Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC
 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_condoms_dc_1

Catholic Churches Say Condoms Don't Stop AIDS - BBC
2 hours, 49 minutes ago


LONDON (Reuters) - The lives of Roman Catholics in some of the countries worst hit by HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS (news - web sites) are being put at even greater risk by advice from their churches that the use of condoms does not prevent transmission of the disease, according to a British television program.

If condoms cannot be absolutely guaranteed to block sperm, they stand even less chance of stopping the much smaller virus, the churches' argument runs.

The Roman Catholic church opposes any form of artificial contraception -- particularly condoms, which it says promote promiscuity.

But the traditional opposition is now being reinforced by arguments over their efficacy.

"The moral argument against the use of condoms is being superseded by a clinical argument which is flawed," said Steve Bradshaw, reporter on the BBC Panorama program "Sex and the Holy City" that will be aired in Britain on Sunday night.

"The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon," Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, president of the Vatican (news - web sites)'s Pontifical Council for the Family, told the program.

"The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom."

He said that just as health authorities warned about dangers like tobacco, so they had an obligation to issue similar warnings about condoms.

The Archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told the program: "AIDS...has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

While in Luak near Lake Victoria, Gordon Wambi, director of an AIDS testing center, said he had been prevented from distributing condoms because of church opposition.

Bradshaw told Reuters the program team did not go out looking for the story, but stumbled across it during research.

"We heard the same line so many times from different people in different places that we decided to approach the Vatican," he said.

The World Health Organization (news - web sites), guardian watchdog of global wellbeing, rejected the Vatican view.

"These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million," the WHO told the program.

It conceded condoms could break or be damaged and permit passage of semen, but said they reduced the risk of infection by 90 percent and were certainly secure enough to prevent passage of the virus if not torn.

Panorama said scientific research had found intact condoms were impermeable to particles as small as sexually transmitted infection pathogens -- a view rejected by Trujillo.

"They are wrong about that...this is an easily recognizable fact," he told the program.

From Nicaragua to Kenya and the Philippines, the Panorama team found the same tale from the Catholic church -- that condoms can kill.

No official comment from the Vatican was immediately available on Thursday.

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My $.02: I'm sorry, and no offense to Catholics, but this is just plain irresponsible on the Vatican's part. I am absolutely shocked that they would spread this misconception in areas of the world that are hardest hit by this horrible disease and that also do not have access to correct information from other sources. I realize that they are against birth control, and that abstinence is the only way to completely prevent the spread of the disease, but to spread complete lies about how people can protect themselves if they do have sex is just wrong. :mad:

Which is why I am now a plain old Christian despite being raised Catholic all my life. Props to them for trying to rewrite parts of the bible to fit their needs.

I should go to Purgatory next Spring Break, work off some of the sins.

:rolleyes:

And they wonder why so many people my age are "lapsed." I wonder how they'd feel about Student Health Services on our campus handing out condoms. ;)

That's appalling. :mad:

Yeah, I get closer and closer to turning in my RC card every day with crap like this being tossed down from the Vatican on the Mount! GEEZ! :rolleyes: :mad:

Blah.

You don't want AIDS? Remain abstinant.

It's not 100% false what the Vatican said. AIDS can still be contracted through sex, regardless of whether or not you use a condom.

Condoms aren't a silver bullet or invincibility shield. Besides, the Catholic Church isn't going to come out and support something that encourages people to live their lives in sin.

PS. If you're not Catholic and are not worried about getting into Heaven, then why concern yourself with what they say?

Kitso
KS 361

Amen brother Kitso.

Because they are deliberately putting a lot of peoples lives (both Catholic and non-Catholic) in danger to push their own agenda.

Ok, how are they putting their lives in danger?

What they are saying is that condoms are not 100% safe. They are not saying, Ok condoms aren't safe, so go bareback, they are saying, condoms aren't safe, so you should practice abstinence.

And they're only putting Catholic lives at stake. Non-Catholics could probably give a flying flip what the pope says.

Kitso

Bad, bad condoms. Things like this make me glad I am not a practitioner of the religion of my ancestors. That said, anyone who thinks a condom is always sure protection against AIDS is...

I want that Bible Thumper Barbie!

?

Kitso
KS 361 times you'd better not go all Tom Earp on us, we've already got one, we don't need another

LOL...

