I think this world needs Jesus!!!

I think the world most definitely does need Jesus but we need to be sensitive to what people here on earth want/need! Some women need this pill/want it for reasons we could never fathom!! I am not sure how it will react with your body but I am sure it was well researched. And though many women are striving to have children (I am one - not yet, can explain personally)
Anyway, though some of us are fighting to have children there are some women that are not ready and we have to afford them the choice to do as they choose. As long as they are not hurting you or interfering with your life then I say more power to the women that are brave enough to use this drug.

Without getting to political you can tell I am pro-choice ... and before an uproar is started on the board, I do want to say that women should be responsible also!!! Don't ever lay down with a guy an expect not to wake up pregnant ... that is not how we are made, no drug/condom is 100% so of course abstinence is the key but we all know that incest, and rape and other such atrocities occur which is why I am pro choice!!!!

I can understand using the pill for such atrocities. I cannot see using the pill for carelessness. Oooops I forgot to use a condom, damn I pregnant. This world is going nowhere fast. I agree we need Jesus!

[This message has been edited by Lynn Luckett (edited October 03, 2000).]

I couldn't agree more... this Sunday at church we discussed this same issue... America's approving another method to kill unwanted babies, What happened to "One nation under GOD"? every day new measures are being approved to restrict and basically censor the Christian, now we approve of aborting babies and homosexuality... what have we come to?


Dazed and confused about the state of America and the world...

Diva_56

I don't think aborting unborn children and someone's sexuality are in the same sphere...

And, IMO, the world, this nation, nor any people have EVER truly been in obedience of or under God...

I too am pro-choice (although abortion is not a personal option), but I do not approve of the use of this pill. I think that the counseling and support that women receive at an abortion clinic is sorely needed. Many women decide not to go through with the abortion after hearing of alternative options. Some just decide that they cannot deal with the grief and emotions that often follow an abortion. Allowing women to just pop a pill is just way too impulsive and irresponsible for me. The popping of a pill (birth control) should have have occurred much earlier in the scenario.

Well said Discogoddess (as usual):

Someone's sexuality and aborting unborn children are not in the same sphere at all.

I myself am pro-choice. I don't know if I personally would be able to have an abortion, but it is not up to me, the government, anybody's religious/spiritual beliefs, etc. to dictate to anyone whether they should bring a child into the world.

This is so political...I can't even discuss all of my feelings about abortion right now.

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

------------------
"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

for the record, the RU 486 pill is not to be administered beyond the 1st trimester. secondly, those who wish to take this are to see their doctor several times over a 2 week period. this is not taken like an aspirin.
counseling will be made available since this is a method of abortion. those who are not pro-choice should note that the no. of abortions are going down. just b/c this method is now available doesn't mean there will be more.

Thank you for the additional information WenD08. I also heard on the news this morning that not just any physician can prescribe the pill. There are certain restrictions in place there as well.

IMO means... just asking I have seen the acronym before but not sure of the original text... thanks

IMO=In My Opinion.

And just riffing off of another topic (We Really Can Make a Difference), I think that the choice to have children should be something entered into reverently and seriously, not because a woman feels she has no other choice, or that she "wasn't raised that way," etc. The resulting children of unwanted pregnancies often find themselves dependent on unequipped, uneducated, unloving people who call themselves parents. Which is the greater evil? And who among us is prepared to assume the burden of raising these same children, even when we didn't birth them? I try to remember to keep these questions before me while contemplating the abortion issue.



[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited October 03, 2000).]

Thanks for enlightening me WenD08. I was not aware that counseling and medical care were measures taken with the dispensing of this pill. However, I still have major problems with the concept. Forgive my ignorance, but, without being too graphic, maybe someone can answer this for me. What happens to the fetus after the pill is taken. Doesn't it have to be "removed" somehow?

I too am pro-choice, and even though this new pill has been passed, I don't think that many people know too much about the whole process of what to do when taking the pill.

