ABCNews.com Asking for Feedback About Hazing
 

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Li..._mailform.html


How Do You Feel About Hazing?
ABCNEWS.com Wants to Hear From You

Sept. 29— The recent allegations that members of a high school football team sexually abused several younger players has brought hazing back into the headlines.

Were you ever hazed when you joined a sports team or a college fraternity or sorority? Did you agree to go through the experience and, if so, why? Did you feel that it helped create a stronger bond between you and the other members of the group? Or did you feel forced into it?

Did you ever participate in hazing when you were part of a team or perhaps a fraternity or sorority? What do you think leads someone to take part in hazing?

If you are interested in speaking with ABCNEWS.com, please email us. We want to hear how Americans feel about the hazing phenomenon. Please provide an evening and daytime phone number and/or e-mail address so that someone from ABCNEWS.com can contact you if we decide we would like to talk to you further about your thoughts.

If we use just your e-mailed comments in our coverage on ABCNEWS.com, we will not contact you.


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There is an e-mail feedback form at the bottom of the link if you're interested in contacting them. Hopefully this investigation will not specifically attack greeks!

My Dollars worth is sent!!!!!!!!!:)

Hope they come and interview me!:D

How awesome would that be, if you were just watching ABC and all of a sudden Tom Earp was on the news.

Seeeriously.

Tom, if they interview you, you'll have to let us know so we can all watch! (Hopefully they could interpret your e-mail enough to figure out how to contact you, LOL!)

the "hazing phenomenon"? OOOOO-k :rolleyes:

I think that with sports it is something that has probably happened for a long time, it just never made headlines. I don't know how all of a sudden it became a trend or "phenomenon" :confused:

I think that would be awesome if Tom Earp was on the news!

I'd like to see if Tom speaks like his e-mails!

Maybe ABC will contract someone from GC to write the subtitles???

Just kiddin' ya, Tom. Ya know we luv ya!

Adrienne
:D

Tom, if you get interviewed, I will give you $1 if you do the running man on air.

I fed 'em
 

TO: ABC News

For 40 years, I've written and talked about hazing in fraternities.

When I was a fraternity member at Indiana in the early '60s, the hazing and "Hell Week" was everywhere, but private - often concealed by a "Help Week" community service project.

Now, changing attitudes and insurance rates have forced national fraternities to severely clamp down on hazing - usually the chapter is suspended immediately if there is any hazing discovered.

Another important thing is that the nine "black" fraternities and sororities are the biggest hazers, without question. It seems like you cannot join a black fraternity without severe and repeated paddling. Although these groups have little in common with the 90 or 100 "traditional" national Greek Letter Organizations, their hazing is spread over all of us. For example, when the two girls died/drowned in California last year while seeking membership in a 'black' sorority, which apparently didn't have a charter and wasn't affiliated with the school, it was widely publicized as "two more campus hazing deaths." It was really just two murders near a campus.

Another important thing: I'm sure you have the Alfred Univ. study of Athletic Hazing. The definition of hazing in that phony study included "forced to return to campus before classes start." This means every football player, cheerleader, soccer player (male or female), and other fall sports participant (and even the marching band members) was "hazed" by Alfred's definition, and this distorts the entire study.

Another concern is the double standard. This fall there have been reports of hazing at the Michigan State women's soccer team, Maryland (M &F) lacrosse, Nebraska football, and Texas A&M band and spirit club. In all of these cases, the participants/teams/coaches got slaps on the wrist. In the worst case, at Maryland, the hazers got suspended from games, but the suspensions end before the season starts. Athletics can haze with little fear, but even minor fraternity/sorority hazing is a death knell for a chapter. That's a classic double standard.

Good luck with your efforts.

well said

Re: I fed 'em
 

Wha-wha-WHAT??? :eek:

What is the basis of this statement?

Re: I fed 'em
 

This sort of us versus them attitude is needless. I don't know what org you're in, but unless you have SPECIFIC EVIDENCE of ANY group hazing, it is reckless slander to say that they haze.

