Native American Casinos
 

In Oklahoma, this is starting to become a pretty major issue with some folks. Native American run Casinos have really hit horse tracks, etc. in the pocketbook. Horse tracks are traditionally a huge source of tax revenue while NA Casinos do pay taxes according to current compacts but they're at like half the rate of what a non NA business would have to pay. They also have games that the horse tracks can't have.

What do ya'll think of these institutions? Are they great for the tribes or are they a detriment to rural American where they are usually located?

I live in Connecticut, home of Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun. I've never actually been to either. (I'm not a gambler.) They are both gigantic complexes (Foxwoods especially) and people come by the busload from all over the Northeast.

From what I've seen, it's good for the tribes, and it's good because it creates jobs for both Native Americans and non-Native Americans in the area. I don't think betting on horses is such a huge revenue generator around here... but like I said, I'm not a gambler, so I'm not sure.

If anything, they're stealing revenue from Atlantic City... and who cares about Jersey anyway? j/k :p

who cares if they are stealing revenue from that dump? we stole all their land.

That's kinda how I feel.

The thing that isn't cool is when people who are like 1/64 NA get their hands in the pot. I mean, come on.

I work on a reservation, a reservation that has a casino. I think that the NAs that are truly "getting rich" off the casinos are on the smaller reservations or on the reservations back east. Pine Ridge, the rez i work on, and nearby Rosebud both have casinos, yet in both instances the majority of Lakota still live in poverty.

As far as the 1/64th thing. The number of "pure" native americans is ever decreasing as tribal members leave the rez for better opportunities. What matters more than your blood is whether you're a registered member of the tribe. I'm about 1/32, but when i tell people my mother's maiden name, Coats, they know i'm Lakota because my relatives have been tribal members for years. My sister and i are BOTH tribal members, as my mom petitioned for our memberships. Course, i'm not seeing any casino revenues :)

Kitso
KS 361

Yah, I think that's more what I meant. If you're 100% NA and you've gone all your life without acknowledging your heritage, and then when the casino $$$ comes along you want to shout it from the rooftops, booooo on you.

p.s. Are you stopping in Pgh this weekend?

They are building a resort style casino out by where my Dad lives. (North of Tulsa) I love casinos. And I never go out to Shreveport. I will probably visit my Dad a bit more often. ;)

But I do feel bad. This is Oklahoma, these are not rich communities. There are a minority of well off individuals in these smaller towns. Poor people with a predisposition to drinking and gambling problems are only going to sink lower with the influx of all these casinos. I have to wonder if these casinos are going to truly benefit the Native American population in these communities. :(

I think in Oklahoma the situation kind of stinks. NA Casino money is finding its way into places it really shouldn't go. I attended (as a member of the media) Brad Henry's victory/watch party (newly elected OK governor, Democrat). I can tell you that a very good number of NA contributors were there. Very rich folks by the way they were dressed.

It seems really crooked to me that a few folks NA and even non NA's are getting rich while the majority of the tribe lives in poverty, not having close to the number of opportunities their rich leaders do.

Some tribes opt to send out paychecks to all on their roles. Others put the money into development on the reservations. I'm for anything that gives people the opportunity to improve their lives, I'm just not convinced that these operations are doing more good than harm.

I really dislike them. I grew up in an area that I thought would remain untouched, so to speak, for at least another 100 years. Then the casino opened up, and all hell breaks loose. Traffic is unbearable. A family friend of ours was killed by a gambler driving home. What used to be a relatively safe, two-lane highway has now been designated as a "safety corridor" because of the higher rate of accidents caused by all the casino traffic. The casino has also successfully lobbied to have the main highway raised by (I forget the exact number - 5 or 10?) X feet so that the gamblers can still make it up to the casino when it floods. The only problem is this will cause even more flooding in the farmers' fields, and there will probably be some broken axles and farm implements resulting from pulling onto the newly-raised road.

I am very happy for the Wintun people. My dad said they were so dirt poor when he was growing up that the kids he knew didn't even have shoes. Now they are wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. It's too bad that their wealth had to come at the expense of the tranquility of the place where I grew up.

