The fallacy of Sorority Recs?
 

Ok I was talking to some NPC members about sorority recs.

This is my understanding of the situation:

At some scholols recs are vital. The lack of a recomendataion is a barrier to entry into a sorority and will likely get a PNM cut by the second round.

In the interest of fairness NPC generall has a policy that its the responsbility of the Chapter to get girls recomendations that don't already have them.

I have been told that the above very rarely happens. So that a girl that doesn't have a rec to start is mostly SOL.

Here are some talk points:

1. If eveyone you are cosidering has a recomendation, doesn't that diminish the value of them unless they come from someone with status in the sorority?

2. If NPC is acknowledging that the rec system is unfair and maybe even inane by asking each chapter to go get Recs for girls without them, why not just pass a rule that recs are unnecessary?

3. Shouldn't local NPCs enforce the Chapter-Go-Get-A-Rec Rule by making it a Rush infraction for a chapter to NOT get a rec for a girl that wants to RUSH that chapter?

And this one is way out there . . . but . . .

4. Isn't it possible that the writing of recs by a sorority member for a specific chapter in a specific system is actually a violation of the spirit of RUSH guidelines . . . that she is in fact pre-rushing that girl for that chapter? I mean she is writing a recomendation that assumes they are talking about her placement.

5. Am I totally getting the system wrong lol?

It's complicated. At some schools, they're necessary and others they aren't. However, I can't imagine rush at Auburn and Arkansas, with the numbers involved, without them.:eek:

It has been my experience with several different NPC sororities that if a sorority wants a girl badly enough, they will find her a rec. No way, though, could they go off and find recs for hundreds of girls.

The only problem with this is that assumes that the chapter has some experience with the girl beforehand . . with the fast pace of Formal Rush I can't see many girls that would be wanted "that" badly because on the surface a lot will look alike . . . good resume, good looking and well presented.

This must especially be a dealbreaker for people coming from say the north or just places where sorority wasn't emphasized.

I totally agree. I wish they would just say the girls need to get the recs on their own and be done with it.

It's not fair to tell people they're "not necessary" per the rules when in practice, they are. That's like the one school that said in their rush booklet that jeans were OK and people from that school came on here and said jeans were NOT OK.

Re: The fallacy of Sorority Recs?
 

Good questions, James --
#1. Not necesssarily; there can be "strong" recs and "weak" recs, and it usually doesn't take a genius to distingusih between them. I believe JAM once posted an edited excerpt from a rec she wrote that was an example of a very strong rec. In contrast, a rec that is simply a filled-out official sorority form with few personal comments might be seen as saying, essentially, "take a look, as far as I know she's okay." Sororities also are aware that there are areas of a state or even of the country where there aren't many prominent alumnae, so they may be delighted to get a rec on a great PNM who happens to live in Nowhere Junction instead of suburban Chicago / Atlanta / Denver / Dallas, etc., even if the alumna doesn't have a particularly high profile in the org.

#4. Again, not necessarily. A rec need not be "pre-rushing." It is often (usually) just a way to alert a chapter to someone who may be a good member. It's quite possible for a young woman to have a rec and not even know about it -- although usually the PNM or her mother will quietly get the word from an alumna that a rec has been sent in. Especially in areas where recs are all but essential, alumnae know that a rec doesn't promise a bid or even much in the way of special consideration -- it's more like a partial substitute for the first-semester or first-year scrutiny that women get at schools with
deferred recruitment.

Finally, there's the dreaded written No Rec -- very sparingly used, but this can alert a chapter that a PNM's behavior makes her unsuitable for the chapter. A No Rec can be useful in those rare cases where a mebers of a chapter are not aware of serious problems.

33Girl, well said! That's exactly why many GCers have repeatedly advised in rush threads that PNMs should ask for recs, get the word out that they are interested in Greek Life and recruitment, and if need be contact a local / regional NPC Alumnae Panhellenic. Even for campuses where "no one" has recs, I've never read a GC post saying that a sorority cut someone BECAUSE she had a rec -- I figure a rec can't hurt!

