This lawsuit is ridiculous
 

Relatives of slain student sue WKU
Suit says negligence led to rape, murder in dormitory room
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By MARK PITSCH
mpitsch@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

Melissa "Katie" Autry was attacked in her dormitory room at Western Kentucky University on May 4.
Relatives of a Western Kentucky University freshman who was set on fire in her dormitory room filed a lawsuit yesterday against the school and others, alleging negligence in her death.

Virginia White, the aunt of Melissa "Katie" Autry, also criticized WKU President Gary Ransdell for comments he made after Autry's death.

"Western's administration speaks of responsibility," White said in an interview. "What an example they are setting for our young adults by blaming the victim. They're saying if you get raped, robbed, et cetera, it's your fault. ... They need to take responsibility."

Ransdell and WKU General Counsel Deborah Wilkins declined to be interviewed. But the university issued a statement that said the safety of its students, faculty, staff and visitors is "of paramount importance."

"While the university regrets the terrible crime that was perpetrated against Ms. Autry, it is confident that the facts will show neither its staff nor its policies played a role in this tragic event," the statement said. "... It is the position of the university that the person or persons involved in this crime are solely responsible for Ms. Autry's death."

The university said it will "vigorously defend" itself against the lawsuit.

Autry died May 7, three days after suffering third- and fourth-degree burns in her Hugh Poland Hall dorm room. Two men have been charged with her murder.

The lawsuit, filed in Warren Circuit Court by White and Donnie Autry, Katie Autry's mother, asks for unspecified monetary damages for medical expenses, loss of earning capacity, pain and suffering, funeral costs, punitive damages and attorney's fees.

AUTRY LAWSUIT
Plaintiffs: Melissa "Katie" Autry's mother, Donnie Autry, and aunt, Virginia White
Defendants: Western Kentucky University; WKU Student Life Foundation; five current or former WKU employees; Pi Kappa Alpha Fraternity and its WKU chapter

Allegations: Negligence on the part of WKU, the student life foundation, and the five employees for failing to enforce and follow security procedures.

Negligence on the part of the national fraternity and its WKU chapter for failing to properly supervise and provide security at a party.

In addition to WKU, the lawsuit names as defendants the WKU Student Life Foundation, which owns the university's dorms; the WKU chapter of the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity and its headquarters in Memphis, Tenn.; and five school employees the suit alleges were working in Hugh Poland Hall on the night Autry was fatally burned.

The employees are Sandra Hess, Poland Hall director in 2002-03; Aubrey Livingston, the assistant hall director in 2002-03; and Lynne Allison Todd, Alex Kuehne and Aja Hendrix.

The lawyer for White and Autry, Ben Crocker of Bowling Green, said Todd was the desk clerk at Poland Hall on the night of the attack and Kuehne and Hendrix were the resident assistants in charge that night.

John David Cole, a Bowling Green lawyer who is chairman of the student life foundation, said the lawsuit is "without merit" regarding allegations against the foundation.

HE SAID THE foundation is responsible for making sure the dorm meets structural health and safety codes and that it did at the time of the attack. He noted that the sprinkler system in Autry's dorm room went off after she was set on fire.

Cole also said he didn't believe WKU or its employees were liable for Autry's death.

Crocker said the foundation is responsible because it is the owner of the dorm. In 2000, WKU transferred ownership of the building and 16 other dormitories to the nonprofit foundation to help finance renovations of the school's dorms. Housing and residence life employees who run the dorms are still university employees.

Justin Perkins, president of the WKU chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha, said he could not comment on the suit. Eric Wulf, executive director of the national PKA organization, said Autry's murder was a "horrible crime." Wulf said the fraternity was "somewhat surprised" at being named a defendant but declined further comment because it hadn't received an official copy of the lawsuit.

Hess, Livingston, Todd, Kuehne and Hendrix didn't return telephone calls seeking comment.

White and Autry brought the suit as administrators of Autry's estate.

"It's not at all about the money," White said of the lawsuit. "It's about the whole world needs to know about this girl and Western needs to take responsibility and make sure it doesn't happen again."

She said suing for money is "probably the only way to get their attention."

