Stupid Ebay Auctions
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=11145

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=11145

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=11145

All three are our badges. How is that okay? THat really bothers me that they weren't buried or sent back to nationals. I don't understand the blatant disrespect these vendors must have for us.

I'm sorry this thought has gotten me really really riled. When I'm rich I am going to buy all the badges and send them back to Nationals :-)

I emailed every vendor. Any other ideas on how to stop this? I know every greek group must deal with this!

There have been a few posts about this, but let me try to explain it again. The vendors aren't necessarily the "bad guys". Sure, they are selling our badges that are a part of our ritual and they are trying to make money off of us. However, the real problem comes from the members themselves who don't properly take care of their pins, or who sell them when they disaffiliate or are expelled or leave or whatever. The pins also come from members who have passed away and do not specify in their wills or tell family members (if they have either) what is to be done with their pin when they die. If there is no will, an estate sale is planned for the person's possessions to be sold off to satisfy their estate. Pins are bought by random people and collectors and some of them end up on Ebay. It's not okay for our badges to end up on Ebay, and even though National Council has told all of us not to bid on the badges to further encourage the sellers, it is kind of hard to see a badge on there and not want to rescue it! ;)

Emailing the vendors may not be the best approach, as there is a lawyer on retainer at HQ (I believe) who takes care of that. The badges are considered stolen property if they are in the hands of anyone else other than a sister or HQ, but the vendors either don't get it or don't care. I'm siding with the latter. But the vendors get very pissy when people email them (depending on what is said in the email) because then they start saying that they're just trying to make a buck and it's not their fault that the member gave their badge up in the first place, etc.

Some greek groups do deal with it. I know KKG has an organization called Keepers of the Key and they handle badges that end up on Ebay and other sites like that. Some GLO's will refund the purchase price of a badge that a member "rescues" off of Ebay or a similar site. As far as I know, Sigma Kappa does not have a policy like that in place.

The only way to really stop the sale of our badges, or any other organization's badges, is to get it through to the members that there are proper ways to handle your badge after you're done with it. Whether the member is still living or has passed away, their badge shouldn't be floating around where random people can get a hold of it. That is what will really stop all of this. Until that happens, badges will still be seen on Ebay and members will still be mad about it. It's a bad situation but there's no easy solution, unfortunately.:(

Thank you for your response. I understand that it is members faults, if they truly mean that much to the member then the badge should be better taken care of. But I get really upset when I see something so important to me that I hold in such high esteem floating around ebay to be scooped up by anyone.

I appreciate your ideas and explanations-- they really helped me alot.

I guess I just don't understand the ignorance of selling something that hurts so many sisters-- and all it does is make a few quick bucks.

Thanks again.

In Sigma,

Well before I got your response, I had emailed one of the vendors selling the pin. This is the response I got (omitting the email adress)

Hi,
In some ways I agree with you. However, I was laid off a month ago. Decent jobs aren't everywhere. I can't just go work for McD's or something like that. I need to spend my time making good money. I have a beautiful wife and two sweet children to support. That is why I am doing Ebay, to help support everyone. So, if cleaning out peoples houses is what I need to do, then that is what I will do. If you would like, please bid on the item and you can send it back to where it rightfully belongs. Please don't take me the wrong way, I understand your feelings. In this case, however, as immoral as it may be, it is not illegal and my family comes first. Next time, please don't put someone down unless you know somebodys full story.

Thanks,
Eric

Argh

It saddens me that this man can give this excuse & expect it to be okay. It isn't SK's fault that he isn't spending his time finding a well paying job.

Ouch. That was harsh.

It isn't harsh. Its true. He says he has a family to support so he can't work @ McDonald's. Fine, go work @ Wal-Mart. Plenty of people support a family working @ their local Wal-Mart's. Or Meijer's. These places that stay open 24 hours a day pay well & have plenty of scheduling time all the time. There is no excuse.

Right, I just don't understand why it's not plausible to work at a place like McDonald's or WalMart or a restraunt or something in the time being.

It's ignorant people that make me angry.

You don't understand why it's not plausible for this guy to go work at WalMart? Are you kidding? If I've got a family to support and I'm making $150k a year as a senior level manager when I lose my job, you think I can go work for $8 an hour at Walmart (that's about $17k a year) and everything will be fine? Seriously? Wow, if ignorant people make you angry, then take a good look in that shiny thing hanging over your bathroom sink and see what happens.

