Trouble Brewing at William & Mary
 

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-75...dlines-topnews


W&M officials investigate charge of sexual assault

WILLIAMSBURG -- A 16-year-old Middle Peninsula girl says a College of William and Mary student raped her at a fraternity party Saturday night.

Suspect she thought her parents wouldn't find out.

My friends and I used to go to a lot of parties and street dances at Ohio State while we were still in high school without our parents knowledge.

This really does leave you in a quandry, though, doesn't it?

What was she thinking?

What was he thinking? (Well, maybe we know the answer to that one)

What was the woman who invited her upstairs for a drink thinking?

Was anybody thinking?

And after considering all of the damage and potential damage to everyone directly involved, what is the fraternity chapters liability in this?

This is ugly.

I really hate when these things come up. Even if the truth becomes clear, everyone ends up paying a price. :(

i dont feel sorry for her at all...i mean, first of all, she is 16, why is she out at a frat house drinking? i had plenty of other things to do for fun, rather then go drinking at 16. then she goes off with a guy to his dorm? very dumb

she obviously put herself in this position...now i am not gonna say she deserved it, because then most of you will click that little option that says "report post to moderator" but i will say this...she had no business being there, or around older people...i actually feel sorry for the guy, im sure the girl knew what she was getting herself into when she went off with him, then changed her mind some point after...it sucks he is gonna get a rape charge against him because of this dumb little girl.

Second! She most likely lied about her age. That happens. But of course you know the end of the story, everyone blames the fraternity and the university has no other option but closing down the chapter. :rolleyes:

Sixteen year old girls are known for doing dumb things. And I sincerely believe No means No!!!
But I will concede that she shouldn't have put herself in such a compromising position, but once again she was sixteen... It is like they are retelling a classic rape tale. And why didn't somebody lead her away, instead of toward, that situation? And I am curious how he held her down, at the same time as putting on a condom??? Not that it is not possible. But it makes you wonder. And also why did he stop when she asked him to, but not before. And most importantly why do we have minors drinking in the houses??!!! I know this is not the only house that this goes on in.
I know I am repeating myself. But no matter what really happened no one will come out of this unscathed. :(

I smell something.

I cannot believe you would actually think something like this. She knew what she was getting herself into?!? What?!

A girl going to a guy's room during a party does NOT give him the right to have sex with her, and that seems to be what you are saying here. And in any case, even if prior consent to sex is given - after one party wants to stop, it's rape if you don't stop. Even if the two parties have had sex six billion times - if someone says that magic no, you have to stop or it is rape.

Blah blah blah. Bitch bitch bitch.

I'm going to be the first female to express her dissenting opinion.

I agree with champ and queequek. The chick probably lied about her age because most normal fraternity men would not want to touch jailbait with a ten foot pole.

Crappy stuff happens to dumb people who decide to do dumb things.

This situation reminds me of that episode of 90210 where that high school girl accused David Silver of rape. He didn't know that she wasn't of age and it turns out she was just lying about the shit to get her parents' attention.

I'm tired of this he said/she said bullshit. I don't condone rape, but then again I've seen a lot of innocent guys get accused of things that they didn't do. I don't think it's fair to just simply take her word for it just because that's the customary thing to do.

They don't know what happened yet, and they don't know if it's true.

Ok, flame away because I know some of you are ready to have my head on a platter. :rolleyes:

yes. like i said before...my sympathy goes out to the guy and his family.

i agree with you 150%.

is it, a counter-suit?

While the report is of course in Big Bold Letters, it is "News" :rolleyes:

Back in the GOOD OLD DAYS, most high school girls were built more like boys, no chests.

But as we can all attest to today, well the difference is evident.

This little 16 year old girl reminds me of Dean Wormers little (HA) daughter. I hope there is a very full investigation into this.

Why was she there? What were her parents doing? Did she present herself as being of age?

Were there any checks and balances by the Fraternity?

Many questions need to be asked and checked. Reeks of a smaller Air Force Acadamy situation. No Greeks involved in that mess!:)

I hope time proves what really happened that night and the truth comes out. If true, I dont feel the Chapter should be booted, but the individual punished. If not true, there is a law about filing a false police report.