AUTRY, WHO was a part-time student at WKU during the spring 2003 semester, had gone to a party at the PKA fraternity house adjacent to campus a few hours before she was attacked, police said.

Ryan Payne of Scottsville, who was then a PKA pledge, gave Autry a ride to her dorm early May 4, Sgt. Mike Dowell of the WKU police testified at a Warren District Court hearing in May. Dowell said another person at the party, Stephen L. Soules, 20, of Scottsville, was in the car on that trip and was taken to a nearby dorm, Bemis Lawrence Hall.

Dowell said at the hearing that five days after Autry's death Soules admitted raping and sodomizing Autry and dousing her with hairspray. Soules told police that Lucas B. Goodrum, 21, of Scottsville, also raped and sodomized Autry and set her on fire, according to Dowell.

Soules and Goodrum were each charged with murder and first-degree rape, sodomy, and arson and/or complicity to commit those crimes. Soules was also charged with first-degree robbery.

They have pleaded innocent. A pre-trial conference in the case has been scheduled for Monday.

In response to Autry's murder, a WKU task force made 18 recommendations to improve campus safety, including requiring freshmen to live in same-sex dorms and installing digital surveillance cameras at dorm entrances and exits. Ransdell said in July, when the recommendations were announced, that each would be implemented, although funding is not available to put all of them in place immediately.

RANSDELL SAID at the time that he would emphasize with students this year "individual responsibility and prudence in your personal activities." He also said students should remove themselves from "high-risk" situations and not bring "the risk element of what can be a dangerous society into your campus community."

White criticized Ransdell for what she called his "disrespectful" remarks. "It's always easier to blame someone who isn't here to defend themselves," she said.

White acknowledged that another student told her Autry had been drinking on the night of the party, but she said Autry had made a responsible decision by going back to her room.

"Western's administration says recognize when you're in a dangerous situation and remove yourself from it. How much more could Katie have removed herself?" White said. "She was in her dorm room, the place she considered home. She should've been protected."

The lawsuit contends the university, the foundation and the five university employees failed to follow proper rules and procedures governing dorms, failed to provide adequate security and failed to "exercise ordinary care" for Autry.

It said those failures led to Autry's death.

The lawsuit doesn't specify what procedures weren't followed, but Crocker alleged that Poland Hall was unlocked in violation of WKU policies and that Autry's attackers didn't show identification to the desk clerk and weren't escorted to her room by a resident.

But WKU, in its statement, cited media reports that suggested Autry's attackers got into the dorm and her room "with her consent." Bob Edwards, assistant vice president for university relations, cited reports of a comment by Soules' lawyer, Zachary Kafoglis, that Autry invited Soules to her room.

The lawsuit accuses the fraternity chapter of negligence, saying it didn't provide adequate security or care for its guests at the party Autry attended.

-----------------------------------# # #---------------------------------
This is ridiculous on the party of the family. This girl was sober enough to make the decision to get a designated driver to take her home. However, she had to call them to tell them what room she was in and she had to go downstairs to let them in.
It's sad that she died and I think her attackers should pay for what they did to her. . .but for her aunt to blame the school(yes, in part they should have had updated equipment but they did have policies to check people in), the front desk clerks(they only did their job, they could have intervened but they didn't know that the girl didn't know the 2 strangers she went downstairs to get and let into her room), the people who own the dorms(because the facilities should have been secure but that isn't their fault), the WKU president because he told the students to 'remove themselves from bad situations', and PIKEs for having the party that she got drunk at(they got her home safely. . .after that, she was on her own).


why is it that people want to blame everyone for doing soemthing that they had nothing to do with?

I don't know if this lawsuit is ridiculous or not. A young woman is dead after being raped, sodomized, and set on fire. That is so horrible. What kind of monsters behave that way?!

It might be ridiculous. The mother and aunt named everybody to the lawsuit except the monsters that actually committed the crime. I think they are probably just gold diggers.

Based on the limited info provided in the story I don't see how the school, employees, or the fraternity are responsible.

If the girl let the guys into her room then she was stupid.

But it wasn't their fault
She was in her dorm room
Either she called the guys to come up
Or she walked over to get them

She was 18 yrs old making her own decisions
Who are they to tell her no?