NOTHING except for abstinence is 100% effective in spreading AIDS, but it is extremely effective in preventing the spread of the disease...The Roman Catholic church is against any form of artifical birth control, yes, but this statement seems to be saying that they are against people saving their lives!!!!!!!!!!!

Idiots....

No.

They are warning people that they are risking their lives more by living an immoral life and continuing to practice casual sex.

Once again, they did not say, condoms are bad, so don't use them, they are saying, the use of condoms is not a safe alternative to an abstinent life.

Kitso
KS 361

Kitso,

Stop with the common sense, you're going to mess people up.

Kitso- I see your point.

The problem is with people. People won't take this as gee I should be celibate. They will take this like, well if condoms don't work then why bother?

These pronouncements are coming from parts of the world where there is no shortage of sex, but there have always been problems convincing peope to use condoms.

This isn't going to stop the sex, but it may make people less likely to use a condom, and is irresponsible because of that.

I don't think Bible Thumper Barbie would be Catholic. :rolleyes:

Yeah, what she said....

So eloquent, you are lovelyivy!

In school districts where abstinence-only sex ed is pushed, teen pregnancy rates are often actually higher than the places where "safe sex" ed is pushed. Why? Because some abstinence-only programs send the message that "condoms aren't effective at preventing pregnancies." Not "condoms aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancies" -- abstinence-only leaves out the 100% because they want to lead teenagers into thinking condoms are less effective than they are, hoping that they can scare the kids into not having sex. But that doesn't work. What lovelyivy said happens instead -- they figure "Why bother?" and don't use condoms at all.

The same thing could happen here with Catholics and AIDS if they take the same message from it. People won't stop having sex. They'll just stop using condoms.

Furthermore, the message I saw promoted in that article (that condoms cannot stop AIDS because it's soooo small that it can get through the condom) was not just a twisting of the facts to support their point, it was a blatant lie.

Amen lovelyivy!

I don't have a problem with reinforcing the message that abstinence is the best way to prevent pregnancy and the spread of diseases. It is the only 100% effective method. But condoms are pretty effective - certainly better than using no protection. Telling people they don't work, and taking away people's access to condoms, is not going to stop people having sex - it's going to lead to more unprotected sex and more problems.

A little off tangent on the STD discussion, but I just have to point out that even abstinence isn't 100% effective in keeping HIV from spreading, although in terms of sexual contact, you're right. There's always the possibility of blood transfusions, infected needles, etc that can increase the chance of contracting HIV. And I don't know about the rest of you, but the idea that HIV can be contracted that way is much scarier than contracting through sexual activity, considering I (and hopefully most people) have that thought in mind when engaging in any sort of sex, whereas, I don't constantly think that there could be a possibility that I could accidentally come in contact with infection intravenously... scary stuff...

I see this as kind of like the cliche "if someone tells you to jump of a bridge, are you going to do it?"....the majority of people that care and will listen to what the church has to say are probably abstinent anyway, and therefore this doesn't pertain to them.
The church can say what it wants but the people who don't care won't listen. Sure, comments like these might "wake up" a few, but I doubt it will be any significant amount.

By the WTO's own admission, condoms are 90% effective in stopping the transmission of HIV. So if you only have sex 9 times and then stop, you'll be okay... right?

Usually ratings of effectiveness are based on a year's time, not a single sexual encounter. (This is the case with pregnancy rate statistics, at least, so I assume STD-rates are similar.) So if you regularly have sex (with condoms!) with an AIDS-infected person for more than nine years, chances are you'll get the disease too.

As opposed to not using condoms, where chances are that you'll become infected a lot sooner than nine or ten years. :rolleyes:

You mean WHO.

ETA: This poster is just funny

http://www.thestairwell.com/images/r...easeposter.jpg

I agree, but she sounds sooo fun...

Maybe they could also make a Bible Thumper Ken - we can model him after the dude who sits on a main corner on campus and yells at all of us to "Repent, ye Catholic sinners." :p

That's too funny. I love Catholic bashers; they really portray the love of their god. OK, that was mean, I should not judge them.

See for us that would be Fundamentalist Skipper, new with wooden crucifix!

I AM CATHOLIC AND I AM LOVING IT :D

quote:Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Maybe they could also make a Bible Thumper Ken - we can model him after the dude who sits on a main corner on campus and yells at all of us to "Repent, ye Catholic sinners."



