Thoughts/Views On Sorority Recruitment Processes
 

First, lets please be decent with this thread. Pleaaaassseee :D
Ok, I thought that maybe this topic should get a thread of its own and not invade another persons rush thread, since it seems to be an interesting/heated topic. As before please use discretion if saying and schools or chapters of orgs.

My thoughts as someone who attended U of Mich and its system since UM's rush kind of started this topic.

Even though UM is not necessarily a big Greek school I would say that we have a pretty "cut-throat" rush. I am not familiar with the "new" system but hears my thoughts about the new and old.

Old System Complaints:
Many girl's still didn't get bids to the houses they wanted, and many girls didn't get bids period. Problem with the old system is that generally the same houses ALWAYS made quota (examples are Tri-Delt, Theta, Kappa, DG and Chi-O always being up there) and sometimes over. And left other houses and not even necessarily the weaker ones somewhere near quota or not makng it period. That's 5/15-16 houses. So somethings not necessarily right. I don't fully blame the system cuz lets be honest campus rep plays a part in girls wanting these houses. And honestly these are normally the target houses during recruitment for PMN's.
New System Complaints:
Many girls still not getting bids to houses that they want or not getting one period. It's hurting the houses that always make quota, giving them less members and trying to help other houses catch up. That's the only real complaint I have heard so far about this system.
But both systems have their positives and negatives.

Soapbox for a sec....

The whole point of Recruitment is so that girls can find a place where they feel they belong. This can all be done without competition. Its seems like any Panhellenic spirit goes out the window when it comes to Recruitment. While yes, its great to see numbers, it seems that the whole concept of quality girls has flown ot the window. IMO the complaints of the new system sound egotistical and selfish. Are we really getting upset because people are trying to make it fair for all the houses? And I'm not saying this because I come from one of the smaller houses at UM. Not long ago my chapter was one the top tier houses making quota and over. Just goes to show that, excuse my lang, s@#! happens and it can happen to any chapter at anytime. I just personally prefer quality. I'd be content with a chapter of 15 quality girls that are making the experience worthwhile, then a chapter of 120 not knowing each other and/or not getting along.

Off the soapbox and out of fantasy land.

Anywho, I think the new system could solve a lot of the problems that some of the stronger houses at UM have (Not even saying its the ones I named because others have it too). For instance as I said before generally the same houses always make quota. However, some take it more girls they can handle, which causes a housing problem. Too many girls not enough rooms and many girls de-activate for that reason. You have a lot of house at UM that have nothing but lots of small triples and quads. The new system lowers quota therefore possibly eliminating housing problems and possible high de-actos which many of the stronger houses have in general.
Its also going to be impossible for every house to make quota with the old system when you have 16 houses on campus and XYZ number of girls going through. With the new system every house still might not make quota but it may be evened out a little more.
One person suggested a IFC kind of rush where the girls pick their houses. IMO at smaller schools with fewer houses this works (I have a friend who's schools sorority system does an IFC kind of rush), but I think at larger schools it would be complete chaos. I think that many of the PMN's would all target the same houses and you would have a bigger percentage of chapters at schools going under.

Is it possible for the first two rounds to be one where, like normal, all the girls are required to attend every house for like 25 mins. Just to see all the options and giving every house a chance to show what they can do. Then the next rounds the girl can go back to where THEY want to go, still letting the houses select from these girls. Also make it less formal. Still have the cheering and skits but make it more relaxed. I know that at U of Mich in talking to many friends from other houses we all felt that recruitment was a shallow show. And that no house truely presents themselves because you're so worried about putting on the perfect show.

Please express any suggestions, flaws, add-ons, opinions, views and thoughts. Who knows maybe we can come up with something :)

Remember the previous was about experiences at my school ;)
ETA: Excuse for the scattered thoughts at 2 am but I didnt want to forget to write this

Re: Thoughts/Views On Sorority Recruitment Processes
 

I don't have much time to write b/c I have to get ready for school..... but NPC had some sort of pilot program similar to this. Everyone had to go to every house the first round, but then after that the girls got to pick where they wanted to go. Houses had 2 hour parties, some overlapped. A girl could *theoretically* go where she pleased. The only cut was pref invites.