At the same time, wouldn't you get mad if your university said that no guy that you wanted over(friend, boyfriend, uncle, grandpa) could enter the building with you?

Everyone starts screaming they have the right to do this and that. . .until someone gets hurt or ends up dead. . .then, it's everyone else's fault for not protecting them from doing what they want to do.

actually there is WAY more to the story,

She was in the state's custody because her family wasn't able to take care of her. She had been living with a foster family for 10 years - NOT HER MOM and NOT HER AUNT!!! They are filing a lawsuit for money, for the death of a girl they LEGALLY GAVE UP!!! Her mother gave up her rights by putting her in foster care, and if her aunt loved her so much why didn't she let her come stay with her?

Golddiggers is the nicest word for those women.

I agree with Cream. And if what Sarah says is true, then the story is all the more awful. It sounds as if the poor girl lived a difficult life, and died a horrible death. Its tragic. I hope that she can at least rest in peace. Poor, poor child. :(

Right. When I read the story, I was like, "mother? This is the first time I've heard about her mother!" I assumed her mother was dead, because the only person I've heard about from her family was her grandmother (whom, you notice, isn't on the suit). This reminds me of how Dennehy's (basketball player from Baylor) father just popped out of nowhere, wanting "punitive damages" resulting from his son--whom he had little if any part in raising--being killed. The only "punitive damages" these clowns should receive is the ones for being neglectful parents until it's too late. :mad:

I'm also seeing red because the fact that residential directors' names are listed on the suit, but that's another post entirely.

It's a terrible story, and I hope the responsible parties--ie, the murders/rapists are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It's just wrong to pull in innocent parties out of grief.

Re: This lawsuit is ridiculous
 

Here's, based on the article, the point of the lawsuit. Was the dorm unlocked? Did the desk clerk let them in without an escort?
Which one, the victim or the rapist is the most sympathatic? Sorry, while I do think there are some people named who MAY not be liable, the lawsuit does not seem that silly to me.

As a former student of Western, I know the doors are never unlocked... we locked them at 10 or 12 (I can't remember cause it was 5 years ago!) when I was a night clerk. If you didn't have a key and knocked we had to go open the door and get verification of your name and room number with an ID you had to have present, if you didn't have an ID we had to have the RA on duty come down and take you to your room to get it.

So I doubt that the doors were locked.
As for letting them up- the dorm that she lived in was a co-ed dorm so it is possible the managed their way into the building, but I doubt it. WKU went to a system where you had to show your student ID to get in to the building and each dorm was color coded seperately with a sticker.
The 2 guys accused of this horrendous crime were never Western Students, either, they were just two guys. She would have had to come down and signed them in.... after hours I have never seen this policy not followed. There are strict cohabitation rules for the dorms, so you have to check people in. If they are checked in for more than 12 hours then it is a violation of the rules and agreements and the person that signed them in has to meet with the director of the dorm (or asst. director) and they get a warning. Until they meet they have NO VISITATION.

So, anyway, as for what happened to the girl- it is worse than reported. I had friends on the EMS unit that came to the dorm to extinguish the fire. The details are so gross and bad that they could barely talk about it.

I feel for her friends and her foster family the most. They loved Katie and were by her side all throughout the entire ordeal. It happened on a Saturday night, and she didn't die until Wednesday.

As for the Pikes involvement, they are RIGHT NEXT DOOR, and SHARE A YARD with the AGR's. If they didn't have a security guard then AGR would have called them as a violation of IFC policy. They get points deducted and aren't allowed to have parties or be involved in certain activities depending on how many points they have.

So all in all, I doubt their case is legit and the family is money hungry because they haven't had anything to do with her in 2 years. She was even a stripper for a short time to get money... I mean what parent or aunt or whatever would let their daughter/niece strip instead of helping them out- if they loved them and cherished them as much as these two claim to?
That is MY OPINION though.

Thank you Sara. Once again, this just proves one thing! Lets sue every son of a bitch that we can to get some $$$$$$$.:(

It is sad that the feelings for this young lady were over powered by money!:o

Thank You ACLU, let us have co-ed dorms with the doors open all damn night! DA! Someone can in a co-ed dorm can come in to a room and do what ever!

