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A little confused
Let me begin by saying that I am not here to trash sororities. I can understand and appreciate the fact that sororities can and do contribute something positive to a community. And I also respect the fact that sororities provide a unique environment in which friendship and commitment flourish. But I do find one particular aspect of the greek system VERY disturbing.
I recently visited various sorority websites at www.greekpages.com and discovered a common thread within every creed/mission. Most sororities claim that they promote things such as high principles of behavior or moral, mental, and social advancement. I think this is a load of absolute shit. Allow me to explain why….and bear with me, as there is a bit of background I must provide. My boyfriend recently moved away to open up a bar&grill right near a major university. His business has been open for just about two months now and has mainly attracted people from the Greek system. So, in other words, it's a total Greek hangout. During the first couple of weeks that the bar was open, my boyfriend would call me and tell me crazy stories about how flirtatious and sexually outward several of the sorority girls were with him. A few of them had even asked to go home with him….making it very obvious that all they were interested in was sex. Sounds like the sororities aren't doing too good of a job instilling morals and standards in these girls. But the story gets worse. There was one particular sorority girl that my boyfriend had hired as a bartender the first week the bar was open. Well, two weeks later, he and this girl were hanging out drinking with a group of people up at his bar…..by the end of the night, they ended up sleeping together. Now, granted, my boyfriend screwed up bigtime and there is no excuse for what he did ….but it also takes two to tango. What gets me is that this sorority girl knew that he had a girlfriend. Hell, I had even called up the bar and TALKED to this girl on the phone. Furthermore, the girl (excuse the vulgarity) spread her legs for some guy she has not even known for two weeks! And she didn't even bother to use a condom! Obviously, this girl lacks morals, standards and self respect. Oh….but there's more! A week later, some of my boyfriend's friends came to visit him. This crazy girl actually propositioned TWO of his friends for sex. Then, a day later, this same "lovely" little sorority girl ended up getting fired for bringing in her OWN bottle of vodka into the bar. So much for this girl's sorority promoting high principle of behavior!!!! You know, if sororities are going to boast that they help their members attain high moral, mental, and social standards, then these girls need to represent their organizations a hell of a lot better. These sorority girls that act slutty and are promiscuous with whoever, whenever are TOTALLY disrespecting their greek name. Either these girls need to take what they've learned for their sorority and act like classy LADIES….or the sororities need to change their creed or mission statement by omitting the statement that they strive for moral excellence. Thank you for your consideration. |
First of all, the actions of ONE person from a particular group does not speak for the ENTIRE organization or EVERY like organization. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif Secondly, what you are saying is akin to perpetuating all the negative stereotypes people have about sororities and fraternities.
Believe me when I say that MOST if not ALL GLO's uphold and stand by their goals and ideals. An individual who violates these ideals may face reprecussions from their chapter or even nationals. My point is, you wouldn't know because you are not directly involved with this organization. I feel badly that your boyfriend cheated on you. But let's face reality. Had she NOT been in a sorority would he have ignored her come-ons? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I don't think so. Deal with the REAL issue at hand. It has NOTHING to do with a lack of morals on the part of women in sororities. I know I speak for my GLO sisters when I say we WEAR our letters PROUDLY and with the UTMOST respect. (Even when we don't have letters ON.) WE represent our organzations with PRIDE and HONOR 24/7. We have made a LIFETIME commitment to our organizations and as such, we carry ourselves in accordance with our ideals. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif We cannot be resposible for every individual who is in a GLO that has a lapse in judgement. Having said this, Butterfly, please stop perpetuating STEREOTYPES! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Serena (Serene) #2 Sigma Lambda Upsilon/Senoritas Latinas Unidas Sorority, Inc. [This message has been edited by Serenity (edited April 07, 2000).] |
Butterfly
GIRL YOU ARE IN DENIAL ABOUT YOUR CRAPPY BOYFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!! "What gets me is that this sorority girl knew that he had a girlfriend. Hell, I had even called up the bar and TALKED to this girl on the phone. Furthermore, the girl (excuse the vulgarity) spread her legs for some guy she has not even known for two weeks! And she didn't even bother to use a condom! Obviously, this girl lacks morals, standards and self respect. Oh….but there's more!" Your "boyfriend" KNEW he had a girlfriend! Your "boyfriend" slept with some girl he hadn't even known for two weeks! Your "boyfriend" is the one that didn't bother to use the condom! Obviously, this boy lacks morals, standards and self respect! Dump that loser and get your ass to therapy because you obviously have problems if you took him back! |
Don't trash sororities because of your bad experience with a few of their girls. What kind of ideals do you expect? Getting wasted and having sex every Friday night? I hate it when people overgeneralize. It's the same thing as the way the media views fraternities: as Animal House partyers. Ditch your moron boyfriend and get someone who actually loves you, Butterfly.
