whatever happened to "no matter the letter, we're ALL Greek together"?
 

So I was talking to this girl the other day and she saw my SAI letters and asked me what they were. I told her, "oh it's a music fraternity for women that I am a member of." And she said, "oh, I thought it was one of the real sororities but that you had just transferred from somewhere else [because she didn't recognize the letters]".

:(

So the impression I get sometimes from people is that unless you're in a GLO that belongs to NPC/IFC/NPHC, you're not really Greek, or that your GLO isn't as good as one of them.

However, if you look around, man, there are just as many GLOs in different categories--professional, service, non-collegiate, etc--that have just as many chapters/members as the social Greeks do. So why do some people think that we aren't an important part of Greek life? We are just as important as a social GLO. Just because our focus is a little different doesn't make us less of a sorority!

And then I get the stereotypes about me being in SAI because I wasn't good enough for the NPC sororities. Well, I wouldn't know, I never went through Recruitment; I just found the aims of Sigma Alpha Iota to be something closer that I strive for in my life, and also a lot cheaper, so I chose their sisterhood instead.

I've also heard people say that locals aren't "real sororities". :rolleyes: the same with multicultural, Latin, etc GLOs. :O

Why must some people think this way???

Thoughts, anyone?

SAI and probably Phi Mu Alpha are in a seperate class that many "traditional" greeks don't know about. Their members are music people and are recruited differently. I think it's fair to say they're not the same as IFC/NPC/NPHC type organizations.

Many folks don't really know what SAI and organizations like it are so they probably consider them to be similar to an honorary or professional GLO that meets once a month and does a service project. In my experience, SAI operates very differently from chapter to chapter. Most don't have houses but the bond is not weaker by any sense of the word.

Are they the same as "traditional" GLO's? Nope. So when this person said you weren't a "real" GLO, that was her socially retarded way of saying you weren't in a traditional (NPC/NPHC) sorority.

When you get down to it, the solution to the problem is all in your hands. Ya'll are apparently not as visible to the campus as your traditional GLO's are. If this is a serious issue for you, perhaps mount a PR campaign? It could yield dividends when it comes to recruitment and help to combat the myth that you're not "real" or as good.

I'm going to sound like a big dork here, but I *love* meeting other Greeks, no matter what there chapter is. I guess when I was a new member, I wasn't really like that, but now I am. For instance, when I find out my co-workers are Greek, I get really excited, even when they are from other chapters. I guess I just feel like I can relate to those who have had a Greek experience.

I know what you mean! It happens with locals too - when I joined my local, I got a few snide remarks about how my sorority was for women who couldn't get into the "real" sororities. :mad: Never mind that I was the only woman in my pledge class who had even gone through FR. (I dropped out.)

Even our Director of Greek Life bashed us! He was giving a presentation and said "There are four sororities at this school." The then-president of my sorority was there in the front row, and she cleared her throat loudly. He looked at her and said, "...oh, and you guys" and then went right on talking without correcting his previous statement! He was doubly wrong, because he didn't count Alpha Kappa Alpha either. :rolleyes:

I know the feeling...
 

We get the exact same treatment at our school. We're the sorority that (supposively) everyone goes to if they don't get a bid (even though this has never happened!), or we're the "fake" sorority. Most of the girls who join us are not looking to be in a sorority, or just don't like the idea of formal recuitment... they want to be involved in a service organization. The Greek Life cordinator wants us to be involved in Greek Week this year, but some of the sororities have already said that they will refuse to participate if we're in it. Our rules and activities are exactly the same as the NPC groups on campus... the only difference is service is the main focus. Now is that so wrong? :(

Music sororities/fraternities
 

Tau Beta Sigma and Kappa Kappa Psi Are also music sororities/fraternities.
:)
Silver

Basically, Yes there is a difference between, Social, Professionel , Service or what ever.Orgs Greeks when you are in the open world such on greekchat you are accepted, but there is a wide difference.

I am Am a Proud Member of APO, Service Fraternity, it is not The Same as Being A LXA!

But, as Greek Lettered Orgs., you are still under under the Cloak of Greek Letters. Circumspect so to speak!

