Nice Girls vs. Thugs
 

Is it just me or do a lot of Classy African American Women love to date thugs….. I just don’t understand it.
I was Dumbfounded when I heard about Bobby and Whitney…..But then again, I later found out, she really isn’t an angel herself……But to see Beyonce’ with Jay Z,,,,,,Brandy with Tyrees (sp?)…….and I almost dropped my dinner plate when I say my homegirl Vivica Fox with 50cents……I was like WHOA!!!!!!!!! I even read where Kelly from Destiny's Child saying that she wants a Hard THUG!!!!!
Man I don’t know why but I just feel that it’s sending a message to are young black men that in order for you to get women, you have to be a thug, gangsta, shot at 9 times, etc……. Maybe I am just over reacting, but what are your thoughts? It just saddens me that I feel like we don’t have any TRUE role models out there for our men…..And I don’t know what I am going to do when I start having children.

I feel you
 

Excellent post, Dable_ST1.

Now I want a nerd. A thug has no appeal for me, never has. ;) :D

I wish I could explain it. I think it has to do with the confidence that thugs project and the security the good girl feels. Or maybe it has to do with how these young ladies grow up.

Your right about one thing, it definately sends the wrong message to our young brothers. :( The funny thing about it is, if the nice girl wants to separate from that thug, she might find herself trapped in a situation that she can't handle. It's an unfortunate yet classic turn of events.

Can't we have both in one man????:confused:

I mean, can't we have a man that can handel himself on the street and the board room?
Is that too much to ask for?:confused:

That's how I feel.

That's what I got. :)

Point Well taken......
 

I agree with you on that....But how many of us ACTUALLY SEE these men in the Boardroom???? I Am not saying you can't have both,,,, but it would be nice to see BOTH sides...so our young black men can see that as well. When was the last time you seen 50 cents or Bobby Brown, etc.in the Board room? I know I know before you guyz say it...It's up to the parents, yeah, that's true. But I just wish we had more of a POSITIVE image out there for our black youth to see oppose to the *hard thug*.
I am just saying that if they could see BOTH sides, then I wouldn't have any beef. The only person that I can think of that has BOTH streets smarts ANNDDD can conduct a business meeting is Will Smith...I am sure that there are others (oh yeah and Puff too), but I feel we need more than just the few that we have.
My husband is a Business man, BUT can ALSO handle himself in the streets. ;)

Well dagnabbit that is what I need:(

Don't Forget Karl Kani.. man he was as rough as it gets.

Re: Point Well taken......
 

I agree with you 100%, however it's a sad state that we are in where the image of "thugs" out number "nice/good" guys. I have dated and know many positive black men who fit both persona ;) , however, they are not in the media's eye.

I do believe that there are men, behind the scenes, who work for all these artists you've mentioned, that the media should show, however they don't. Like in MTBII, their manager and lawyer, are buisness men, who have street sense and that is just ONE example. They are out there, we just need to find a way to bring them to the limelight.:rolleyes:

I gots me one of those too. :D :D

So!:rolleyes: :p :D

Well one of you lovely and INCREDIBLY smug sistas can explain to the rest of us why the thug part is so important to you then, lol.

:p

As for thugs- don't want one, don't need one. I am sure there are some men who are "thuggish" and also intelligent, but I have yet to meet any with whom I have the first thing in common. Men who walk around like they are still in the hood don't appeal to me on any level. I am not thuggish. I am not hood. I don't aspire to be. If that's what he feels represents him then we are not going to be talking.

I think that the thug appeal is what attracts a lot of women. Most of us have grown up "straight-laced" and dating a guy that is edgy and/or introduces us to another, more "risky" or daring, side of life is part of the appeal. With so much going around about being a "ride or die" chick, women are falling into that.

I also think it represents the "true" essence of what these women are when you take away their "diva" status.

I say that because my cousing, after receiving BOTH an MD and a PHD, proceeded to date and marry a straight GANGSTA. She is from Compton, like myself and basically said that she found other physicians, doctors, pocket protector types to be boring.

Now this former G is a very successful entrepreneur. I also think it has to do with lifestyle. I also think it has to do with "we don't know what these brothas are like behind closed doors. there may be just as much thug in the women as there is business mindedness in the men. Opposites attract but typically, there is probably more in common within their personalities that not. Dr. Dre's wife is totally opposite of what I think people would think she would be. She is very well spoken, dresses nice, and is a classy sistah, pretty much. That doesn't mean she doesn't get freaky in the bedroom, you know what I mean?