Under a broad enough definition, all Greeks haze. We all can agree that last year's AKA drowning death in Southern Cal was a tragedy. But it was tragic due to the loss of life, not because of the org they were interested in, or the color of their skin.

Careful hoosier, your bias is showing.

Thank you for once again showing your TRUE colors and using a TRAGEDY to somehow demean an entire community and a group of organizations of which you obviously know NOTHING, and that have done everything in their power to end this.

Before we jump all over Hoosier, I'd like to note that usually Hoosier's posts are pretty fair.

We don't know Hoosier's background or how much information Hoosier has about any specific group. Additionally, I for one would be pretty upset if Hoosier brough up specific instances of a certain group hazing. Talk about bad press.

Have you seen some of his posts before they are deleted? I know all about this individual that I need to know.

I guess not -- didn't realize there were some that HAD been deleted.

While you may not like the image, that's the image that a lot of people have about minority fraternities and sororities. Yes we may not know them at all but that is the image that we all have in our heads.

It doesn't help when you have people in these fraternities talking about how rough it is and how others might not make it. It doesn't help when you see kids branded and while they may not have been forced to get it and think it's cool, you once again associate it with pain immediately in your head. Even my friends in one asian fraternity would tell me that you have to treat it like the military. That just didn't sit well with ME.

Also I know on GC, it just sorta feels like as soon as any news comes out about this, it disappears from the general threads because Amycat is friends with some people that don't want those threads on there. I'm not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, but this creates this further image of people trying to hide something (not saying you are).

At the end of the day you'll tell me I know nothing about your org. That's fine. I don't. I'm just saying what the image a lot of people might have of those orgs. I personally have it with the fraternities. The sororities i see as being older women in phd's only because those were the only ones at MY school. You also don't have to care what anyone else's image is but if that's the case, don't flip out if they state what their impression is.

-Rudey
--That is all. I haven't been mean, so please don't take this as an opportunity to come at me.

Hoosier is FAIR? I am lol at what UNfair must be then.

And clearly Hoosier has never been to FLORIDA where the hazing is equally rampant among all orgs regardless of racial makeup. BUT WAY TO OVERGENERALIZE THERE.

wooo! ok! I take it back! uncle!

I only come at you when you act like an ass, because you deserve it.

I can't help it when other people have a wrong impression. To some degree I agree with SOME criticisms. But when they are uninformed AND have more to do with prejudice against a race of people than the NPHC, as in Hoosier's case, I will indeed comment.

Otherwise I will generally ignore them. I have done my time educating folks about black people and the NPHC. I am too through with all of that. If people want to pass some kind of judgement then that is their deal and nothing I say on the internet is going to change that. I learned that from lots of GC experience.

i take exception to libra's comment that "all orgs. in florida haze".
i live in florida, was initiated in florida and work with some collegiate chapters and can truthfully say that i have not seen any hazing with these chapters. but then, that is the trouble when we generalize. lisa

Okay I am assuming that FSU means Florida State which happens to be my alma mater. MY generalization was actually somewhat sardonic. I was trying to show Hoosier's fallacious logic by doing it from the other perspective (it somehow becomes more clear if it is something you disagree with...odd).

Now, that being said, let us be honest. We both go or have gone to FSU. Are you saying there is no hazing among the Greek orgs there, be it white or black?

I'm going to agree with this. I think we can all admit that NPHC organizations do have a problem with hazing, and Rudey's point that there are some members out there perpetuating the "if you didn't get hazed, you're not worthy" mindset is true. But to pretend that this is a problem and an attitude unique to NPHC organizations? Give me a break. From my experience, it is just as prevalent among many NIC fraternities (and to a lesser extent the NPC sororities). If you search through this forum, I'd guess that far and away the NIC fraternity hazing incidents outnumber the NPHC ones. At least the visible incidents, that is -- but that's another issue entirely.

