Deport the Illegals!!
 

I was just curious how GCers feel about deporting illegal aliens. Some say that there is a market here for illegal aliens that do the work Americans don't want to do i.e. fast food, janitorial, etc.. However, some feel that illegals are putting a drain on our educational system, hospitals, legal system etc.

Where do you stand??

Apologies if this has already been discussed. I did a search but did not find the thread.

I'm all for BIG changes to the immigration system. It needs to be easier for folks to come over here on work visas. If they made it easier, less folks would be coming over illegally.

Also, I'm all for any kind of obstruction that would make it more difficult for folks to sneak over here from our neighbor to the south. In this day and age, we really need to know who's coming into the US.

I totally disagree with the US putting aid stations and such out there to facilitate their illegal activities.

I am against:

Giving illegals driver licenses
Providing education to illegal aliens children - I know its not the children's faults...but we have enough issues dealing with our education system...we don't need to be dealing with people that dont even have a right to be here
Providing hospital care to illegal aliens
I believe we should militarize the borders..

IMO the only thing we need to be providing for them is a ticket back home. They make the individuals that do it the right way look bad.

YES!!!!!!! They need to be deported.........for reasons already stated in this thread.

It would take too long to really say where I stand on this. If they are illegal, they need to be deported.

Ya dont say...
 

I must say I'm surprised by the responses.... I just knew I'd get some bleeding liberals that would say we shoud provide these things for them

...interesting..:cool:

If they're illegal.. then deport them. They just make all the legal immigrants look bad.

(and yes, I'm one of those 'bleeding heart liberals' supposedly)

But... I don't know how the US immigration system works, but if it's true these people do the jobs we don't want to do - then we have to rethink the US immigration policy to allow non-skilled immigrants legal access to the country and these jobs.

(because someone has to drive the taxis)

there are legal ways to come here...but hopping the fence and making a run for the border...swimming...and packing 25 people in a trunk aren't one of them. I'm all for letting them work here...they just need to do it legally.

(would also be nice if they learned English before they got jobs)

I agree... my point was that often it is very difficult for unskilled labour to immigrate. Or at least it is in Canada.

As for English... I agree. Or at least they should be actively trying to learn English. It really angers me when people come here and think they don't need to learn the language. (oh... Grandmas/Granddads excluded - but they don't tend to work anyhow)

Deporting all the immigrants right now would devastate our economy, pure and simple. It's not possible, and all the conservative, big-business and corporate farm owners would be the first to fight you, tooth and nail Why? Because illegal immigrants are the ones that get the foods from the fields to the warehouses, all for a coupla bucks a day. Illegals are the predominant workforce in CA (in the fields, I mean), the biggest agricultural state in the union (some will be surprised to know). Deporting all immigrants would force corporate farms to hire legal residents/citizens, whom they would have to pay, oh I don't know, about 10x as much, at least minimum wage. So, if you're ready to pay $20 for a gallon of milk, by all means, champion the cause of deporting all illegals. Otheriwse, kappaloo is right, there would need to be some MAJOR changes to the US economy, before we are prepared to take on the burden of paying more for food-related labor. So, not even looking at them as human beings and whether or not they deserve medical attention if they get a limb cut off when using a dangerous piece of farm machinery, tell me: would you rather pay $20 for a gallon of milk, or absorb the costs they put on our system, which we currently pay out? That's just an honest-to-goodness cost/benefit assessment.

I personally am thankful I don't have to pay that much for groceries, because I couldn't afford it if so, so I am not prepared to say all illegal immigrants need to be deported right now. I just don't think it is in our best interests, as US Citizens, trying to make ends meet.

IOW, the US has a vested interest in making sure we have a nice steady supply of illegals to work for us, and people's hatred of illegals, and fear of terrorism will have to butt heads with corporate interests. Ultimately, you can guess who I think will win.

I don't care if immigrants come here illegally (meaning that they are entering the country without obtaining a Alien Registration Receipt Card first) because as someone stated earlier, they are taking jobs that otherwise would go unfilled (and we all know the big business runs this country).

What does bother me than upon coming here, they do not go through the process of obtaining citizenship, although I do not think we have a process in place for illegals who have been living and working in the US for umpteen years to apply for citizenship. Even if we blocked the borders today, there are probably thousands that have been here for years and years.

Maybe someone well versed in immigration laws can clear it up for me. I did a search on the 'net and can only find citizenship processes in place for those that enter legally.

How about we just buy food from outside the country and instead of 3 bucks for milk I get it for 1?

