Ole Miss... Let's discuss!
 

Now that formal recruitment is over, I thought maybe we could discuss Ole Miss Greek Life.

This year 92% of the 889 PNM's particitpating in Formal Recruitment were placed in one of the nine chapters! Quota was set at 86, which all nine chapters met! However, more than half of the sororities on campus took a pledge class of 90+ NMs!

Now, the chapter sizes are between 180-273, with an average of 240+/-. All chapters are over campus total, unless it has already been raised (HottyToddy can correct these #s if they are off)!

I do not think there will be much of a disagreement that Ole Miss Panhellenic needs a new chapter! The question is how do you go about bringing a new chapter to a Greek System like Ole Miss. As I mentioned on the Rush thread, there would be a large finanical commitment, among other things.

I know that DZ was successful at UF. However, I am not sure we are comparing apples to apples using UF as an example. The largest chapter at UF just reaches 200 members. 7/9 Chapters (might be 8/9) are over 200 members and 5/9 are over 250 members. How do you recruit? Are you willing to make the financial commitment of a house and advertising? And how do you succeed, when several GLOs have closed in the last 20 years?

DISCUSS!!!!!!!!!!

I could be off base on this, but it seems to me that Ole Miss is the type of campus where not only would you have to have not only a strong financial commitment and alumnae base, but it would also have to be an org with a strong southern reputation. I don't really know which those are (I know they're mentioned in the Primer ;) ) but are there any of those that aren't already represented at Ole Miss? It seems to me that you're already at a disadvantage coming on as a new group with no campus history or reputation, so you'd better have a strong reputation at other campuses in the area.

1. Financial Commitment -- This would have to be quite significant. If you've ever seen the sorority houses, you know they are large and impressive and if you've been inside, you know they are beautifully furnished.

2. Strong Reputation -- Someone said on the rush thread earlier that it would need to be a group who had not closed their chapter at either Ole Miss or Miss. State in the past twenty years. I agree with that. The state of Mississippi has quite the network (I've never seen anything like it!). People know others from all over the state. To me, the entire state is like one big "small town."

I get amused reading posts that refer to what Greek Life is like in the "South." Well, I can promise you, the system at Ole Miss takes it to another level!

Ole Miss
 

I think it will be a very large investment for any sorority to colonize at Ole Miss. I agree they would need to have a strong reputation at nearby colleges. And obviously, there is enough interest for another sorority on campus.

As much as I would LOVE to see DZ re-collonize there, I have to admit, I don't think it would be the best use of our money. Our UF colony's success is wonderful. But it has taken enormous work effort from our alums in Florida and a huge amount of cash. I don't know what type of alum base we have in Oxford.

Whoever does get the nod when they decide to expand, better get the swiss bank account ready. That's just the reality at that campus.

Stacey

I forgot to add... that Panhellenic is in discussions about brining another chapter to Ole Miss! Which, fueled my topic!

The only imput I can give is that ZTA just had a chapter colonize at USF (Univ. of South Florida in Tampa) and they pledged 103 girls this year - which is their first year on campus. I agree that it needs to be a chapter with a good southern reputation as well as have the financial resources that will be needed. By the way, what GLO's are there now?

I would love to see AGD there.

Here's the list from Angels&Arrows other thread...
chapters:

AOPi
Chi O
Tri Delt
DG
Theta
KD
Kappa
Phi Mu
Pi Phi

Thanks! Hmmm....maybe ZTA would be a good fit! :)

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think both ZTA and ADPi were at Ole Miss at one time.

oh i was going to say I think ADPi would be a better fit, they are strong in the south and have a great rep and alum base . As much as I would love AGD to be there I just don't think that is possible. They just left MSU last year.
I would love to see another chapter there, though.
.

I have been an adviser for AOII here at Ole Miss since last year. I would like to say that yes we need a new sorority at Ole Miss but I am not sure that is going to happen anytime soon. The main reason is land...there isn't enough of it and there are no more empty sorority houses since the university bought them to use classrooms for Applied Sciences College(old ZTA house) and the Honors College (old ADPi House). I think that the investment a sorority would have to make in order to build a new house, find land (the only land that might be able to hold a house is a parking lot next door to the Tri Delta house), and they must be strong in the south. I would like to see Alpha Gamma Delta here since they are strong at Bama and schools in TN, or even Gamma Phi Beta since they are huge in the south as well.