THIS DID NOT WORK. The girls would go to the bigger houses and stay there. Those houses would either get totally overwhelmed or be loving it. Many would make it extremelly uncomfortable for a rushee to get up and leave (they had to leave on their own volition, at least before the party was over). So even if they did want to see some of the less popular houses, they were "detained" at some of the bigger houses.

This is the kind of rush I went through (we were the NPC guinea pig)- and it sucked! Fire1977 can probably tell you more about this system, she was there for it more than I was, as shortly after I joined they switched it back to formal. I can speak firsthand about how hard it was to leave some of the houses, and how many girls didn't give other houses a certain look. IMO it was much worse that formal rush. With formal rush they know earlier on what their chances are at certain houses. With the system I rushed in, they fell in love with the 3 Super Sororities, then were crushed when they didn't get a pref invite, and didn't get pref invites anywhere else b/c they didn't bother to visit anywhere else.
Since we've switched back to formal rush,(and more active COBing but that's another thread), house numbers have begun to even out and there are more houses that are strong.

I know this isn't totally on-point with your post, but forgive me, it's early and I gotta get to school!

My school did something that seems not unlike what you're describing.

First, you went to each sorority for 10 minutes. This was followed by open houses, where that evening and the next day, you could go in and out of each sorority's rush room as you pleased. Then sororities would make their first round of cuts, generally cutting anyone who didn't make grades or who didn't stop by during open houses.

Next was "informal rush" - a few hours in the evening and the next day, where you could visit any sorority that had invited you back, pretty much for as long as you pleased (there were caps on time but they were pretty generous). You then attended a theme party with each sorority that had invited you. Sororities would then invite whoever they wanted to pref, which was the following evening.

From the PNM side, you could very easily mess things up. Each sorority only had 10 minutes to make a first impression, so you had one convo, and if you happened to be paired with someone you didn't click with - you might decide not to go back during open houses, and you might miss out on what would have been a good match. You also had to be proactive if you wanted to get to all the sororities during open houses - you had to stand up and say "I want to check out my other options" and worry that you came across as rude or whatever. (It was forbidden for a sorority to prevent you from leaving.) And sometimes PNMs would spend the entire open house period with one sorority, essentially "suiciding" right at the start of rush, then if that sorority didn't invite them back, they were SOL.

From the sorority side, I was a member of the smallest (by far) sorority at my school. When PNMs came through tours, we had to use the time to do a skit rather than convos, because it would have been about 3 PNMs to each sister. PNMs saw the small number of sisters, got worried, and ran scared. It might have been beneficial if the PNMs were "forced" to give us a second chance - often, those who did come back to open houses, and who were otherwise good fits, wound up joining - we were listed first on a lot of pref cards. :)

The whole point of Recruitment is so that girls can find a place where they feel they belong.

Actually, it's a MUTUAL selection process. We pick them -- they pick us.

Re: Re: Thoughts/Views On Sorority Recruitment Processes
 

This is what my rush was like. However, first round (meet the greeks) was longer - I think 20 minutes - and there was NO overlap with the theme parties. This was done in the fall - at the time first semester freshmen couldn't pledge, so it was mostly sophomores who had a good idea what they wanted. I would not recommend this with first semester freshmen.

Honestly, I think a lot of problems in rush could be solved if we would really practice what we have been preaching and destigmatize COB. Some houses just don't do well with formal rush. I think having pull out all the stops formal one semester and totally unscheduled COB the next semester just aggravates things more. Formal and COB should each be a little more like each other.

p.s. - where is there an explanation of the "new system" at UM? From what I am reading, it sounds like the new system is actually following the Green Book.