------------------ andrew watters Theta Chi – ucla |
Butterfly,
I too am non-Greek, but feel you are being extremely harsh in your post. You have based your ideas of all sororities on one bad 'seed'. Every organization (Greek or not) has members that you could consider bad & that give the organization a bad name & you happened to met one. I spent this afternoon with girls from a sorority I am interesting in rushing & can honestly say that I've never met a nicer group of girls that have accomplished more than the non-Greeks I know. I'm sorry about your situation & am sorry that your main encounter with sororities was a bad one, but I don't agree with your general view of sororites. Allison ------------------ A mistake at least proves that somebody stopped talking long enough to do something. ~ Anonymous |
It seems like whenever you have readily identifiable symbols with a group or its ideals, such as letters, any one person associated with those symbols can make or break the image of that group. However one person is not the entire group. And I don't think any greek organization is bragging that its members are perfect to their standards; the way I see it, the ideals and goals of any house are goals and ideals to try and live up to. It's a works in progress.
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That was beautifully said equeen. I posted something a while back on March 15th, I was sick and tired of people trashing other sororities becauseif you think about it you are just representing your organization in a negative light. People totally misinterpreted what I was trying to say.
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thanks haynestammy! It took me a while to realize this. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif I was of a completely different mind when I first started college- I thought I would never go greek because of all the negative things I "knew" about greeks. And then I discovered that behind the --sometimes true, more often not-- negative sterotypes were sisters and brothers for *life*...and it was the values and ideals of their respective GLO that brought them together. I found that to be beautiful; I wanted and needed to be a parted of something like that. Late in my freshman year, I found the sisterhood in which reflects my personal values, and they agreed that I matched their ideals and goals. So six months after swearing off of greek like, there I was starting a chapter, along with a bunch of like-minded woman (I think of the Chapter's 18 Founders, only two had ever rushed; the rest were dead set against anything greek...until they came across our sisterhood.)
Life is beautiful.... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif |
you know, equeen if i were to give an educated guess.. i would say about 95% of my chapter was made up of similar folk... people who never even entertained the thought of rushing before finding our organization. And that might be a little low!
------------------ SilverTurtle@greekchat.com Phi Beta Fraternity |
hey equeen,
what sorority are you apart of if you don't mind me asking |
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My question is, why do people feel it necessary to seek out a greek network, just to put us down? What equeen had to say was beautifuly put. Our creeds and ideals are a work in progress. If we ever achieved them, there would be nothing for us to do, we would be perfect. I really am surprised at the amount of people who actually believe that it is because girls are in a sorority that their morals aren't as high as some or that they have multiple partners. It could never be because of upbringing, or their individuality, or even how nieve they are. Girls do not instantly become "sluts" when they are initiated. It doesn't come with the letters. I think that it is unfortunate that girls do become a bit excessive, and I believe that the young lady that butterfly is telling us about fits that title. It is, however, unfortunate that men do the same as well. There are a lot of women out there, maybe more, that aren't in a sorority that are "sluts" by the definition that we are speaking of. Girls in a sorority for the most part do not meet this definition.
