"Hazing" Incidnet
 

A little background information: the University of Toldeo has a small close knit greek community. The greek village houses seven sororities and seven fraternities.

On Sunday November 16, 2003 the university police were called to the greek village on an alleged hazing incident. The incident occured after a member of one fraternity have lavileared or given his letters to his girlfriend. After meeting on Sunday he was captured by his brothers and saran wrapped to a tree while they threw various food items at him. Members from an opposing fraternity saw the incident occured and notifed the police calling the event "hazing."

This is not an uncommon occurance within our greek system it is a tradtion. All fraternities except the reporting one participate in this ritual. Usually village residents come out and watch. The complete tradition includes capturing of the brother, having him change into gym shorts and providing him with goggles before the saran wrapping occurs. The girlfriend is also present during the event and according to tradition she must kiss him before she can cut him away from the tree. These little ceremonies never last more than a half hour and only occur during warm weather.

The university judicial officer ruled the incident to not be hazing because the brother was an active memeber for his fraternity and voluntarily particiapted. A secondary factor included was the fraternity reporting the incident had lost a hotly contested intermural sports event earlier in the day to the fraternity the called the police on.

My question is if similar rituals occur at other schools?? Do you belive this to be hazing? Why or why not?

Just looking for a little prespective, thanks in adavnce for anyones input!

Hazing? Not technically , I guess.

Immature/asking for trouble? YES.

We never had such a thing, but it seems all in good fun. I would definitely consider the source...if this is so common, why didn't the reporting fraternity ever speak up before?

Not sure why the reporting fraternity has never spoken up before. And it has happened many times so there have been oppertunities... And by reporting this that fraternity has become even more disliked by the greek community than they already were. Most other greeks feel like the reporting group crossed a line and is intentionally trying start something between themselves and the other fraternity. The imaginary battle lines have been drawn and beyond a few loyal supporters to the reporting group everyone else is on the other side.

Re: "Hazing" Incidnet
 

Let me get this straight. So someone willingly gets tied to a tree and you throw food at him. Like apples?

-Rudey

This happens in a lot of chapters in many schools.

On the face of it, it would appear to be hazing, although I think many schools overlook it due to voluntary participation.

Rudey's right, apples could hurt, but I suspect they throw soft stuff like buns or whatever.

What is the point of this tradition?

If it's not hazing, then I want to know what the point of this is.

Is it fun and humorous? How is that a tradition? Why not go watch a movie that's fun and humorous?

-Rudey
--And I doubt it's just buns.

We have a similar tradition at my school. A friend's school throws the guy into the fountain in front of the library. The point is just to rag on your brother for putting his girlfriend before his fraternity, which is my understanding of the point of lavaliering. Maybe not before, but on the same level. Either way...

ETA: At my school it's usually liquid foods, like ketchup, honey, syrup, etc. I don't think I've ever seen solids thrown at anyone.

yeah, it's seen as not putting the fraternity first by giving your letters to her, which she didn't earn. It goes with the old saying "Bros before hoes".
If that becomes hazing then certain people need to start finding out where their balls went. It's not done with malicious intent or to even teach a lesson, it's actually seen by most who have gone through it as a rite of passage.

It's done at lots of schools in different variations. The fraternity that called the police is just trying to start trouble because they lost that intermural event.
I know this because it happened to my fraternity several times in school. (False charges being brought up against us to the greek advisor, who knew better, after we had beat that fraternity in a certain event.)

This is what I see when I read that:

-The fraternity allows the brother to put his girlfriend before them in the form of a tradition.

-The fraternity once it allows for this tradition feels it needs another tradition to punish the brother for following the first tradition.

-Rudey

Letters you "earn".

"Rite of Passage" not "hazing"

"don't at lots of schools"

All red flags but I'm not judging.

I think maybe you should reconsider giving your brother the option to put "hoes before bros" because who's there to throw food at y'all for allowing your letters to be given to others?

-Rudey

It's not hazing. You don't have to lavalier your girlfriend to become a member of the fraternity. If you know the "traditional" consequences of doing such, then don't drop your letters on her.

It sounds like this guy knew what would happen and he accepted it.

Now, this MIGHT be a good time to codify the tradition and standardize what may and may not be thrown at the participating Brother. It seems like reasonable management of the risks....goggles and saran wrap. It COULD get out of control in the future and someone COULD get hurt, but not if they proactively manage the event for the future.

Sounds like "Double Dare" to me. That wasn't hazing.

Rudey, I'm really agreeing with you on this. I think the fountain tradition is kind of cute (sort of like dumping Gatorade on a coach after winning a big game) but throwing food and Saran Wrapping? That's just tacky.

Eh, simply put you are correct. But lavaliering and pinning have been going on for years and years and years all across the country. Now the "tradition" that follows, not necessarily. But I don't think these are rare fraternities that are "allowing the brother to put his girlfriend before them..."

But maybe lavaliering and pinning have different meanings as far as degrees of seriousness across different campuses, and on mine it was toward the serious end of spectrum.

If the consequence of telling everyone fraternity secrets meant getting attacked and beaten and you did this knowing the consequence, what would that mean? I mean you COULD really get hurt.