Exactly! This needs to be stressed a million times. I don't that my chapter would know what to DO with a rec, but it sure wouldn't hurt your chances - we'd know you really cared.

I think another thing too is that, not always with the school's Panhellenic or because of the number of PNM's that come through, but some chapters at a national level require recommendations before they can either bid a woman or before the pledge/new member pinning ceremony.

A recommendation requirement and value varies between the different NPC chapters (and we know who we are! ) :)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a big part of the start of the Rec system due to many mothers sending a chapter hundreds or thousands of dollars of gifties prior to Daughter Dear going through Rush?

I agree with all that has been stated so far, and as a Rec Chair, I could certainly tell a good rec from an "eh" one!

I don't think my school is that competetive per se, but we do have an old system with even some single letter or very early (national) chapters. In my experience here the recs helped me out in differing ways depending on the chapter. For various reasons I did not go through formal, so keep that in mind.

1) For chapters that took quota during formal, are at total, or just aren't doing COB, the rec has worked like getting a foot in the door. They can't take me now, but they are aware I exist and when they want new sisters, they have someone to invite. In my opinion a chapter that is always looking for potential sisters, even if they can't take any, is one that has good recruitment skills. Can't hurt to have a pool of potentials when it is time for new members.

2) For groups that did COB having a rec helped. For some groups I had alums contacting the chapter for me and saying I was interest in COB, and them working as a go between. Others it was that they knew I didn't go through formal, and looked me up in the student directory.

3) Sadly two groups I have a rec for won't take women until next fall. :( Having the rec would have been great in formal, and now knowing some of the members wouldn't hurt either. However, there are LOTS of girls with recs that come through those chapters, so it doesn't make the same impact as with others.

Recs for me were a matter of introductions for me, and a networking tool (and a really nice thing for alums to do, I cannot say enough how flattering it is when people think you're good enough to maybe be their sister one day). I know once I meet the chapter I am on my own with my own merits and social skills. I do think they are great for some women who can have their achievements, skills, activities, and so on highlighted to make the sisters aware of it. I am rather gregarious and social, but for a shy person or one not versed int he greek system, it may have made a real difference.

P.S. You GCers that helped me procure recs, thanks yet again!

Depends on where you are and the chapter. Some sororities will cut a pnm if she has no recs. No one knows her, no one is recommending her for membership, they have nothing to go on. It's one of those cut off points like grades are. Ex. All girls with no recs will be cut automatically after first day. All girls with GPAs below 3.0 will be cut before pref, etc. In chapters where it's no absolutely vital to have one, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference. Does that make sense? Like it's either REALLY important or not that important at all.
Besides, not all recs are GOOD. :o

At my school, most Recs were seen as "take a little closer look at this girl, she has some outstanding qualities and could be a very valuable member of your chapter." Of course, some were stronger than others: photo, resume, completed HQ rec form with personal letter--and some were weaker: barely completed HQ rec form. We even had certain times during work week where we would go through the recs to try and get to know the girls' names an faces so we would recognize them during recruitment and find out if they were really good matches for our chapter. Because they were written by alumnae or fellow actives at different schools, some former sisters from my chapter, they were taken very seriously. We would usually only get 1 or 2 recs per girl being recommended, every once in a while we would get 3 or maybe 4 (and you bet your sweet bippy we paid attention to those girls). Also, our Reference chair during Recruitment was also obligated to send a card out to every person who had submitted a Rec informing them which house the girl they recommended received a bid from.

And, in order to extend a bid to a PNM, she did have to have a rec. If she did not, a majority chapter vote would serve as one, and then we had to fill out some paperwork for HQ.

I was completely clueless about Recruitment and didn't even know I had a rec from my sister until my sophomore year.

SOMEtimes, it's not JUST the rec, but WHO wrote the rec...

I agree, it's more like, "Please take a closer look."