Anyway, it's not like the guy started selling crack to middle schoolers. He took a legitimate job as an estate liquidator. Look in your yellow pages - these companies exist everywhere. It's no different than any other job. And if he can get that kind of job making good money so he can keep a roof over his wife and kids, why on earth would he choose to go make minimum wage somewhere else?

How about some sympathy here? This guy could lose his house and his kids' college funds, and you're going to condemn him for selling a pin on ebay that he acquired 100% legally?

Wow! I can see getting upset about the badge on ebay, but I am really dumbstruck by what's being said here. I have known some fine Sigma Kappa ladies, and I sincerely hope there are still a few hanging around this forum who can remind you two about philanthropy and compassion.

wptw

Beautifully said wptw.

Alright now you all are just being dumb. I dont care what his job is, and its fine that he got the pin legally and is selling it, whatever. But hes respone to my sister was rude. It did NOT make me feel any compassion towards him and frankly it sounded like he was looking for sympathy. Im not going to say its ok to sell my sister badge. Im sorry about the state he is in and I understand that he recieved the badge legally and he has a right to see it, but just because he has a family to support doesnt mean I should be OK with him selling my sister badge.
<3

What's interesting, Aquastar, is that we only get to see his response and not the original [unedited] message he received from her.

I thought his response was very thoughtful compared to the way most sellers react when harassed. Most would either ignore the message or respond with something equally rude, but he took the time to explain himself and show a little empathy with her feelings.

She had no business writing to him in the first place. It's a violation of ebay's TOS and it seems to be against the advice that most national HQs are giving these days.

No one is asking you to be OK with his selling the badge. But can you really say you're proud of what your sisters have said here? Is this what you want prospective members on this board to see? Do you think your philanthropy in Maine would agree with those comments and start telling the impoverished people it serves to just get a job at Walmart?

wptw

WPTW,
Im not telling anyone to get jobs at walmart. I am saying that I am upset with the fact that my sister pin is on E-Bay. I never once blamed him for it, the only comment I made about him was that I thought the message was rude. Other people may not have, and my sisters letter to him (though I think it was posted earlier but i could be wrong) could have been rude, I dont know nor am I saying it couldnt have been. As for the rules of E-Bay, im not going to go researching them to tell my sister what she did was right or wrong, if the person she emailed was so conserned he can do it and if she reads this and thinks she may have done something wrong, she can go check. My ONLY points were that I was upset that a badge was on E-Bay, and I PERSONALLY thought his email was rude.
<3


In support of my sister, I dont think she understood the details of his "job". I believe she took it as selling random stuff on ebay is how he is making his money, insted of having a job (which is how he aquires this "stuff"). I believe it was more of not understand than of being blissfully ignorant. But if you really want to know, why not ask her?

Look I sent him an email saying that:

Fellow Ebay Vendor:

I understand that he might not know the significance of our badge but that we wear that pin with more pride and love then you could imagine. I understand selling things on ebay is important to you, but please don't sell any sorority or fraternity badge. If you get the opportunity to ship it back to Sigma Kappa headquarters, I will give you the information. It just really disheartens me to see something that is my world on sale for a few measly dollars. You can not guarantee that it will go to a sister, and just anyone can wind up with a symbol that rightfully only belongs to an active sigma kappa or alum.

Caitlin

And, I'm sure you think it's okay to walk onto our forum, call me ignorant and insult me when all I did was express distress at seeing a badge that means the world to me n sale for just a few dollars. Because, I'm sorry-- but I don't think that is okay.

And did this man say that he needs the money from this badge which will collect $15? I asked him to refrian from selling this one and others in the future. Just because he clears out estates, doesn't mean that he is in fact required to do this.

I appreciate your opinion, and I don't want to get in an argument. All I know is that I really get upset about any badge on Ebay-- and I don't think it's right o repeatedly insult me because I feel that way. I think my opinoin is valid and should not be shattered like that.

Oh yeah and Happy Thanksgiving .

I appreciate your sentiments, really I do. Let me remind you though, he could be lying. He could have a job, no family & drive a Mercedes. I don't care what the reason is, it is disrespect in the highest form.

