I agree with Miss Mocha, I would continue to support my bestfriend. I would be bothered by the fact that she hid something so important from me, but I would not push my religious beliefs on her. I would try not to judge her.

This would be a true test of friendship on both of your parts.

[This message has been edited by Talaxe (edited November 30, 2000).]

I have to agree with what has been said. I would hope that if we have been friends for 20 years, that I will still continue to be her friend regardless of her sexual orientation.



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Peace
KL

I would definitely support her. I don't think our friendship would change one ounce, unless, of course, she tried to convert me! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif But otherwise, we'd still be girls. I would be shocked as all get out, and if yall knew my bestfriend, so would yall!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif But we've been thru much worse, I'm sure we could wade the waters of homosexuality.

This has happened to me. Three of my friends are gay. I found out through an email that was not meant for me. We have been friends for six years and our friendship will never change because of this. They are still the same people as before and our friendship is true and I'm not going to let their sexual preference change our friendship and neither should you.

This happened to me a few years back. My initial reaction was one of disbelief and shock. I was angry, not because she was gay...but because we were friends for YEARS and she felt she couldn't confide in me about it. Why was I the last person to know?
(rhetorical question)
After the shock subsided, I decided I would go and meet this girlfriend she had suddenly acquired. (Which was something I was NOT prepared for, I had to get used to seeing my my friend, that I used to double date with, be intimate with someone of the same sex)Anyway, long story short...turns out it was a phase she was going through because afterwards she was never with another female again (at least I don't think so). She has now been in a heterosexual relationship for the past 6 years. So I guess she wasn't really gay, maybe bi....but not all out, 100% gay. My point: after the initial shock, I decided to except my friend for who she was (rather, who she thought she was.... Lawd,the child has always been confused http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Despite the fact, she was still the girl I used to play double dutch with, got in trouble with, the girl that had my back in fights, etc.

I have had this happen to me twice! One of my friends was afraid to lose my friendship if she told me so she held it back for 2 years. I started to suspect so when people started telling me rumors about her. I asked her about them and she kind of froze on me, and I knew then that they were true. I love my friends dearly and have only but a few because a good friend is hard to come by, although I have christian convictons against homosexuality, I also have madd love for her as well. Jesus says love the person, hate the sin. I have made it clear to her how I feel and I will be there to support her, but in the same token I cannot support her as to condone the behavior for I believe it is wrong. She understands, although I have chosen to separate myself from her lifestyle, we still talk and go out and chill like old times. I find myself even ministering to her on the regular though, either way I still consider her one of my best friends. People cal me a hypocrite for still associating with her, but I know that God has a plan for everyone's life, who am I to give up on someone who as helped me through some of the hardest times in my life.
It is a hard issue for me because it is very hard to give up on your friends.

[This message has been edited by Diva_56 (edited November 30, 2000).]

I had that similar incident happen to me a while ago. It was actually a family member who just happens to be my bestfriend also. She confided in me and at first I was shocked. Honestly I have very strong feelings about homosexuality. I come from a family where this behavior is STRICTLY forbidden, but I could not let that come between us. I accepted and told her I will love her just the same. Now as I have matured, my views have changed. She still is the same person, but her preference is different. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Sorors and friends:

What would you do if your friend of 10, 15, 20 years came to you and told you they:

-had sex outside marriage, with more than one person
-got pregnant, had a baby and didn't marry the father
-smoked weed
-told lies
-cheated on their homework or an exam
-stole
-judged other people, as if they were not being judged by our Creator;

See where I'm going with this, folks? I think it's highly self righteous to say "I have issues with her homosexuality, but she's still my friend." Hell, I have issues with unmarried mothers, especially those trying to pledge my sorority, but doesn't that sound super judgemental? And isn't sex outside of marriage a sin? Whose going to hell first? No wonder we Christians have the reputation of being judgemental, holier-than-thou types, cuz it's true!

And yes, I have had this situation happen, actually with a soror I made.

Yall done got my pressure up with this one...