From what I've seen in real life and on GC, there is a continuum regarding letters of reference/recommendation (whatever they're calling them now) - ranging from "Anyone without at least 2 recs gets cut after round 1" to "WTF is a rec?" (My school falls near the "WTF is a rec?" end of the spectrum.)

At schools with highly competitive rushes, whether or not you have a rec can be the determining factor as to whether you're invited back after round 1. Sororities have to make quick decisions based on very little information, and a rec or two can tip the balance.

At schools with more laid-back rushes, where most women don't come in with a sheaf of recs, a rec still sends the message that "hey, she has some great qualities, don't overlook her" as well as the message that the PNM proactively went out and sought recommendations and information about the sororities at the school she'll be attending.

Bottom line: It's never wrong to get a rec.

Okay, so please forgive me for being naive, and I have searched on this topic and haven't quite found the answers I'm looking for. I guess I just need someone to go a little more in-depth on the topic for me.

I had never heard of having to have a recommendation for a sorority before coming here to GC. This obviously isn't a national requirement, because it's not required at all schools (or I wouldn't be asking such a silly question! ;) ). What I want to know is, how exactly do recommendations work? How popular are they? Does your school require the PNMs to have recs? Is it a Southern/Northern/Eastern/Western thing? Is it mainly some GLOs and not others? Is it larger schools? Smaller schools? What? I need more details!

Thanks!

I was cruising around the net, like I am prone to do and found this website, which just cracked me up!

Chi Omega at Samford University

I am pulling this quote from that page...

Please DO NOT submit more than 5 recommendations!

Now, obviously, someone has tried to submit more than 5 recommendations in the past. Pick your recommenders carefully, because, after all, you only get 5. You better make them count ;)

my school definitely isn't big on recs - i haven't heard of or seen one in my 3 years as active. And if someone came to us with more than 1 rec we would think they were a little too eager.

AXiD670:

Some partial answers:

A recommendation (or Potential Member Profile, as Alpha Xi calls it in the "Recruitment" section of your Nationals' web site) is sent by an initiated member to a chapter to make the chapter aware of someone who might make a good member. Some GLOs only allow alumnae to write recs; others allow collegiate members -- especially from other chapters -- to do so, too.

Usually, at a minimum, the chapter will make an extra effort (ranging from a little to a lot) to get to know any recommended woman during recruitment.

"Schools" themselves, or even school Panhellenics, do not require recommendations. Chapters or national organizations may do so. At some schools all or nearly all the chapters require them.

For the most part, the schools where recs are virtually required are those with a highly competitve NPC recruitment environment. These can be large or small schools, and can be anywhere. Some of the best known are larger Southern schools.

From what I've read on GC, I'd say Ole Miss, LSU, U of Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, and similar schools are places where not having a rec is very likely to get a woman cut by many chapters. Texas-Austin, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Southern Methodist are other examples.

I'll bet there are some smaller and/or non-Southern schools where recs are vital or pretty important, but I'm just not aware of examples.

I am not sure you are going to get the answers you would like on here. It is important to recognize that each GLO has a membership selection process and recommendations may or may not play a role in the groups's process. Since membership selection is not something to be discussed in a public setting, it is going to be difficult to get your answers. I am sure they play a role in EVERY NPC group BUT the way the individual chapter may handle the recs may depend on if they are following their selection process. I am sure it varies by school as well since there are more PNMs at certain schools but all in all it boils down to each GLO and their selection process.

At Ole Miss, it is highly ADVISED that each PNM have at least one rec sent to the houses. I know of some sororities at Ole Miss that will not consider a PNM if they do not have a rec for invites after first round.

A rec is important in my view because it usually has transcripts included, a recent picture, and whether or not the PNM is able to be financially responsible to the chapter. They also include a sorority resume.

When I went through recruitment in 1996 at Ole Miss I had at least two recs to every house. I had my mothers' friends write them for me. This year during recruitment there was one girl who had 13 recs for AOII. They were all from different AOIIs in her area. She really went to work and one of them was from a past international president of AOII as well. I found that to be very impressive. And of course, she did pledge AOII!