Let's be realistic for a moment - sooner or later, each rural settlement will be overrun by the city folks. That's undeniable. However, I can guarantee that the majority of the folks who live in those rural areas would much rather have it happen later, not sooner.

I think you can guess what I have to say on the matter - Casinos are a detriment to rural areas. If the gov't is going to allow the Indians to build casinos in rural areas, then the gov't should use their right of eminent domain to give the Indians a reservation off of a major highway equipped to handle all of the traffic and congestion. I don't know if the Indians consider their current reservations as sacred, but they must not be too worried about it because they're paving over everything with parking garages, restaurants, and luxury homes.

I'll stop now...

[EDIT]
They're both!
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These casinos are everywhere out here. The only time I ever really go to one is for a concert. They are limited in the type of games that they can have so I prefer the drive to Nevada to gamble. I don't see a problem with them. The two that I am most familiar with do a lot of good for their local communities, not just the NA community.

The country should get rid of Indian casinos right now and supply a cash grant to the people and provide services for every damn wrong they've done to them and still do to them.

-Rudey
--Case closed.

Ah yes, more government involvement. That's the answer!

They have their own governments and usually cash-strapped governments can't provide such things as education and healthcare. I guess we could lower government involvement.

People without any education could educate their children. And people operating without any government oversight or medical education provided through government grants and usually occuring in government funded hospitals can provide their healthcare.

-Rudey

The already do. If those tribes were treaty tribes. The Oglala Lakota signed a treaty. The people out here get government checks and commodities every month. They get free health care at Indian Health Services. The school where i work is a Indian grant school, meaning that the money for our budget comes from the federal government. So, basically, y'all's taxes are going to pay me to sit here and post on GC ;)

Seriously though, Rudey, that is not the answer. The people up here "claim" themselves as a soverign nation. They have their own goverment, Tribal police have authority over any SD authorities. Basically, they are "independant" from America, but at the same time, they are nothing more than wards of the state.

What would benefit these people a whole hell of a lot more is if GM, Ford or some other big company put a manufacturing plant here on the Rez, in return for tax breaks, and the government lessened their handouts. Right now, these people live from check to check, with little to no motivation to get and hold a real job.

hand-outs is not the answer. Motivation to work is.

Kitso
KS 361 times the people don't want to hear that, but it's true

It's a big bad secret but politicians can bring in manufacturing plants, sports teams, financial firms and it hurts tax payers...they could achieve the same and better if they just did a transfer of money.

-Rudey
--It's just a trick. Every economist knows it.

I'm not an economist, so i can't speak to that. I do know that a lot of times projected "revenues" to a community when trying to woo taxpayer support for proposed sports teams/arenas is often grossly inflated. If i remember my Economics of Recreation class, what should be used to measure true economic impact is money NEW to the community, brought by visitors to the area that were drawn by said arena or sports team who wouldn't have visitied w/o said attraction. At least i think that's what Crompton was trying to say.

But, i feel the US government would be doing more to help the Lakota if they ceased the 'hand-outs' and made them get a job and earn their pay.

Kitso
KS 361

Your professor was wrong. If you want I'll tell you about sports teams arenas.

An owner goes to the mayor and says I want a new stadium. Give it to me. Why do I want a new stadium? Because I will collect most of the revenue from the luxury boxes in that stadium. For about 5 years that will provide me personally with a boost in income. You know what I will do if you don't give this to me Mr. Mayor? I will leave town and you will have a whole lot of voters hating you. A couple teams have actually even followed through with the threat and remember how other politicians would love to have me in their state...so why don't you do it?

Mr. Mayor says "Yeah why not...nobody will really know what happened". Basically the city funds the stadium and is responsible for a ton of debt from it and also the costs afterwards. The profits would never even cover the costs but regardless they go to the owner. The local economy has not improved at all. How much of a profit is there on a hat? a shirt? Not too much...regardless think about how many hats and shirts you'd have to sell to make up for that debt. Now let's take this further, the economy is suffering. People are on the highway going to the stadium and on the roads on the weekend. Local retailers lose money because people don't come out due to the traffic. The city pays for extra police to come out and monitor things. etc. etc.