Formal Recruitment (Rush) has always been the most efficient way to get new members. Think about it...the chapter goes all out for 1-2 weeks -- the PNMs line up at our doorstep -- and at the end of the process we have our new member class. The rest of the year we can focus on Sisterhood, community service, academics, social, campus activities, etc. A chapter that is constantly in recruitment mode is not able to focus on the other important aspects of why you wanted to be in a sorority to begin with.

I don't think that monthly open rush parties mean you are always in rush mode - it means you are reaching out to the women for whom formal rush did not work or was not an option. It's more to keep women interested - you don't have to pledge them that minute.

If you are talking 6 pledge classes a year, then yes, I agree with your point.

However, if we limit ourselves to formal rush, we will slowly dwindle away to nothing at less traditional schools.

I'm not saying we limit ourselves only to formal rush -- I'm just saying let's recognize that it's an efficient system and be careful before we tweak (I had to look up that spelling! LOL) it too much.

This I know, my point was about it being about quality. :)

I'm all for quality -- a quota new member class of quality women.

At smaller schools with not much interest in Greek life, however, that's not always possible. I would sooner be short a few of quota than take women who are going to be a blight on the whole chapter just to get quota and a pat on the head from my national rush chair.

That is what is wonderful about open rush and COB - it's another way to reach women who might be turned off by the process of formal rush, but like the idea of being in a sorority.

A quota class of quality women is possible at any size school, since quota is determined by the number of PNMs divided by the number of sororities. Not achieving quota means you went to the bottom of your list. Sure, you can pledge quality women through COB -- that's fine. For me, I'd rather get them in formal rush & spend the rest of the year focusing on sisterhood, academics, social, etc.

Only at schools where girls know they want to rush. My school had formal rush for about 10 years while there were still two NPCs. Quota was usually TWO. Then after formal each house except for the weaker NPC would COB 8 or 9 more girls. Having now eliminated formal after losing the weaker NPC, houses consistently get 8 girls in fall and 5 girls in spring. Not every school is like Wisconsin or Alabama or UCLA where girls want to rush. I still think you can have a very quality sisterhood experience while COBing throughout the year. That way you know you who has a real sisterhood, and who just fakes it for two weeks to impress freshmen.

NutBrn, I agree with this point, but maybe you went to a school where 500 women signed up to go through the recruitment process. At smaller, less "greek inclined" schools, we have about 100 women, and 10 sororities. Trust me, I'd like to see fewer sororities and more PNMs but that's besides the point. Women do NOT line up outside our doors, any of the sororities, to join. Even the most popular house COBs and rarely is anyone ever at total.

I believe in the Panhellenic system of recruitment. I think it works for most schools. I also don't think that PNMs should be allowed to skip parties or not see all of the sororities, because hey, let's be fair and such. The rules are, you go to all houses first round, seven second round, 3 for prefs (at my school). If you miss a party, and you're not excused, you're out.

If you don't like the Panhellenic system as a PNM, then don't go through it, and use informal recruitment. Your choices may be limited, but you may enjoy the process and your chances more.

Re: Thoughts/Views On Sorority Recruitment Processes
 

Is it possible for the first two rounds to be one where, like normal, all the girls are required to attend every house for like 25 mins. Just to see all the options and giving every house a chance to show what they can do. Then the next rounds the girl can go back to where THEY want to go, still letting the houses select from these girls. Also make it less formal. Still have the cheering and skits but make it more relaxed. I know that at U of Mich in talking to many friends from other houses we all felt that recruitment was a shallow show. And that no house truely presents themselves because you're so worried about putting on the perfect show.

Please express any suggestions, flaws, add-ons, opinions, views and thoughts. Who knows maybe we can come up with something :)

Remember the previous was about experiences at my school ;)
ETA: Excuse for the scattered thoughts at 2 am but I didnt want to forget to write this [/B][/QUOTE]


This is the kind of idea I had in mind! I know when we speak about this topic, we are all coming from different places (big rushes are very diffreent from smaller ones). My school has a big rush, and I just comment based on what I see happening at my school...that said, I think the idea UMGirl suggested could be flexible enough to work in many different systems.