I know at Ole Miss every sorority makes posters of PNMs that we hang up in our dorm sections of our houses. This way each day when the actives walk by they can look at the pictures and the names and their hometowns to get to know each girl. We would not have had almost 800 pictures this year if it weren't for recs. I find them very useful. And then we send out cards to the alumnae who wrote the recs to thank them and to tell them what house their girl pledged. I would recommend them and if a PNM cannot find a member of a GLO in their area I would recommend contacting that GLO's international headquarters and they can find someone in that area to write the rec. I also recommend the PNM to find their local Panhellenic Office and participate in teas and turn their information into the Panhellenic database for alumnae to write recs for them.

Anyone calling the HQ of a GLO should be wary. I was told by three different GLOs that if they wanted me, they would have someone write a rec for me at the school. One in particular was quite hateful when I called.

So, my advice to anyone needing recs is to try and find someone in the community. Although, if you are like me and come from an area where there are NO other sorority girls except for another ZTA and a DZ that are the same age as I am, it's pretty impossible to get recs for a lot of the sororities. I managed to get 3 recs for rush out of 9 (Katherine, is this correct?) sororities on campus when I rushed.

Now, at the other school I affilliated with, (20K+ students) recs were simply a way to make a woman stand out to us.

I know it is an excellent way to gain some information on PNM. But, I firmly believe that the rec system usually favors those near a population of Greeks. Thus, it seems that those areas would get bigger while the "white spaces" never develop a good size Greek population.

And 5 Chi O recs=10 Chi Os involved!:eek: When we got Ballerina's and BlazerCheer's Chi O recs, the alums made sure we knew that 2 Chi Os have to sign each rec.

Well, when you went through there were ten GLO's and now we are down to 9. But I didn't think about how that some HQ's might not want a PNM calling them up. Good point. I'm glad someone is thinking around here! :)

RE: where recs are important - there's really no answer, like "You must always have them for Chi O, only for Gamma Phi Beta if the chapter is larger than 72, only for Pi Beta Phi in the south, etc."

Recs are predominately used at larger schools with a competitive rush, or smaller schools with a competitive rush. There's schools where chapters won't know what to do with one, and there's schools where chapters won't want to talk to you if you don't have one.

Getting back to the point I think James was originally trying to make -- aren't recs really stupid most of the time?

Bear with me -- I can understand the value of a rec written by an alumna who knows the PNM really well. However, when a PNM is going around asking for recs from women in the community -- these alumnae can't possibly know this PNM very well, even if they meet for lunch to talk about what sorority membership means to the PNM and the alumna looks over her resume. What is the point of that? I don't see how this is meaningful at all, nor do I see how it's meaningful for a group to require recs, but the collegiates can find one if they really need one (which is basically saying that we have a rule that recs are required, but if you're really awesome we can sneak around it). It seems like it's another silly hoop for PNMs to jump through, at schools where there is already more than enough drama as far as rush is concerned. Women who come from the south where Mama has 900 sorority friends have a huge advantage in this case over women from the north who may know one woman who was in a sorority. The bottom line, IMHO, is that the woman with no recs may make a far better sister, but nobody will ever find out because they're too concerned with silly pieces of paper.

Yup thats right Valkyrie.

In places where sorority recs are mandatory and have to be pursued . . . and lets face it . . where arrangements can be made to get one from people that barely know you . . .

They become merely a Barrier to Entry. So the question is, why use a barrier to entry at all?

Is it to give advantage, as others have said, to members that come from large Greek areas?

Or is it just a way to winnow down some numbers? If so then it may eliminate some awesome girls from even being considered.

The question would be why use recs in this way?

I think when it comes down to it, it's just perpetuating the "old girls network" -- if your "people" are sorority members or know sorority members, we're going to give you a better chance than we would some girl off the street (even if she's awesome). The whole mess should just be tossed out the window as yet another example of how sororities are becoming outdated.