This pill is an alternative to abortion, but in cases when the pill DOES NOT work, a clinical abortion must be administered. When the pill is taken and is effective, the fetus is expelled from the body in the form of a miscarriage-heavy bleeding,cramping, but you must go to the hospital to have the mucus and lining removed from the body (I hope that I'm not being too graphic). Then there is always the chance of infection previously, there is still no answer to the taking place, and like it was mentioned long-term effects that it has on the body.

Just a little info to help shed some light on this topic...

Classy_Diva5

Hello Ladies:

I hope no one minds me responding to this topic.

SkeeBunny, your question is a very good one.

RU486 is an artificial steroid that interferes with the action of progesterone, a hormone crucial to the early progress of
pregnancy. Progesterone stimulates the proliferation of the uterine lining which nourishes the developing child. It also
suppresses normal uterine contractions which could dislodge the child implanted and growing on the wall of the mother's womb.

RU486 fills the chemical receptor sites normally reserved for progesterone, but does not transmit the progesterone signal.
Sensing what appears to be a drop in progesterone, usually a sign that pregnancy has not occurred, a woman's body shuts down
the preparation of the uterus and initiates the normal menstrual process. The child, deprived of necessary nutrients, starves to
death. The baby detaches and is swept out of the body along with the decayed uterine lining.

So Ru-486 actually preempts the gestation of a fertilized egg. What comes out of a woman's body is typically similar to her menstrual period.

As we all know the most pertinent argument in the pro-life/pro-choice debate is when ACTUALLY does a life begin? And whether or not it depends on the viability of the fetus.
Or the stage at which the fetus can survive on its own outside the womb. During the stage in which the RU-486 is administered, the fertilized egg is not larger than a period on a page.

Despite the seemingly easy nature of discarding something so "small" there tends to be severe cramping and bleeding that may last for as long as 30 days. Women continue to see a physician for follow-ups to check for infection and other complications.

I hope this helps. I apologize if it was too harsh and cold sounding, also.

PEACE

Reguardless fo whether they are in the same sphere or not... Aborting a baby (killing a fetus in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, trimester) is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG! I am so tired of society making an excuse for this crime against humanity. I am pro life... when it comes to a woman making a decision about "Her Body" according to the government, she has the right to kill another human being because it's inconvient for her? It is really sad that women THINK thay have a CHOICE in how a baby's life will end. Get Jesus and realize that all LIFE IS PRECIOUS!

Psalms 22:9-10
"Yet you brought me out of the
womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.
From my mothers womb you have
been my God."

If God thinks so highly of David's life even IN THE WOMB, how in the world does another human have the audacity to think that they HAVE THE RIGHT to kill a baby in the womb?
Respectfully...Get a clue!

Just some truth from the Diva!


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In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

[This message has been edited by Diva_56 (edited October 03, 2000).]

Diva:

IMO, abortion is a very complicated issue. Abortion is not an isolated event, nor is it a self-contained phenomenon. Abortion is part of something more systemic. Maybe what people need is Jesus (or Allah, or Buddha, or the Creator), but who can say? And just putting that out there does not solve the problem.

I am more than respectful of your spiritual path and beliefs, so please don't take this the wrong way, but quoting scripture will not solve all of the issues that a person inevitably has to consider when talking about abortion. The reality is, a more holistic and complete sexual education is needed to educate everyone (especially women) about their bodies, their sexuality (not just the act of sex), the choices available to them, the consequences of certain choices, ways to protect themselves, ways to be healthy sexual beings, ways to be spiritual and sexual.

I think one of the key problems with abortion is that lack of effective sexual education. Perhaps if we had better sexual education, we wouldn't have as much pregnancy or abortion. Perhaps if we didn't live in a culture that is simultaneously oversexed (we use sex to present/sell everything!) and sexually repressed, pregnancy and abortion wouldn't be such problems either. Just a few theories.

Don't get me started...I could talk about this for hours. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I don't think folks on this forum are saying it's necessarily right to abort an unborn child. I think they are saying the problem is more complex than that. For me, I don't think you could do away with RU-486 or legal abortion in general, and think that abortion or the issues surrounding it would just disappear.

