Ohh God...Where Do I Even Start?!
 

We just had recruitment and got all of these amazing girls...or at least I thought so. One of our new members was completely rude to one of our initiated sisters and then asked why we have a rule about not going to the 2nd floor of fraternity houses at a party. We don't have a rule like that...we encourage our sisters to be safe and to act responsibly, but we don't make rules about what they can or can't do at a party. The problem is that we were working really hard to make sure we got great, classy girls during rush...and I think this one member might cause some problems in the future. How do you even go about starting a conversation with them about having fun but acting responsibly at the same time. This girl doesn't seem to get it.

That's why there is a pledge period.

She might just be putting her foot in her mouth out of nervousness. It might be that her friends are jealous that she got a bid and are feeding her rumours. Or she might not be interested in anything other than boys & partying.

Just keep an eye on her - after all you have only known her for a very short time!!

we had a similar situation once-
we ended up at the next new member meeting role playing and going over the standards.
It was fun and informative because for one it was something about being in a fraternity house past 3:30AM is shacking and our role playing went something like this:
Girl 1- I am staying here at a fraternity house
Girl 2- I am a GDI and I see that AGD shacking, they must all be skanks!
New member educator-
this is why we don't shack! It is also safer to leave with sisters to ensure you arrive home safely and so on and so forth...
they really played it up and made it funny, but informative.
This way they learn the code of standards and why they were chosen.
Sarah

I know first impressions can mean everything, but sometimes you have to give new members a chance. Trust me, I wondered what the hell my chapter was thinking the year I was a recruitment counselor and we got a huge group of girls- half were really awesome, half were full of attitude. It was like the bipolar sorority. But after a little time spent with all the girls together, the ones who were in it for the "wrong reasons" (ie. Shacking up with fraternity guys, etc.- I quoted that because not everyone thinks those reasons are wrong) either straightened up or realized that their ideals were just not the same as those of the rest of us.

Hopefully this girl is just nervous; she may be thinking that being in a sorority is a total change of lifestyle (which it can be), but it may not be exactly what she thought it was. And if all else fails, try to think that all things improve with time... hopefully. :rolleyes:

educating new members...
 

For most freshmen, this is their first shot at true freedom, and though they are legal adults, they still need to work on the whole judgement thing and probably aren't aware of the consequences of their actions.

I can give you a first-hand experience...
My freshman year, the actives kept telling our pledge class we needed to have more "bonding" experiences as a pledge class. ie: do something all together. Sooo we did...we all ended up in some fraternity house playing the drinking game "I never" Yeah it was fun at the time, and no, none of us really thought anything of it, until we all got called into standards and then realized how it really made our house look.... Needless to say, we did all learn a lesson and it did bring our whole pledge class together (so I guess it wasn't a total loss!).

I think the best thing to do, would to have your new member educator sit down with the entire pledge class and just have an open discussion. Don't forbid girls from doing things--that will just cause rebellion. But explain WHY it is important to consider oneself as being watched and viewed by others at all times. B/C it seems like on most campuses, everyone is just looking for excuses to bag on fraternities and sororities--we don't want to give them reason to!

Hopefully this girl in question is just a little curious about college life and its limitations...and hopefully she realizes that she wants to be a positive role model not only for the sorority, but for herself as well.

See, but this is what frustrates me.

Say a really sweet girl comes thru Recruitment. She's awesome all week, everyone really likes her, and all are happy when she's at the house on Bid Day. Yay for New Member Suzy! We all love her. But as Suzy gets more and more comfortable around the sisters, more of her true colors come out - and you realize that she isn't the person she portrayed during Recruitment, and she isn't really someone you want in your house. Maybe she's rude, maybe she's tacky, maybe she doesn't seem to be there for the right reasons...

But basically, you're stuck with her - there's no way, at least not in my organization, to get rid of a New Member after you've given her a bid - if you give her a bid after just meeting her BARELY during Recruitment, she can become a member of your organization - a lifelong sister.

It's like the New Member period gives them a chance to find out more about the organization, and the active sisters - and they can choose to stay or drop - but the active members never get another chance to decide if we want to keep or drop the new members!

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, it's just something that's been on my mind. I'm not saying that this girl deserves to be dropped - it just seems like there's such a limited number of choices that sororities have after giving that young woman a bid. Of course, the first steps should be to talk to the new member, use general group discussions then one-on-one, but after that - ultimately you can be stuck with someone who just isn't right for you!

Any thoughts?

That's so true too. I don't know why in sororities if you find out that the girl just isn't right for your sorority that you cant like not initiate her. I know in fraternities they can do that. It's called like blackballing, and Ive actually seen it done a few times. I dont know why it cant be done for sororities as well. Maybe thats just my opinion


Nichole

No, it's not just your opinion...it's mine, too! :p It's so hard to make a decision about a person based on a couple of half-hour conversations in a noisy room, and sometimes you find out later that you don't particularly care for people you thought were cool at first. I know "blackballing" sounds bad, but why can't we do it and call it something else? ;)

I apologize in advance for continuing the hijack, but....