I think it's awful to justify it by saying that there are too many women going through rush and sorority members need recs to reduce the numbers a bit. That's disrespectful -- if sorority members can't give equal attention to every woman who comes through their house during rush, I think they need to brush up on their people skills. I don't care if it's overwhelming. Deal with it!

On the one hand, it's evil to tell PNMs they don't need recs when they actually do. We should tell the truth in those rush booklets.

On the other hand, there is just no way to select members from hundreds of PNMs in one week if you don't use recs. Been there, done that at 3 SEC schools and if you haven't been involved with recruitment at a big Greek school, don't tell me how it should be run.

Let's say you don't have any members from Mobile but you do have 25 PNMs from there. Thank God, you also have recs from your alums there on all or most of those girls because otherwise, how on earth would you choose? The alums often know, for instance, which of those girls are most likely to stick with Greek life and who would bail out in case of problems....based on past experience. They know who the hard workers were in high school and who the lazy ones were.

No-recs are also very valuable. I have only used them twice...once for a very strange girl I worked with in Scouting, the other for a girl my oldest and I worked with. (My daughter gave her a no-rec too and although the girl didn't get into either of our sororities, she tore apart the one she pledged and was luckily kicked out before initiation.)

I wouldn't presume to judge the way Greek life is run outside of the South and I'd expect the same courtesy from people outside of the South.

Okay, I'm perfectly happy to admit that I am too radical for the sorority world, but I have a question. During rush at SEC schools, how much time is spent on skits and songs during the parties?

We learn the songs during the year so not much practice time is needed for singing. The only people who practice skits are those who act in them and everyone else is usually involved in either decorating or working on membership selection. Mostly the latter.

Let's say you have a party that is one hour long. How much of that actual party time (when PNMs are in the house) is spent doing a skit or a song?

Maybe 20 minutes. It depends on the school. Most of the time, you're trying to get to know the PNMs.

EXACTLY!! See, that's what I've never understood. Why waste any time doing skits and songs? When I went through rush (which, granted, was quite a few years ago now), I thought the skits and songs were pointless -- they didn't tell me anything about whether I would get along with the sisters or whether I wanted to be a part of their group. Wouldn't the time be better spent if skits and songs were eliminated so that the members could have more time to spend with the PNMs? Wouldn't that help them feel less overwhelmed and able to concentrate on what's really important?

I'd be happy to hear it if someone can point out to me the value that skits have, but so far it's lost on me. I can see how it might be a good team-building exercise for sisters, but I don't see the value for PNMs at all.

The skits and songs are supposed to tell the PNMs about the sorority. It would be a huge time-waster if they didn't. They also put the PNMs at ease--they're usually amusing.

As a PNM, I certainly would've been a nervous wreck if I'd attended 7 straight hour-long parties and done nothing but talk with sisters. During the skit, the attention is off the PNM trying to make an impression; it allows her to sit back and enjoy some refreshments and a few laughs and learn more about the groups.

I guess I can understand both sides of the coin here.

Prior to sorority life, when I was in high school, my best friend knew she was going to go to college and join a sorority. She knew she was going to join AAA because that's the one her mom was in and that's the one her neighbor was in. She went to college and, fall semester of her freshman year, went through rush and (surprise!) became an AAA. She went to a larger school in Florida and, to my knowledge, did not require any recs. However, she was a legacy, so I don't know if that made a difference. None of my other friends in sororities at Florida schools ever mentioned anything about having to have a rec, but then again, it might be standard so not something worth mentioning.

I on the other hand never had any desire to join a sorority. I went to a school in NC and freshman year I had several girls who lived on my hall in the dorm who were in sororities and I hated them. Then, during the summer b/w freshman and sophomore year, I befriended a girl who was in BBB sorority and I resolved that I wanted to join a sorority. I signed up to go through the recruitment process (so, yes, I was just a girl off the streets, so to speak), but noone mentioned that I should get a rec for any one of the groups on campus. So, I guess all the girls going through recruitment were girls off the streets. However, it was a smaller school, with only 60 girls to a chapter and about 125 rushees. So maybe that makes a difference as well. But our rush was definitely very competitive.