I am with Discogoddess on this one. We are ALL doing things we aren't supposed to do. That doesn't mean that we can't be friends with one another. If you have a problem with homosexuality, then don't become a homosexual.

And honestly, I wish one of my friends WOULD try to preach to me about ANYTHING that I do.


[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

I'm with Discogoddess on this one, too. In God's eyes, no sin is any greater than the other...if you lust after someone, you might as well have fornicated, because it is all the same! And with that in mind, I have committed many sins, so it would not be for me to judge. I won't lie like I haven't made disparaging comments about homosexuals. But I can't condemn a person, because I'm a sinner, too. I don't know how long it would take me to digest the news, but I would eventually swallow my ignorance, and love her the same!

If my friend came to me and told me that she was a lesbian, I'd say...

1. MORE POWER TO YA!
2. WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT!
3. AND...NEXT DISCUSSION!

NOW, on my job, I have a co-worker (MALE) that I wish would just come out and SAY, HERE I AM! THIS IS WHAT I AM! LOL

LOL at Soror AKA2D, but I'm with you on that one.

I don't understand.

I have spiritual issues with my friends that have children by more than one daddy. I have issues with my friends drive drunk, have sex in front of their children, and take drugs in front of their children.

I am personally not trying to be judgemental, I'm just saying.

I'm sure that my friends have spiritual issues with some of the decisions I've made in life. THEY HAD BETTER NOT LOVE ME ANY LESS.

Isn't saying that you love your friend despite questionable decisions the very essence of friendship?

I don't think it's being judgemental, but hey, that's just my opinion.

Miss. Mocha

I have homosexual family members and close friends. When you think of the reasons as to why you are against it there is always a rational counter claim.

#1 It's a sin: So is half the stuff we do in our everyday life but no one is gonna really shame you.

#2 They're gonna try to convert me: Do you go around trying to make people heterosexual. I think not.

#3 They're going to make a pass at me: Let's get over ourselves. Just like heteros have a certain type of person they want so do they.

#4 They're promiscuous: And some heteros are not? Come on now.

Homosexuals are just like us but they only have a different sexual preference. If they are your friend, are they not going to be there for you because of their gayness? No if they are a friend they will be there regardless. It should not have any effect at all on your friendship

We all have issues that seem to get us on our soapbox. Just imagine all the people out there doing things we disapprove of behind closed doors! Its imposible to live in a perfect world, personally I would care less if my friend were gay, if thats what makes her happy I would be 110% supportive, because it is HER life. Now as far as everything else goes...its up to personal opinions.On a whole different angle: Soror Discogoddess what are your reservations about unwed mothers trying to pledge the sorority?

Soror, you may want to do a search (here or Greek life) from this past summer. I think "we" discussed this somewhat. I cannot remember the title of the thread, but I think this (unwed mothers submitting) was "discussed".

Everybody's entitled to their own opinions. I think I stated it very clearly in my post that it wasn't my friend's sexuality I had a problem with, it was the fact that she felt she couldn't tell me.
We ALL have got issues with one thing or another, whether it be with single mothers trying to join sororities, people who practice sex before marriage, folks who smoke weed, Grad vs. Undergrad....it's no different than having an issue with someone who is homosexual. It all falls into the same judgemental, self-righteous, holier than thou category that some of us would hate to think we're a part of. As long as we don't go around forcing our feelings and views on the people we have a problem with...then it's all good. Like I stated we all have opinions...and that's just what they are. None better, none worse than anyone else's.
As I read everyone's post over, I realized that most everyone, in a nut shell, said that they would still remain friends with the person , despite their sexuality...so where does the self-righteousness come into play?

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

I believe that I read in a previous post in this thread that someone was not able to condone their friend's behavior and that they were ministering to them. I assumed she meant ministering about homosexuality, but I may be wrong. I don't think it is appropriate to preach to your friends just because you don't approve of their sexual preferences. That to me seems to be self righteous. I'm all for offering advice, but preaching and advising are 2 different things.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

For me, the self-righteousness is that many of us sound condescending, like we in our perfection are deigning to still be friends with our gay loved ones, as if somehow we are better. Personally, I'm not sure I can agree that homosexuality is a sin on par with the ones I named in my earlier post, but my point there was to highlight the fact that we all fall short of the "rules" we (if we claim to be Christ-like) have come up to believe in. I think it sounds ridiculous.