I'm sorry butterfly that this happened to you. I realize that you now have a bad image of greek life, but realize also that you are looking at this from one perspective, the perspective of a heartbroken woman. It's sad that this had to happen to you, but you also must realize that this could have been ANY woman, greek or not, that tried to seduce you boyfriend. I doubt that you boyfriend fell victum to this girl based on the fact that she was a member of a sorority. Instead of holding a vengence toward greeks for what happened to you, maybe you should step back and reevaluate what happened. You are right, it does take two to tango, but your boyfriend is the one who cheated on you. He's the one that broke your trust. The girl hardly knew you, she didn't care! I would be more mad at my boyfriend than at the girl he slept with. If you are upset by the responses you have recieved, all I can say is: what did you expect? Nobody is happy this happened, and it does give us a bad name, but we still have to defend the organizations we believe in. Read what equeen had to say, she put it beautifly that our creeds and ideals are a work in progress, if we ever truly achieved them, we would be perfect. ------------------ Mikki Gates Delta Zeta Alum Kappa Mu Chapter Sigma Alpha Iota Alum Eta Tau Chapter "I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." --Julia Roberts (Steel Magnolias) Visit me at: http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html and http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml |
While you state in the first paragraph of your message that you are not here to trash sororities, that is exactly what you did. And while I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from in your hostility towards the girl who your boyfriend cheated on you with (been there.. ugh). You are totally blaming the wrong person here. I realize this has already been said by another person, but really.. your boyfriend is definately as much to blame (if not more in my opinion) as the girl. HE didn't remove himself from a situation that HE should not have been in. Not defending her by any means, but she didn't make any moves that I'm sure, that she felt wouldn't be returned. So it sounds like to me, he was putting his feelers out (no pun intended) just as much as she was. It is very easy to hate her and blame her - sorority or not. You didn't love her and trust her. Being cheated on just plain sucks, there's no avoiding that, but really, is it necessary to come on this chat and completely smash on sororities and morals, etc. I know just as many independents that are holding their own in the "slut" category as are women who wear greek letters... slutness doesn't discriminate. I hope you are able to get over this and move on. It will take a lot, and for God's sake... DO NOT take the guy back.. ugh. Not only did he cheat on you, but he gave you daily updates on how flirty the girls were with him.. really. Good luck.
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Butterfly, I think everyone here has addressed your issue accurately. I too am sorry that you had that experience and I hope that I do not sound harsh because I know that being cheated on hurts badly. You have to focus on the individual (s) here. Her sorority did not instill her morals. We could say that maybe she was always promiscious but kept it undercover until she got her letters, or maybe she was hurt after she received her letters and became promiscious, or perhaps she used to think of herself as a "nobody" and recieving her letters makes her think that she has the power to do whatever to whomever... who knows why she did what she did? If she's blonde, should we then say all blondes perpetuate the image of being slutty, or perhaps she goes to church and these churches should do a better job at teaching it's members morals or better yet let's jump straight to the source and just blame her parents... See how silly that sounds? Her sorority can no more control her poor judgement than your parents can control what you do outside of their home. All they can do is deal with her once they find out the type of image she is perpetuating. We all have our "black sheep". Focus on the individual. And really, I understand honesty in a relationship, but why was your boyfriend feeding you stories about these sorority girls that were coming on to him? Is HE fascinated by them, or was he attempting to shift the focus away from himself? You're right, he screwed up big time, and probably would have cheated on you anyway --- she was just easily accessible, however at this point, I would think his credibility is shot. Food for thought --- maybe he told her that you guys had broken up or that he was very unhappy with the relationship...
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You are being ridiculous. Sorority girl or not, he did her. I doubt that her "letters" turned him on! He did it! Plain and simple. He also did not use a condom.