The public persona is not TRULY who most of these men are.

We also have to convey that to our children. What you see on videos, etc., is not who these folks are in their everyday lives. It's all just public persona and image.

Deltabrat wrote:
Opposites attract but typically, there is probably more in common within their personalities that not.


I think that opposites attract -- initially -- but ultimately people vibe best with those of like mind/spirit. Everyone has a natural curiosity about what's different. Factor in the emotional component inherent in relationship situations, and what's different can be even more attractive.

But we always return home. That's why we typically spend all our time trying to "change" the person to be more like we really wanted all along.

As to the examples presented, Vivica-50 cent (I'm still trippin' off that one) those are high-profile, Hollywood-type situations with a whole different set of dynamics most of us don't normally have to deal with in relationships anyway.

I could have sworn Dr. Dre's wife was a non-AA. Correct me if I am wrong.
Also look at Snoop's wife. She comes off very intelligent and what not.
I also believe the attraction is the whole "bad boy" image.

You're right treblk. Dre's wife is not AA.

I agree. Me, I'm structured, focused, goofy, sometimes impatient and maybe a teeny tiny tad bit high maintenance. :cool: So, I want someone who is a little spontaneous and raw. Somebody who can be real and tell me when I'm acting like a b*%ch and speak their mind. I think someone with some street credibility is a turn on. I'm most comfortable with the ENYCE/Vokal wearing brotha. I've been with someone who was like me in a lot of ways. He was really really smart, so much that he intimidated me. But he was so uptight...ugh.

Well, I'm almost 40 and don't need or want a risky or daring cat with, ahem, street cred. I want a nice, low-key, somewhat nerdy guy with an education, a respectful personality, a career trajectory that is definitely upward, decent credit and the willingness to be a great father.

Hey all:Points well takin. DId I say Dre's wife was AA? I don't recall.

For me it's all about being flexable. If a man can handle himself in the boardroom by day and handle himself in the "street" in the evening, I'm cool with that. Nerds (all the time) just don't work for me. He has to have some flava about him.

Question: How much of the appeal, I wonder, is age/maturity/point in life related? (and I'm not questioning anyone's maturity level no matter what their age) I mean, no one wants any one thing -- be it thug, or nerd -- all the time.

But I think as people mature (I'll speak for myself--late 30s) I'm less interested in seriously dating someone who is radically different from me. Yeah, be different, show me some things I don't know, give me new perspectives to consider, but don't be so far out there that agreement on more than 3 or 4 big issues is beyond reach.

It's probably less relevant for guys -- the closest I ever got to falling for a "female thug" was Vivica Fox in "Set It Off." ...I still can't believe they kilt ole girl her like that.

Exactly, Soror!!

My disinterest in thugs has always been with me. See, when I was a kid, those were the type of guys who always called me ugly and weird. That isht really colored my self-esteem.

I have never been interested in thuggish guys, even when I was in my teens or 20s. I'm very straight-laced -- never dated in HS, never was kissed until I was in my 20s. Sort of like this Nicole chick on "Freshman Diaries," a new Showtime reality series.

Thugs?

Had several and don't intend on being with another one. I was married to one and recently was seriously seeing one. Both had that business sense/street mentality that I found appealing and I always thought that was the kind of man that could keep my interest. But I can say from the experience that I don't want to do that ever again!! I found myself in situations and had some things happen that I don't want to repeat again. :(

I am almost 40 like Steeltrap and too old to be making the same mistakes.


Now I want a nerd!!

I guess I just don't believe that the choice is between nerd or semi-thug/lil thug. I know plenty of men who can be honest and real and are not street. I know plenty of intelligent guys who aren't nerds and don't let anybody push them around. I don't think being CONFIDENT has anything to do with being hood!


I just CAN NOT see any appeal in street. I am glad y'all are happy with yours but I would rather be single.

My man is definitely not a thug. He exudes confidence and has street smarts. Is that better?

I don't do thugs either, but I do want a man who can handle his own.

Okay, that I do understand.

I just wasn't getting how people were all of a sudden wanting thugs!:confused:

Thug Wear. He may look good but ......
 