Y'all, he's doing his job. Like wptw said, estate liquidating is a real career. Right now there are Sigma Kappa badges all over the world belonging to women who (gasp) aren't Sigma Kappas. Want to do something about it? Many organizations, mine included, have an organization of sisters dedicated to rescuing badges. To do this, you'll have to work with your Headquarters, and you'll have to be NICE to collectors. We've been nice to some and it's paid off big-time - now they'll only sell to us. He acquired the badge legally and he has every right to sell it, wear it, melt it down, whatever he wants. The problem lies with your sister who didn't tell her family what to do with the badge when she died, who didn't report it stolen when it got taken from her house, who sold it at the pawn shop for some money, etc...

No need to be sarcastic.

I understand that and I wasn't MEAN to the vender. I just got upset to see that my badge was on Ebay, that's all.

I don't understand why I'm getting disrespect. I am not being cruel to anyone, including that man, I merely told him that as a buyer, it upset me. I mean I was on their looking for Sigma Kappa flip flops, and it was entirely on accident that I saw these.

Please don't be rude or sarcastic to me about it. If I upset anyone, I'm sorry. If I am ignorant to real estate liquidation, then I'm sorry too. But please don't insult me because there really is no need for that.

Everything that GeekyPenguin and wptw have said is true. On top of that, having a badge in your possession doesn't make the sister. It doesn't magically transfer membership of an organization unto the person who holds it. It doesn't invoke any official rights or privileges. Wearing it doesn't suddenly infuse the knowledge of rituals or the meaning behind the symbols and letters. When push comes to shove, it's a piece of metal. Sometimes the metal has jewels on it. Sometimes even dangles.

Sure, I get upset when I see our badges on Ebay. It annoys me. It's a part of my sorority and is something cherished by all our sisters. But I know that if someone who is not a sister chooses to buy and even wear one of our badges, they're not anything special. I haven't heard very many stories of monster pin collectors who put on sorority badges and then go out and create havoc on the town, thus disrespecting the group.... It sucks when non-members have badges, but it's not the end of the world. To a non-member, it's just a pretty piece of jewelry.

I don't mean to come off rudely, if I do. I just have been following this thread for a little while and I wanted to include my $.02....

It seems to me this is an issue that has come up time and time again. Although a lot of us who have been around longer are aware that there are many badges for sale on Ebay, not just ours (something to remember), some of the newest member to our board are not aware of this, and it still comes as quite a shock to them. Although our national office has tried to be informative about what to do with our badges (send them back to NHQ or be buried with them) it seems like there are still plenty out there. This is no fault of their own; I know there are plenty of elderly members that might not have taken their badges into account when it came to their estates, and some members who just might not have cared, as hard as it is to hear. Most of the new members I have met have an ultimate respect for our badges, and hopefully this will lead to better caretaking.

I know that there are also a lot of sisters out there who will email a seller about a badge, unaware that we have someone at NHQ who has the job of being on the lookout for badges on ebay. Yes, we have the choice to form groups like Keepers of the Key (KKG) and bid on our badges that way. I personally think that it may serve to drive the prices up, but other times, a good rapport with a vendor might get you just what you need later, as pointed out by wptw.

Maybe there is a way for the moderator of the forum to post an info piece on badges, what to do and what is being done. I know that a lot of well meaning women might be too worked up to do a search about it before taking action, and it might help to calm tempers.

In the end, you have to remember: Our badge is just a symbol. Yes, it's hard to see them being sold, and we all wish it didn't happen, but what really matters is the Sigma Kappa you keep in your heart. That's something that can't be sold.

SigKapKatzue,

As far as I’m aware, posting to (and even arguing in) the Sigma Kappa board is perfectly OK as long as GC rules continue to be followed. However, if it makes you uncomfortable I’ll gladly repost in Greek Life.

No one blames you for being upset that your badge is being sold. That is perfectly OK. You’ll notice I never criticized your feelings about the pin being on ebay. I criticized your reaction to this seller’s email.

“…all I did was express distress at seeing a badge that means the world to me on sale for just a few dollars.” Well fine, but that’s NOT all you did. In your second post here you called the seller “ignorant”, with no basis whatsoever for that characterization. And I went on to point out the ignorance in your own posts. And now you’re “shattered” because I said you were ignorant. Hmm. From this I infer that it’s OK to call someone ignorant, but only if they’re not a member of Greekchat and unable to defend themselves. Cheap potshots against offboarders are apparently still OK.

