What's Your Opinion on this article?
 

Act Your Age, and Vice Versa

By Judith Martin (aka Miss Manners)
Sunday, November 9, 2003; Page D02

Social problem No. 1: Children are growing up too fast. Elementary school students are routinely exposed to sex and drugs, and not just in the television shows they see and the video games they play. Ten-year-olds are dressing like world-weary tramps and thugs. The young are extremely touchy about being treated with respect. At a tender age, they start rebelling against authority.

Social problem No. 2: Adults are refusing to grow up. Middle-aged people are watching animated shows, playing games at work, collecting stuffed animals and paying high prices at restaurants for comfort food. Businessmen protest against wearing business clothes to work, and partygoers protest against wearing party clothes to parties, all with the claim that they feel comfortable only in their simple and sturdy play clothes. They are insulted at being treated with respect. At an advanced age, they are still rebelling against taking responsibility.

It has thus become possible, Miss Manners notes, to go through one's entire life dissatisfied with one's own age and pretending to be another.

It strikes her that there might be possibilities here of arranging a swap. Children would be in charge of running things, keeping their sins private and their tastes privileged, while adults would forfeit respect but gain respite from responsibility.

Or has that already taken place?

In the manners realm, it would certainly seem so. It is a favorite complaint of adults that children don't know how to behave toward them, but it seems to Miss Manners that the little ones are learning the manners that the big ones are teaching them.

These stem from the great modern prudery, which is not about sex (as you may have noticed) but about age. Adults have taught children that it is rude to notice that they are much older than the children themselves:

"Don't call me 'sir' -- that makes me feel old."

"I'm not Mrs. Wiggleston; that's my mother-in-law. Everyone calls me Muffin."

"Why are you getting up? Do I look as if I'm too old to stand?"

"How dare you offer me a senior citizen rate!"

Adults who are busy assuring one another that they look implausibly young, taking drastic measures to sustain the illusion, and condemning aging and death as the result of improper health care and attitudes, are not going to take this sort of thing from the young. What they are teaching is that any violation of the elaborate hoax that nobody ever ages is an insult.

Having defined the teen years and twenties as the only desirable ages to be, they can hardly be surprised that children share their pretensions. As each age group ridicules or deplores the other's falsifications, an idea of how their own look might arise.

Each has its excuses, Miss Manners understands. Children can't remain in the artificial comfort of childhood when they are so blatantly exposed to the harshness of the real world. And adults who are beleaguered by the harshness of the real world naturally want to retreat to the comforting artificial one.

I agree...and I have problems w/ both groups. If I had a kid (say around 8 years old) who said "You better respect me" I would probably break my policy of non-spanking. I hate to say it, but most of the children I know are little sh*ts and deserve a good dose of discipline (tho not necessarily spanking). I want to tell some parents "Hey your kid won't melt if you tell them 'no', 'be quiet' or 'sit down'." Yet another reason I dont' want kids...
And what's wrong w/ respecting older people? While it freaks me out when high school kids call me "ma'am" I know that 9 times out of 10 they won't give me any lip or problems. It used to be a mark of honor to get old.

I think that article hits things dead on. I've been telling people that for the past coupel of years........only my pscyhologist or friends of mine in masters programs in psychology or sociology agree with me. Everyone else looks at me like wtf?

YOu're absolutely right about kids today lacking discipline. Hell I dont even think they get assigned enough homework anymore if any at all. Discipline needs to expand to all areas i think not just "corrective discipline." I also agree about your non-spanking reasoning.

I used to ride the city bus to campus when i went to UK. It was nothing at all for me to give my seat up for an elderly lady or gentleman, who were most grateful. I woudl get looks from those my own age like "I cant believe you gave up your seat!" What ever has happened to common courtesy???

I just Love Pshyco-ologist!:rolleyes:

Hell, I was older for my age back when!


I have my own who comes in the Store, but now, she does Cats!:( Well at the Local Vets, yep them kind of cats!:confused: :rolleyes:

I always wondered if Pschyo-ologist deal with Nutsoinds if this does not rub off on them!:confused:

Osmosis is a process for not only bodily functions but of the mind too!:rolleyes:

i agree too

This is an excellent, and very true, article!