It just seems wrong to me that you're going to exclude someone because her mother/sister/someone she knows never joined a sorority. My mother did not join a sorority in college, and neither did my sister. I did not grow up with knowledge of sorority life. Had I gone to a school where I was cut from most of the groups merely because I did not have contact with someone who was a CCC at some other school 20 years ago, I probably would have dropped out of the whole process and been bitter about the whole thing for the rest of my life. Whenever my daughter(s) gets to college and expresses interest in joining, I probably would have discouraged it.

I can, however, understand how you would want to get a reference from someone saying "hey, I know this girl, she's great" or whatever. BUT I just lean towards the idea that a recommendation just solidifies the stereotype that sororities use shallow judgment when deciding to whom they extend bids. It seems to me that it is more of a negative thing than a positive one, and I would tend to agree with James that it is a barrier to entry.

But I really can't pass judgment because this whole concept is foreign to me.

So then, I have some more questions.

If I have to get a rec for AAA sorority, does the rec have to come from someone in AAA sorority? What if my neighbor was a BBB and sends in the rec to AAA? Would the girls of AAA accept a rec from another sorority woman?

Does the rec have to come from someone in a sorority at all? What if I am rushing AAA and I have a rec from my senator because I've known his family for years? Would it have more or less value if the senator was in a fraternity?

For the record, I am from the South and have seen rush at big and small schools. I have first hand experience with the Southern Greek System.

When recs are used as a means of selecting PNMs at the big schools, it is the easiest way for the traditionally Greek families to perpetuate their legacies.

It is extremely unfair to those who live in communites that aren't Greek b/c it is a means for the elite to just stay elite and it prevents others from joining. And, those from non-Greek families already have a harder time getting in b/c of legacies. The rec requirement just adds to the difficulty.

You can't truly know someone through a few minutes in rush and the same is true for those with recs. Having a rec simply means that the PNM had found someone to write a rec. I can write a rec for someone but they have just as good a chance of being a good sister as someone without a rec. Yes, they can say that some member of the sorority has vouched for this person. But, does that really guarantee that the person will be a more involved/better sister? No.

Isn't the New Member period supposed to both educate the NM on the sorority AND to let the sorority make sure that the person is dedicated to sorority XYZ before they initiate the NM?

The rec system is a way of letting the big schools out of some work. They are able to screen out girls from the start. And, isn't it their DUTY to get to know every PNM? The rec system seems to make the playing field incredibly uneven for those who are unable to secure recs or are unaware that not having a rec will get them cut after first round?

I do not agree with the rec system.

I agree with carnation. It also gives the non-skit sisters a chance to rest thier voices. The PNMs may only have 5 parties that day but the sororites may have 8.

I'm not a "you have to have skits" person, but they DO break the tension - for the rushees and sisters. (Also if you have food, everyone can finish eating it during the skit.) However...

-they shouldn't take up the majority of the party, and leave no room to talk (10-15 minutes out of an hour long party is plenty)
-they shouldn't be full of "inside jokes" that the rushees don't understand
-they shouldn't be so perfect they look like Bob Fosse choreographed them. Everyone should know their parts but not to the point of it being rote. The one skit I remember like this made me feel very uncomfy, but considering the sorority I wasn't surprised.

Nope. A rec for AAA must come from an intiated member of AAA. Sometimes collegiates can write recs, and sometimes it has to be alums, but it must come from a member of that sorority.

It is my understanding that it is virtually impossible to not initiate someone whom you've extended a bid to once they've accepted the bid. The pledge period is not the time to weed down the pledge class.

I think the rec system is a good thing. There are spaces on the rec for the writer to tell about the girl's character, her extra curricular activities and why she would (or WOULD NOT) be a good sister. It gives the sisters a headstart on evaluating the playing field of this year's prospects.