As members of Professionional , business, Service Orgs, yo can join a Social Greek Organization and vice versa.

That is the basic difference!

:)

I'd say a lot of it has to do with ignorance of other types of GLOs. On my part it certainly would have, had I not found GreekChat -- before coming on this website, I had no idea that there were such things as multicultural GLOs. I had vaguely heard of Tau Beta Sigma and Sigma Alpha Iota on my campus, but didn't really know what they were about. That girl was obviously ignorant about your GLO -- hope you took the time to give her a bit of info!!!
I also sympathize with you, sairose, as a member of a non-NPC/IFC/NPHC GLO (Phi Sigma Pi in my case). People tend to automatically think that AXiD is more important to me, that PSP is just some side note, just because PSP isn't NPC/IFC/NPHC. And that's not true -- when it comes down to it, I couldn't decide which is more important to me, really.

Yes, I filled the girl in. :D

We have had sisters in the past who were also in social sororities. For instance, we have one right now who is a DZ, and she says some of her sisters think she views SAI as a side note, when she loves us just as much (and she pledged us first).

And I agree with y'all, we ARE different and have different aims. But that would be like us saying NPC groups aren't "real" because their aim is different from ours. We certainly don't do that! So I wish others would pay us the same respect.

I am a member of Alpha Lambda Delta and I take great pride in that as well-- and it's not even a tightly woven sorority. I adore it and I'm on the executive board for it.

I'm sorry-- I consider ALD to be very important and most of my sisters discourage that. When I have prior engagements with ALD or sign in as a member while wearing Sigma Kappa letters, they seem to treat my other org as if it doesn't matter.

Honestly, I do hold Sigma Kappa first in my heart, but ALD is a very important part too-- and many people seem to think that it's some BS org I'm in to be in as a resume marker. That's not it at all.

I think a lot of greeks may have an ignorant mind towards non national social sororities/frats, but it's our turn to educate them.

I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about orgs like SAI, APO, GSS, etc.
I'm curious - do these types of GLO's have risk management policies, national foundations, leadership development training, initiation ceremonies, etc?

Again - just curious.

Yes, they do in most cases.

delete

SAI does! :) We have Rush, pledging, rituals, initiation, handshake, colors...all the things you'd normally think of when you think of a sorority. We're just for musicians, but NOT strictly music majors/minors.

We have a hazing policy, plus things like province weekends and national conventions.

If you ever wanna know anything else, just ask me! :D I love to tell people about us!

Of the orgs you mentioned, I can only speak for Alpha Phi Omega. Yes, APO does address topics of Risk Management such as hazing; however, our policies do not include topics related to housing since APO chapters do not have houses. Since the primary focus of the Fraternity is service, we do not have a single "National Foundation." At the National Convention, a "Program of Emphasis" is chosen around which chapters will focus their service for the year. Yes, APO values leadership training. The Fraternity offers several leadership programs including the Chapter Program Workshops and the Sectional Resource Workshops. Also "APO Leads" is a dynamic Leadership Development Program. Finally, Alpha Phi Omega does have both a new member ceremony and an initiation ritual. These are beautiful ceremonies that were some of my most memberable college moments! While APO is not a "secret society," the initiation ritual is kept "private" among Brothers.

Beta Sigma Phi is unlike any other group I have encountered, but it is similar to traditional GLOs in many ways as well. Beta has several International Funds including the Beta Sigma Phi Breast Cancer Research Fund which is about to reach 1 million dollars!! Although we do not have a ritual that is called "initiation," Beta has several rituals. The Opening and Closing rituals are open rituals that are performed at every meeting. A new member goes through the "Pledge Ritual," and after six months of traning, she goes through the "Ritual of Jewels." Subsequent years of membership and study lead to other "degrees" that are earned through additional rituals.

Hope this helps!

Erica

If you are interested, Tau Beta Sigma's national website is:

http://www.kkytbs.org/

At the recent national convention there were over 800 attendees:
http://www.kkytbs.org/2003natconv.html

It's a small group compared to NPC et al groups but still of significant size none the less. We do all the things any NPC group does except participate in formal rush. At my school we would not have considered it. We do require you to be in marching band, but we had everything else, letter jersies, rituals, pledge periods etc etc.