We use to have Delta Zeta, ZTA, AZDee, and ADPi here at Ole Miss. I think the fact that those houses left for their reasons would make it harder for them to recolonize. However, I know since I work in Alumni Affairs for Ole Miss that they all have strong alumni who would be willing to support a new chapter.

We do have a new philanthropic sorority Omega Phi Alpha. They have about 50 members and are doing well with getting girls who might not be able to afford the dues of a Panhellenic Sorority.

Yes all of the houses did make quota and we (AOII) got 95 new members. I think Pi Beta Phi got 95 as well. Every house got their tip top rushees and the girls that did not get a bid either dropped out or did not play the game. Another reason for the high numbers was that the new regret with interest option helped out big time.


more about rush this year online at the DM online
http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/dis.../3f8261746f0e9

As for the strong alum base of DZs in Florida...there wasnt even a DZ alum chapter in Gainesville until DZ decided to colonize there. That is when one was formed and there are maybe 20-30 women in it. Part of DZs success was all of the chapter consultants they brought in as well as all of the girls from FSU, Auburn, and the University of Tampa. The reason our chapter are not as big as Ole Miss' are is because UF's panhellenic has chosen to expand to keep chapter sizes from getting that big. We too have had recent closings...AZD did in 2000 and DZ colonized in 2002. AZD tried to recolonize but being that it seems to follow trends at all southern universities once you have a certain reputation it follows regardless if you force all of your old members to go alum (which AZD did). DZ has made a huge financial commitment for us and it worked successfully. We had over 500 girls interview for 154 spots, as well as get over quota this past rush. I think that an organization can colonize without a problem as long as they do it right. In Ole Miss's case I would bring in a chapter that has a strong base at schools nearby and have those girls do the rushing....that's what worked for us. Also DZ was on campus everyday promoting from the day school started (middle of August) till the end of September when DZ recruitment started. You could not go anywhere on our campus without seeing a DZ flyer. I think if an organization could follow those steps and make a financial commitment they would have a great chapter at Ole Miss. But like I said I think the organization would need to have a good rep at other nearby schools and need not to have been at Ole Miss recently because their old reputation will follow them.

ZTA left Old Miss in 1999.

http://dm.olemiss.edu/archives/99/99...5Nmccool1.HTML

Alpha Delta Pi just closed our Ole Miss chapter in 1995. IMHO, building the house in a fairly modern style, rather than more ante bellum, was not the best move. There's a strong Mississippi alumnae base, and of course, how much more Southern can you get? :)

I worry that enough time hasn't gone by for ADPi to be accepted with open arms more than anything else.

I heard anecdotally that ZTA is in a unique position to build houses because of the way they are structured nationally (or perhaps how their dues are allocated). Can someone comment on that?

My perception is that ZTA has a National House Corporation rather than individual House Corporations for each chapter in their respective states.

Hmmm...maybe I should sit quietly and let a ZTA answer that question! LOL

Yes, you are correct! NHC works with housing on many different levels for ZTA...houses, lodges, dorm space...and ways...building, renovating, redecorating. A few chapters have local housing corporations but NHC has the best resources. Our chapter at SMU closed in the mid 90's but we still own a house there and it is run by a local housing board.

From what I remember, ZTA was the first to have a national housing corp. Can someone confirm that?

I am 99.9% sure that is correct. I think this was one of the ZTA House Facts we all had to learn during recruitment so that we could tell the PNMs interesting stuff during our house tours. :)

I second that! :D

It sounds like Ole Miss is really ripe for expansion but that it will have to be done wisely!

To summarize our ideas:

1. It should be a strong southern group, or at least a group that is strong in the region

2. It should not be a group that has been there in the past 20 years or a group that has been at Miss. State in the past 20 years

3. It's going to take a ton of $$

4. They'll need a new yet traditional house

5. They have to PR with insanity!

I now have another important question:

In a situation like this, is it best to do a humongus, nationals-involved recruitment AFTER formal recruitment? Or should you do this recruitment during the fall rush period? When my school (also southern) expanded with Kappa Delta in 1997, we chose the latter, and I think it was a mistake. What are the advantages or disadvantages of either option as we see them?