Sounds like you have bigger problems with your boyfriend, and shouldn't be taking it out on sororities as a whole. ------------------ *Michelle* Alpha Xi Delta sister Univ. of Central Oklahoma |
dump the jerkoff, and don't put the stereotypes on us...
------------------ D.D.? - Designated Driver ? |
Butterfly, sucks to be you!! Anyway, it sounds like you are in denial about your boyfriend.
Sororities are not to be blamed because of this girls indiscretion. If she's promiscuous, then so be it. It could have very well been another woman that was just as promiscuous. Of course this girls actions do not reflect her sororities beliefs and standards. Get over it and stop finding other reasons for your anger other than you just have a cheating boyfriend. ------------------ *selah* |
Butterfly,
I really can't stand people who jump to conclusions like yours. So there are a few bad apples on one campus that really doesn't speak for each and every greek organization throughout North America. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif |
Do NOT speak badly of an organination of which I am proudly a member because your boyfriend can't keep his fly zipped. The sorority system isn't wrong, your realationship is. If you want too look for a place to lay the blame look no farther than your so-called realationship. YOUR BOYFRIEND is the slut here. --
A PROUD DELTA GAMMA VIRGIN UNTIL MARRIGE |
Butterfly,
After reading your last post, I can understand why the soror's would feel as if you're generalizing and associating them with being ho's. Your man played you and the other girl for sex. Yes you and she should be pissed. It appears that since she happened to be in a sorority, it seemed to have pressed your little "hate greek" buttons. Well you are mad at the wrong person. Hell I wouldn't be shocked if you're still seeing the guy in some capacity. My advice: Take it to Ricki Lake, it's not for us to review you personal business. If you put it out there then expect us speak up. As far as the greeks responsibility to improve people and all that other nonsense, I can only speak my frat. when I say, we expect you to come the table correct. We don't make you better or worse. You are supposed to have it together when you step to us. Yes, when you represent the frat, yoiu need to have your "A Game" ready. But then you need to take what you have learned and apply it to life to maybe enhance who you are. But I as a member of a greek lettered org. I am not responsible for making people better. That's crazy. You want to be better join the Army and "Be All You Can Be". Peace! |
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I hope you're getting my point. Sure, I knew a few sorority girls in college who fit this description, but I think if I compared that percentage of them w/ the percentage of trashy, slutty non-sorority girls, the results would be surprising to you. People are offended because you came across as coming on here, telling us about your trashy, slutty boyfriend, and blaming it on sororities for not 'training' their women better. Whether that's what you meant or not, that's what I understood it as. It's unfortunate that your boyfriend screwed up + cheated, but that's between him and you. Don't let this girl's involvement w/ him reflect your opinion of every Greek you meet for the rest of your life. ------------------ SilverTurtle@greekchat.com Phi Beta Fraternity Phi chapter [This message has been edited by SilverTurtle (edited May 11, 2000).] |
Look, all of you, I KNOW my boyfriend screwed up......BIGTIME. I am NOT taking the blame away from him. He was the one that made the choice to have sex with that girl. His lack of judgement and morals is a WHOLE different story. Sorry if I came across as blaming sorority girls. My point was that I can't believe HOW many girls involved in sororities are trashy, slutty and lack any kind of morals whatsoever. I know that just because a large number of sluts are involved in the Greek system doesn't mean that EVERY sorority girl is promiscuous. That wasn't my point. I'm not that freaking ignorant. I am just saddened by the fact that these promiscuous girls are so lost....and its even more sad that the productive and constructive aspects of the sororities that they may be a part of aren't helping them to become better people. THAT was my point. The Greek system is supposed to help build character....help refine you and make you a better person.Apparently that isn't the case for the sluts of the Greek world.
>: ( |
Hmm, making the a generalization statement about a group from one experience. My advisor would have a field day with you. Let see, if I used your logic, I could safely say, everybody driving a BMW is a coke head who swindle old ladies saving to a stock that nose dive. Or better yet, we could replaced that with a race, creed, color, sexual orientation, etc... Your logic is illogical. Hence you need to step back, reassesed (did I spell that right?) your argument, and come back with a valid argument.