Come on, you guys, let's not act so high and mighty. No matter what organization you're associated with -- NPC, NIC, NPHC, NALFO -- there are chapters of your group that haze. No matter what your HQ's policy says. Let's not try to shove this problem off on one group like it's only their issue to deal with. We as Greeks are all susceptible to hazing, and we all need to work on finding solutions.

yes libra, fsu stands for florida state. and i can truthfully say that
my chapter does not haze. it is the only organization that i have personal knowledge of. and i have never seen any hazing at our chapter at uf, miami or fl. southern. we have other chapters in the state, but i am not familiar with them. if the majority of npc sororities still haze,i would be very surprised. the consequences are too risky if their nationals found out. we can refer to the post about the wake forest u. sorority hazing for that. of course there are exceptions to every rule. and by the way, go noles!!! lisa

*chapters at uf, miami and fl. southern

Well I didn't mean your organization specifically. I was speaking in more general terms.

(sugar and spice actually said exactly what I wanted to in a far more eloquent fashion).

P.S. Tally ho will be so hyped next Saturday when we beat Miami.

I know of no deletions
 

"Have you seen some of his posts before they are deleted?"

Outside of one stupid attempt at humor in Greek Letters, I know of no post of mine which has been deleted.

It is a true perception, I think, that the black (especially male) fraternities are frequent hazers. For the small number of chapters, and their general small size, they generate a lot of bad publicity.

If you look at the most recently posted bad publicity, the Wal-Mart's sock stealing girls are named Jamila and Renita. I think I know that they are from a black Greek group, although the name was never mentioned.

The consequences of black GLO hazing are frequently hidden too. If XYZ has 12 members at the U of OOO and they meet at some member's apartment, the dean can suspend them and few will notice. If ATO has 80 members and 20 pledges and a big house across from the Student Center, and they are suspended, pretty soon everybody knows and sees the empty house.

Here on GC, a "third rail" has been laid - and if you touch the third rail you will get dissed or worse by lovelyivy, librasoul, and their ilk. The third rail is race. What a shame.

PS: I have been to almost every campus in FL.

Re: I fed 'em
 

Um,

Texas A&M has no "spirit club"

please be more specific. And i will attest that hazing does occur in the Band and in the Corps of Cadets, but most often it is swept under the rug by the administration. Mostly because the admin is composed of former cadets. Due to that, and A&M's anti-greek atmosphere, Greek incidents are blown out of proportion while Corps incidents ususally dont' see the light of day.

Kitso
KS 361 times that an A&M "spirit club" is news to me

Re: Re: I fed 'em
 

Under a broad enough definition maybe 10 years ago? Because I can surely tell you that the organizations at University of Michigan-Dearborn (at least the Greeks) DO NOT haze.

Altho sometimes I wish we did... like interviews and stuff. My pledge period was boring and I never became close with my Phi sisters or the actives during that time.

Re: I know of no deletions
 

Hoosier, you get attacked regularly on several different issues. Race is hardly the only thing people have issues with you about, but if you feel that's your biggest problem I can only agree. When it comes to the topic of race, you do have a problem. Congratulations on acknowledging it.

GC is actually a perfect example of why talking at people about stereotypes and prejudice changes nothing. You see the BGLO forums here. Many of you post there from time to time. You see us, chat with us, and pretend to be cool but in the END your assumptions about our organizations are not changed. You know us as individuals, but you still only see the big stereotype.

That's why I don't bother. I am here to hang and chat about lighthearted topics. Not politics and definitely not race. You only got a response from me on this AT ALL because you are attacking my organization.

SO let me state this and end my involvement in this thread:

Hoosier-
You know nothing about BGLOs.
You know nothing about Alpha Kappa Alpha's anti-hazing policies or what steps the organization took to prevent something like the tragedy that you are using to justify your ridiculous misconceptions.
You're not interesting in learning about either, but you sure do love judging.
To be fair, you love to judge everyone and that seems to be your major function on GC. Once again, congratulations. I hope that it keeps you warm at night.

Edited for spelling

lovelyivy84, well said.

This is a war of rhetoric because we lack statistics. We can argue impressions all day.

Here, Here!!!!
Boo to knee-jerk statements! hoosier, if you could produce any statistics on hazing, maybe we'd listen to you.