Dont get me going there!:mad:

Damn, I wish I was a Judge!:)

Less Prision Population! Save money! OOPS, cost more for a murderer to stay on death row than the average dumb ass.:(

Tom, don't go ragging on co-ed dorms. They are not the problem. I live in a co-ed building my first 2 years that housed 2000 students.
We had security measures, that are alot more lax than what I am getting reading about from Ilovemyglo.
Nothing this bad ever happened.
There were a few female students that were sexually assulted, but not by students. It was by local men that broke in. It has nothing to do with co-ed dorms.
Sometimes, no metter was prevention methods one takes, bad things can still happen.
This is a frivolous lawsuit IMO. No amount of money can ever replace a loved one or will ever make you feel better. (well it seems that it can in this case)

I did a search and found some stories about this incident. Those animals covered the ceiling sprinklers in her room with towels, and sprayed hairspray (very flammable) on her vaginal area and breasts then caught her on fire. That poor, poor little girl :( What an awful way to suffer and die.

What kind of sick f*cks would do that???

I believe an eye for an eye on this one.

I don't think this is a frivolous lawsuit, but I am not quite sure whether or not PiKA should be held accountable or not...What a horrible, malicious, inhuman act....I hadn't heard of this story before today....I don't pray often, but I will pray for her soul...It sounds as if she had had a hard life and she deserved better than this...

Yeah, co-ed dorms are the signal that our society is going to hell in a handbasket. :rolleyes:

Like Lady Pi Phi, I lived in co-ed dorms for the entire time I was an undergrad. We didn't have anyone to check in residents at the dorm door--we just had to swipe in at the door and we were fine. Same for our guests. The RAs had nothing to do with letting in students.

Nothing of this sort happened in my four years. This was an isolated incident at the hands of two savage, insane "men". Occasionally, there was a laptop theft or two, but that was more based on the carelessness of students leaving their doors open than any major security breach on the part of the University.

Besides, co-ed dorms mainly came about as a result of extreme gender inbalances in some universities. They couldn't justify keeping a men's-only dorm 45% full, where the women's housing was bursting at the seams. Hence, co-ed dorms. The social changes of the 60s and 70s had something to do with it as well, but in many places, sheer numbers dictated the way things had to be--not the ACLU or some such organization. :rolleyes:

So, some lawsuit is in order--against the perpetrators, not every single party listed.

Re: Re: This lawsuit is ridiculous
 

Well this will be the test case of the lawsuit right?

This is so completely vile, horrible and insane--- that poor young woman, regardless of her past-- was tortured to death. I can't believe something like that happened. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/911267/posts

It is truly beyond belief. No human being should ever go through an ordeal like that. The two accused attackers should receive nothing less than the death penalty for this sadistic and brutal murder.

Please do not take what I said as being cold to the situation. I was refering to the law suit only.

This was and is a horrendous thing to have happen to anyone and the individuals should be held accountable to the Nth Degree.

To be subgigated to something this so terrible that it is hard for one to realize that any human could do something of this nature.

What has been sad, is that this did not make any major news here other than a small news item:(

May these two people rot in hell, and so may the from under the rock semi-relatives who want to sue everyone in sight, simply for just the money from a tragic and needless situation.:(

Ugh. This young woman's story made me physically ill. The men who did it should have to pay for their crime, of course and nothing besides life in prison with other violent criminals is the most appropriate punishment (I don't know if Kentucky has the death penalty, but if it does, that would be too humane for them).

As for the lawsuit & whether it is ridiculous or not, is a matter up for debate & probably depends on which part you consider ridiculous-is it the fact of the suit at all? Is it the relationship of the plaintiffs to the victim & the outrage at their attempts to profit off of her horrible death, when it sort of appears they were not too concerned about her during her life? Is it the scattershot selection of Defendants? In any case, assuming Kentucky's negligence laws are like the majority of states, the plaintiffs will have to prove negligence on the part of each of the defendants - using elements similar to these:

Did the defendant(s) have a duty to the victim? (if I was on the jury, I would have a difficult time finding that the fraternity had a duty to protect this woman in her dorm room...but I don't have all the facts at this point)

If so, was that duty breached? procedures may not have been followed...this could = breach

Did the victim suffer actual harm or damages? Obviously she did, but then there's the next element....