Parents should be held more accountable for siblings actions. That would put a lot of this nonsense to an end.

was the guy a fraternity brother? The atricle doesn't make it clear if it even happened at their house.

I actually agree with some of what Tom Earp said. ;)

First of all, I believe we all agree that no 16-year-old, whether the person is male or female, should be at a college/university party of any kind, fraternity or not. I also believe what some others were saying that the minute she said no, that meant for him to stop. Also, someone should have been more responsible and pulled her away from the situation before anything happened. We all know 16-year-olds go in packs whereever they go so I can bet money that at least one of her high school friends was there at that party with her. Even at that, a college female should have known to pull her away from the situation.

Secondly, rape is never the victim's fault, EVER. Even if the girl walked in naked (which is extreme, I know), she did not deserve to be raped nor did she ask for it. Even if a girl walks in with a short skirt and a low neck shirt, she didn't contribute to the problem by wearing that type of clothing. This guy should be punished for the rape, not the whole fraternity. On the other hand, the fraternity needs to rethink their "security" issues when it comes to minors. They just need better checks of who's coming in and out.

Thirdly, parents need to be more responsible with their children (and yes, a 16-year-old is still a child). They can't be willy-nilly with where they let their kids go. Parents need to keep in touch with other kids parents. Call the parents of the person your child says they're going to be with. That way you know if anything is on the down-low. You HAVE to keep your kids safe. That is your #1 priority as parents. Your job and social activities are bleak in comparison to the responsibility you bear as a parent. 9 times out of 10 you choose to be a parent so you need to be able to take care of that child! That means checking and rechecking with your child and their friends.

No I am not a parent but I know that children are a major undertaking and you have to be extremely responsible when having children. They will be with you 24/7 for 18 years of your and their life and you have to be there. You have to give 110% effort all of the time, even when you don't think you can or you don't want to.

OK that's my two cents on the situation!

You're right, although it does say, "A party at Lamda Chi Alpha," or something very similar. That inplies, along with the fact that the assault occurred (upstairs) in someone's room, that they were in some type of fraternity living unit.

There are a few questions in my mind, like someone who asked how the alleged rapist could hold a girl down while putting on a condom (although it's possible that she was too scared to try to resist or get away). Second, when she yelled "Stop" and he sat up, how much time does it take to dress in a hurry and get away -- and what was he doing while she was dressing for her "escape"? Was he to afraid at that point to try to keep her there?

There are some unanswered questions.

I CAN understand how this girl might end up at the party without her parents knowledge. I used to do it all the time. And, when I was in school there were a number of high school workshops (especially during summer session) where young students are in from all over the state, and one one occassion a few high school girls, looking for beer, ended up at the house where a number of Delts were living for the summer. Nothing happened that I know of in that instance -- but it certainly could have.

Still, as I mentioned in my earlier post, a lot of people weren't thinking. Including the victim.

Finally, while this sounds like a clear sexual assault, and I do believe that "no" always means no, I'm not quite ready to say that in some very minute minority of cases, the victim (female or male) can't bring part of the problem on themselves.

The comment about walking into a party naked and not "asking for it" is absurd -- unless that person in mentally ill. I'm for prosecuting sex offenders to the fullest extent of the law, but reality has to come into the picture somewhere.

Does that mean they "deserve" to be raped. Of course not, but they have actively contributed to the problem. If this young woman was raped, as it appears she was, her reported actions leading up to the assault certainly didn't help her situation any.

edit

By the way, what the heck is the deal with the other woman who invited the victim upstairs for a drink. Was she part of a conspiracy? Had she left? Why? If she didn't leave, why didn't she help?

More questions.

I am actually at home right now and saw the news reports about this last night. The tv reports made it seem like the incident occurred at the fraternity house.

The news reporters had footage from outside the various houses. On one station that taped the Lambda Chi Alpha house while on another station.. they kept showing sigma pi letters which made me think when I first heard the story that it occurred there. Which is kind of very bad reporting on the stations part. Though as you know to the average person greeks are all the same to them..

