or Tri Delts, or Thetas, or Kappas, etc, and think, "hey, those girls are the best, I'd love to have them here!" and when the school opens for expansion, thats who they want. Am I jealous that we're not there yet? Of course :) But we'll get there. I'm keeping the faith.

Re: Re: my uneducated perspective..
 

Glitter650 -

I think ktsnake was agreeing with you, that he thought it was more of the former (lack of $) and less of the latter (lack of motivation).

There are some fraternities who I think have consciously decided to stay small and not pursue expansion opportunities, but that's a whole other animal.

Usually, smaller Groups, because of the Size of Their Number of Chapters or maybe less well known are not chosen just for that very reason.

Maybe for the reason of how many Chapters are in the General Area for support. How many $$$, and support is the organization willing to give to a new beginning Chapter.

Expansion in this day and age is just as hard as it was when Most were Founded! Distance and Travel were much harder, but those that decided to expand while others did not.

Just look at the Fraternitys that were the Union Triad. They are Small while The Miami Triad seems to be the ones that have grown. But at a point in their time, they also did not want to expand. I know, I felt that sting in the mid 60's. At that time, there were two Fraternitys that wanted to: LXA and TKE.

There is just one more thing I'd like to add to what I said before, and something to think about for all of you who are at schools that are in the expansion process or thinking about expanding. Something that doesn't really come through in presentations.

It's impossible for the "smaller" orgs to get funding to play with the big orgs if they are only able to open chapters at schools where the average chapter size is in the 20's or 30's. So it's a question of considering what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you have to have the money/alumnae first, or should you open the chapter so that you can have the money/alumnae?

I do know this: Phi Sig, and probably many other "smaller" groups, want to be at the big schools. We WANT to play with the Kappas, the Pi Phis, the Tri Delts, the SKs, etc. If we have the opportunity to colonize a large chapter, we will do whatever it takes to be successful, and stretch resources like crazy until that colony has what it needs. So then, when you're making the decision, you have to think - what would this chapter mean to each org? While every group values ALL of it's chapters, when it's the kind of chapter that can help boost a "small" org into the "medium" range, versus helping a big group just get bigger... Wouldn't it be that much more meaningful give the small group out a chance to shine?

Just a thought. :)

I honestly think the main reason AEPhi is small is sort of by choice. AEPhi is a historically jewish sorority and while its membership is open to people of all races and religions ( I am a non-jewish AEPhi chapter president and no aspect of national programming or ritual has made me uncomfortable with that) it doesn't down play that it was founded by seven jewish women. If a school is looking to open a chapter and their are no jewish women on campus it most likely will not be drawn to AEPhi. If you simply look at the location of AEPhi chapters: the Northeast, Southern California and schools that draw from those areas you will see this.

During my time in AEPhi I have never really heard of an AEPhi chapter starting through the formalized NPC open expansion process where several organizations make presentations and the panhel votes on which organization they prefer. From my knowledge most recent AEPhi chapters are started by interest groups/local sororities that are composed entirely or partially of jewish women who always had the intention of going AEPhi. (In fact I am aware of at least 2 or 3 local sororities that were formed with the intention of affiliating with AEPhi but were unable to secure an expansion vote from their panhel)

If AEPhi's supreme goal was to become very large I personally believe they would only be able to do this if they downplayed the organizations jewish roots and this is something they are not willing to do because it would be denying our organization's heritage.

I would also imagine that this might be the situation for other nationals where religion was an aspect of their founding such SDT and Theta Phi. Regardless of their national policies they are still labeled by the religion of their founders.

you know, living in the Northeast, before I came to GC, i never heard of some of the big chapters, Pi Phi, Theta..... I really only knew the seven at my school (DG, SK, Phi Sig, SDT, ZTA, GPB and of course AXO...) - i only knew of CHi Omega because people would confuse us with them... Tri-Delt because of SNL...

but I knew of a lot of the smaller ones because my friends were in them at other schools- mainly DPhiE, Tri-Sig, AEPhi.... so those are more familiar to me than the "big" chapters. Like every school in NJ has a Phi Sig, but we were the only AXO chapter in the state.

heh, since im bored, the NPC chapters in some schools in NJ: heh, its like all small chapters.. and then ZTA.