If ADPi and ZTA were both there in the past 20 years, I cannot for the life of me think of another group that has strong southern ties and is not already on campus that would be good for expansion.

All of the chapters represented at Ole Miss are exactly the ones I think of when i hear "strong southern sorority" and the only ones I can think of to go along with those are ADPi and ZTA...

Gamma Phi was mentioned. That might be possible, but I know they're expanding to the University of S. Carolina, so that will be a LOT of work too. I don't know if they're at Miss. State either. Who is? I know someone mentioned that AGD closed there. :(

When did Delta Zeta close at Ole Miss?

I know that Tri-Sigma has had some success colonizing at larger southern schools, too, like UNC-Chapel Hill. Maybe Sigma Kappa?

Edited to add:

NPCs at Mississippi State are AOPi (a colony I think??), Chi Omega, Tri-Delta, DG, KD, Phi Mu, and ZTA.

AGD didn't close at Old Miss... we closed at Mississippi State University about a year or two ago. I don't know the reason why though, if it was lack of alum support or reputation or just a decline of greeks. I think that AGD would be good but doughtful right now.

EK would be a good choice, though as I understand it Georgetown's chapter is the strongest out of many chapters in Kentucky and I don't know about elsewhere in the South (YES Kentucky as a state is Southern... Louisville and Northern Kentucky are not).

I think that most GLOs are not expanding with that much of a committment due to the economy. I think that Old Miss will remain the size that it is for now, but that is simply my opinion.

You are correct. I have a friend that was president at a chapter in Kentucky and they are having a lot of problems in the state right now except for Georgetowns campus where they seem to be doing extremely well.

Not to nitpick or anything, but it's "Ole" Miss.

DZ closed at Ole Miss before I was there (I didn't even know they had been there until I read it on another thread). Alpha Xi Delta closed my freshman year, and both ZTA and ADPi closed years after I left.

that's okay... I thought I was spelling it wrong but didn't change it...

Sadly, breathesgelatin, the AOPi colony at Miss State did not work out. There was not enough interest despite AOPi's strength at Ole Miss. There is a group of girls interested still who are trying to get more recruits so they can have a successful colonization. There is more on this in the AOPi forum. Ole Miss Glitter seems to know best:) She is the one who I believe knew about it.

A group at Ole Miss would definitely have their work cut out for them, but it would be a worthwhile endeavor!!! All the groups sound great.

Ole Miss
 

Well ladies, we can speculate all we want. I'm sure the nice folks in Oxford are already at work deciding how they would like to proceed.

Might I also point out that DZ has large chapters across the south, including my chapter at LSU.

Should our National group decide to entertain expansion at Ole Miss(where they have not been for over 30 years), I'm sure there will be Delta Zetas from many southern states who will be more than happy to help with rush. (Univ of Alabama, Auburn, UF, FSU, LSU, USC, UK, VT, UAV, etc, etc)

I know that several groups would fit in fine there. It's a question of cash ladies. To play at Ole Miss, you have to spend a lot of money.

It will be very interesting to see which group decides to do it(when Ole Miss decides to expand)!

Stacey

I agree with breathesgelatin that this has to be done very, very carefully if they do decide to expand. Ole Miss, from everything I've heard, is one of those schools where a new sorority needs to be able to compete with the others from the get-go or they're doomed from the start.

It seems like all the sororities that normally would be a good fit there (strong Southern sororities) would not, in this case, for whatever reasons. Sororities that are strong nationally and with some strong Southern chapters (AGD, Gamma Phi) but not the "traditionally Southern" sororities would probably not fare the best here -- if even the strong Southern sororities have closed chapters recently at Ole Miss -- although there are always surprises. Some of the sororities that might otherwise do quite well here have just undertaken major expansions and probably don't have the resources to do another one so soon. And it sounds like the housing situation poses an additional problem not easily remedied -- and that comparable housing would be crucial to a group's survival.

