Top tier Mid Tier what?
 

Ok I always here girls talking about top tier sororities or mid tier or bottom tier . .

What do you mean by that exactly? And how is it decided?

Cause guys just don't think that way for the most part. the movie animal house notwithstanding.

The snobbiest, the slightly less snobby, and the girls who actually like each other.

:p

for anyone who is offended...if the shoe fits, wear it.

girls don't think that way either, unless they are shallower than Barbie's wading pond.

Actually, Guys Do Talk About It
 

Guys who are trained in rush theory do know that any given fraternity system with a stable number of chapters (say, a minimum of 10, more or less) will naturally divide into three separate tiers, each with it's own identity and characterstics. The top tier will comprise about 20% of the system; the bottom tier will have about 10% of the fraternities. All remaining chapters fall into the broad, middle Tier II. The goal of course of any successful rush effort is to move into, or to keep your chapter in, the recognized top tier. There are very specific traits, strengths and tendencies of these tiers; that's why the knowledge is important, at least to those of us who care about this stuff.
All this is based on the model of rush as a competitive enterprise. If you go into rush thinking of it in terms of winning and losing, you are already way ahead. One of the things we tell our kids in rush class isthis: You want to know who won rush? Wait a week and ask the sororities. They know!

33girl has a good point, however, some people in the "top tier" take it upon themselves to think they are better than others and too cool. I like to add that its the ones that want to be Exclusive and ones that are Inclusive. The inclusive girls are always looked down upon because its supposedly cool to be exclusive.

I remember at one band party at NCSU, They wouldn't let me in because I wasn't in a certain sorority. They tried to tell me it was a mixer, but there were a lot of independents there and alcohol. Its not like I am gross and nerdy, I think I am prettycute and skinny. It was strange though.

Re: Top tier Mid Tier what?
 

Well, since you posted this question in the Rush forum...I'll give my answer in that context.

The quickest, most objective "formula" I can give you is to look at the sororities percentage return rates to pref and that will usually be the top groups.

That's horrible! Those folks were plain rude. Is this the marching band you're talking about? Because if it is, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that the marching bands at some schools have parties that outside people would want to go to. Of course, I'm just basing that on how things were at the time and place I went to college.

I could be wrong, but I think she was referring to a fraternity party with a band, not a marching band party.

I agree with NutBrnHair--that's probably the most objective way to define it. However, there are non-objective things that underlie those release figures!

Well at my school we don't have teirs, since there's only 3 chapters... BUT I think 33girl defined it best. Basically the "top teir" is the chapter(s) that "everyone wants" for whatever reason. =)

LOL, ok now I feel really dumb! But at least that makes sense

Nah....don't worry about it. I was thinking marching band also, and trying to picture my college marching band being THAT exclusive! :D

Actually Berkely's band has a house and everything and there is rumors that they haze the freshman in the band... so it wouldn't be TOO far off for some schools to have a band party that was "exclusive".

At the 3 SEC schools I graduated from, you'd better believe that both the fraternities and the sororities were in tiers that most of the campus--Greek or not--could've named. I bet more than half the sorority PNMs at Auburn would've accepted nothing but the "Top 6"; at Arkansas, the Top 4.

Referring to Arkansas as i am an Alum from UARK the top 4 you refer to are power house southern GLO's and being at Arkansas for the itme i was their i hate to say this but they are the top teir in attitude ( snobbiness).


Laura

I just can't imagine that anyone in supposedly genteel society would talk about things like this or put it in words...it's like asking "what does your daddy do for a living?" Tacky, tacky, tacky.

There's nothing genteel about sorority rush in the South. It can be ruthlessly competitive, and with rush quotas hitting very high numbers, simply being nice isn't enough.

That's why I said supposedly...;) I can't imagine how any group that purports to practice gracious living can act in such an ill-bred way.

And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I'm sure this happens at competitive schools in the north, south, east and west.

I think people a lot of are generally hypcritic .. think Church goers. However, they can only be that way if other people let them get away with it.

I tend to call my friends on stuff, and I certainly won't hesitate to call out people I overhear being stupid.

I think most intelligent people generally take the "tiers" with a grain of salt. But it's also easy to say that at most schools they are pretty ingrained in Greek culture and that even those who don't believe they mean much could rattle off which groups are in which tiers in a heartbeat.