-Rudey

Lots of things have been going on for years and years. It doesn't make it acceptable no matter how long it's done. I'm not saying this is or isn't acceptable. I don't care really too much about it. But if you are doing something that can be interpreted as hazing unless you come out to explain why it's not hazing, then you are increasing the risk you bring into your chapter. And then doing this in public, increases the risk further. The funny thing is after accepting this risk, someone acts like they're shocked that they get accused of hazing - I accept the fact that if I play blackjack and don't count my cards and keep track of probabilities in my head properly I can lose it all.

But it seems to me like the fraternity is creating a situation whereby lavaliering becomes "hos before bros" as someone so elegantly put it. There is nothing positive about hurting your chapter so I don't understand why that option is even there. Why not give her a charm or whatever and it would be just as serious if you wanted to interpret it like that.

On top of that, no matter how "serious" it is, the message I get is that it's cool to put "hos before bros" because there's a big celebration (after getting flogged with food) and all these people are happy for you.

-Rudey

I think the tradition is stupid and people shouldn't do it.

But the bigger crime in my mind is the jagoffs who saw it happen over and over and were fine with it until they realized they could get a fraternity who they happened to have a beef with in trouble. That's so bogus I can't even begin to discuss it.

I know.

-Rudey
--What would Nietzsche say?

Definition of Hazing by "expert" Hank Nuwer:

committing acts against an individual or forcing an individual into committing an act that
creates a risk of harm in order for the individual to be initiated into or affiliated with an organization. (my own emphasis)

Technically, not hazing. Traditions are important to groups, no matter how asinie or rediculous they may seem to outsiders. Since none of us are members of that fraternity, were not there at the time of the incident and have only second-hand knowledge of the incident, we cannot for sure say exactly what happened or what the member's feelings were about the incident. Maybe the brothers told the guy what time he was going to be wrapped, maybe the guy got to pick out what was being tossed on him, we don't know. Have there ever been any other reports of injury from similar incidents?

The very act of lavaliering a lady is in itself a rite of passage, why shouldn't the man giving the lavalier have one of his own? Who said it was a punishment? Why must it be construed as one? Are we really in an age of "enlightenment"? Nothing is innocent fun or sacred anymore, which is a shame. Cynicism reigns supreme.

At convention earlier this year, one workshop included information on "hazing after initation." Regardless of the participants willingness, certain actions can still be considered hazing. So... i guess technically incidents like these could be considered hazing, even if the activity is between initiated Brothers (not member to pledge / membership candidate - whatever your org. calls it).

BluTang,

Is it the action itself that is considered hazing, or the cirumstances, too?

I know that in NPHC organizations (and by extension, any GLO on an HBCU campus) that post-pledging is considered hazing. That is to say, a new member class has been initiated, but the old members make the new members feel that they have to submit to hazing in order to be considered "real" members. Technically, they are members, so they can do what they choose, but through the power of coercion, persuasion, or threat of ostracization....I would consider it hazing.

Rudey, A++++++'s to your posting on this situation!:)

Is not Lav. or Pining a Lady a time of Celebration for the Brohter?

Hell to throw Crap at him is ridiculous. Maybe it is not hazing, but in legal circles, that is Assault!:mad: If found guilty, that could mean Jail Time!:(
If it is reported by an other party, it is hearsay by the police who will investigate it. But if it is seen by an officer, dead bang, go to Jail!
It is not funny then, period.

If a Brother places His Badge on someone, that is serious Stuff. I would never give my Badge up. No matter what!

What kind of respect would I have for Brothers who threw stuff at me, tied to a tree.

Boy are We having Fun Now!:eek:

I agree, this incident is unacceptable. I consider it to be hazing, but what ever the word is used to describe this behavior, it should never be tolerated.

With regard to pinning with a badge, Phi Kappa Psi prohibits that, but we do have a "Sweetheart Pin" that may be purchased and used for pinning.

Around our campus Lavilering is symbolic of a serious realtionship and pinning is pre-engagement.

Not quite sure that I understand how the bros before hoes fits into thie entire senerio.

Yes they only throw food that is soft or liquid ie: syrup and flour.

And in most of the chapters here the brothers take a vote before a girl can be lavilered or pinned to their chapter. Then they go sing and present her with the respective token.

This is all done in good fun. And FYI around here you don't want to go swimming... the river that runs through campus has signs posted everywhere saying its contaminated and entering the water, drinking the water or eating fish out of it is hazordous to your health.

Pinning Thread
 

Since the subject of pinning traditions came up, there is a thread here.

The message from the workshop was that actions (not circumstances) constitute hazing.

i agree with everything rudey has said. well said. :)

although i dont think it would be considered hazing, beacuse it is my understanding that many orgs hjazing policy is only towards pledges (correct me if i am wrong, please, seeing as i am making such a sweeping statement), it does seem a bit sketchy and i could see how it could be twisted to be considered hazing by some greek life offices.

Alpha Xi Delta, Phi Kappa Psi, and other respected GLOs belong to the FIPG. Their manual can be downloaded here: http://www.fipg.org/media/FIPGMAN2001.pdf

The FIPG's section on hazing begins on page 41 of that manual.

No where is hazing defined as an activity that is exclusively targeted at pledges.

On page 44, there is an apendix that enumerates many, but not all hazing activities. The phrase "pledged or initiated members" is repeatedly used to explicitly demonstrate that initiated members may be subjected to hazing as well.