Sorry, I messed up the quote again! I still haven't totally figured quoting/posting out! :D

Okay, I went to a school with NINETEEN chapters, and to be honest, I was relieved that I got twelve invites back, because I had fewer decisions to make. IMO, at such a large school, you could not let the PNM's make all their own choices.

Also, can someone explain to me what changed at Michigan?

A speaker we had emphasized that you don't have to stop focusing on sisterhood, academics, social, whatever while you're COB. Too many chapters think that COB requires tons of extra effort -- throwing special parties just for them, more events, more stress. But it doesn't have to. When we COB, we just invite girls to the events we're already having -- bringing them to formal dinner at the house, taking them out for ice cream with our new girls, we even invite them to bid day celebrations. It's hardly any extra effort for us, and the girls get to see what we're really about. Instead of formal rush, where we're telling girls, "Oh, this is what we're like, this is what we do," they get to be out there with us seeing what it would be like to be in our sorority. IMO we lose too many intelligent girls to the formal rush process. They can see that it IS shallow and that they can't always get an accurate feel for what a house is really like. COB allows them to do that.

The problem is not that COB takes up too much time or effort, it's that many chapters don't know how to COB effectively.

Personally, we get so many great girls through COB that I'd prefer to skip formal rush altogether (super stressful and emotional time for all involved) and just COB year-round. :p


P.S.: Someone please elaborate on the differences between the "old system" and "new system" at Michigan!

Exactly....this is how it was at my university. We were one of the "weaker" sorroities at formal recruitment, but we knew how to COR women very effectively....for example, we've had a Alpha class of 0 women through formal recruitment (after what we thought was a darned good FR, too!) and picked up 10 women through COR which was the exact same number as quota from FR. The pressure is off, and like S&S said, these women can come to activities that we've already planned and see how we REALLY act when we're not in "recruitment mode".

Personally, we get so many great girls through COB that I'd prefer to skip formal rush altogether

sugar and spice -- I don't think your National would agree with you! LOL

In all honesty the only difference between the new and the old system seems to be that they lowered quota. Trying to make it fair for all houses to reach it instead of the same ones always making it.

But it seems like people are making it out to be a lot more.

That'd be the day! :p

Actually, I'm still holding out for the day when NPC sororities can choose whether or not they want to participate in formal recruitment . . . but I think that day will come long, long after I'm out of college.

UMgirl -- how is quota decided now? I was under the impression that the only acceptable ways to decide quota were

(1) the girls finishing second rounds divided by the number of sororities
or
(2) the number of girls placed in houses at the end of last year's rush, divided by the number of sororities.

It's not like the school can just make a number up.

Is it that the school enforced release figures for earlier rounds of rush, thus quota is lower because sororities are forced to cut more girls earlier?

There are a lot of ways to change recruitment, and there are schools where it is done differently even now (my school, we went to all houses for the first two parties, and it was interesting how your opinion could change just those two nights - and this was after a full semester of seeing Greeks on campus!). But one problem is that, regardless of the merits of any proposal, some schools simply have too much invested in the current system.

At some schools, for example, rush is before school even starts. If you were to slow down rush or eliminate formal, suddenly you'd have to find more dorm space for those girls instead of having them move in immediately. And most campuses already have housing crunches. I'm sure there are more examples, but this one comes to mind.

I was reading this doctoral thesis today. It was published about 10 years ago but dealt with the formation of the sorority system through 1930. She quoted some sorority leaders of the time. They didn't like the rush system back in their day and age either, but they concluded that until a more efficient system could replace it, they were stuck with it. Some things don't change!

Careful...don't throw the baby out with the bath water. It's not a bad system. On MANY campuses it works. Maybe not yours -- but many. Listen to those of us who have a broader experience. Work on making your chapter better within the system that is in place now. The only thing which you have full contol of is yourself.

Regardless of how rush is set up, I think one thought PNMs should always keep in mind is to BE CAREFUL what you post here! The Internet is simply not as anonymous as one might think!