My school has been named to me as an example of a system that doesn't really follow the typical "tier" system and I'm inclined to agree. Although you could probably divide the sororities up if you tried, for the most part I agree with those who have told me that there is a strong "top two" or "top three" and then the rest of the sororities are really not too different in strength -- it all depends on what you're looking for in a group. Ditto the fraternities.

I wouldn't really say that there's any concrete way of figuring "tiers" out, although rush figures would be one way for the sororities. But then, I can think of many chapters on this campus who would rank lower or higher than their return rates suggest simply because the way rushees view the groups is a little different from the way the rest of campus does.

And I would say on your campus there's also a very distinct bottom two houses - and the others are lumped in the middle. I know this from my GDI friends, so obviously word gets around.

I started to go into in-depth analysis of the two potential "bottom tier" houses and why I disagree but realized that might be a bit much for an online message board where nobody else knows what we're talking about. Suffice it to say that I think the problem with deciding what groups are "bottom tier" is that, unlike at most schools, reputation and numbers don't correlate at the UW. Some of the groups with strong reputations are not the biggest on campus, and vice versa. And I think that is the problem with the two groups I'm assuming you're referring to as the "bottom tier" groups here: one has decent numbers but not a great rep, the other has low numbers but a decent rep. So it's hard to say where they would fall in the spectrum of "tiers" here -- because they are so fluid.

The fraternities would be even more complicated to divide up.

And I think that in general GDIs have an oversimplified view of the Greek system (especially here where they are generally very anti- or at best neutral-Greek) because their view depends entirely on who they know in the Greek system to pass down gossip and news. If you asked most of my friends, they'd probably guess that Kappa, Tri Delt and Pi Phi compose the top tier because they don't know girls in any other groups! . . . it's all relative.

All of which explains one of the reasons why the whole "tier" thing should be taken with a grain of salt.

Quite true!

While every NPC sorority has chapters that are "top," "middle," or "lower" tier on their repective campuses, I am under the impression that some NPC sororities are more likely than others to be in the "top" tier on campuses where they have chapters. This is not a universal rule, of course, and I could be wrong. It also has nothing to do with the quality of the sisterhood, the friendships, and the values of any GLO.

Please note that I'm NOT saying that the "top three, top four or top five" NPC orgs are always in the top tier, just that it's more likely than not that one or two or three of them will be in the top tier if they're on campus. Also, as has been said in many threads, the "traditionally Southern sororities" may constitute a special case in their areas of greatest alumnae concentration and strength.

I hate these types of threads especially when recruitment is around the corner at some schools.

I don't see why this seems to be the prevailing feeling here at GC. Let's face it, at many schools, top/middle/bottom tier is going to be an issue to some people in the Greek system. For those who aren't worried about petty status issues, they won't worry about them regardless of whether or not they know they exist before rush. And for those who ARE worried about status, more likely than not they are already highly aware of what groups fall into which tiers at their school. And if by some chance they aren't, they might as well get used to the idea before they pledge instead of being shocked with it afterwards and depledging when they find out the sorority they joined is at the bottom of the middle tier.


Talking about these subjects doesn't mean any of us endorse them.

That's right, why not talk about it? It's out there...no use pretending it doesn't happen. Don't be afraid! :p

Especially given the fact that this is Spring recruitment coming up and anyone involved will have been on campus for at least a semester. I'd wonder about someone who had been at a school for a few months, wanted to rush, yet didn't know a lot about their own school's greek system.

Ditto.

Let's stop romanticizing Southern Rush (I know you weren't, 33. But it happens so much on this board it's insane!). For some of those schools, the system works for the girls who thrive in that culture. They'll have daughters, and the cycle continues. Most of us don't have to worry about it. :)

I don't mind these threads at all--in fact, I enjoy them. But sometimes we tend to focus on one aspect in particular.

I actually don't agree that mine is the "prevailing feeling here at GC" since I seem to be the only one who posted it. I do see your point though. I still don't like this thread. *shrug*

Indiana University definitly has a tier system.

An interesting thing that I have noticed about this phenomena is where people place themeselves.

Houses at the bottom of the food chain will claim to be a "middle house" while the houses that are in the middle will claim to be a "top house".