Abortion is not the cause of the problems; rather, it is just the result of the interaction between our cultural and social belief systems and customs.

Once again, I mean no disrespect to you. I do think a spiritual foundation is needed. It's just not all that's needed, IMO. I respect your views. And I must apologize for the long post; abortion is a heated topic for me.

I thought I would just drop my two cents.

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.


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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited October 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited October 03, 2000).]

RU-486
 

What do you think about the FDA approval of RU-486 (French Abortion Pil).

-Teresa

I think that we may be opening up a can of worms. This may lower the unwanted baby population, but what long term affects will it have on our bodies. If a person is 4 or 5 months will the pill be successful in aborting the baby?

Conskeeted Skee Wee

Diva_56:

I'm sorry you feel it necessary to get angry to make your point. I have a clue, and an opinion, just as you do. Truth is, in this world, a subjective reality, and I don't think by telling people to "get Jesus," or "get a clue," that you are persuading those with opposing or unclear views to consider your side.

BrandNubian: I thought your last post was thoughtful and thought-provoking.

Sitting in church last night (REVIVAL WEEK) my teacher mentioned how the bible is sometimes taken out of context. Diva_56, I see your point and I know exactly what the word says also, but I must say this is your opinion and interpretation of the word. I am not for killing "JUST BECAUSE" but seriously you need to think about the women in the situation. Would you like to be "so called inconvenienced" if you were raped and then impregnated??

Just questions and opinions ... we all have them!!

Discogoddess:

Thank you. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

DIVA:


I too would like to know how you feel impregnation by rape and/incest should be handled. I just know you can't POSSIBLY be saying a woman should HAVE to have a baby under those horrible conditions - that just CAN'T be what you think. Maybe I misunderstood you. I am not trying to be rude, but, I am seriously curious to UNDERSTAND what you are saying. Is that what you believe? And if so - how would you handle the descision if your daughter (real or hypothetical) were RAPED and impregnated?

Just some questions.

I was going to ask the SAME question.

What if a woman has been brutally raped and the attacker impregnates her??

What about a young woman who doesn't find out she's HIV positive until she gets pregnant and there is a likely chance she'll pass the disease to her baby?

What about a child who is 13 years old and gets pregnant by mistake because she didn't know any better?

For me, personally, abortion is not a choice for me. But, there are some women out there who get a "bad deal"... What about them?

This topic is so complicated. I am pro-life and don't believe that unborn babies should be killed. It's hard for me to understand how Christians can be pro-choice. I am christian and am BY NO MEANS perfect. Trust me, the Lord has A LOT of work to do with me so I am not trying to take the holier-than-thou road because, quite truthfully, I just don't qualify. However, I happen to know that the Lord does not make mistakes. And if you trust in Him and His Word than some of the reasons stated for having an abortion
don't measure up. Take this scenario, a teenage girl and boyfriend are having an intimate relationship and she gets pregnant. She has no job, no education, and her boyfriend is a striaght BUM. Should she get an abortion? I am taking an educated guess that most people who said they were pro-choice would say that she should have an abortion, but how is that fair to the unborn child? How is it fair that this baby can never experience life? Alright, she won't have much money, will have to wear second hand clothes, and might possibly go to bed hungry some nights. Can you honestly say that the child would have been better off dead? I know so many people who grew up deprived, some were abused- physically and verbally, and some grew up dead broke the conditions were truly deplorable. But, they grew up- and learned from there past and are going on with healthy lives. Lives that might not have come to be if they were aborted because the family didn't have money, or the mother was too young with no education, or the mother was forced to have the baby. I am not saying that all will turn out alright. But they at least need that chance. This is long and I am sorry, but I would not have right if I just passed by tne topic without responding.
I don't see people who choose to have abortions any different than I see myself who is "shacking" with my boyfriend. None of us are perfect and none will ever be. We all have things we need to work on. All I am saying is that we will never know what will be because we can't see the bigger picture, we have to trust and believe in God. And for those who say that it is more complicated than that (trusting and believing in God), I don't know what else to say to you.