Let see, only 20 post to go before I'm a senior member. ------------------ What ever you do, take care of your shoes -Phish |
Butterfly, are you sure that you're not just using the fact that this girl was in a sorority as a way to trash her? Yes, she did do some seriously questionable things, but like you said, it takes two to tango. Why isn't your ex-boyfriend the dirty one for having unprotected sex with someone that he had known for only a couple of weeks? I am sorry if your heart was broken,and I can understand that you have a lot of hostility towards the girl, but don't trash her organization (or sororities as a whole) in an effort to get back at her.
S.O.T.L. Spr.99 |
BUTTERFLY,
YOU NEED TO FACE THE FACT THAT YOUR ISSUE IS WITH YOUR BOYFRIEND. HOW COULD YOU COME ON THIS FORUM AND GET SO PERSONAL. WE ARE ON A NEED TO KNOW BASIS. YOU SHOULD BE CALLING YOUR BOYFRIEND A HO AND I HOPE YOU MADE HIM YOUR EX BECAUSE IN THE END YOU ARE THE STUPID ONE. |
Practice what you preach....if you don't want me stereotyping and speaking badly of YOUR organization, then don't do it yourself. You just called my boyfriend a slut. That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? He had a one night stand.....so instantly he is a slut. Hmmmm....sounds just like the logic other's are throwing my way about my opinion on sororities. Guess I'm not the only one guilty of stereotyping and jumping to conclusions.
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Again, my point has been missed. I AM NOT GENERALIZING ABOUT AN ENTIRE group from one bad experience. I was simply commenting on how many promiscuous girls are involved in sororities. I NEVER EVER said that just because a girl is in a sorority, she must be a slut. READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN! I am not that ignorant.Give me a break. Learn to comprehend what you are reading next time.
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I do think that my boyfriend is disgusting because of what he did. I did not bring up that side of the situation because I chose not to. What he did is even worse that what that girl did...I know that. I wasn't ever trying to trash sororities as a whole...or even that girl's sorority. I was just commenting on how its a bit disappointing that the positive aspects of being in a sorority can't and don't always help all of those involved in it. That's all. Yes, I am angry and bitter, I will admit that. And perhaps in light of my anger, I didn't make my arguement very clear.
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the sorority girl had no commitment, unspoken or otherwise, to you. true, she is sleazy, but she didn't cheat on anyone or break any promises. your boyfriend did. he shoulders at least 75% of the guilt here.
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Butterfly,
I can hear the pain in your situation, and I pray that God sends angels of healing to you, and that you are able to recieve them. As for your opinion of "slutty sorority girls" two things 1) Why didn't you attribute the "slut factor" to the university? You said that it was the greeks from a nearby university, It would seem to me that they were more alike in that way than in a greek way. It sounds like you had some grudges against greekdom anyway. 2) So what if ALL sorority girls were total HOES!!! What does that have to do with you? We are a closed society unto ourselves. Our ways and training and culture are not ment to be understood or even liked by everyone. That's not even the goal. If you feel that sororities don't do a good enough job of training young ladies, you've got two choices, join and change them from the inside out, or leave us alone. But I will tell you this, If you are on a kick about the morals of young women today, why would you start with the ones who are in college, trying to make a better life for themselves, committed to public service, in bonds of sisterhood, and (at least striving) for excellence? It would seem to me that you'd make a better impact on our Teenage mothers and child crack addicts. ------------------ If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown |
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-how could some married people with homes, kids and EVERYTHING TO LOSE cheat on their spouses? -how could some members of the clergy who are AGENTS of GOD molest minors? -how could the President of the United States (Clinton, Kennedy or any of 'em) have a dalliance on the side, when he is a role model for America? I could go on but I am sure that you catch my drift. My point is: people are human. They get horny, they make bad decisions and they screw up. It sucks, but that is life. Learn from what has happened and try to choose a partner more wisely in the future. Don't take this guy back. To do so basically demonstrates to him that you will tolerate his behavior, no matter how abominable it is. And leave the sorority girls alone...there are not all like the young woman you described. |