I'm definitely about to come at you, but not in a mean way. Ok, first of all, are you saying that we have to be accepting of people's impressions at all times? Because the bottom line is you needn't talk about what you don't know about. Until you (Hoosier) have your hands on our DOCUMENTS you DON'T know anything about what you are talking about. And I don't care if someone told you something or not. What, now everyone's word is bond? Everyone speaketh the truth? So if you have an uninformed opinion, I have to accept that? Because we can talk about images all day long. Because I can spit images of traditionally White GLOs all day long, and I'm willing to bet my next paycheck you wouldn't like half of them. All an image is is a STEREOTYPE. And I don't have to accept that crap at all. And if I want to flip out over it, that's MY choice. Whether or not I care about the image is really inconsequential if it is perpetuating a stereotype that affects not only me but my organization and my community at large. So have a little respect and keep your uninformed opinions and stereotypical images to yourself. Otherwise, it's about to be open season up in here. I hardly ever respond to topics like these, but I'm ready now. So if you ready (Hoosier), bring it. We can go tit for tat. You up for it? And I'm not talking about your opinions anymore, I'm talking concrete FACTS and STATISTICS.

Re: I know of no deletions
 

Actually I remember last reading about a "white" fraternity, Sigma Chi, on the University of Michigan campus hazing their pledges to the point of sending them to the hospital. But I guess stealing some socks from Wal-Mart is a greater offense than people's lives in jeopardy... :rolleyes:

About the "third rail"... You and I both know that you post things to stir up people on GC. Did you HONESTLY believe that people were going to stay silent when you blame all greek problems on black organizations? What if a black fraternity member posted something saying... "Why do all greeks get blamed for drinking all the time, raping sorority girls, and party everyday? Don't people know that it is the "white" greeks that do those things, not us, the respectable service organizations? I see white greeks all the time in front of their houses drinking all day long. I once knew a guy in a white frat who even boasted about all the women who he raped. He laughed about it because he knew that the women would never be able to prove that it was rape. Service organizations would never do those things...." I'm sure IFC/NPC would totally agree with that....
:rolleyes:

I sometimes don't know if I should respond to his post. I know he is not going to respond.... BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Re: I fed 'em
 

Is that any worse than the two San Diego TKE pledges that were killed while pledging an active chapter even though the chapter was suspended by the university in 2000 for hazing?



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...914&highlight= +and+sdsu#post155914

Re: Re: I fed 'em
 

Madmax... I thought that you knew that stealing socks from Wal-Mart is much worse:rolleyes:

What if he were right?

What if in a comparison of male NIC fraternities versus male NPHC fraternities it was found that NIC groups had many more reported hazing violations but that male NPHC (as well as multi-cultural and latin) groups had more violent hazing reports with a greater tendency to physical injury.

What would that statistic mean?

And that shouldn't be that hard to track actually.

Edited to add a parenthetical phrase.

I would like to see ONE article that stated cited a multicultural sorority or fraternity for hazing....

The reality is that some chapters of GLOs haze. I don't think that it is unique to or more prevalent in one conference, NPHC in this case, as some have posted. I think that all conferences and GLOs have programs to help eliminate hazing. Unfortunately, there are still hazing incidents all over the country that do not get reported unless someone is injured, killed, or arrested. A poll can help get more accurate information. ABC News wants this information not to help eliminate hazing, but to have a story. I don't even think that this story is specific to greeks in general. I think that contacting ABC News is a bad idea. Allow your Headquarters to do so.

Recently in NY, the news has been covering a terrible hazing incident involving a High School football team from Long Island. They were at football camp where the older members allegedly sodomized their younger teammates with foreign objects such as broomsticks and pinecones. (What on earth went through these teenagers' minds to make them think that forced sodomy is how to build a stronger football team?) My point is I wouldn't be surprised if this had been going on for years at this, as well as other schools, just like Powder Puff a few months ago. It took an injury that required medical attention for people to know what happened to these football players.

So, if you hijack a thread back to the original topic, is that a hijack?

That's what I want to do for a moment.

As a Greek, there is no way in the world that I would comment to ABC -- or any other journalistic organization on this topic.

This is something that should be handled by our national/international officers.

I now return you to your original hijack.