------------------
"Trust in the Lord God With All Thine Heart, Lean not unto your own understanding..."

Me By Nature:

Just for clarification...are you saying a woman SHOULD be made to have a baby that is the result of rape or incest? I don't see where you answered that. I do see however where you talked of it not being fair for a child to be deprived of a life. Technically -it is not a child during that time and from what I have read - has no concept of pain or deprivation. There are already so many deprived, unhappy, uncared for, unprovided for, unwanted, horribly treated, misdirected children in the world because of inadequate parents. Why bring more into the world to suffer. You stated that GOD does not make mistakes, but dear, GOD gave man and women free choice. WHICH MEANS - maybe GOD isn't DIRECTLY involved with the process. (don't you guys jump on me - I said directly involved, rather than not involved) People are allowed to choose to have unprotected sex, to rape, to commit incest, to be careless, and to use defective birth control. That does not mean a child should have to suffer through a life of possible hardship because of irresponsible behavior or unforseen circumstances.
BUT............

I am interested in your answer to the first question I asked. I REALLY REALLY AM

Sorry for the long post - but I just know too many people who have children that they resent, degrade, and mistreat the children they were forced to have and/or chose to have simply becuase they were taught abortions were wrong.

Question: How hard is it for a 12 year old CHILD to love a HIV infected baby that is the product of rape?

I don't mean to start an uproar but there is a saying, "Do not pass judgement on.....".
Another thing, the word, "abortion" is not mentioned or given reference to in the bible. It's your choice to take it out of text.
As someone who is not only pro-choice(BY THE WAY, I think most people on earth would consider themselves, Pro-Life), I attend conferences and lobby to make sure that reproductive choices are a right and available for all women, regardless of color, class, religion, etc., (health clinics, gyn. exams at low cost or free, birth control, and yes abortions).
Through my research, I've found out that a lot of Anti-Choice groups make it seem like abortions are done by the bad teens, hookers, loose women, and those other bad people. And these types of people are having this procedure done late in the pregnacy, when in fact, "1.4 percent occur in second half of pregnancy usually when there is severe complication"(mother may die, fetus developed with no brain or organs missing, two heads, etc. (Journal of the Amer. Medical Association, Aug. 26, 1998.) When in fact, 55% of these responsible, usually educated, well incomed women already have at least one child.
Abortions are not dangerous(fewer than 1 out of 100,000 have complications(Journal of Amer. Medical Ass., Dec. 9, 1992) and it DOES NOT cause psychological damage or moral decline.
I have many issues that would be a website in itself but I will say this. All women that go through this are not bad people. And some Christian groups go to far by claiming "PRO-LIFE", then shooting doctors(Barnett Slepian in NY), nurses, and volunteers.("From 1984-2000, around 2500 acts of violence were committed against health care workers that provided abortions", National Abortion Federation). Not to mention, some of these same groups that stand out side of these clinics, WILL NOT OFFER TO ADOPT these poor children(especially if they are of color. Let's face the truth.)
If these groups succeed in making abortions illegal(which this will actually kill women, because abortions are going to happen anyway), the next thing that is going to be fought against is your birth control pills and shots.
I hope this large(but little) bit of information will open your eyes a little. I apologize for the length.

I was typing so fast, let me make sure I make myself clear.
ONLY 1.4 of abortions happen in the second half of pregnancy.
The women are just like you and I. Women who seek these services are not always loose women, etc. Most of them(55%) already have at least one child, are well educated, or have a decent job.
I lobby for other things too and this information is usually provided by the American Medical Association Journal, The National Abortion Federation, and regular stats provided on the internet.

Ania....

I fully AGREE with you lady. I hope you post more information on this topic soon.