Gamma Sig has all those things too! We do recuitment, initiation, activation, retreats, conferences, conventions, mascots... colors... crest... all that good stuff!
Check out www.gammasigmasigma.org -- or just ask me anything! (I loooove being Historian :) )

This is an interesting thread. I go to a small school, so we only have social GLOs (local and national). I never really realize HOW big some of the non-social focus GLOs were. AST has close to 70 chapters and we are NPC, but some of these other groups are much bigger than us...it's neat, too bad some people make mean comments :(

....
 

I understand completely what you're going through. When I ordered the TBS tote bags I got the same thing. "Are you guys national?" "oh you're not a real sorority". And I hate that!! GRR!

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Re: I know the feeling...
 

Can I say this:
That is EFFED UP! and the GLOs that were guilty of saying that should be VERY ashamed of themselves! :mad:

I'll pretty much agree with you, ktsnake, although I will note that many Phi Mu Alpha chapters are part of their campus IFCs and participate in all Greek activities at their campuses. From what I can tell, this seems to be more common at smaller colleges. I also know of Phi Mu Alpha chapters with no music majors or minors in them.

And I think it goes a little deeper, too, because on many campuses and for a variety of reasons, the music department/music school is almost a world unto itself. Groups like Phi Mu Alpha and SAI were founded when that was even more the case (or when conservatories were indeed seperate) so as to provide students in that environment the fraternal experience. But this "academic isolation," if you will, can perpetuate both the "insular" recruitment and the interaction only with other music GLOs. (Aside from Phi Mu Alpha, SAI, Kappa Kappa Psi and Tau Beta Sigma, there are Mu Phi Epsilon and Delta Omicron, as well as locals.)

Quote:

Many folks don't really know what SAI and organizations like it are so they probably consider them to be similar to an honorary or professional GLO that meets once a month and does a service project.

You got that right. And that, in my opinion, is mainly our fault for not getting word about ourselves out. But one does sometimes run into folks who aren't giong to, shall we say, expand their views of reality to figure out how we fit in. You know, we have to write the memo for people to get the memo, but even after the memo goes out, a few people will refuse to read it.

Quote:

When you get down to it, the solution to the problem is all in your hands.

Again, I agree. And while I can't say anything for any other group, I am glad to see that more and more Phi Mu Alpha chapters seem to be doing something about it.

And to tfj-1893: Yes, we have all those things, plus just about everything else one would associate with "traditional" general fraternities (except that most chapters do not have houses). The difference is that we have a "special interest," if you will, that is an integral part of our identity.

Since MysticCat said everything I was going to say, I'll just answer tfj-1893's questions in regard to Delta Omicron.

Much like Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, we willingly accept and actively recruit non-music majors and minors. I myself am one of those "recruits".... I don't have one iota of musical talent. Had I not been rushed by DO first, I would have joined an NPC on my campus. We run (or ran, at my time, things have changed) very, very much like an NPC sorority.

We have risk management programs, a national foundation, weekly meetings, ritual, philanthropy, socials, mixers, etc. When I was in college, we regularly held activities with the other "social" fraternities and sororities. We have formals and retreats. Some chapters have houses. The only way we differ from a strictly social sorority is that we have a "focus", as MysticCat put it, in music.

Edited to add: I thought I should note that as MysticCat mentioned, the variety in 'temperment' so to speak of these groups is wide, and can change very fast. Some chapters of DO, PMA, SAI, etc. are very social (like the chapter I pledged). Some are strictly professional. This depends greatly on the members at the time and what they want out of it. When I was an active, we were more interested in the social and sisterhood aspects rather than just having something to put on a resume. Five years later, a different group is in there and wants it to mainly be another society to boast about. In another 5 years, who knows, perhaps it will be a social organization again. It's hard to make a blanket statement about what a group is about when you have tens of thousands of members who may all want different things. Delta Omicron strives to be all of those things for every member.