For me, having an issue, or deciding to love my family/friends "in spite of" their "sin" of being gay is like a white friend saying they're going to love me "in spite of" my being an inferior black person, because to them, being black is someone a problem. My color and my sexuality are unchangeable, so I don't see how someone could or should judge me about them...so I wouldn't think about doing the same to someone else. People's behavior, now that's a different story!

Also, I don't think most gay people choose a life that seems destined for rejection, pain and sometimes, violence, in such a homophobic society.

Discogoddess,

I totally agree with you on this. I think all too often, Christians come off as judgemental, when there is only one Judge.

Another point: I know there are people out there who are "confused" or who "experiment," but people who are absolutely, positively gay did not "choose" to be that way, no more than I "chose" to be black or a woman or heterosexual. Therefore, I don't see how being gay can be a sin. People choose to steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, etc., all of which are sins. They DON'T choose to be gay!

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle

And saying "I have issues with unmarried mothers, especially those trying to join my sorority" DOES NOT sound condescending? I've had this same conversation with my friend hundreds of times. I find that some people like to put degrees on what they believe is wrong and right...I call it the "Pick and Choose" Syndrome. It's where, let's say, you can condemn a woman who sleeps around...or someone that has premarital sex....(Because you don't do it). BUT...you smoke weed or you drink all night and get up and go to church a few hours later. The latter, however, is not seen as being on the same degree as the former...because you know that's what YOU do. And if you doing it, it can't be all that bad. And what I'm saying is unless God came down and affirmed that we are, infact, holier than thou.....we can not go around picking and choosing what is immoral and what isn't (i.e. I'm against unwed mothers joining my sorority, but...I think it's wrong for people to have ill feelings against homosexuality) I feel if you're going to be an advocate for one, do the same for the other...that is if you're truly all for not judging others.
Listen, I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect...but NONE of us are. A lot of our feelings come from personal experiences. if you have a best friend, sister, etc. who is gay...then, of course, you're going to get upset if someone speaks out against homosexuality. If that same sister or best friend had a baby out of wedlock and later down the line wanted to pledge a sorority...and someone tried to down them....you'd be mad as heck. We all can stand to learn a lesson in accepting EVERYONEequally for who they are regardless of their sexual preference or the circumstances of how their kids came into the world.
As far as the comment on not comparing people who lie, cheat, have premarital sex, etc. to those people who are gay (because they can't help being gay...it's how God made them)....I'm not trying to even get into that subject. I, personally, don't have a problem with anyone gay, straight, whore or otherwise....I'm too busy worrying about myself to try and go around pondering what's right and wrong in other people's lives. I leave that to the all the Socrates of the world.


[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

DISCOGODDESS and MIDWESTDIVA: what is wrong with people having standards and convictions? Why condemn people for their religious beliefs. I saw no replies here that wanted to burn homosexuals at the stake or condemn them to hell. For those that support their friends deviant sexuality and actually cheer it on ("more power to you" and the like), would you cheer on their alcoholism, promiscuity, thievery? The answer would be a resounding no. Why not? Because you have standards, thats why. My cousin, who was my best friend as a teenager shocked everyone, me biggest of all, when he came out. One day he was a regular guy ( a former Marine and cop), with a girlfriend, next day, he is dressed in pink short shorts, pink legwarmers, and pink hi-top Converse sneaks (really). I felt betrayed and confused. I don't condemn him. He is still a good guy who loves his family and is still my blood, but his lifestyle is no longer conducive to a good relationship between us. Am I homphobic? No. I hate no one (except Uncle Toms, perps and traitors)That lifestyle is wrong to me. But that is my personal belief, based on concrete standards of what MANHOOD is and represents. I still love him and he is welcome at my home (without his hairdresser friends and gay nightclub buddies). recently he has swung back to having a girlfriend and eliminated the flamboyant behavior. Bottom line is anyone has a right to the lifestyle that makes them happy, but others don't have to accept it (even friends). I have given up life long friendships with drug dealers, thieves, and crack addicts. Am I wrong for having standards with their behavior. I have not invoked God, Christianity, or sin, just personal standards. Peace and Greek love