It should be required reading for the women my age (36) who run around in platform shoes, looooooooow rider jeans and tummy-baring baby-T's.

As per usual, Miss Manners is right on the money! Those of us who are over 21 should start behaving like adults, and insist that we are called by the appropriate Mr./Mrs/Ms, or even Miss First Name, if one must.

In working with geriatrics, I can see such a difference if I call a client "Miss Eleanor" and "Eleanor" - by age alone, she has earned the right to the honorific.

I feel sorry for the children of today - there's too many grey areas for them! I applaud those parents who are taking their kids in hand and teaching them manners and respect for others. Those children will be the leaders of tomorrow - not the screaming brat who has an IQ of 180 but has no social accumen.

It is sad very upsetting to see young children losing their innosence at such a young age. I'm grateful, I was always sheltered by the hardships of life by my parents. I was forced to be a little girl, despite every effort against it. I was allowed to grow up accordingly and always had my independance to a certain extent. In the grand scheme I lived a happy childhood, adolescence and now its time for bigger and better things like ZTA;).

When I was a Sunday school teacher at my church, the kids used to call me "Miss Kelly" even though I was only 16-20! The funny thing is that I never instructed them to address me that way!


I've had people address me as "Miss" and "Ma'am" - I'm 26 years old and I don't mind at all.


My father taught me to always address adults respectfully. Ohhhh myyyy goodnesssss....I would *never* let my dad hear me call my friend's mom "Patty" instead of saying, "Mrs. Smith." Conversely, my friends were not allowed to call my dad "Mike." It's always been "Mr. ____" or "Papa", for close friends who are practically like sisters to me.


Growing up, I was quite mature for my age as far as thought process and conduct goes. As an adult, I do believe that I act my age. My biological sister, who is older, does not always act her age (she acts younger).


But anyway, I agree with the article that adults don't want to be seen as old, yet they want younger people to give proper respect which was historically given to "older people". That message is confusing. Either you're a "respected adult", or you're their "hip friend" - crossing the two starts to get things all mixed up!


.....Kelly :)

I haven't formed an opinion on the entire article yet. But on the respect your elders part, I think this: I believe that some people deserve respect and some people do not, young or old. I was taught to question authority if I felt it necessary and not to believe everything adults and people in positions of power tell me. I've came into contact and been hurt by many f**ked up adults and I'm glad that this "value" is becoming more outdated.

One of my daughter's friends can't seem to remember my name so she calls me "Miss Shannon's Mom".. it's very funny. The boys in my Cub Scout den call me and the other leader "Miss...". My kids have always done this. There does seem to be a trend to be Miss (first name) instead of last name (except in school). I have to wonder if this is because lots of parents have different last names than their kids now.

I am already battling with my "almost" 10 year old over things like platform shoes, belly shirts, etc. She wants to dress like Britney Spears.

Dee

I agree with that article. There is no need for children to dress like little prostitutes and thugs. However, I am not sure about the famous mid life crisis, the jury is still out.

In the recent past, kids and younger adults have called me (a 30 year old) "ma'am". That really made me feel old. Here is the irony, that I look like I am somewhere between 18-21. If I look younger, why call me "ma'am"?


http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili.../pinkieone.gif

When I was growing up, the adults at the one end of the street insisted on being called by their first name, but my parents and another friends' parents wouldn't let us - or our friends to use the parental first names.

When we hit those difficult teenage years, the children of the "hip parents" were the ones who rebelled the most, and caused the most problems. The one mother once called me crying, saying, "I do everything I can to make Stephanie my friend! How are you & your mother so close but Stephanie rejects me?!" I remember thinking, "Because you're her mother, not her friend!" but not having the guts to say it.

And guess what? When I did become an adult, my mother DID become my best friend! I realized that she always was - that's why she & my dad were so strict with me when I was a teenager!

I couldn't agree more with this article... gooooo Miss Manners. She is the bomb!

I don't think the two things have any connection at all. To say that little kids dressing like "tramps and thugs" = little kids dressing like teenagers is wrong. Not all teens dress in that manner and to say that they all do is very wrong.

