Hazing Experience
 

I've read through many of the posts in here regarding hazing (okay, I read a lot) and would like to give my opinion on the issue as someone who has been through hazes before.

I never though of myself as someone who would go rush for a fraternity, let alone even showing interest in one. Yet here I was during my second year of college, despite my friends wishes, rushing for a fraternity that I believed would provide me with something which I felt I was lacking in my college experience. I wasn't there for the girls or the booze, just the brotherhood. Oh sure some of my friends tried to change my mind, saying that it will be as if i'm buying friends, or that the fraternity will haze me like there's no tomorrow, and that it's not worth it. I really can't explain it to them, but it's just something I felt I wanted to go through with.

I went out to rush with an open mind, and decided to check out a bunch of the fraternities, yet somehow I was hooked on a certain fraternity that I first looked at and never looked back. The people were friendly, they seemed to hold a lot of the same ideals that I was looking for, and we just totally got a long and had a lot in common. I remember only asking the hazing question once, and should of noticed the warning signs when the member didn't clearly give me an answer, only a half-hearted "not really." I went to the following rushes and ended up receiving a bid. I was totally thrilled and was on a high for a few days, since I thought my college experience was going to be much improved during my days of pledgeship.

We had a lot of same rituals that a lot of you might be familiar with, such as wearing your pins for most of the day, study hours, work outs, and different "events." Right from the first day of pledging, most of the members took on a different gameface. They would get up in your face, many times screaming so loud and furiously you can feel their spit hitting you head on. Some of the things we had to deal with were constantly being locked in a bathroom as a group while being blindfolded listening to music blaring, lead to places outside of the house (still blinded) and forced to do certain things which I will not go into detail, working out til we feel we are going to pass out, consume large quantities of alcohol, or dropped off somewhere miles from the house and forced to find our way back home.

I put up with this for weeks, and feel so angry and disappointed at myself for putting with this kind of sh1t. I didn't do it because I wanted to "belong", but I looked at is as a test of my masculinity and my loyalty to my pledgeclass. However, in time I started to realize that I am selling myself short by allowing myself to endure these things. I eventually de-pledged, not before telling each of my pledge bro's my reasoning behind the decision. I knew I was doing the right thing when they couldn't give me a real reason why I should continue the pledging.

To this very day, the pledging period has an effect on me, as I still go into fits of anger and sadness thinking about all the things that happened during my pledging quarter. Why was I so weak to let myself be put in situations where I can endanger myself, and end up hurting my real friends and family members? I am glad I dp'ed though, because that is not the type of brotherhood I would ever want. Don't fking kick and beat my spirit down to the ground and then at the end of the day telling me I'm a true soldier and that I should never give up....this isn't the damn military and no one should put up with this when pledging for a fraternity. Why must I be broken down physically and emotionally so that you can laugh and try to make me dp, only to give me a pat on the back at the end of the day and wait for tomorrow so that you can try to make me suffer again?

There were many members that seemed to enjoy seeing our pledge class suffer, insulting us verbally and making us suffer physically during workouts while attacking our emotions with various techniques. Then there are those actives who are there to encourage you and give you words of wisdom. This just makes everything more complicated during pledging for me, since I wonder why everyone can't be like the second group, the ones who encourage you to succeed and work together as a group, rather than the ones who only want you to break up. I guess the second group of guys is what made me decide to take the abuse longer than I should have, since I can really feel a connection with them. In the end, it wasn't worth it though.

However despite all of this, I believe hazing in a fraternity is something that can be beneficial to achieving brotherhood/sisterhood. However, to what degree of hazing? That is the main question. I'm sure you've all seen this already, from collecting signatures or having friendly scavenger hunts, when is hazing not acceptable? I believe as long as the fraternity realizes to what degree hazing is acceptable that it can really help the house and the pledges learn/respect each other more. But when you cross the line and do things that are just plain mindless, steps must be taken. Who is going to be around to tell you what is acceptable or not though? You never really hear about the hazing that is beneficial to the fraternities/sororities...no, we only see the hazing that causes emotional trauma, injuries, and sadly death. Arggh, I'm kind of rambling now and lost my train of thought, sorry if I confused any of you. The main point I'm getting at is some forms of hazing is healthful and a necessity, while others are just plain cruel and stupid.