Hello Doggystyle82,

It is nice to see that you're back in the swing of things. Now on to your post. There is nothing wrong with people having standards and convictions. I have them too. But you will never hear me say "Yeah, we're friends, even though she's a lesbian, or even though she has 3 kids with 3 different baby daddys, or even though she likes to "swing" (if you know what I mean). My point is that my friend's bedroom business is none of my business.

I'm not saying that it is never appropriate to end a friendship. There are times when it is necessary to do so. If I had drug dealers or thieves as friends, I think I would get new friends. Not only because I don't approve of drug dealing and thievery, but because the potential exists that I would suffer right along with them as a result of their lawbreaking (guilt by association). I don't think that is being self righteous. I think that is just being sensible.

I don't personally think that I am being self-righteous because I know that Jesus told me that "There is not one righteous, no not one." Just because I have a issue with homosexuality does not mean I am not entitled to my opinion or how I judge others. I will not judge people HYPOCRITICALLY, which Jesus was refering to when he made the statement... "Judge not there fore you not be judged" (Paraphrasing of course) I have to judge things on every level of my life, like when to cross the street or what shoes I buy, but I cannot judge on things that I am doing MYSELF... or what I don't expect others to question me on as far as my character...this is what is meant by Jesus' statement. We all cannot pick and choose which laws to live by because with God we must live by them ALL according to his word. And being a christian I read His word and find Him condeming the homosexuality lifestyle, not the person. This is what I will do for Ms. K (You know who you are hon http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif) and for anyone else...


just some truth from the DIVA.

Hmm. If my friend was a lesbian I'd just shrug and say "I know," because my gaydar is pretty good.

But on the real, I have a few lesbian friends and after hearing some of the things that they go through I have come to the conclusion that they don't really wake up one morning and decide to be gay. I could talk all day about some of the things I have been told, but that is another story. If my friend waited so long to tell me (or I was just not paying attention) I would assume it was because she was she was worried. These things come with enough consequences. I would never make the loss of my friendship one of them.

As far as the unwed mothers issue. I like to say that alot of women have sex, a few women got proof.

That's all I have to say about that.

Based on posts in this thread and others (ie RU-486 where I was condemned to hell by this person) I have come to the conclusion that Ms. BoogiedownB (you know who you are sweetie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif) is a self righteous individual. I am entitled to my opinion. Don't get your panties all in a bunch. The two DIVAS will just have to agree to disagree on religious subject matter.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 30, 2000).]

LOL

*lol*

Well, it is!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:
[b]And saying "I have issues with unmarried mothers, especially those trying to join my sorority" DOES NOT sound condescending? I've had this same conversation with my friend hundreds of times. I find that some people like to put degrees on what they believe is wrong and right...I call it the "Pick and Choose" Syndrome. It's where, let's say, you can condemn a woman who sleeps around...or someone that has premarital sex....(Because you don't do it). BUT...you smoke weed or you drink all night and get up and go to church a few hours later. The latter, however, is not seen as being on the same degree as the former...because you know that's what YOU do.
Very good point, I will try to not to add fuel to the topic of unwed mothers but I truly can't see how that is an indication of the work one will do or the type of soror one will be for Alpha Kappa Alpha!

What would you do if your friend.....
 

Sorors and others,

What would you do if your best friend of 10, 15, 20 years told you that she was a lesbian? This happened to me. I will tell you what I did after I read some of your responses.

Conskeeted19

You are the master of your own destiny!

Ofcourse, I have spiritual issues with homosexuality, but I digress.