Was there an actual causal connection between the Defendant's negligent conduct and the victim's injuries?

There's more to this case than plain vanilla negligence, but that kind of helps to put things into legal terms & deciding whether there is merit to the aunt's/mother's case.... I think there may be some validity to the claim against the housing foundation if in fact their procedures (procedures may establish that there was a duty) were not followed and the plaintiffs can prove the procedures weren't followed, and a causal connection to the injury. Agency law will determine if the other individuals named can be held personally liable if in fact their actions/non-actions are determined to be a breach of duty.

It's natural for people to want someone to be held responsible for things like this, and if the students in that dorm were not reasonable protected then obviously corrective measures need to be taken. The relationship of the mother/aunt to the victim is what makes this lawsuit seem shady. I guess we will just see what happens.

Thanks for the link to the article, adpiucf. I have never read such a brutal and inhumane story. It is such a tragedy. I feel so soory for that poor young woman. I don't know how anyone could do something so awful. It seems to me that "Katie" had a really hard life from the beginning. She seemed to be getting her life in order when these evil men murdered her. I just can't understand man's inhumanity to his fellow man.

Ugh...that just makes me sick.

I'm guessing that burned her vaginal region so that evidence of rape would disappear.

That poor girl. Although she stayed alive until May 7, I doubt she was conscious...I'm sure she was on life support. I hope that her last few moments of clarity were not spent in pain. I'm hoping she passed out when they suffocated her so that she didn't have to feel them stab and burn her.

Those boys are monsters. I don't think any punishment, short of torture, would be strong enough for them.

More on Katie's Background


Katie Autry was learning to live on her own as a college freshman. She had started proceedings to leave a foster-care program, was about to buy her first car and was holding down two jobs, one as a dancer at a strip club.

But her life on her own ended violently. Autry, 18, was found beaten, stabbed and burned in her smoldering dorm room at Western Kentucky University after an evening of drinking at a fraternity party. She died three days later.

Two men from Scottsville, not far from the WKU campus in Bowling Green, were arrested and charged with murder in her May 7 death.

According to court papers, Stephen Soules, 20, told police he watched Lucas Goodrum, 21, rape, beat and try to smother Autry with a pillow before spraying hairspray on her and setting her on fire. She was found with severe burns over much of her body, and puncture wounds and scrapes on her face and neck.

"Nobody deserved what this girl got," said her aunt, Virginia White. "Someone had a lot of anger to have done this girl the way they done her."

Police are saying little about the days leading up to the early-morning attack on May 4. No motive has been given.

Autry worked at a campus coffee store and had danced at least four times at Tattletails, a strip club not far from campus.

"Sometimes young people make choices that have very unfortunate consequences," university President Gary Ransdell said before the first arrest Sunday. "But those are the kinds of things we're trying to learn about Katie, and Katie's life, and who else was involved in her life."

Police used Soules' statement to support a murder charge against Goodrum, then charged Soules. It was not clear how police came to suspect Soules. The two face a preliminary hearing Monday.

Police will not say whether Autry knew her alleged attackers, though it appears their paths may have crossed at the frat party the last weekend before finals. A police affidavit placed Goodrum and Soules at the Pi Kappa Alpha house that night, though neither of the unemployed men is a student at the university. All three had been drinking, police said.

Whether her attackers forced their way into her room or were invited has not been disclosed.

"I never heard her mention either guy," said White, who was close to her niece.

Autry, who grew up in Pellville, about 75 miles north of Bowling Green, was placed along with her younger sister in a foster family because their mother was unable to care for them and their father was no longer around. But their mother maintained contact with the girls, as did White.

In April, Autry started proceedings to leave the foster-care program that she had planned to stay in until she was 21. She had dropped from a full-time to a part-time student, took on two jobs and planned to rent an off-campus apartment for the summer.

White said she understood her niece's decision to dance at the strip club--the last time on April 26, according to a club manager. "She was trying to pay her bills and pay her rent and stuff," her aunt said.