-Rudey

Well seeing as how I know a good number of illegals,I know what their deal is, and here's my take. I am totally for them being deported. GASP!!! I'll tell you why...
1) Illegal immigrants typically do not have long term plans to stay here. What would you do if you went somewhere where no one knew you and you knew you weren't coming back? Yeah...
2) They are a huge drain on our healthcare system, tax structure, educational system, etc. Indigenous hospitals must take anyone they receive for care, regardless of their ability to pay. Until we have a gov't funded healthcare system (when hell freezes) those with insurance are the ones who end up paying for them as well. Many illegals work and make large sums of money w/o paying taxes on it. There's no telling how many billions of dollars Uncle Sam loses each year. They're feeding off of a system without paying into it.
3) Illegal immigrants tend to have a higher crime rate than do immigrants who are here legally. So they're putting strain on our criminal justice system, and once again...not paying taxes to support it.
I am totally for legal immigration. I think it makes this country interesting. Our ancestors were immigrants once (unless you're 100% native american...). But I have no time or respect for those who can't make the effort to be here lawfully. Sure it's tough. Those INS/BCIS officers are no joke. But if you're going to Rome, do as the Romans do. Don't be a mooch.

Illegals should get shipped home. We have laws for a reason. Illegals should not get the same rights as a citizen.

Do you have any reference materials that I could check out to back up your claims? (i.e. healthcare stats, crime stats, etc.).

As someone who works in not for profit healthcare, my research doesn't back that up. Our system is strained due to other reasons, not because of an excessive amount of illegals going to hospitals. Interesting ............. :cool:

I'm all for it. If they can become legal citizens, then that's great. Otherwise, they have no business being here.

Oh, for starters, do a search of Cost - Illegal Immigrants and see what you come up with...I found an article about hospitals closing due to being unable to take on the burden of uninsured immigrants (http://www.usvisanews.com/memo886.html) and the cost of educating these people (http://sophorist.com/archives/000201.html). I'm sure there is more, and you can find both sides of the argument if you look hard enough. But the first five pages where pretty negative for the illegals... maybe someone else can find the pros and how illegals help reduce the costs.

I say send them home. I am currently interning at a middle school, and we have new illegal students arrive almost daily. We sign them in, assign dummy social security numbers, give them books etc. The school is overcrowded. So instead of having 20 students per class, a teacher has 30 - 35. The children whose parents are paying the taxes deserve to be there, and deserve the attention of the teacher. Unfortunately, the teacher is unable to give any extra attention or do anything beyond the norm because she has too many students in her classes.

My car insurance is high because lots of immigrants come from a country where there are no driving laws. So I pay the higher premiums for those people who don't follow our laws on the highways. Recently a child was killed when here when the driver of a car did not follow the laws and did not stop for a stopped school bus. Of course they had no license and no insurance.

Everyone complains because there are no jobs here and that we are sending everything overseas. There are jobs here, but Americans are too good for them. It makes me sick that people would rather get the handouts then get out there and work as a janitor or farm laborer. I'm with Rudey, let's build a dairy farm outside the US and send all these illegals to work there. We'll get our milk for less, and the illegals will be gone from the country. Instead of spending 7.4 billion a year on education for illegals, we can spend that money on our own kids and our own healthcare needs.

Thanks, but I am looking for something that isn't so "slanted" or based on personal opinions. The article about the immigrant in the accident is really no different that a US citizen who does not have health insurance. Speaking of personal experience, I can't began ti tell you how many cases come across my desk of US citizens involved in serious car accidents that have no health insurance.

I'm looking for something a little more netural. Maybe something from a federal (dept. of labor and stats) website. I'll keep searching though.....

ETA:

Ok, I found some research from the Bureau of Labor and Stats. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2003/04/art2full.pdf .

Here is what they found:

The 1989–99 analysis shows that the conventional wisdom regarding immigrants’ contribution to poverty has some merit in that the increased share of immigrants did place upward pressure on poverty rates. None of the preceding discussion should be taken to imply
that immigration plays no role in the economic trends of the
1990s, but, thus far, immigration’s role appears to have been
overstated at the expense of other, more fundamentally economic
factors. Both New York and California, for example, saw larger than average increases in inequality over the decade, and the
incomes of the wealthy pulled far ahead of those at the middle
and the bottom of the income scale.8 In many States, the increase in inequality meant that the growth that did occur went
disproportionately to those at the top of the income scale, leaving
those at the lower end more vulnerable to poverty, regardless of
their status as natives or immigrants.

So if there are no naturalization programs for those that are here illegally (meaning that would allow to become US citizens, pay taxes, etc.), maybe this is something that we should be considering.