None of the bottom houses will say "I belong to a bottom house" and of course the houses that are on top rarely talk about social tiers since they dont really need to. In fact, on average, they tend to be the most laid back about "social tiers". Its all of the crazy middle and bottom tier houses stepping on top of eachother, trying to improve their reputation that cause the anomosity. (was that a runon sentence?)

Our school has so many fraternity and sororities that the hard corps "tier disciples" will even go so far as to break up houses into smaller tiers.

For exampled...."XYZ" sorority isnt a bad sorority, but they're only a lower-middle house so none of the better houses will pair with them" or "I wanted to be in a top fraternity, but I joined ABC...they're not bad...they're at the bottom of the top tier".

I had two sorority friends that loved to talk greek, so I was always kept abreast of the latest social developments.

One thing I positive thing I will say about IU is that it is not impossible to improve your fraternity or sororities social reputation.

It can be tough, especially for sororities, but in my last 2 or 3 years there, I saw 2 or 3 fraternities literally rise from the very bottom to the top class with lots of hard work in recruitment and campus involvement. And when I look at it, their formula was so simple, I'm amazed that a lot of other groups dont try it!

AOII's colonization went very well, as did Phi Sigma Kappa's.

But the thread loves you Cream lol ;)

Thanks James, lol! :D

These things NEVER change. Take it from an oldie but a goodie.
Some of the original 7 NPC groups are also very strong in regions, or even a certain state in a certain region.
Confused? For example, a sorority can be very strong in one state in the South and have membership number concerns in the state they border.
And admittedly, a campus where Greeks are strong will often maintain the same pecking order for years and years based on status quo. Especially so in the sororities.
Fraternities are a different story, in light of the fact that many "top" fraternity houses will get busted and suspended for alcohol and have to shut down for a couple of years. But they come back and find the social order has changed.
Just an observation along with hearing my own kids and their friends talk about their experiences.

Reply To Anchor Alum
 

I enjoyed reading your very interesting comments. You said you heard about some 'top tier' fraternities being kicked out, then returning years later to find that their place in the social order had changed. That certainly sounds reasonbable, but there's actually a rush theory that says the reverse is more often true. It has to be an established system, but here's what happens most often: a chapter will die out or get kicked off, wait their time and then re-colonize, after which the chapter re-establishes itself in it's old place in the heirarchy! I know it doesn't make sense, but that's what happens very often. I know fraternities gone for two, five, even ten years on strong fraternity campuses, that come back and almost overnight re-establish themselves in the same tier they occupied before. Mayeb it has to do with housing (assuming they keep their old home). Maybe it has to do with the expectations of the alumni, or the leadership of the national. I cannot imagine, say, SAE at Alabama leaving then coming back as anything less that what they always have been.

Here, at PSU with 20 orgs, there aren't that many defined tiers, but everyone pretty much knows who the top 3 are. The top 3 can vary year by year, but one org has managed to stay in the top 3 over the years (and I'm not going to name it) but isn't always the most desirable chapter. However, the system is strong enough that you can't really say who's in what tier because things can change quickly and chapters that look weaker on the outside numberswise can be stronger and be more desireable than a larger chapter. Overall, no one is really the strongest and no one is really the weakest here.

Re: Reply To Anchor Alum
 

It has everything to do with housing and alumni support, and nothing to do with "rush theory"

Re: Re: Reply To Anchor Alum
 

Clearly, you're not a woman! :) :)

I mean... if you know how off the wall that sounds to a southern female... hehe... 99.9% of it IS rush theory!

Re: Re: Re: Reply To Anchor Alum
 

I'm refering to dormant chapters returning to campuses and resuming former positions of prestige.

I write this from experience. I was part of a returning group at FSU, and I've been at this long enough to know that if you don't have a house and alumni support, you are basically starting from scratch, and "rush theory" will not by the causal factor in restoring an organization to its former glory.

Also, "rush theory" is a terrible phrase. Rush is to recruitment as cramming for a test is to studying for a test. Any successful GLO does not leave all of its recruitment work for rush week. The best fraternities always have most of there pledge classes lined up before rush week even begins.

With all due respect, russ, fraternity and sorority colonizing are two VASTLY different worlds

So are you saying that national sororities will gladly jump into the process without alumni support?

No, alumnae support is an important part of the picture. But a national sorority will use this element as well as housing as part of a much larger theory of where they see a need on campus, what women they hope to attract, and more.