I don't see myself reporting this fraternity into my school though, since I feel that almost everything that was done to me was voluntarily, I always had the choice to leave. It doesn't help that some of my close friends just crossed into the house and they have been through so much. I just regret putting in the time and effort for an organization that I don't believe in.

There are some other frats which I am still interested in yet haven't known a lot about since I only rushed for one frat during the fall quarter. However after all that I've been through, I don't know if I can handle the emotion and work involved to rush again, mainly because a lot of my faith has been lost due to one bad experience. I just hope this post can give you some insight from someone who's on the other side of hazing.

I am sorry to hear of your horrible experience and I must say that if anything like that had been done to me, I too would have de-pledged. I would encourage you to report this however. There is zero tolerance for hazing among National GLOs and Universities and it will only continue for others if nobody stands up and puts a stop to it. I remember going through my "pledge" period with this whole list of things in my head that "if they do this to me..", I would depledge. I was in tears the week before Initiation, convinced that was the week I was going to be hazed and have to quit and I really had enjoyed the women of my sorority. It was going to be so sad to say goodbye to them. To my delight and amazement, the hazing never happened and in April, I will have been a member of AGD for 20 years. I am still active in an alumnae club and as a volunteer for AGD. I disagree that some hazing is necessary. Somehow, I developed a love and dedication for AGD that will never end, without being hazed, but by being respected, loved and nurtured.

Dee

I hope you will step up
 

If you like this fraternity and some of the members, you can be a real man by stepping up and reporting them. You can prevent the fraternity, and national GLO, and all of us undergrads and alumni from having to suffer another huge nation-wide blast of rotten publicity when something goes wrong, when some pledge with an unknown heart problem dies, when some pledge is killed in a traffic accident while being dropped off, when a drunk pledge falls down the stairs and dies, and when who knows what happens.

You could probably keep your name out of it, but the dean or someone is going to have to know who is reporting the hazing.

You might contact the GLO's national office direct. They are more likely to solve the problem with a few ejections and training, while the campus dean is more likely to just cut 'em off at the knees and close the chapter.

Hopefully, the chapter can be counseled and changed. Perhaps some leaders will have to go. Perhaps the charter would be suspended for a while.

For the good of the fraternity system, and for the decency of young men to come, hazing must be stopped.

You are in a position to help a lot of us, and I hope you will step up.

No truer words were spoken than by the previous posts.:)

When I started my Local which affiliated with LXA, that was the spoken word. "No Hazing". But it has come to the point where a Chapter cannot hold mandatory study times for New Associates.

While I for one totally disagree with this for several reasons:

1. You must have Your Grades to be Initiated
2. Have Your Grades to Stay Active.
3. Have Your grades to go for the Highest GPA on Campus for Your Organization.
4. Last but not least, have Your Grades to Graduate.

It is not my Call, but LXA Internationals Call.

I will follow what They say as I am a Brother of LXA.

As far as the other things,:( , this is uncalled for and I agree, contact the National Hdq. and tell them why you quit.

I am sure they would be very unhappy with any situation like this.! I am sure that they would send ELCs down to work with them and get this straighted our!

I know there have been Situations where a Chapter of LXA has done some of this and there is hell to pay!

Unless they get it together, they will not be there long!

I would take a look around again, there are alot of Great Fraternitys out there with a lot of Great Members.

You are so right, being in member of a Greek Organization can mean so much! Maybe not just the Magic 4/5 years of College, but for Life!

As you read through the threads, look to see how many have Alum after their Sig.

I have been doing with mine for 38 years!










:) :cool: :cool:

sorry you had that experience and probably think greeks are a bunch of jerkoffs. were not, you just ended up with the wrong group of guys. the pledge process is one thats supposed to help you grow in your knowledge and love of the fraternity, not your tolerance for taking shit and drinking.

can anyone explain what hazing with alcohol accomplishes?

Nope.

While reporting your treatment will probably mean that the chapter will be put on probation (at the least), or possibly lose its charter, it should be done.

That kind of treatment was not at all uncommon when I pledged in the 60's, but should be long forgotten history by now.

Just wonder why, you posted on here???

From Orlando, backwards is cloudy sign in name. DA!

Makes one wonder do it not?

Who sang the Song "Balls To The Wall?'.