(note: I got these off the schools websites, so the info may be inaccurate)

Rider U:
Alpha Xi Delta
Delta Phi Epsilon
Phi Sigma Sigma
Zeta Tau Alpha


Monmouth U:
Alpha Sigma Tau
Delta Phi Epsilon
Phi Sigma Sigma
Theta Phi Alpha
Zeta Tau Alpha

Rowan U:
Alpha Epsilon Phi
Theta Phi Alpha
Alpha Sigma Alpha
Delta Phi Epsilon
Delta Zeta
Phi Sigma Sigma
Sigma Sigma Sigma


the college of NJ:
Delta Phi Epsilon
Delta Zeta
Kappa Delta
Phi Sigma Sigma
Sigma Sigma Sigma
Theta Phi Alpha
Zeta Tau Alpha


Montclair state:
Delta Phi Epsilon
Phi Sigma Sigma
Sigma Delta Tau
Sigma Sigma Sigma

Kean U:
Delta Phi Epsilon
Theta Phi Alpha

anyways, im bored of looking. But its interesting to see these NJ schools with the same smaller chapters, while Rutgers is a much larger school, and is more diverse with what chapters we have...

That's a wonderful thought...but (especially after reading Dolphin Chica's post) I don't think many schools or Panhels are going to be that altruistic.

=== Pulls hair out ===

Although Phi Sigma Rho is not a NPC sorority, the majority of our chapters also start as interest groups/local sororities that decide to go Phi Sigma Rho because we are a niche market social sorority. In fact, we have only been able to start chapters at many big universities since we did not have to wait for an expansion vote from Panhel.

If we had to wait for an expansion vote, we would never have the opportunity to get on many campuses. It seems that the larger the Greek system, the more the Panhel strictly follows the NPC recommendations for expansion and suggested Panhel bylaws that are listed in the Greek Book (specifically, not expanding until all sororities are at total, quote, etc). Until NPC changes its Greek Book recommendations and suggested bylaws, I do not see how any smaller NPC group can really expand effectively.

For example, just a few things that would help the smaller NPC sororities:

1. Expansion formal presentations by NPC sororities should be as Panhel formal recruitments (i.e. strict rules to level out the playing field, so that the focus is on a sorority's values and not its budget, etc.).
2. NPC needs to change its Green Book recommendations and suggested bylaws, since many Panhels view anything in the Green Book as sometime that must be done as a Unanimous Agreement rather than as an example.
3. A Panhel should not be able to prevent a interest group/local sorority from becoming an associate member of Panhel.
4. If an interest group/local sorority approaches a Panhel about bring on another NPC sorority, the Panhel should not be able to prevent the interest group/local sorority from doing. The Panhel should only have the right to vote to allow a 1-year period to strengthen any existing sorority and/or convience the group to join an existing sorority, before the group can begin the expansion process with the NPC sorority of the group's choosing.

By making changes that would encourage more expansion of the smaller NPC groups, NPC would also be showing that it is truly "panhellenic" to other non-NPC national sororities. There are at least 3-4 niche market national social sororities, including Phi Sigma Rho, that are presently or will soon be eligible for NPC associate membership. Unless, NPC makes changes that would encourage these national sororities to join NPC, I can see these groups as eventually going the way of the cultural group and starting their own sorority conference rather than joining NPC.

Part of me thinks that this is one of the major reasons why requirements to join the NPHC are so much stricter than the NPC (as well as the fact that there are more chapters of each NPHC sorority or fraternity), and I'm wondering if maybe the NPC should adopt policies more similar to the NPHC's. For example, I think you need something like 50 chapters before you can join the NPHC, as opposed to the NPC's 13. A sorority that has only 15 chapters but is forced to play by NPC rules in regards to expansion is NOT going to thrive. The same sorority, if it expands on its own until it has 50 chapters and THEN petitions for NPC membership, is going to have an easier time of things.

But the difference with NPHC is that they are much more accepting of much smaller collegiate chapters or instead have regional chapters. My campus has 3 NPHC chapters, 2 which re-chartered recently and one that's always been around and combined i don't think they have more than 15-20 members but I am sure their nationals are ok with this because NPHC really believes in quality over quantity. NPC on the other had would never expand with a sorority where the average chapter size is less than 20.

Also I agree with some of PhiRhoSister's points. Interest groups are often not allowed to affiliate with a national because the current chapters are not at total or whatever. If an interest group is forming there is a part of the student population that feels there isn't a place for them in the school's current greek system. Let them affiliate and give them the heads up that they will probably not make total and see if they're are ok with that. Some organizations may be ok with a 30 person chapter on a campus where total is 60 because its not just about numbers. And people may disagree with this but what about campus with nationals and locals. Often, if not usually, the locals are smaller but the members are ok with this because the local organization fits their needs.