Granted, I'm not totally up on NPC nm-processes and all that, but I thought I was more up than this! Are you saying there's no way to de-pledge (or whatever the new term would be) someone if they don't fit the morals or aims of the chapter after they've been bid but before initiation?!?!?!?!?!

I'm curious as to how this would work, if it is discussable here. Speaking only for my own sorority, I know that after we bid someone, they are voted upon twice as to whether they can continue to be a new member.... I thought all sororities worked like this. Help me ou!!!

Ginger...normally, when a New Member gets a bid she's pretty much in, unless she does something really bad, in which case she could be asked to depledge. I've never seen it happen, though, and I don't think you can have a New Member depledge simply because she doesn't "fit" as well with the sorority as was originally thought.

Good to know!

I always like to learn more about the workings of NPCs!

I have to agree with Ginger, if a girl isn't working out, you as memebers of the sorority she's trying to join, should be able to change your mind about letting her in. My sorority thankfully, has this option. If the girl pledging has the right to discontinue her process, than we feel its our right as well to discontinue her from it. Its like when you work for a certain company. Most places have an "at-will" clause saying that you have the right to terminate yourself without any reason, just like the company.

Of course in the situation of de-pledging someone, you would have a reason, and you would let that girl know.

We've had simlar situations where a girl or two come out for us and just show that rah-rah personality that everyone is looking for, than down the line into the pledging process, they start to show there true colors....they don't want to do com. service, or study hours, or they are more intrested in frat guys then the reason being in a sorority...this gives us the chance to see what type of members they will be once they become a sister. We've gotten rid of some girls before they could cause chaos in the sorority...I know because after saying good-bye to them, they went and pledged another sorority, and I've heard the stories of how hard these girls are to handled from the sisiters in that org.

I think if your sorority/chapter doesn't allow you to do this, than maybe this is something you should look into...that is if you are able to change that rule.

pledging should be a period where everyone gets to feel out each other....if the girl thinks she belongs regardless of her actions, than the org is made to suffer because you can't let her go unless she does something outrageous...of course by then, its too late.. her damage is done to your sorority and others might also know about it.

As far as I know, you can de-pledge someone. Granted it can't be for something really minute like "You looked at me wrong", but it can be done.

I know that we used to blackball - our marshal showed us the old container used to do that one time in chapter.

We had a situation last year where a particular New Member wasn't really someone we wanted in our sorority - and she had seemed like such a great girl during Recruitment, I preffed her and LOVED her and was so happy to see her on Bid Day - there wasn't anything huge, but a bunch of sisters didn't want her to be a Kappa. When some other sisters and I took our concerns to the New Member Educator and then the President, we were kind of brushed off - like "well, we can't really do anything now, she's staying." Maybe we do have a de-pledging procedure, but if we do it was never presented as an option to the chapter - we were just told to have her big sister talk to her about her actions...

I'm not sure this is true of all chapters in my organization, but I do remember something that happened when I was a pledge. We had a pledge in my pledge class who not only showed her true colors after getting her bid, but was someone whom every pledge and sister had major problems with. Words cannot even describe this girl and the things she did that reflected poorly on our organization!
Anyhow, I think I remember someone saying that if you get called before Chapter Relations 3 times during your pledge period you are dismissed from the chapter and not initiated. I remember older sisters crying at this girls initiation because she only got sent to CR twice and was able to initiate.
Thankfully the girl left after freshman year!

If a new member is going to be destructive to a chapter, I think that it is a valid reason to depledge them. If someone is so troublesome, I suggest you contact your advisor and Headquarters immediately.

Back to the topic at hand, I am not sure of how this new member was rude to one of your initiated sisters. If she asked about not going to the second floor of a fraternity house, I think it is a legitimate question and an opportunity for the chapter to open a dialogue as ilovemyglo illustrated. If there is something more serious about her conduct, discuss it with the NM educator/trainer and her big sister. Good luck!

I am not sure of the exact procedures of things.. but I know of an incidence...

we had a new member who was not working out and instead of de-pledging her we told her that we did not feel like at this time so she could be initiated (not sure of the exact wording). SHe was told that she could continue as a new member and go through the new member process with the next class. She ended up deciding it wasnt for her after conversations i believe...


I feel that the week process is not long enough to see someone's true colors. I feel that if you find out that the girl will only cause problems in the future she should not be iniated. I think go through with it will only cause more problems. Each member has a responsibilty to live up to the standards of the sorority and I dont feel like it is to much to ask for..


just my opinion

Why do you have a rule you're not allowed on the second floor? That's where my room is! :D

Yay 3 year old bump.

Most sororities frown upon their members doing the walk of shame in the morning.

And most fraternity members adore it.

I'm not completely up on the rules of 2006, but I know we definitely depledged women (or urged them to depledge) who would NOT fit in with our sisterhood. Just off the top of my head, I can think of three.

When I was in school, a PNM didn't just have to be voted on to become a New Member, but also to be initiated, too. Is that the same?

No. At least, not for us. If we offer her a bid, the only way she's not going to be initiated is if she drops on her own free will. Though its probably POSSIBLE, I doubt it's likely in a 5-8 week period that someone would do something so bad that we would follow the process we would have to follow to suspend an initiated member - via chapter vote, advisor recommendation or Area facilitator recommendation, etc.