No matter how wonderful a PNM thinks she is or how convinced she is that she is a perfect fit for Big, Popular Sorority, she should still be careful about making rude comments about the houses she isn't interested in. It could hurt the feelings of the sisters in the houses she "wouldn't fit into", plus the sisters from Big, Popular Sorority could read the comments and think, "Whoa, what a b**ch! We don't want anyone like that in our house!" Because, frankly, being popular doesn't necessarily equate with being b**chy.

Where I come from it's called CYA (Covering your A$$)

(being a dork and quoting myself :p )

One thing I forgot to mention when describing open houses, is that PNMs had to sign in and out of each sorority's rush room. These lists were compiled and sent to all the sororities, so you could see exactly who had gone where and for how long! Same thing for the "informal rush" round of FR. So if a PNM spent 5 hours with XYZ and 15 minutes with each of the other sororities, the "message" was that she only wanted XYZ, and the other chapters would cut her... OTOH, if she spent roughly the same amount of time with each sorority, you'd know she was really trying to keep her options open.

There was also nothing forcing a PNM to visit all 5 sororities during open houses. So a PNM could make some snap decisions early on in rush, and shoot herself in the foot. I didn't like the open house idea, for this very reason. (A lot of PNMs didn't even give AEPhi a chance, because they'd see that we were small. :( )

I did like the "informal rush" round, though - it had a bit of the "flavor" of COB without actually being COB. PNMs would go over to the house for a couple of hours, or go to lunch, etc. Maybe this would be a good thing to incorporate into the standard FR practices...

?
 

>>>In all honesty the only difference between the new and the old system seems to be that they lowered quota.<<<

I thought that quota was figured the same way pretty much across the board. Quota might vary from year to year at a particular school, but isn't there a formula for setting it that doesn't change?

Sugar and Spice....as far as I know the way that panhellenic (at least here at the UA) figures out quota is they divide the number of girls invited back for pref night (which for us is the fourth round) by the number of chapters on campus. So it's a little uneven cause probably anywhere from zero to 20 girls drop out on pref, upon receiving their invites. My thoughts on all of this is that sorority life as far as recruitment goes is much like Darwin's theory of life, it's survival of the fittest. And there is only so much we can do for those struggling chapters. This may sound bitchy but remember I come from one of those chapters who struggle with numbers.

I do not think that recruiting year round is a bad thing. My chapter does this. We may not do well in formal recruitment, but you know what the other advisors & chapters on campus admit this to us... We have the best retention rate! I also beleive that we have one of the strongest sisterhoods. We stick to each other in all times and we have never been hurt by year round COB!

There are two ways I know of to figure out what quota will be. The first is your simple number of PNMs divided by the number of sororities.

The second way is a little more complicated. But here it goes...

You need the following numbers:
Average % of women pledged
Number of potential new members
and the number of sororities.

Now, the formula is:
Quota = #PNMs (Avg. $ of women pledged)/ the number of sororities

An example:

Campus A has 100 women going through recruitment and five sororities participating. To figure quota with method one, you divide 100 by 5 and get 20. Simple.

Same campus, using quota method two (using 67% as the average number pledged):

100 (.67)/5 = Quota
Quota = 13.4

The reason that folks use the second method of figuring quota is that you factor in the idea that some women will drop out either before the end or after signing a bid, AND, there can be quota additions, snap bids, etc. after bid matching to help alleviate any women who go bidless.

Does ANY of this make sense, and is this the difference of how Michigan figured quota?

>>>Does ANY of this make sense, and is this the difference of how Michigan figured quota?<<<

Shadokat,
It does make sense and I am guessing that UMGirl means they changed the way quota was figured this year, thus making it lower. Thanks.

at MICHIGAN....

Acutally quota was figured the same way as its always been. They took the #s of women returning to 3rd sets divided by 15 sororities. there were 600 women returning so quota was 40.

The system was changed so houses that always made quota in previous years had to make heavier cuts after each of the rounds. Houses that were bigger were only allowed to invite back 300 of the 750 women for 2nd sets while the smaller houses could invite as many as wanted to return. The same level of cuts happened after the other sets as well.