Not only do they do the work that many of us won't do, but big business knows that its causes minimal impact to their bottom line (low wages, no health benefit cost, etc.). Emotions and stereotypes aside, US companies are not going to allow us to deport illegal immigrants. Sadly, moretimes than not, profit wins out over anything else. If it didn't, we wouldn't so many lobbyist running around Washington.:p

I agree the articles I posted might be slanted. However, even for the uninsured people who enter the hospitals, at least they are citizens of the US and are hopefully contributing taxes somewhere.
The article posted above appears to be reporting on immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Let's keep looking though, you've got my curiousity up! I think you are right about big business - these people are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Here's an interesting site that discusses both legal and illegal immigrants...
http://www.fairus.org/

Here's the trouble: Shipping them home would just mean that they'd be coming back accross the border.

Through what means could the US protect its borders? The only way I can even think of to even semi-secure that area would be to establish a perimeter and shoot to kill anyone that enters it. I don't think they'll do it. I wouldn't be in favor of it. But I can't think of any other way to get people to stop coming accross illegally.

I'm 100% for legal immigration. I'm even in favor of the sytsem giving benefits to legal immigrants. I just don't understand why we are giving any benefits to illegals.

It blows my mind that Mexicans are actually wanting to sue the US government for not making their illegal trip to the US safe by not putting water out, etc..

Thanks again. I'll peruse that website.

This issue is interesting to me as well. On the BLS's site, they even stated that it is hard to really come up with accurate figures because - well, their illegal, so how do you track them or the resources that their using (aside from tracking the children who are enrolled in school)? :confused:

A complex issue indeed!

If they're illegal, why should they received from a system they didn't contribute to in the first place? I agree with ktsnake, the current immigration policy is pretty much a mess and need reforms. But I also think that industry which hires illegals should be penalized, at the same time, give them temporary or season visas so they can be taxed contribute to the system that needs that much extra funding. And that is from a bleeding heart liberal.

I am a liberal but, on this issue, I think of myself as being a conservative. Send them home!

Yes, the work many of the jobs that many Americans would not do. But, they do not pay taxes all the while using our tax money at hospitals and other places.

Many do not feel the need to learn English. There's places in South Florida that you go to that have become a foreign country.

First-no links or studies to back this up, just MHO>

Jobs-If I were in need of money for my family, there are very few jobs I wouldn't take. To make a blanket statement that they fill jobs no one else will is simply hard to understand. MOST of us have had some really horrid jobs, but money is money. Take the number of teens who can't find work or adults who CAN work getting unemployment, I think we could find a way to benefit our own people/system if those jobs opened up.

IF we didn't have to give free lunches and breakfasts to illegals,
our schools might be able to upgrade. All over, there are schools literally falling apart-asbestos hanging from ceilings, lead in the pipes and on the playgrounds.

Charity hospitals-someone HAS to pay for the care. There have been news stories where people are dying or critically ill so they sneak in through friends and relatives because our quality of healthcare is superior. There was one report recently where the illegal's family sued the hospital!

Driving! :eek: :eek: :eek:

This business where the INS turns a deaf ear on cops who arrest illegals is SCREWED!

Do "they" think I believe illegals spend their money here??? Sure, some of it, but a LOT goes back home to their family.

NO politician wants to turn them away because the greatest % come from Mexico. Mexican Americans are a growing voting block and THAT'S why DEMOCRATS as well as REPUBLICANS refuse to let this become a party issue. (One reason I really like Arnold!)

I also blame NAFTA for some of this. You think we have an abundance of jobs here with opportunity and great pay? So many of our jobs are overseas. Eventually WE may be the people who need those "subhuman" jobs...they will all be filled.



OK- links!
http://www.cestim.org/14clandestino_usa.htm
Illegals make up close to 2% of the US population!!! The population was estimated to be growing by about 275,000 each year

http://are.berkeley.edu/APMP/pubs/i9...raids3900.html
Last fall, Unite negotiated contracts that recognized the illegal status of some workers, and shielded them. One clause requires an employer to bar an I.N.S. raid unless the agents have a search warrant. And a company must notify the union if it gets wind of a coming raid.

Here is the search link by GOOGLE where you can see the mountain of research/articles/opinions on this subject.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search

The amount of taxes not paid by illegals is DWARFED by the amount of taxes not paid by legals in the upper income brackets. If this is really an issue of taxes then solve that problem first.

-Rudey

Re: Deport the Illegals!!
 

My thoughts on it all are a little different.


I think we should deport all the people from places like Columbia, Venzuela, and most Latin American countries....as well as the Hatians, Jamaicans, Cubans and people from most carribean islands. We should keep the Mexicans, Canadians and actually try to make NAFTA work.

To expound on the job issue:

So two years ago, it was ok for us (Americans) to turn our nose up at jobs that illegals typically take (i.e. construction, field workers, seamtress, etc.) because we thought we were better than that.

Now that some of us are financially hurting, unemployment running out, etc., these same jobs that we once thought of as "degrading" now belong to us? :confused:

Humbling, to say the least!