Re: I hope you will step up
 

Great advice. Organizations like the one you dp'd are a blemish on the fraternal world. If you can get their HQ involved, perhaps you can bring something good out of your bad experience.

I wondered what "BTTW" meant
 

I wondered what "BTTW" meant, and Google told me:

"Meaning
_ _ Fast - at full throttle.
Origin
_ _ Not related to testicles as you might think. Possibly the balls are the knobs on aircraft joy sticks. Pushing them as far as they can go, i.e. against the wall of the plane, caused it to go as fast as possible. "

Since this is not an aircraft forum, what shall we do?

hoosier, do ignore sound like a good word!:confused: ;)

Got reall quiet on here did it not?

Some hazing is needed.

Yep I said it, however it's true. Now beating or physically hurting pledges its stupid beyond belief, however having required meetings, study hours, and exercise such as morning runs, etc. is fine as for "lock-ins" they can be fine to, along with lineups. When you make it through pledging it shouldn't be easy there should be trials and tribulations. You will be closer to your pledge class and feel a sense that you earned it instead of having it handed to you like some fraternities who use the AM or Associate Member term and don't even require the AMs to attend events.

Oh yeah and despite depledging (despining) man up and don't report them its just...well...a dick thing to do.

No hazing is ever needed.

Reporting it is the responsible thing to do.

Required meetings and study hours are not hazing if they are required of all members and are at reasonable hours.

Your biological family didn't haze you in order to bond with you, why would haze your fraternal family?

Those attitudes are the attitudes that get GLOs closed.

Dee

Being one of the "old" guys on the board who grew up when hazing was "accepted," I absolutely agree!

Further, having been an advisor and division officer, I will say again that I can find NO indication that hazing is good for brotherhood.

The only thing I can find that hazing IS good for is getting chapters closed.

Without hazing you might as well just join a book club, every organization worth joining is worth the hard work to make it through pledging and most especially hell week.

Without Hazing, your insurance will be lower

Without hazing, your national organization might be richer, and they will be able to grow quicker

Without hazing, many school that eliminated GLOs (Alfred, etc) might have no reason to banned them

Without hazing, Scott Kruger, Walter Dean Jennings, etc will still be alive today.

And without hazing or at least having to work hard to get in instead of following some BS associate member path or being a brother immediately I wouldn't have done it. Anything worth doing is worth working for. I am just one of those people who doesn't like having everything handed to me go figure...

Sorry Godfather, I've seen both sides of this firsthand and that argument is trite and old news. If the system is going to survive, hazing has to be eliminated.

You can pontificate all you want, but if you want your fraternity to be around for future brothers benefit you (meaning your chapter) had better get with the program.

If you are in a mainline national fraternity, I know that your nationals has a policy against hazing. Every single one does. What makes you think that you and your undergraduate brothers know and care more about your organization than your alumni and executive officers?

When you took your fraternal oath, you probably swore to never do anything to hurt or threaten the future of the organization.

Take a look at these threads and see what happens to hazing chapters. But do it with open eyes and an open mind.

I take it by your words associate and just joining you are Refering to LXA!

Well, LXA was the First to Drop "Pledge", I am very proud of that even though I did not agree at the time!

I get the feeling no matter how many things are said on this thread, you are not smart enough to see the finer points of it.:(

You may carry on in your delusional attitued of I am right and everyone else is wrong!:eek:

I can see a bleak future for you and your Chapter if you have a Fraternity, for if they find this out, Well, take your best guess! If you are able to read, you can see the Chapters of Fraternitys/Soroitys who are being closed for this very thing that you call building a Bro/Sis Hood! :(

My chapter has been around since 1885 but yeah out methods must not work...wait that would mean we've been around longer than most frats let alone most chapters.

That might be true, but, I did not know that Your Fraternity was a FRAT?

That might be why Your Frat is not the only one of the Greek Social Organizations! Clue!

The Miami Triad was after The Union Triad if you know your Greek Social History!

Yes, I am well aware of When Your "Fraternity" was started and who else was started there and the same year.

So I guess, you are not that special after all!;)

I have a lot of respect for your "Fraternity", much more than it seems that you have for others!:(

In reading your posts, I guess you are a new member, and think You are the best!

Well, when you grow a bit, you will find that yours is not the only one!