I was a little old lady when I was a kid. I still like cartoons (preferably Beavis and Butt-Head). I would rather wear jeans and a t-shirt than a dress or suit any day. I despise being called "Ma'am" as it is a contraction for Madam, which implies a married person. I don't like the assumption that since I am on the other side of 25, I should be married.

I was just reading Cher's bio and I think her experience is somewhat typical of a lot of women. She married very young and then divorced and discovered all the things she missed. I guess Miss M finds it distasteful that 40 year old Cher dated a 22 year old man who is one of the hottest things I've ever seen. I doubt that she would have a problem with a 40 year old man dating a 22 year old woman.

in other words, I think Miss Manners is full of shit. :p There's nothing wrong with looking 40 when you are 40. There is something wrong with looking 40 when you are 25. This was epidemic in my hometown - I was the freak as I was 24 and still not attached - which is why I got the hell out.

Hahah, 33girl...funny!

I do agree that there are lots of kids without any discipline and that there are some people trying too hard to be young.

There's a woman in one of my classes and she's easily on the other side of 40. But she hangs out with some girls that are 23 or 24 and dresses like them. It's kind of sad to see a 40something year old woman wearing low rise boot cut jeans with an Abercrombie tee and a newsboy cap. It just looks silly. She doesn't have to dress like Martha Stewart, but the teenybopper crap is way too young for her.

I don't agree that its inapropriate for adults to be watching cartoons. I'm 23 and will never stop watching them. I know when its a proper time and place to rock my Hello Kitty gear, and when its not (i.e., I don't wear them to school!). I hate it when people call me ma'am. FI's sister-in-law is due with a baby any day now and we've requested to NOT be called aunt and uncle - we just don't feel old enough for it.

Too bad it will never change. Well it will eventually, but we'll all be dead.

I don't much care what people do or what people wear . . .

Men of any age will wear pretty much the same types of clothes.

So does age appropriate dress mostly pertain to women?

And is it women that mostly care or notice?

If men see a scantily clad female the only thing we really care about is how good she looks scantily clad.

The only reason we discriminate on the basis of age is because standards of desirability in women center on youthfulness.

If you think of make-up, it is designed to enhance but also to make features look as if they are in the first flush of youth.

I think this is true to a point, but it sucks. No matter how old you are, I say if you've got it, flaunt it. Just because you're in your thirties (or older) doesn't mean you should have no sense of style. If you look good and feel good, go for it.

Yes, and if you don't got it, don't flaunt it. Some women just don't know when to quit.

I used to wear miniskirts, often. I haven't for a long time because I don't have the body I used to and am aware of that fact. But some women think just because they could wear it at 19 they can wear it at 39.

However - if I still had the bod I used to back in the day - would I wear short shorts and minis? Hell yes.

incidentally, I've always been a sort of tailored/classic dresser. It's probably been a lot easier for me than someone who always wore the cutting-edge clothes the minute they came out.

The thing is that youth works heavily for some girls. A lot of the girls that are cute in high school and the early part of college just sorta become hideous and whorish after a while. That's why I always go after high school girls. I keep getting older but they stay the same age.

-Rudey
--They have to be a little more than cute though.

I agree that children are growing up too fast. They're being exposed to sex and violence at a young age (:() rather than being allowed to be innocent. Clothing designers make midriff-baring tops and short shorts in little-girl sizes - because they sell. Kids are wearing inappropriate outfits to school (which is why I support strict dress codes in schools).

I can also see the argument that a lot of adults are blurring the line between childhood and adulthood. I have been introduced to 5yo kids by my first name - I'm in my 20s but it still rankles me. I've given up my seat on the subway and had people look at me like wtf? It seems like a lot of parents want to be friends with their kids first, rather than authority figures. (Disclaimer: I am not yet a parent.)

As for clothes, I agree, if you've got it, flaunt it ;) but if you don't got it, don't flaunt it. If you're five years old, you don't got it. If you look like mutton dressed as lamb, you don't got it.

The woman I was referring to is kind of pathetic because her face looks her age, if not older. She's got a decent body, but the face just doesn't match the clothes. She just comes off as trying too hard to look like she's 15.

I think it depends on the total package - if you look young, dress young. If you have a more mature look, then go with something more apropriate- otherwise you'll just look like you're playing dressup in your grandkids' clothes