Whew! Hot topic!! Like someone else said, abortion is a complex topic with no easy answers--especially if you have an ounce of compassion in your body. That being said, as a Christian, I believe that God is involved with EVERYTHING that happens in this world--the good the bad and the ugly. Does that means that he caused a 13 year old girl to get molested by her HIV infected uncle? Does it mean that he 'caused' this girl to get pregnant and also infected with HIV? No, I don't believe that God 'caused' these things to happen, but I do believe that he allowed them to happen (look at the situation with Job). I also believe that His ways are not my ways and that I cannot question or try to change what He has allowed to happen. The more I learn about His Holy word, the more pro-life I become. I still sometimes have a hard time reconciling this with my flesh, but I can't see where the Bible would condone this. That being said, if I, or my (future) daughter was raped and conceived, I would ask the Lord to give me the strength to carry the baby to term. I would also seek his guidance about raising the child. I firmly believe that if He led me to raise the child he would give me everything I needed to do it with out bitterness.

There was an e-mail going around a while back that told of the situations that several pregnant women were in. All told of horrible situations, no father, teen aged mother, rape, diseases, poverty, etc.--all things we use today as 'good reasons' for abortion. It asked the question: "Would you advise this woman to have an abortion?" Then came the 'punch line'. All of the children grew up to be accomplished leaders and history makers that the world would be deprived of had the women done the "sensible thing" and aborted their babies.

I think the best thing that any of us can do, no matter what side of the fence we stand on, is to do everything in our power to reduce the need for abortions--be it by RU-486 or any other method. And, for those of us who are pro-life, we need to make sure we are doin more than just sitting on the sidelines tsk-tsking about the moral decline of our world and the need for "Jesus". We need to be showing folks the Jesus in us by mentoring teen mothers, lobbying for access to health care, low cost day care, etc.!

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited October 04, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited October 04, 2000).]

I have been trying very hard not to respond to this but I just can't help myself. I am most definitely pro-choice and yes I have had an abortion. To those of you who are wondering why am I putting my business out here on front street like this, it is because I would like to prevent others from following in my footsteps, and also to present the other side of this discussion.

The question was raised, "How can a woman be a Christian and be pro-choice?" Let me try to explain. I do not believe that abortion is right. In my situation it was the lesser of two options. I was not raped. I just was young and dumb where men are concerned. I have several reasons for choosing abortion instead of life, which I will not go into here.

I will not try to make abortion sound warm and fuzzy. Far from that, it was emotionally and physically painful. Afterwards I felt extremely guilty and as though I were unworthy of God's love. However, after much prayer I believe that God has forgiven me.
I do believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of our sins, and yes that includes abortions. Contrary to popular belief, having an abortion is not a "worse" sin than having premarital sex, lying, coveting another's spouse or any of the other 10 commandments.

This experience has opened my eyes as to why God wants us to wait until we are married to have sex. I honestly believe that God knows that it is in our best interest. Not that God is some omniscient prude trying to spoil our earthly fun. After coming to this realization I decided to become celibate and have been for the past 2 years.

If anyone wants to look down on me for the decision I have made, I welcome you to have an abortion rally in my front yard. But perhaps your time and energy would be better spent on preventing unwanted pregnancies from happening in the first place by educating our young girls about abstinence and birth control.

On a side note, I don't believe that God "caused" me to get pregnant. If that were the case then God also "caused" me to sin by having premarital sex. I believe Eclipse made a reference to Job. Job's afflictions were not the direct result of a sin he committed. My pregnancy was most definitely the direct result of my sin. I hope that sheds some light for you.

Peace and Blessings

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited October 04, 2000).]

Hello,
I must say that I have learned a great deal on this thread, but I do have a question. Are most abortion cases extreme cases? (for example: the 14 yr. old girl is molested by her HIV infested uncle) Is there a balance, or are most cases due to irresponsible people?

Icytre,

Most of the ladies that were in the waiting room with me were there because of irresponsible behavior, not rape or molestation. Off the top of my head I can remember one of the girls was White and had a Black boyfriend. He told that he liked her, but there was no way in Hell he was having a baby by a white girl. Another lady was there because she already had three children and didn't want anymore. Still, another lady was married, but she and her husband weren't ready to start a family. Some of the other girls were there because they were young teenagers whose mothers decided for them that they were not going to have children at such young ages.

I think that all the responses that have been posted about this subject were written by women. Any men out there with an opinion?