Lets just see after a few years that you do not get a little wiser!;)

If you notice, there are a lot of Alums after signatures!

Self Importance can at times be very underwhelming!

Live and learn, you too may grow old and find out what the real world is!:D

Is Arcon the right spelling?

yea right, you're trying to sound hard to people who could give a rat's ass about you. there are plenty of people on here who probably had a process that makes yours look like a joke.

And posting things on Greekchat like you usually do is just....well...a dick thing to do. :p

Hazing is NEVER necessary. I was not hazed. It was nothing but a positive experience for me. Instead of trying to bond us with stupid hazing incidents, we bonded through sisterhood activities and took tests about SAI. We earned our letters too, but there was no hazing, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I can say that with or without hazing, you can develop an extremely tight brotherhood. My chapter does not haze at all. When I attend chapter meetings, to this day, I'm amazed at the level of brotherhood and involvement that our undergrads have in eachothers' lives. I'm amazed at their dedication to Sigma Nu's principles of Love, Honor and Truth. I can't see how you could ever justify hazing and say that you had any respect for love, honor and truth. Our alum chapter is pretty tight as well.

If ya'll have truly been around since 1885 then congratulations! However, you should realize and your alums should be made to realize that in the 21st century, a few things have changed since 1885. For the longevity of your chapter, I urge you to consider revamping your new member education program.

There are certainly things you can do with your new members without hazing, sleep deprivation, etc. to make them "earn" their letters. Trust me, not everyone that wants into my chapter of Sigma Nu makes it either. They must show real dedication to our values.

Impressive.

My chapter has been around continuously since 1862. It is the longest continuously active chapter in our Fraternity (I don't belong to a "frat") which was founded in 1858. It has stopped hazing in order to survive in the new Greek, risk management and university climate. I'll just say one more time, if you folks don't, you will sooner or later join the others listed here in this forum and we will all shake our heads sadly at another loss to the Greek System.

To the other posters -- while I'm not crazy about Godfather's comments and style, I also object to calling people we don't really know ignorant or liars. (He is probably a decent, although misguided guy) Those are highly charged words, and are really personal attacks. I wish I had the power to ban those words from GC. If normal conversation and/or debate doesn't change his mind, heated rhetoric isn't going to either.

I guess this just proves some chapters are different from the norm. Delta has the longest pledge period of any frat and is supposedly the hardest hazing frat on campus, go figure...

If by "different from the norm" you mean they haze, when they know they shouldn't (either from a rules/policies perspective, or perhaps by simple common sense), then I'd rather be part of the norm.

If you feel hazing is SO important that it can't be eliminated without destroying your chapter, why don't you go ahead and advertise the fact - "join our fraternity - we'll humiliate and beat the crap out of you to make you a 'real' man!"...see what kind of response you get from PM's and the rest of the greek/campus community...

k this is a bit of a hijack which might actually be a good thing but i'm sorry is there sthg wrong w/ referring to a fraternity as a frat? some ppl in this post seem to be offended at fraternities being called frats and i've never heard of that before...:confused:

I'm a little confused by your response, but if you're talking about a Delta Tau Delta chapter, and they get caught for the hazing that you claim, they will be closed.

Yes, "frat" is considered a term used for highly dysfunctional chapters with huge risk management issues. It is a pejorative term.

We don't lay a hand on our pledges, nor do we force them to drink, as I already said. Exercise and making them memorize things (With the consequence of getting yelled at, etc.) is an entirely different animal.

Many on GC might not disagree with the above except for two rather important issues.

First, they are against your organizations rules.

Second, they are against the law.

It's unfortunate that seemingly innocent things are considered hazing -- but we brought the rules on ourselves by letting hazing get way out of hand.

So, the bottom line is that if you haze and get caught, you're history.

Edited to add...

I'm sitting here in a slow burn, so I guess it's worth putting this on the table as well.

One of the things that really ticks me off about the arrogance of chapters when it comes to hazing is that, in the long run, it is someone like me or another alum who has to go investigate charges and decide on the fate of the chapter. That really sucks! We are a part of your brotherhood. It is one of the hardest things you can imagine to face. We don't want to close chapters! Why would anyone imagine that someone who has worked for years, as a volunteer, for the Fraternity would want to weaken it?