Quota is lower than ever at Michigan because the interest in Greek Life is dropping. They didn't lower quota to make the system fairer. This year only 750 women registered to rush whereas 5 years ago when I was a freshman, there were 1500 of us and quota was 53.

I was talking to a friend in KKG and she said the most noticable difference is that they had more different girls than previoius and the houses they competed with were spread out.

I hope it is understood though that even though it looks like the smaller groups are inviting everyone back they are still using a release figure formula (they are, aren't they?). If not, I can understand why people would be agitated thinking they are getting a "break."

>>>The system was changed so houses that always made quota in previous years had to make heavier cuts <<<

Thank you for the clarification. It doesn't seem to me that using release figures is a new idea, but perhaps not common at larger schools? I helped with recruitment at a very small campus where they enforce release figures. The AOII chapter there has a high return rate, so they had to release 1/3 of the rushees before the 1st invitational party (as did 2 other groups). This is significant for any campus, but when you only have about 90 PNM's it can turn into a very bad thing if you are not careful. I am interested in what those who know have to say about enforcing release figures and how common it is or is not. I see the reason for it, but doesn't it handicap the larger houses?

I would say no. The top groups will always have women lining up to join them. It basically lets women who aren't going to go "popular chapter XYZ" know they hey, they're NOT going to. They can either drop out of recruitment (thus lowering quota and giving smaller groups a better chance of making quota, because these same women are like to attend "popular chapter XYZ" and "less popular ABC" and single intentional preference XYZ) or give better considersation to group ABC and not be surprised on Bid Day.

From my experience, this is very helpful because if chapters do not follow release figures, a top chapter can invite maybe even up to three times quota to their preference party. That's almost 2x quota women that are probably going to be at least a little disappointed on Bid Day. Cross cutting is higher, single intentional preference is higher, etc.

>>>I would say no. The top groups will always have women lining up to join them. It basically lets women who aren't going to go "popular chapter XYZ" know they hey, they're NOT going to.<<<

That part I can understand and agree with, but in the case of the chapter recruitment I helped with, I think they had to release women that they might have ultimately bid, just for the sake of numbers. I know that it has to be the case when you are releasing 300+ women in the first cut. Even if you release first for grades and such, there are still women in there that you just didn't get to meet. I am from a chapter that was the smallest on campus and I am sure that abiding by release figures (back in the day) would have helped us overall, but there has to be a happy medium. I am wondering if the present system is it.

I think the time when release figures are needed the most is when chapters are being greedy...let's face it, if you invite 50 girls to pref and you only have 5 spots to fill, that is just plain mean. Mean to the rushees to lead them on, and mean to the other sororities because you are keeping alive false hopes for a girl who if she was let go from a house that is totally out of reach, might be able to look at other houses with an open heart and mind.

It all depends on what the group's average return percentage was for the past 3 years (and even then -- there can be flaws with that number). Let's say a group had an average 40% return going into pref -- they should probably invite 50 in order to fill 5 spots.

oh, duh!
 

of course, that is what I meant. :p if you are a group where everyone who goes to your pref puts you first, you don't need 10 times the amount of girls you can bid at pref.

So, after 1st set the "big" houses had to release more than half! :eek: And when you say the ame level of cuts happened after eash round, do you mean the big houses had to always cut half and the smaller got to invite as many as they wanted? If that's the case, that hardly seems fair. But maybe I am reading that part wrong.

Regardless, I can't imagine having to cut over half the women. I can understand making the larger groups cut more before 3rd round, but isn't it unfair to the PNMs that the larger houses are forced into not being able to give the PNM a second chance? We were a "top" chapter and there were some girls who stuck out in Round 1, but many of our quality PNMs didn't show their true (read - calmer and not so nervous) selves until 2nd or 3rd round. We used release figures when I was Rush chair, but they weren't huge and it usually came down to deciding between about 5 women. I can't imagine having to cut so many...Ugh...