I would hope that I would continue to judge my bestfriend on the content of her character and not her sexual preference.

I would continue to be her bestfriend, and love her. I don't know if I could support her sexuality, but I would certainly support her as a person and a friend.

Miss. Mocha

[This message has been edited by Miss. Mocha (edited November 30, 2000).]

Wow, I see that I've really started something. I agree and disagree with several of your responses, but I won't get into any particulars.

When my friend told me that she was a lesbian, I could not believe it. At first I was angry because I thought that there was nothing that we could not share with each other. She asked me if I hated her. I held her and told her that I could never hate her. I told her that no matter what road she chooses to take I will always respect, honor and cherish our relationship. She did not ask at that time how I felt about it; therefore, I did not say. At a later date she asked for my opinion about the issue. I told her that I believe that it is wrong. Just like my relationship with XXXXXXX is wrong. No one sin is greater than the other in Gods eyesight. We give sin degrees-not God.

Doggystyle82 I must say that I agree with you as for as controlling my space. I did not want any kind of relationship with her friend and she respected that. Just like I will not let my cousin's drug dealing prostitute pimping boyfriend step one foot in my house. Just like I will not step in the mall or even the 7 eleven store with my theiven sista friend from school.

My friend is a wonderful friend and I love her dearly.

Ok, let me get this straight...

You are relating being around gays to being around, pimps, theives, drug dealers? Don't you think that's a bit harsh?

Wow you guys, I've been missing for a few days and look at what I missed out on! I agree with many of the post as well as disagree with a few, but that's the beauty of this, we can all agree to disagree.

First of all my reaction would be just as AKA2d91's was....More power to ya...ect. If that's my girl, then that's my girl no matter what. We would have to talk about whay she felt she had to hide such a thing from me, but her choices her exactly that..HER CHOICES. Who am I to judge her when I know I'm not at all perfect. That's where my agreement comes in with a PORTION of Discogoddess' posts. We can't begin to judge people. Sin is sin.If everyone took a minute to look real close inside ourselves there would be too many skeleton bones in our closets to count.

As far as issues go, we all have them, just as we all get a little Holier-Than-Thou. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I just take it as opinions. We have have our rights to them, but the only true opinion that counts is God's as far as how you choose to live your life.

There were so many posts as well as so many more things I want to address, but I'll chill for now http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif I've typed too much all ready.

Soror Sexy Mocha:

All I ask is that if you are going to quote me as part of your post, please quote my entire passage, just so people understand what I was saying, which was that judging one's friends and/or potential sorority members on the things we pick and choose from the Bible is self-serving (yes, I have flaws, I admit that, and the unwed mother thing is one of them-people can reread my earlier posts on that to get their panties/briefs in a bunch):

Poplife,

You got it straight! No, I don't think that it is harsh.

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You are the master of your own destiny!

Soror Conskeeted19:

So much for Christian love and understanding, which we all want applied to us, but no one else, huh?

WHEN DOES IT END?????????????


[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited December 01, 2000).]

I'm not Christian, but I'm truly feeling you on that statement Discogoddess.

Sheez.

Soror Discogoddess,

It has nothing to do with love or hate. It's a matter of preference. I have friends who are dating men that I don't care to be around. I have family members whom I don't keep company with. Am I cordial? Yes. Do I hate them? Certainly not. I choose who I keep company with. As a matter of fact she did not want to be around the man that I was seeing at the time. That was her preference and I respected her feelings. Just because she is my friend does not mean I have to be apart of her choice. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that I would be mean or anything like that. I just prefer not to be bossom buddies. "It's like that and that's the way it is."

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You are the master of your own destiny!

Soror DiscoGoddess,
I'm trying to understand where you're coming from...but I'm having a hard time doing so. Nonetheless, I respect your opinion and viewpoints.
I think it's a sad point we've reached, when we're condemning single mothers, yet rallying to the support of homosexuals. The thing with me is I don't pick and choose. I either have to accept ALL people reagardless of their lifestyles or None. I choose not to down anyone because I'm no better than anyone.