Nobody wants to be put in that position, but the stupidity of people who simply won't comply with the clearly stated rules and/or the laws of the city or state bring these penalties on themselves -- and then whine about how awful and unfair nationals or the university administration or the Chapter Advisor or the House Corporation or the Division officers or the university police or the city police are.

The rules are there. The laws are in place. Just grow up and obey them. Or work to get them changed.

So, if I read this correctly, you're saying "it's OK - we only haze them in specific ways, not in others...", correct?

That's like saying "I'm only a little bit pregnant" :rolleyes:

What starts or seems to be only harmless pranks will eventually escalate, with no one in the chapter noticing the slight, yet ever ocurring, escalation, will eventually lead to disaster.

The real scary part is the forced exercise - what if? What if someone has a physical ailment that they don't disclose, even if asked? (heart condition, diabetes, epilepsy - all aggravated by stress (e.g. exercise)). What if something happens? The chapter WILL be held accountable, even with the lame excuse of "we didn't know" being offered.

The "different animal" you describe is still a dangerous one, and, given time, WILL bite you in the end.

DA, you're right - closing a chapter is something we ever WANT to see happen, but, for the greater good, sometimes it's the ONLY thing to do to wake up the remaining chapters of the fraternity that certain behavior is against the rules, and the rules must be enforced.

As I've said before, we are all somewhat responsible for the creation of today's hazing issues...what DA may have gone through in years past, described has "fun" or "harmless" activities, or to other members in this forum, have unfortunately escalated to the dangerous practices that make headlines and take lives today. If we are to move forward, we have to take whatever actions necessary to ensure that BROTHERHOOD is emphasized, not the humiliating activities that are purported to promote it, but instead promote the opposite: anger, divisiveness, and resentment.

So, please answer my original question: If you feel hazing is SO important that it can't be eliminated without destroying your chapter, why don't you go ahead and advertise the fact - "join our fraternity - we'll humiliate and beat the crap out of you to make you a 'real' man!"?

I do not beleive Your Fraterity specifically chooses what Chapters can do certain things that are against National Rules! Or for that fact any Chapter.

No matter What "Fraternity" SX, LXA, or DTD to use the three that have been mentioned, it still boils down the the fact that that those that Haze cost their Fraternity money in the long run.

You try to make a point, but you have a lost cause here in GC! Yes I am sure We all wish that We Could Force the New Associates (Not Pledges( to us, that while it is important that Grades are very important in so many ways to at the final Graduate from College, it is still hazing to force them to! That basically is Hazing!

Forcing The New Members to Do something that is not expected for All, then it becomes Hazing!

Oh, by the way, "Frat" is truely not an endearing term, not for the "perjative" or the word for small Chapters!:mad:

It is used in a derogatory Term for People Who Do Not Know Better!

:eek:

If you are going to post, then please understand the words you are using!

clearly, this young man doesn't practice a whole lot of "discretion." ever stop to think that one of your frat's national officers could be on this site?

It's results that matter. My chapter was refounded my freshman year and tripled in size. Every brother that graduated has placed in top jobs across the world and amazing law/med schools. We've all had tons of fun, dated sorority girls, won awards, gone to convention. And somehow we can all tell you about our founding, the founders - our brothers can recite backwards small details such as hometowns of founders. We always followed a mantra of doing things we felt comfortable telling parents about. Because of our efforts, we were rewarded nationally with cash grants and had our dues reduced slightly even.

What did your chapter do that it was so great? Are you really that great that you can brag?

This isn't some stupid military experience. The fact that people treat their houses like they went through a gang initiation is ridiculous. While bragging about who has it rougher, there are houses out there bragging about who has it better...about which houses have brothers that stayed up with a pledge to read their history book for a class they weren't even in to help them study and do well, the houses that have fun parties and don't need to brag that they had to earn it - they earned it by being great men and showed it by what they were after they graduated.

-Rudey

Every once in awhile, we'll get someone like this on GC. My favorite thing is that althoug they are "proud" of their "tradition" and loyalty and blah blah blah, they are afraid to tell us what organization and what chapter they belong to.

Maybe worried national officers will find out?

Why should a chapter be doing something that their national officers would disapprove of?

How is that respectful to the organization?

Sounds pretty arrogant to me.

Rudey,

That post makes me proud to know you, even if I only know you online.

Great point! Thanks, Rudey.