You keep talking about how rude this guy’s response was, but I thought what he wrote was cordial and even thoughtful. So aside from his unwillingness to stop the auction and give you the pin, how exactly was his response rude? Which line? The only thing he wrote that’s even mildly adversarial is his last line: “Next time, please don't put someone down unless you know somebodys full story” …which I assume is in direct response to something you wrote (and perhaps edited out of the paraphrased version you later posted here).

You do a lot of complaining about various people disrespecting you and your organization, and I have to say that’s pretty ballsy considering the things you’ve said about this seller. Anyway, I never have understood the argument that ebay sellers are somehow disrespecting GLO members. As if it were a spite thing or something. “Disrespect in the highest form”, crzychx called it. I buy an estate and I’m supposed to pick through to find all the items that might potentially piss people off if I resold them, and I’m supposed to somehow already know exactly which items will piss those people off, and then I’m supposed to take all those items and simply donate them back to the pissed off people, and if I politely decline to do so, I’m disrespecting them. And I’m ignorant. And rude. And I’m making excuses. And my job is immoral. That doesn’t sound ridiculous to you?

Granted, he may very well be lying about the whole thing. Personally I don’t see why he would, since he obviously knows there’s nothing you can do to stop the auction anyway.

I’m not trying to insult you. I just thought you were being harsh, and that your anger toward this guy was entirely misplaced.

wptw

I'm not angry at the Ebay vender, per se. I'm angry that he's selling my badge. I am angry at the idea behind it. I'm sorry that I've spoken of his ignorance--it is ignorance in the importance of these badges that perpetuates Ebay sales.

Ig"no*rance, n. [F., fr. L. ignorantia.] state of being uneducated or uninformed.

He IS uninformed and uneducated when it comes to greek badges, and he was extremely cordial about my "harassment" as you call it. I don't think he's an evil man, and he is merely working as you call it-- but I still don't feel it's okay. I'm sorry that I disagree with selling them.

However, I completely agree with what other GC'ers have said about the importance being in Sigma Kappa, not with the badge-- and that anyone COULD wear it, but not bear the pride and love and boast what the sorority is truly about.

I am not "shattered" but I am offended. I just really felt that I could post my distress on a greek chat message board and apologize to those that found me to be cruel or ignorant, I certainly didn't want to be any of those things-- I only wanted to see what could be done about the badges.

If you would like to direct any more posts to me, feel free to do so via private message.

I don't mean that I am personally shattered, I feel that my opinion and post were rudely shot down and blown apart.

I do appreciate arguments and different opinions, I just feel that it was not done well. I know I'm feeling personally attacked, and I don't know why.

I'm sorry if I am being sensitive about this topic.

I understand what you’re saying. Don’t take it as a personal attack. I was just pointing out that this guy might have felt attacked himself.

But if ignorance is simply the fairly innocent state of being uninformed, why would ignorant people make you angry?

In any case, we can’t blame it on ignorance because many sellers know very well what the significance of these badges is. Many dealers have really worked hard to educate themselves so they can find the rare and desirable badges, which obviously sell for more money on ebay. And of course the collectors who also sell on ebay are very well educated in this area. I sell badges on ebay and I know more about them than just about anyone else on Greekchat. I’m not ignorant, or disrespectful or spiteful or whatever. I simply have a different opinion about it.

wptw

>But if ignorance is simply the fairly innocent state of being uninformed, why would ignorant people make you angry?

Because they may not know better, or they may know better, either way I'm angry that my sister badge could be worn by anyone, but I am coming to accept it. So thank you.

>I simply have a different opinion about it.
And I respect that.

He should have simply said "I purchased this badge at an estate auction, if you would like to buy it do so" rather than going for the poor me, I have to support my family angle. People who beg for sympathy usually deserve very little of it. If this is what he's doing, fine whatever, but don't justify it by trying to make someone feel sorry for you.

Agreed, 33girl. But in my experience, there's really no response he could give that would avoid the "tongue-lashing". As a seller, I've alternately ignored, snapped back rudely, responded matter-of-factly, empathized and outright lied. No matter what I say or how I say it, the response is always the same. Fact is, unless you're willing to stop the auction and return the pin, you're going to be labeled as a mean, spiteful, disrespectful a-hole.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

wptw