Not to get off the subject.......but before i transferred from UK to EKU, there was this man dubbed "preacher man" that would do that outside the student center. In addition to anti-Catholic comments, which most ignored, he also had partners in crime with him that held signs saying things like "Hey Gays, got AIDS yet?" Those however, did NOT get ignored and caused a big uproar. One student, walked up to the preacher man and gave him a dollar to shut up, which preacher man took and pocketed and kept right on. Another student got in his face asking him where the hell he got off having those kinds of posters and saying such assinine comments. The preacher man punched that student in the face and then tried to Biblically justify(in a very poor attempt I might add) why he was right in punching the student. The student was ok,didnt press charges, but did request that preacher man not be allowed back on campus, and he wasnt.........atleast for the remainder of while I was there, and I left Summer 2001.

Oooookay. I didn't think it was news that condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing the transmission of HIV. In fact, they aren't 100% effective against ANYTHING. Also, they are not saying, "Oh well since it doesn't always prevent HIV, you should have unprotected sex." Actually, they teach abstinence until marriage... to my understanding, most churches do. For God's sake, they're not saying condoms cause AIDS!!! :rolleyes:

I am getting married in a Catholic church because my fiance and both of our families are Catholic (I myself don't practice any religion, although I believe in God and Jesus and stuff). So I have to do this Natural Family Planning stuff. Believe me, there are lot of things they say in the book I have to read that I totally disagree with (like birth control pills being a form of abortion). But please, they are not the first people to point out the fact that using condoms doesn't always prevent AIDS.

Oh by the way, my uncle is living proof of that.

So there was a story about teaching condom use in a country where the birth rate was high. The instructor showed the locals how to use a condom by demonstrating on a cucumber. A few months later, the birth rate was still high. When the instructor asked them if they were using condoms. Sure enough they were... on cucumbers.

I don't know if that story is true, but it demonstrates a flaw in birth control instruction. Primarily, that there is no follow up medical care in many of these countries.

I agree with Kitso's posts. :)

link or stats please.

I want verified evidence or studies before i will believe this.

Kitso
KS 361 times i've heard GCer's thow out 'facts' and i'd like to see for myself

Lapsed Catholic, lapsed Catholic oh I'm a lapsed Catholic baby and it's because of shat like this.

We live in a constant state of risk if you think about it. You could walk outside today and be hit by a car or become the victim of some freak accident, people should know this isn't anything knew.

It's the fact that people feed off of the fear that is totally given to us through various outlets. Fear is a part of life and nobody is ever really safe.

Of course the Vatican is probably doing this to restart some type of abstinence movement. Install the "guilt" in some of those catholics (such as myself) that don't make the "right decisions" in the eye of the church.

Seriously though, if we are going to live in a constant state of fear, what's the point of living? it's not fun to fear.

If you are having sex, regardless of your religious views just make sure that's is protected. It might not be 100% safe but it's a lot better than nothing at all.

I am Catholic and loving it also.

This is what I understood from the article. Condoms aren't full proof- the AIDS virus is smaller than sperm, so it can be easily transmitted with a condom. No lies there. Everyone knows condoms aren't 100% protective against STDS and pregnancy. I think the point behind this is the best way to prevent AIDS to abstain. That's what the Catholic Church is promoting.

You'll like this one -- it's a report on Texas. :)

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/usa0902/ (I got this particular quote from the section on virginity pledges.)

"There also is evidence that adolescents who pledge virginity may ultimately be at increased risk of HIV/AIDS infection. A study of virginity pledges often cited by abstinence-only groups found that although there is some evidence that these pledges delay intercourse by an average of eighteen months, as virginity pledges become the norm, they lose their allure and thus their effect. This study also found that virginity pledges have the unintended effect of placing some teens at higher risk of unintended pregnancy and STDs, because teens who break the pledge are one-third less likely than nonpledgers to use contraceptives once they do become sexually active."

There were quite a few other studies that said the same thing or similar, but this was the first thorough study I found.

Actually, in some cases, that's exactly what Catholic priests saying.

A quote from http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story...059068,00.html :

I just read the article and this is stated:

"The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus."


I think I'm going to go with the consensus instead of the Vatican on this one.

*Saying hello to my strict Catholic mother, wherever she might be at this moment*

I think so, too. Maybe the author of the article took the whole thing out of context. If that's the case, then this article is more to blame than the Church is.