Phi Sigma Pi does! We have ceremonies, like initiation, big/little, and induction, risk management stuff, two national conventions a year, and, according to the website, approximately 20,000 brothers and 100 chapters across the country.
One thing that Phi Sigma Pi does, that I haven't heard of other GLOs doing, is having interchapter events. A chapter will hold an event specifically for brothers from other chapters to come and hang out with us. It's great fun, roadtripping into other states...some people drive halfway across the country for the good ones! Does any other GLO do things like this? I wish AXiD would do it, too, because it's a lot of fun to meet people from other chapters!

Phi Mu Alpha does, particularly among chapters in the same province. Many provinces also have a province "trophy" that one chapter "steals" from another and holds until yet another chapter "steals" it from them. The "exchange" from one chapter to another often involves an impromptu party.

Edited to add: It is also very common for chapters to invite other chapters, as well as alumni brothers in the area, to their initiations.

I just had to throw in a little side note, here, for MysticCat. The UW-Whitewater and UW-Platteville chapters of Sinfonia are nearly inseparable. In fact, we often need to explain to our new members which guys go to our school, and which are from Platteville :) It's great to see brotherhood like that, even from chapters that are over an hour apart!

YES they are. I loved it when the UWW guys came to visit - the old Sinfonia house was very near ours and one of our sisters is best friends with one of their brothers! Those guys are so much fun to hang out with and I loooove their serenades.

Thanks for passing that along Ginger and GeekyPenguin -- great to hear!!

I have had this same problem at my school as well. I have heard people say that we are a veggie sorority because we are a local and not a national sorority. Also, can you be in a social and and a service org at the same time cause I thought it was a conflict of interestsl.

"veggie sorority"??? what is the story behind that insult? All I can think of are the Veggie Tales videos. :)

And yes, you can be in a social and service at the same time. I am :D.

See, I just don't get why a local should be considered less of a sorority than an NPC one.

People will join different kinds of sororities for different reasons. See, I knew I could not afford an NPC sorority and I realized SAI better fit my life and my interests, so I chose to pledge them. Other people have an interest in service and choose to join orgs like APO because it better fits what they want out of greek life. Others will join a local sorority because, IMO, they are usually smaller and some people feel like they fit in better there. I simply don't understand why anyone should put down another Greek because they are in a different type of GLO.

I'll go here again
 

I think a main reason locals are considered by some to be lesser than an NPC org is their behavior. While obviously not every local behaves in the same way, many locals exist just to have letters and be "cool" because they're in a house. There's obviously members of a lot of great locals on here, but there's also locals that suck, just like some NPC chapters suck.

This is an interesting topic. I've never actually heard people or heard about people calling TNX a non-regular....or whatever...sorority.

They pretty much want to know why we consider ourselves multicultural...

Several years ago, the Campus Activities Chair of my APO chapter contacted the IU Student Foundation to find out what we had to do to participate in IU Sing. (It is a competition where groups put together song-and-dance skits and it is great fun.) There were lots of brothers in the chapter who wanted to participate. The person in charge of IU Sing said that the competition was only open to residence halls and fraternities and sororities...and apparently APO didn't count as a fraternity because we weren't part of IFC. :mad:

It is a term that is used at my school for locals because they don't really know what our sorority is about and they make fun of us. Mainly, because we are not national and not at the time incorporated and some other locals on our campus have given us a bad name. I think it sucks, people hate on us all the time. Well, what do you think about being in a local and a national sorority at the same time? I have heard locals discuss it and even some of my sisters have talked about it.

A lot of people run their mouth and don't really know why locals were founded and my nationals start out as locals but new locals always get played. My sorority was started in 1987 and we were the first sorority at my school but people still tried to hate us.

It's not whether the sororities are local or national, it's the TYPE of sorority that matters. You can be in a local social sorority and a national service sorority. But you cannot be in 2 social sororities, no matter what combination of national or local they are (2 n, 2 l or 1 n 1 l).

We are a service local and i have heard some of my sister saying they want to join a national service. I don't think they know that you can't.

You may be able to be in two service sororities at the same time... in fact I'm nearly positive. What 33girl was referring to is that you can not be in two SOCIAL sororities at the same time.