"She only worked there a couple of weeks," White said, adding that her niece did not dance nude. "There was always a possibility she could have met the boys there, but I seriously doubt it."

Goodrum and Soules, who are being held on $1 million bail each, have refused interview requests relayed through their jailers, and their families have not returned repeated calls.

The two were friends at Allen County Scottsville High School, said William Cooper, a former principal. Goodrum graduated in 2000, and Soules was moved in March 2000 to an alternative school for disciplinary reasons.

The day before the fire, a 17-year-old girl from Scottsville told police Goodrum struck her twice in the face with a cell phone, but she did not obtain a warrant for his arrest, and he was not charged. He was charged last year with violating an emergency protective order filed by his ex-wife, but it was dropped.

Last year, Soules was charged with public intoxication and underage possession of alcohol. In 2000, he was charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

"I don't know how they met and they can't bring Katie back, but at least these guys aren't on the street," White said.


Another Excerpt


Until enrolling at Western last year, Katie Autry lived in Pellville in Hancock County with Jim and Shirley Inman, her foster parents. White said Autry lived with the Inmans for about 10 years and that Autry's younger sister, Lisa, is still in their care.

White also said that Donnie Autry was unable to care for her daughters, that they had no contact with their father, and that state officials thought it best for them to be placed in foster care.

White said she and Donnie Autry sought to become administrators of Katie Autry's estate because "Donnie is her mother and she loves her kids very much."

What a horrible horrible thing.

Jesus, those guys are monsters.

Now, i'm not going to say that PKA is responsible, like most of y'all i don't think they should be blamed. BUT it's been said that these two guys weren't members or even students at WKU. If that's the case what were they doing at the PKA party?

As a former risk reduction officer one of the hardest parts of my job was keeping tabs on what guests came to our parties. We always had randoms or locals who had heard of the party and tried to get in. PKA and future fraternities will save themselves a lot of grief if better risk reduction steps are taken in the future. We always had brothers who wanted to invite friends that weren't in the frat but it was always clear that their names would be on the guest list and any trouble they caused would fall on the brother's responsibility.

Kitso
KS 361

At WKU if you are invited you do not have to be a member to come to a party- you just have to be invited or have a friend that is a member. You have to sign in and you are either on the Over 21 list or under. TO get in with the OVER 21 list you have to show an ID

is there someone at the door with a guest list?

or are guys just walkin up saying, oh yeah, i was invited and just pull out some brother's name?

Kitso
KS 361

There is someone with the guest list, usually two or three brothers (whoever is sober brother that night) and a security guard to check ID's.

Let me add that it wasn't this way until my junior year. Before that you could go to any party anywhere. We used to have like 5 girls and one or two guys with us and they would come to all the fraternity parties. But WKU did away with Thursday night parties and made these strict rules. Since then WKU hasn't been as much of a party school.

I'm sorry, but some of the comments people are making are absolutely disgusting!!! All we know is a girl is dead and that it is so sad for her parents and the rest of her family and friends. Her parents, aunt and whoever are likely suing everyone because if they don't sue Pike, the RAs, etc. now, they can't re-file the claim later. It doesn't mean that Pike, or anyone for that matter, will be held liable. As for whether or not they should be liable, I don't think anyone should make judgments on the situation if they don't know all the facts. (A newspaper article as a source for judgment is not always accurate or complete) Refer up to dzandliloo's post regarding the elements that they'll have to prove because that is all we know right now about the status of this suit.

As for the character attack on the victim...who cares if the girl was in foster care or stripped to make money. Does that justify what happened to her? I'd like to think that if something like this happened to me people would not be so quick to jump on the "blame the victim" bandwagon. Let's try not to judge the actions or character of the deceased if you weren't there to see it.

I think you are out of line here, I see no character or judgement calls on her at all... please show me those if you could. I was pointing out she was trying to say she was having to work to better herself. I wasn't saying "oh look what kind of girl she was" in anyway shape or form, but she was having to do things in order to get money for herself and better her life.

All I have seen are people expressing their disgust for these actions, not placing blame on the girl.