-Teresa

MIDWESTDIVA,
First let me give you a (((cyberhugg))) for being willing to share your testimony!! It takes a lot of courage, but as the word says "we overcome by the word of our testimony"!

You know, there are so many situations where I (and many others) have to say but for the grace of God, go I.

I do want to make comment on a couple of things you wrote (I've edited your original message above to include those points> )

You are 100% right is that the sin of premarital sex/abortion is no different from the many sins that I and every other Christian struggle with on a daily basis. It is a trick of the enemy to make us feel that we are unworthy of God's love!! My favorite song right now is "WE Fall Down" by Donnie McClurkin. Wow! That song ministers to me in so many different ways!! What a joy to know that when we fall (in what ever way) we can get back up again and the He forgives us of all our sins!!

As Christains we cannot judge another's sins, we just can't condone sin. Saying I don't condone a certain sin doesn't mean that I look down on a person who has committed the sin. I know that if all of my sins were out there for the whole world to see a whole lotta folks would be looking down on me!! I thank Him for His grace!!

Regarding my reference to Job...you are right, Job's afflictions were not because of his sin. I mentioned him because I wanted to show that although God did not cause the bad things to happen to Job, he did allow them to happen when He offered Job to satan and gave satan permission to bring all of the things he brought into his life.


I didn't mean to turn this into bible study! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace & Blessings to you all...
E.

Hey ladies I'm back...

First of all, I did not mean to insinuate that I was angry in my last post... I used caps and bold to hilight and intensify words... abortion is a very near and dear subject to me and and I will attempt to answer every question posed to me on the issue.
This will be a long post so I apologise beforehand...


Orignally quoted by BrandNubian

"IMO, abortion is a very complicated issue. Abortion is not an isolated event, nor is it a self-contained phenomenon. Abortion is part of something more systemic. Maybe what people need is Jesus (or Allah, or Buddha, or the Creator), but who can say? And just putting that out there does not solve the problem.

I am more than respectful of your spiritual path and beliefs, so please don't take this the wrong way, but quoting scripture will not solve all of the issues that a person inevitably has to consider when talking about abortion. The reality is, a more holistic and complete sexual education is needed to educate everyone (especially women) about their bodies, their sexuality (not just the act of sex), the choices available to them, the consequences of certain choices, ways to protect themselves, ways to be healthy sexual beings, ways to be spiritual and sexual.

I think one of the key problems with abortion is that lack of effective sexual education. Perhaps if we had better sexual education, we wouldn't have as much pregnancy or abortion. Perhaps if we didn't live in a culture that is simultaneously oversexed (we use sex to present/sell everything!) and sexually repressed, pregnancy and abortion wouldn't be such problems either. Just a few theories."



I agree that abortion isn't an isolated incident... It is a result of SIN in our lives... of course I am talking from a totally Christian viewpoint and I would think anyone that considers themself Christian would think the same thing according to the word of God. The reality is that people need Jesus and need to realize when you sin, there is cause and effect relationship. You have sex, more than not you will get pregnant... I think the best sex education of all is to teach our young ones that the body is a temple and you are to respect it. Sex biblically is made for marriage (see the problems when you don't have Jesus) and when ou sin against your body(ie: have sex out of marriage) you are expected to pay the consequenses for sin, period. This pill is just another way of women finding the easy way out of their responsibility. You are also KILLING A CHILD! I want to get that through to everyone... Killing is wrong biblically and morally... you don't win either way.

originally quoted form LadyAKA:

"Sitting in church last night (REVIVAL WEEK) my teacher mentioned how the bible is sometimes taken out of context. Diva_56, I see your point and I know exactly what the word says also, but I must say this is your opinion and interpretation of the word. I am not for killing "JUST BECAUSE" but seriously you need to think about the women in the situation. Would you like to be "so called inconvenienced" if you were raped and then impregnated??"