If you don't believe anything else I say, believe that. I'll show you all the math if you want or I'll let you do some interesting reading. Allen Sanderson is quite possibly one of the top 3 sports economists. He breaks down all these myths in sports in an easy to understand way and is brilliant. Anyway, take that and apply it to anything that the city spends money on. All this stuff is about bragging rights. Chicago brags about the Bears and builds them an amazing stadium which has even less seats than before but more luxury boxes and NYC brags about all the financial firms that are putting it in the red because of "tax breaks".

-Rudey

That's pretty much true, I think. Especially when the team (read that the owner) also gets the parking, concessions, etc.

But those projections are inflated. What difference does it make if I go to a Broncos game in Mile High Stadium or the new Invesco Field at Mile High? The money is still being spent in the same place by the same person -- just more of it is going to the team now. That can't be counted as an added benefit to the community.

As for the Native Americans, I'm a little over 1/8 Cherokee, but have never gotten a penny and never will. But that's my choice.

NA Casinos are HUGE up here (literally). I'm not any part NA and know not much at all but my understanding is that every tribal member gets a monthly check out of the profit from the casino. I'm always amazed though that the casino is doing so well, and yet you drive through the reservation and see run down homes with fancy new cars out front. It seems to me that the monthlyt check is just further reason to not work. They get the money regardless, so why work. Mind you, I think the checks are pretty good size on the larger reservations up here (Puyallup, Tulalip, Muckleshoot).

I don't know how it is in other areas but we also have quite a bit of contention between the tribes and the non-Indians who live on the land. The whole "no representation" argument. And it's fairly common in certain areas up here.

And then there's the lovely Makah whale hunts...........

I support NA casinos. Because I don't think its a good idea to be drunk while playing high stakes poker.

I agree Kitso. I am of the opinion that reservations tend to perpetuate the problems that many American Indians face such as unemployment, suicide, high school dropouts and alcoholism/substance abuse. If a casino provides a way for American Indians to have employment, greater economic independence from the US, and a facility that assists/promotes the greater good of the tribal community, and provides a way for the tribe members to have pride in an accomplishment then I'm all for it. I do think they should put the revenues back into the tribal community itself though. I don't think casino's are the ONLY way to accomplish this though. The AI's need something (motivation) to help them gain more self worth and esteem within tribes, between tribes and within the dominant culture of the US.

Rudey - There are huge funds managed (mismanaged) by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Governmental agencies have mishandled American Indian trust funds in the past, and many of these people continue to experience extreme poverty. The US has tried to governement involvement and money to pay off their wrongs for a long time, and it has only succeeded in turning once proud nations into groups living on the dole with no sense of purpose. Funds are dispursed to Federally RECOGNIZED tribes only - there are about 550 tribes recognized, many more tribes are not recognized. There is numerous fighting between various tribes too, and the red tape for a tribe to become recognized is about 10 years long.

AI's are becoming much more political. Some do contribute significantly to politicians, if they feel it will further their causes (such as casinos, land, etc).

These nations (tribes) are established as a separate entity from the United States and have sovereign immunity status and the ability to govern themselves. They work on a government to government basis with the United States. They don't have to follow our rules and can do whatever the heck they want to do on their land. The US Government has broken treaty after treaty with the AI's, and has treated them deplorably as have many American citizens. I 'm not sure more government involvement is the answer. More AI's are getting educations in the areas of teaching, medical services, etc, and are returning and putting efforts back into the tribes.

The US was their land first, and as far as being detrimental to rural areas, why shouldn't American Indians give back to the people of the USA exactly what the people of the USA gave to them over the past 200 years? American Indians had land, status, and resources. The USA has taken a large portion of this from the AI's. We've destroyed the land, and built those super highways and shopping centers and houses. If they want to build luxury homes, parking garages and everything else on their land in rural areas, who are we to judge?
I'll get off my soap box now! Forgive me for the long rant.

I would have to agree, as I think your words fit almost any situation.

I have only been to one NA Casino, which is in Iowa. I was a little shocked that it was okay for 18 year-olds to gamble, but there also wasn't any drinking. I don't know much about the NA Casinos, so I can't comment specifically, other than what I've learned on here.