What do you guys think will happen once the economy turns around? Do you seriously think that we (American) will keep the job as a field worker once Target or Boeing (for the corporate folks) start hiring again?

Seriously why don't we go after rich people who evade taxes if that's the issue?

-Rudey

I agree with Rudey. In fact, I just happened to be reading Fast Food Nation last night and got to some important facts about that. ConAgra, one of the biggest food suppliers in the country, basically blackmailed the state of Nebraska into giving them huge tax breaks. The state finally gave in, because they didn't want ConAgra to leave the state. One deal was that the executives would only have to pay income tax on their first $7,000 income each year! It was also to the point where for each job that ConAgra created, the taxpayers in NE were subsidizing that position from $18,000 to $23,000 per year. Another large food provider, IBP also benefitted from this, but in the end, even that kind of tax breaks wasn't enough for them. They moved their HQ to SD, where there is no corporate income tax.

What does this have to do with this thread? Well, I personally feel that the posters on this thread have some underlying hatred for the illegals being here and, possibly, for them doing jobs that legal residents and citizens could/would do. Maybe, maybe not. But what you need to know is that they come here because the corporations want to hire them and the corporations do not want to hire the average American for this position. Quite the opposite of what another poster said, it's not as if jobs would "open up" if illegals were deported. In fact, these powerful corporations would never allow that to happen. They do not WANT to hire the average joe, and if there is anyone to be angry about for the presence of illegals, it’s these corporations. To bring illegals here, corporations put Spanish language ads on radio stations in Mexico about job openings, and even go down to border towns to tempt illegals across promising them food, decent living conditions and work. One company took illegals up to Minnesota and dropped them off at a homeless shelter. Not only did the tax payers end up paying for these people (for the short time they were there) but the illegals were even pissed, because they were promised apartments by the corporation.

A lot of the things we perceive as problems with illegals are actually things these corporations perceive as benefits. High turnover? Good, because they don’t have to give them benefits or vacation time unless they stay for a year, so they actually encourage turnover. Poor working conditions that cause injuries save time and money for the corporation. No health insurance. More savings. So, if you are really against illegals being here, I suggest you work against the corporations that provide incentive and means for the illegals to come here. Without these corporations providing these incentives, many would not come as illegals.

And who are these corporations? You say you’ve never heard of ConAgra? Yes, you have. They own the following brands: Hunt’s, Armour, La Choy, Country Pride, Swiss Miss, Orville Redenbacher, Knott’s Berry Farm, Hebrew National, Healthy Choice, Reddi-Wip and Tase o’ Sea to name a few. So, if you are really serious about getting illegals out of “our” jobs and out of America, boycott these brands.

I just think it’s unfair to blame illegals for coming when mega-corporations in our own country are trying to get them here. When we are internally at odds, it’s hard to present a united front against illegal immigrants. I’m sure the corporations are happy that people like the posters here blame the illegals and not them, and don’t know the real story behind their coming.

interesting perspective godfrey...

Godfrey, I read that book as well. I actually cried during some of it. So sad. It's scary how much goes on that we don't know about. I'll tell you this much : I don't eat fast food any longer. I"m sure you don't either, now :)
I also agree with Rudey...if we're going to after the due taxes of illegals we also need to nab the other folks cheating our government of tax money. Especially since these folks are citizens and enjoy even more priveleges than any illegal could (i.e. protection from the U.S. embassies around the world while travelling, social security, etc).
I have the solution for illegal immigration...put Blockbuster in charge of immigration law enforcement. Those bastards are all over you if your movie is even one day late...think what that could do for people who have overstayed their visas. :D

Not.
I am very pro-immigration, as long it is done through proper chanels.
Illegal is illegal. Without the rule of law, society would disintegrate. Citing other injustices is irrelevant, as two wrongs simply don't make a right.

*LOL* You ain't lying on that! Shoot Blockbuster could handle a lot of our nation's problems :D (find Bin Laden, tax evaders, etc.).

Exactly. The wrong of these corporations purposely bringing illegal immigrants into this country does not make a right. I also am disgusted with these corporations that purposely circumvent our USNS regulations in order to get cheaper labor. It contributes to the decline of our neighborhoods and degrades our immigration policies and procedures. These corporations should be held responsible for this widespread behavior

I have no problem with holding corporate executives responsible for criminal behavior. Lock 'em up, and send 'em to a "Federal Pound Me In The Ass Prison." And send the illegals back to wherever they came from. The law is the law. If you don't like the law, lobby to change it, or better yet, run for Congress.

Well, then, we agree!

GRRRRRRRRRR
 

Damn you Godfrey!
Damn you for agreeing with me!
Damn you straight to hell!!!
Do you hear me, straight to hell!!!