I personally have know people that have been directly affected by this, and it is horrendous. THe first guy accused is being brought into court again today. I have been following this closely because 1. it is my alma mater, and 2. i know people that were there- from in the dorm to the resue workers and they will all remember Katie Autry until they leave this world.

whoa there.

I think what most posters that are bringing up the stripping are pointing to is the supposed 'concern' for her well being by her mother and aunt. Their point is this, if they cared so much for her, why did they let her strip and not attempt to help her out.

I'm personally staying out of the stripping argument. My main beef is that PKA and other fraternities need to learn to be extremely careful with who they permit to attend parties. I'd like to think that the brothers who invited these 2 animals should face some sort of repercussion within their chapterl. I'd push for a reduction of social events and the loss of invitation abilities. By inviting these 2 boneheads, those brothers put their chapter at risk.

I'm not insinuating that the loss of a charter is more heinous than what happened to the girl, just saying that PKA could have done a better job.

Kitso
KS 361

Welcome to George Bush's America!!!

My apologies if my comments were taken as a attack on anyone's posts. Maybe my perception of the discussion that was going on was not what you intended it to be. Part of my digust is linked to another thread discussing this situation in the Hazing board. Apologies all around.

It is a tragic story so I can understand your reaction. She deserved better than the hand she was dealt. No one deserves that viciousness and cruelty.

the sad thing is you greek idiots dont even know what youre talking about, and here you are again blaming the victim. She did notget her own designated driver, i got it for her, which i have to live with the decision that i made for her every day. She did not go downstairs and let them in. She didnt have to, they walked right in, and were never asked for ID, thats why it took the police a few days to find them. The only reason they found them as quickly as they did is because I was able to identify the vehicle she got in. You people disgust me who talk about the case, and Katie herself as if you even know whats going on. Because obviously, you dont. And, by the way, its not as if greeks arent known for getting BELIGERANTLY drunk themselves and making stupid decisions. we all have, how dare you judge her for that. the only difference is, she didnt survive her stupid mistake. This doesnt make HER stupid, it makes her decision stupid.

What exactly in the thread are you responding to? Quotes would help, because I don't get your outrage at GC.

And, it's probably not in your best interest to be making public posts about this subject. Sounds like you're a witness and who knows, possibly an accomplice??? I have nothing to base that on other than the fact that you got her the DD, and, I'm not sure of where this litigation currently stands, but you should talk to your own attorney about this instead of posting on an internet message board.

I understand that you were personally involved in this story, but why dredge up a 5 year old post to make rude and generalized statements about the group of people who are the target audience for the board? Did you think your post would be met with any sort of favor, or are you just picking fights to get out your anger from an event that happened so many years ago? If you're still that upset about an event from 5 years ago, you probably need to look into getting some help for that.

ETA:According to this litigation ended in April of last year.

Ugh... new resolution for '08, don't go back and re-read whole threads on disturbing subjects. Good lord, I want to puke. I tried to avoid reading the "whole" story because I felt I'd gotten enough from what GCers were saying, thanks much to whoever decided to post the article contents in addition to the links... I feel like I need to bathe my eyes.

I don't know what to make of the poster who dredged this up. Either someone who seriously needs to seek some therapy to deal with this, or a terribly evil, mean-spirited troll.

Does anyone know what happened to the two monsters in this story? Please, oh please, tell me KY has the death penalty. (and it's a slow death by letting vultures peck at you or something...)

The victim made some incredibly poor decisions, like we all have at times in our lives, but no one is blaming her.

If the perps were able to enter the dorms because the RAs/clerks were not following policy, then there is solid the reasoning behind that suit.

Trying to cast the blame on a fraternity is f-ing ridiculous. It takes a pretty bent mind to follow the logic on that one. Are we going to start suing Fridays if a person has a drink there, goes home to find a thief inside, and then gets raped? WTF!

'Well, fraternities need to be more responsible' 'Whoever knew these two guys should be thrown out of their chapter...' How about we hold you accountable for every person that has EVER stepped foot inside your frat/sorority house be they friends, acquaintance, or randoms.

Apparently, one pleaded guilty and was given life w/o parole. The other was aquitted.

http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...nt_ID=67252532

^^^Thanks for the link. Ugh, I can't believe that one got off.