I wouldn't be surprised if they vote to delay expansion for a few more years, no matter how much it is needed.

I'd have to agree with Sugar and Spice. Contrary to what was said early on, and even though we are increasing our base in the south, we are not strong in the south by any standards I would use. Now if you count all of our inactive southern chapters, you might have a case.

Sad, but true.......:(

And I'm nothing if not a realist.

By no means do I officially speak for Alpha Gamma Delta, but I can state with some confidence that our International Council would probably not be interested in expanding to Ole Miss in the near future.

Alpha Gam has a very conservative approach to extension, and--I think everyone agrees on this--Ole Miss would be a big gamble for any national fraternity. Huge undertaking in terms of finances, personnel and alumnae support.

I don't think Ole Miss will be expanding anytime in the next year or two.

Why is this? Will someone please explain why a group should not have been there in the past 20 years? Thank you. :)

In my opinion, a negative image lingers here more so than perhaps other places. Many alumni from Ole Miss and State graduate and then stay in the area -- many marry college sweethearts and have children...who will attend Ole Miss or State. Get the picture? Most PNMs want to join a group which is considered "successful" and Mommy & Daddy want her to join a group which is viewed as "successful!" It's just very tough to live down the negative perception about a group that had to leave campus.

Ok that makes sense. I thought that it might be a school rule or something.

Since I am an adviser here at Ole Miss and I attend all meetings and I'm friends with many other sorority advisors, I can say that expansion will not happen any time soon. Maybe in 10-15 years. But I just don't see it happening since there is no land near the other sorority houses.

Plus, it would have to be a sorority that is big in the south. I forgot about DZ. My friends were DZs at LSU and U of South. Miss (that chapter closed in the late 1990s). Anyway, I think for any sorority to expand in the south they have to be willing to put up at least a million dollars for a new house.....

Oh and the AOII colony at Miss State did close. They had girls but the numbers just weren't there. They had allocated enough money to build a new house since they were not able to purchase the Alpha Gamma Delta house for whatever reasons. I think that perhaps if the current interest group down there continues to grow, they might come back. However, Miss State is also very competitive and I think it is better to close then to have colonized and then have failed. This proved to me that AOII is still picky with their expansion and their expansion process. Perhaps, one day my chapter, Nu Beta, of AOII will not be the only AOII chapter in Mississippi.

sorry for misspelled words....I'm still recovering from late nights due to rush :)

I have sat here and read this thread from the beginning with my mouth hanging open. . .

Let me just comment that quota at Ole Miss is more than campus total at my school, we have 76 members in Chi O right now. The idea of that many new girls and that big of a chapter boggles my mind!!!!! :eek:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I didn't go to school in the Deep South. It would seem that the playing field is completely different from even, say, the Carolinas or Georgia. The chapters are huge, yet there aren't that many.

As I think about it, it's really easy for those of us who haven't worked in this situation to say that there needs to be another sorority at Ole Miss or Mississippi State. But, if the "hardcores" have tried and failed, maybe what we need to do is simply realize that the mindset is different; that New Member classes of 90+ are not outrageous, that chapters over 250 members are the norm.

Would I love to see my Alpha Delta Pi successful there? Of course! I bleed azure blue & white as much (or more than!) as other ADPis. But, if the current system isn't going to work for them, I'd rather see our efforts elsewhere.

Lastly (for now):
The most important thing is that a very high percentage of PNMs were placed - about 90% if I remember correctly. Now, if 900 women were signing up for Recruitment, and only 500-600 were being placed, then we should all be screaming Foul. Under the circumstances, though, I say congratulations to the hard working sisters & alumnae of Ole Miss and good luck with your New Members!

I know that we had a huge focus on our new Gamma Phi Beta colony at Texas A&M (we got 95 pledges I understand!) and now we are redirecting our energy & focus & money to the Univ of South Carolina. I doubt our International HQtrs would be interested in Ole Miss unless it was several years hence....

Why would they have to put up a million dollars upfront? Couldn't they just make arangements to rent one of the former houses that DZ, ZTA, ADP, AXD used to live in?