Ah, the news hounds, of Baskerville!:(

I do not care if it is the XYZ, ABC, Org. it will reflect upon All of us!:o

Remeber, Animal House and Frat Boys were not at the same Schools or Greek Orgs. Just Scripting as usual!:rolleyes:

Makes better copy!

I agree 100% with everything you just said!!!!!

OTW is right on the money with her post!

And we wonder why the majority of rapes aren't reported, so we'll never know the true rate of forcible sexual assault in this country. It's true that she shouldn't have been at the party--but haven't we all been places we should not have been? True, many men are falsely accused--but does that cheapen the very real accusations of many more young women?

Delt, if he has enough experience putting a condom on, he can do it with one hand very quickly. It seems as if she would have been able to get away, but experience with assault victims tends to point to the fact that they're paralyzed with fear.

If this gets to trial, regardless of the outcome, she will be villified and made to look like a common whore--even if it comes out that it was rape in the purest since of the word. Which is a sad commentary on the state of the American legal system.

She did not ask to be raped but both her and her parents should be lashed 5 times on the bottom for being irresponsible.

Now you say that some men are falsely accused and act as if it's no big deal. One of the main reasons I chose not to go to your school is the free-flowing sentiment that screwed Adam Lack so badly.

-Rudey
--Already this guy is villified regardless of whether the charges are true or not. The girl isn't. Look what they did to Michael Jackson :(

Since the Adam Lack case was well before I got to Brown, I don't know enough about it to make assumptions. I bet another reason you chose not to go is because you didn't get in.

Uhm no sweet cheeks, got in.

Now HYP is a different scenario; but if you'd like to talk about that as opposed to the topic, which you couldn't muster enough thought on, I suppose we could.

-Rudey
--Bake me a cake woman!!!

. . . and, under your weltanschauung, he is subject to the same villification via accusation, even before a single word is spoken in trial.

Quaint.

ETA: Nice ad hominem attack there, chuckles - maybe you should have taken a logic/forensics class? I mean, it would have been pass/fail anyway . . .

I guess it's possible for a 19 year old (I think) who was probably drinking to do that -- but I wouldn't trust the outcome. Maybe that's why it "broke."

Your point about being "frozen" is well taken -- I mentioned that possibility, but I still would ask the question.

So, he stopped when he asked her to the second time, according to the article. Maybe that was the first time. Maybe she's doing so she won't be called a slut. Innocent untill proven guilty, unless the case pisses people off, I guess.

Did I say that? Nope. I would like to believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. In sexual assault cases, that is rarely the case--on either side.

I think your cheap shots against my alma mater are damned funny. If you can't laugh about yourself, who can you laugh about?

Wow.

OK - If I say that the girl is not a cheap whore if the guy is found guilty, does that invalidate your argument?

Of course not . . .

The point is that, by flipping your viewpoint from before to coddle the accused rather than the accuser, we come to the conclusion that he is being made out to be an absolute monster by a public that chooses not to wait until the results of a trial to determine guilt.

What is missed, of course, is that this MIGHT BE THE CASE - he might be an inhuman beast, just as the accuser might actually be full of complete crap.

Regardless, you stating that you personally don't feel this way carries no weight - against the tide of public opinion, as YOU introduced it, it is an insignificant view. You wanted to discuss macro-phenomena, so I did just that.

Your point was so salient that it need not be repeated above - but you did, and of course you're right: the actual 'results' of the trial have little to do with how some people will view those involved.

So what, exactly, is your point? Can you prove the causitive link between public opinion and lack of rape reporting? If so, why can't you prove a link between public opinion of rapists, and decreasing numbers of rapes? At best, it's an oversimplification, and at worst, an abysmal post hoc fallacy.

I appreciate your compassion, but I think you're oversimplifying, and it's decidedly (and I'll posit, inappropriately) one-sided.

Hey, laugh it up - you decided to flex the ol' academic muscle here. If you want to turn the thread into a scholastic pissing contest, I'm down - just bring the A-game, because all you know is what people on here show you.

Don't assume you're speaking to idiots.

-RC
--Let's see those SATs and SAT II: Chemistrys!

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LOOKS LIKE THE TRUCK JUST RAN SOMEONE OVER