>>>>If an interest group/local sorority approaches a Panhel about bring on another NPC sorority, the Panhel should not be able to prevent the interest group/local sorority from doing<<<<

An interest group on a campus should not get to decide when a new NPC sorority is invited to that campus. Everyone (especially smaller sororities with fewer resources) will get shot in the foot with a policy like that. While I am a fan of NOT bringing in new sororities when there are struggling ones, there are times when it is warranted (the struggling sorority has not made efforts to improve, for instance). At no time, though, should a group of women get to band together and tell a campus when it is time for a new sorority. There are many more factors to consider besides what that group wants and when they want it.

I don't think NPHC should even come into this discussion because it's beyond apples & oranges - it's more like ice cream & oranges. (mmm, that sounds good) Their philosophy of membership selection in general is different than NPC's and that trickles down to new chapters/sororities.

As for PhiRho Sister's suggestions, I agree with #1 but not the rest. Partly because they won't do anything to help the situation IMO...it is not just the schools that want the bigger sororities, it is often the girls themselves. Also - no one MADE us join NPC. It was our choice. We were aware of the sacrifices, but the women in charge at the time thought they were worth it.

Sorry if I sound a bit schizophrenic on this subject, but I would bet the other ladies in smaller groups can relate...

Re: Re: What about small NPC's?
 

I couldn't agree with you more Cream! DPhiE recently chartered at Florida Atlantic and Schreiner University, and will charter at Drexel and TAMUK soon as well. We will also be starting another new colony. We're definitely growing. BUT, we're just not going to the big greek schools, because it's entirely too expensive.

pirepresent, I can sympathize with your situation regarding Cornell. But Phi Sig is a fabulous sorority up in the northeast (my neck of the woods), and will continue to be :)

I guess I never though about D Phi E as a "smaller sorority". I guess that's because I'm from Jersey and most of our chapters are located in the northeast.

D-Phi-E is growing, just maybe not at the same rate "as bigger sororities" As for large schools, it's hard to expand to them because it's way to expensive to compete.

I think a phrase my chapter lives by applies here "Quality before Quanitity". Smaller NPC's are great sororities, wheither they that 5 chapters or 500.

Incidentally, the Internet has probably aggravated a lot of this. Before, the only way you knew what sororities were largest was to call NPC or look in a Baird's...now all you have to do is type in the name and there it is. I know this goes back to the thread asking how influential the website was to you.

Thank you Shadokat and 33girl for your kind words, and EGDeepher, I couldn't agree more - the smaller groups are still wonderful and amazing, no matter how many chapters they have.

Yeah... but does it make a difference in rush ?? Because as I recall on that thread.. (and other threads with similar themes such as the one involving AAA or BBB) MOST people said that they really go for campus rep/perception... most people have NO Idea if the group they join is strong nationally... I sure as heck didn't know that on my campus Alpha Phi is probably the "largest national"... all I knew was that I wanted to be with ladies that I could hang out with and feel comfortable with.... sure I visited the websites... but really at the time I didn't think TOO much about the # of chapters.. I mean really I think AGD only has maybe 15 more chapters than Phi SIg... some of them are just at A LOT bigger schools and a higher percentage of them have more members.. but that's all stuff I've learned NOW from here and being around greek life.

No, I don't think it has much to do with individual rush for individual girls. For the majority of girls chapter reputations and relations are what matters most. Choosing a new chapter for the school or an interest group, that's different.

As a Greek Adviser, I think the best opportunities for expansion for the small NPC groups lie on campuses like ours that have small but growing Greek systems. Two out of the three NPC sororities we have on campus are smaller (D-Phi-E and AST). Our last expansion, the four sororities that submitted proposals were all smaller (Tri Sigma, ASA, Phi Sigma Sigma, and D-Phi-E). The larger NPC groups automatically turn up their noses at our campus as being small potatos, and not worth the effort.

EXACTLY the point I was making in the other thread regarding Tri Delta going to Stockton! We have a fab group at SIUE though BSU, so thanks for having us :)

Yes, but the principle is the same. They realize that a sorority with 25 chapters is NOT going to be able to compete with DST or AKA, and probably not with the other two NPHC sororities either. And this is in a conference where it is much easier to establish new chapters than it is within the NPC. I think it's pretty clear that a sorority with 13 chapters will not be able to compete Kappa or Chi O; it's quite possible that it won't be able to compete with TPA or SDT. As much as I would like to see the NPC expand, I do think that sororities who are looking to join should establish a solid base before applying for membership, and I don't think those 13 chapters are enough for a solid base. Considering how much easier it will be for them to expand before they join the NPC than after, and how much more their number of chapters will matter after they join the NPC than before -- it just makes sense.