Yes some do take scripture out of context, in this case I was trying to point out how thr writer of this psalm David realized that God had a pupose for his life even in the womb, and if God reconizes the importance of David's life in the womb, then who are we as imperfect human beings to determine the direction or end of anyone's life.
And as far as misinterpreting scripture, you cant misinterpret "Thou shalt not Kill."

Concerning the rape issue, I discussed this with my fiance last night and feel like this... life deals us cards, some that we don't want and some that we do. Being rapped is a terrible crime. I was once a victem of a sexual assult that if I didn't fight back, I would have been raped. I have too considered this if I were to have gotten pregnant because of a rape, I remembered one thing. The BABY is innocent... he/she didn't harm a soul... my attacker was put in jail and HE, not the BABY will pay for what he has done to me. And as far as this hypothetical baby "Inconviencing" me, life is not fair and Jesus allowed the cards to be delt, I must play my hand. I would be totally worse for a little child that were impegnated by some person but unfortunately the same will apply. This is what sin does. SIN is the problem and when we start to deal with it, it will change a person. I will not kill an unborn child under any circumstances for convience.

[b] quoted by Ania:
I don't mean to start an uproar but there is a saying, "Do not pass judgement on.....".
Another thing, the word, "abortion" is not mentioned or given reference to in the bible. It's your choice to take it out of text.

I do reckon there are many passages on abortion in the bible. The bible does not directly say the word abortion. Read Jerimiah
Psalms, Job, and Leviticus. you will find refrences to abortion there.


I will try to cut this post short not to crowd the board.




------------------
In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

Praise God!!! there is someone who understands! there is NO JUSTIFICATION for abortion, period!

Girlfriend preach! Your absolutey right! Job's situation was caused by God allowing the DEVIL to afflict him to STRENTHEN HIS FAITH! It happens to the best of us! I thank you Jesus for allowing my past to be forgiven... I don't know where I would be. We as Christians cannot condone the sin of abortion... it is just not God's plan to do so. I am in no way's perfect, but the truth is the truth and is not subjective at all! I believe the bible and all 66 books are true in context and form and is indeed the real spiritual truth, but hey "I'm just an nobody... trying to tell everybody...about somebody who can save anybody." http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I am glad I have been exposed to the truth in the word of God.

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In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

Women have a constitutional right to bodily autonomy. The government by no means are saying we have a right to kill a human being. But at the same time, abortion being so complicated does depend on when a person considers when it is killing another human being, because we also have a substantive due process right to LIFE, liberty, and property. I am pro-choice, but would hope that one would try to take the precautions necessary to not get pregnant if they are not ready. Of course, that's assuming there's no rape or incest. But again, if we allow the government to regulate these constitutionally protected interests of individuals, then we could very well end up back in the day where the government regulated too much. Such as when it was against the law for someone to marry outside their race, mainly marry Whites. However, not to get on the interracial dating thing, but the point is, we do have constitutionally protected interests. We do have substantive due process rights such as right to marry, right to privacy AND the right to have children. Would we want our right to have children taken away and regulated by the government? Some argue, if we have the right to have children, we should surely have the right not to have children.. Just a little constitutional twist on it.. I hope I haven't mistated anything, but if I have, Soror Attorney's please feel to correct me. Just my .08

There are many faiths and philosophies in the world. The only thing that makes them right is the person or people who believe in them. I, personally believe that there IS JUSTIFICATION for an abortion whether its due to bad circumstances or a married couple who can not afford to properly support a second child. I believe in the right to life of a child but, I also believe in the right of a young girl, a young woman, an older woman, an unwed teen, or a widowed middle-aged woman to live her life. I refuse to believe that I or anyone should be made to make life harder on themselves. And although a mother should unconditionally and completely love their children...I'm sure we all know women who don't or at least act like they don't. No child deserves that. And some people are better off NOT having children. I don't even think all people DESERVE children. They take enormous amounts of time, energy, respect and love - which is something unfortunately not all people are willing to give. So once again I say...there IS TRULY JUSTIFICATION for an abortion. It shouldn't be a means for birth control (overuse) but it is sometimes rightly necessary. And, (excuse me if I offend) those who don't beleive so seem QUITE a bit unrealistic.