We've never had to vote on a NM being initiated, but two ways she wouldn't be initiated is if she didn't pass her written test or if she didn't take care of her financial obligations. I've never seen a NM NOT pass her test, but I've seen girls held over/dropped because they couldn't pay fees.

Remember, these/this person was offered a bid, not a guarentee that they will be Sisters.

If there is a problem with an individual, then get rid of her asap.

If not, you will have more problems than you want.

This is a bigger organization than just a new person, they do not control the whole.

nope.

My chapter cancelled two new uninitiated members when I was in school. There was a third who came very close, was held over, initiated, and then the following semester had to be cancelled. I understand that sometimes girls we don't feel are a fit slip through, but in a way I am glad we can't arbitrarily cancel members without due process. I think the bad seeds have a way of causing hell and then "weeding" themselves out. Members like that don't tend to last very long.

You'd put all the votes in a box and (depending on the rules) if even one was a no then said pledge would be dropped. But the vote was anonymous that way. At least this is how I understand it.

I've seen it in the movies-- each member has one white ball and one black ball. As new members names come up for voting, each member slips a ball into the box as it goes around the room. White is pro, Back is con. If there's a black ball, the pledge's membership is terminated.

I'm sure everyone does it differently-- ie: number of black balls needed to depledge, etc.

Allow me to consult my scholarly sources...

Taken literally, blackballing is where you can either put a white marble (or no marble) in a box as a "yes" vote for a member of an org. to get in/initiate. If one person drops a black marble in the box, that person is considered "blackballed" and is not allowed membership/initiation. It's an anonymous voting procedure.

And let me just say, I hope that Sweet Valley High #4 -- "Power Play" stands up not only as the seminal work of literature for our generation, but as the main reference for anything and everything sorority related.

Speaking for my org only.... There may not be a way to "black ball" but if a new member is doing things that are totally against standards, new members are held to teh same standards as initiated sisters, so if they are doing somethin against our policies or regulations, they are called to standards board, and go through our judicial process.

I actually saw the box when we ceremoniously burned it (after cleaning out a lot of really old things from our storage compartment)! The box was rectangular, and hinged in the middle, like a picnic basket. When you opened both sides, you saw a little divider between the two sides, with a hole in it.

In the one side would be all of the white balls and all of the black balls (there was never just one, only because if it was gone before someone wanted to use it, they'd already know the outcome). When it came time to vote, a sister would open up the side with the marbles, and put either a white or a black ball through the hole in the divider. No one else could see how someone voted.

Whoever would be tabulating the votes only needed to count the black balls, since they stuck out from the white balls.

When I was in school, if there was a vote not to initiate a New Member, there had to be a sort of hearing with the Advisors as to why. It was never a whimsical choice, it was something of a much more serious matter.

Ask one of your officers. At least have her big talk to her and tell her what is and isn't acceptable and explain to her WHY it's important to uphold y'all's standards. My mom is a different sorority than me but she always told me that one pledge class can change a whole chapter, because it only takes a few members to ruin a chapter's reputation. And an "old girl" in my chapter reminded me that people at a party don't say, "I saw Susie Q. drunk and hooking up with this guy at the party." They'll say, "I saw that Alpha Gam being a slut at the party." Remind her that her sorority is a part of who she is on campus, and they are a part of her. If she doesn't like having someone in authority over her and doesn't want to be held accountable for her actions, tell her that maybe sorority life isn't for her.

It has been my general experience on my campus and in my own organization that a bid is not necessarily a guarantee of initiation. I know that my organization, as well as others at my school, go through intense deliberation before extending bids, as well as before determining which new members will become sisters. Of course, I don't think any organization would take the decision to drop a new member lightly; while a bid isn't a guarantee of membership, it is still something significant. When new members have been dropped on my campus, it is usually for something pretty major, be it some kind of drama, inappropriate behavior, inadequate application to the new member process, or general discord between the new member and the active sisters. I think that if once a new member begins her process and it is revealed that she is not right for that chapter, for whatever reason, it becomes a significant problem. Much better to identify and combat the problem ahead of time, instead of initiating this member and having to deal with these issues permanently.

We can, there is a process, just as for initiated members. It's important that the process involves educating a new member as to our standards, policies and procedures. Is it fair to get rid of someone for doing something that nobody told them was inappropriate? And that's all that really needs to be said on a public internet message board :)

In my organization, our new members must complete a "Pledge Program" which requires a certain level of attendance to meetings and participation in activities. If the new member does not meet those requirements, their acceptance into the organization is jeapordized - for those who do meet the requirements, there has to be something significant in order to prevent their acceptance, like disrespect to the members or the organization itself.

I know the thread is three years old, but I hope that everything went well, and is currently going well!

Check your organization's constitution, and your chapter bylaws. In our case...well, back in the day, anyway...there was a vote to initiate. If the pnm does not get an approving vote, she can be held over to repeat the PNM period. If she is still not initiated, her one-year pledge (according to NPC rules, remember) expires and she can pledge a different NPC sorority.
In any case, don't rely on what somebody tells you...go read your own rules.