Okay,
First just let me say, that sorority girls aren't trashy sluts or any other other stereotype that Butterfly wishes to put on us. That particular who slept with your bf might not be your best friend. However, have you ever taken the time to consider that he might just be lying to you. I mean the guy slept with someone else without utilizing protection, so it's just a guess that he isn't a pillar of virtue and honesty. I feel bad for you butterfly. Perhaps if you were capable of seeing beyond your "love" then you would see that this girl is not the one who ruined your relationship. Your boy did. He was the one who had the committment, he was the one who slept with her, hence cheating on you. She didn't cheat on you. Perhaps you should refocus your anger, which by the way has voiced nothing but stupidity, towards him, and not her. My boyfriend of three years slept with a non-Greek girl. So, following your great intelligence I should hate all non-Greeks. Well, now, that makes so much sense. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif I however, left his sorry @ss, because I deserve better, because I have more respect for myself then to stay with a man who can't be faithful or honest. My advice Butterfly....grow the $uck up. [This message has been edited by Kymberleigh (edited August 04, 2000).] |
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Butterfly, you commented on the fact that your post is about HOW MANY sorority girls are having sex and drinking. Well if you look at society today their is a surprising amount of young ladies that chose to "ho" themselves, by choosing to sleep with a various amount of males. This "slutty" behavor goes beyond sororities and into the state of the world today. If more people cared enough to help uplift young ladies self-image as a whole then you wouldn't find so many "slutty" women in sororities, in colleges, in the world.
------------------ Reach for the Moon, because even if you miss, you will still be among the stars! -unknown |
You wrote: I was simply commenting on how many promiscuous girls are involved in sororities
The fact is that the number of sorority girls that you have come in contact with in your life time does not give you the right to make a comment like that. The large amount of girls you're talkint about is like .00000000000000001% of all Sisters. I could make a comment that maybe the school that you all are coming from or even the town breeds slutty trash. But that wouldn't be fair would it. Now come on. You posted something like you did on a GREEK website and you're suprised at the reactions you're getting? Please |
GLOs generally do not sit idly by while members destroy themselves. There are internal workings within each GLO that non-members will never and could never understand. If this woman were in my house, I can guarantee that she would not get away with her behavior-- some sort of disciplinary action would be taken, along with an attempt to find out why one of our members was behaving this way.
The reason she wouldn't get away with her behavior, butterfly, is exactly because of your posts: if one member of one GLO at one campus does something that someone (excuse the phrase) "on the outside" of Greek life does not like, it makes every single Greek organization look bad. I am very sorry that this happened, but I'm even more sorry that we have to sit here and defend our entire system because one member of one GLO somewhere in this country messed up. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif ------------------ Lizzie Theta Sigma Chapter Delta Delta Delta |
More power to you Lizzie!!!!!!
In my house, we go by the motto, "You might be the only TriDelta someone ever meets." I know in my house that if a sister acted in this way she would be brought to standards quicker then she could blink. Kim Delta Epsilon Delta Delta Delta |
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lizzie3d, you do not have to defend your entire system because one member of one GLO messed up. I do apologize if I came across that way in my messages. Again, I think there are alot of great aspects to Greek life....heck, I have several good friends who are Greek.
Anyway, that girl ended up getting kicked out of her sorority. Apparently, she had a lot of problems and got herself into a little too much trouble.I'm glad her sorority didn't tolerate her bad behavior. I would imagine that in a lot of ways, its a privledge to be involved in a sorority...its refreshing to know that a sorority doesn't allow such a privledge to be abused. Quote:
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