But for me it comes down to this: here I am, going to various formal events for school, church, etc. How's it going to look if I walk in with this "G unit", go hard, pants-dragging somebody on my arm? Not only that but our men are examples to our children. Next thing you know, my son is going to insist on wearing his hat on backwards talking about "thug 4 life, you better recognize!" People judge us by the company we keep. I haven't even accomplished half of my desired goals. I don't want to be condemned before I have even had the opportunity to present myself.

Nerd's are back in style;)

Definition of a Thug in my book.....
 

.Ok.....Maybe people need to state what their definition is of a THUG,,,, Cause many of you state that you have one ,,some stated that you want a thug/business man....I for one have never been attracted to the Pants hangin down with the underwear showing,,,ghetto talking, dirty looking, always wanna fight, type guy..... I don't know why but when I think of a Thug, I think about the men or *Boys* on Making the Band Part II....and there is NOTHING that attracts me to those men AT ALL!!!! :eek: I stated before that my hubby can handle himself in the streets...and he can, But don't get it twisted, he is not a THUG! I just feel there is a difference between being Street Smart,,,,and a Thug!

On the flip side, I do know that you have the well-dressed, clean thug as well.......But for some reason THEY don't attract me either.....I guess just the name *THUG* is a turn off for me! :mad:

For those of you that like thugs I just want to know why? What attracts you to them? I am not trying to be nosey, just curious.

Re: Thug Wear. He may look good but ......
 

VERY WELL SAID!!!!!:) :D

I agree with many of the posts about needing someone with some "street credibility". I can't hang with a hardcore thug...nor am I tryin' to roll with Lester Jenkins III. Heck, I need something to swerve with.

It's like this...I can be a stubborn, spoiled brat at times. I grew up very sheltered and probably have no street credibility of my own. I may as well walk away from a fight, 'cause I probably get my tail whupped. As a matter of fact, it was my husband who - back then - came and pulled that chick off of me who was beating my behind down. Granted, I got in a couple of good scratches, but had he not been there I would have been tore up.

My husband is a college educated man with about 40% thug in him. He's always had thug-friends - ones that have remained thuggish into their 30's. My husband grew out of all that mess many years ago, but he still knows what's up.

Even better, with me being spoiled and stubborn, I have to have a man with some kind of thug mentality to keep me in check. Heck, I'd walk all over some little soft, nerdy dude. I'd have him up at dawn cleaning, mowing the lawn and picking up after me.

I love the way you put that!

Why do you think I want a soft, nerdy dude anyway?;) :p You haven't seen spoiled and stubborn...

I have to agree with what everyone is saying. For me, it has never been about the pants sagging, wearing a damn jersey to everything thang:mad: can't put 2 sentences together to make a word talking..that just doesn't appeal to me..however..the confidence that exudes out of some men..now that's what's up :D :p

I think that it's just about knowing how to handel yourself with confidence. I mean, look at all of us. WE are all educated and if need be, if someone, something gave us the cause to go there, WE all got our getto suits in our back pocket and we are able to pull it out with the quickness. Never leave home with out it.

PaaaaaAh Hahahaahah. I can't stop laughing. Heee hee haah. I know alot of people like that. Young, educated, divas and princesses - but don't get on their bad side!

My definition of a thug: Pants hangin down with the underwear showing, ghetto talking, dirty looking, always wanna fight, blinged out, FUBU wearing-type guy.

As for me...NO THANKS!!!

My boyfriend is probably considered a "Nerd" (*lol*). He doesn't do any of the following listed above and is interested in computers and electronics. But that doesn't mean he's spineless or wimpy. Not at all!!! And goodness knows that I am spoiled (let him tell it :p ), but he doesn't let me get awat with ish!

Neither him nor I was"raised in the streets" so street credibility means nothing to us. :confused:

Just remember ladies, there are more than two types of brothas out there! :D You can have you cake and eat it too! :D

"I've been gone for a minute now I'm back with the jump-off."

Maybe its time for me to offer my perspective on this. Honestly, I can see both sides of the situation.

Some Black Women do give black men an extremely hard time when it comes to relationships. Some Brothers have to jump through a helluva lot of hoops loops and garbage to even get some sort of response out of you guys sometimes. We understand you've been hurt, we understand you are probably skeptical of our motives, but the fact of the matter is ALL BLACK MEN ARE NOT THE SAME! We are not all out to get your money/sex/your car/life/(fill in any other idea you may have). We do not all have secret lives filled with other women/men/kids/families. We are not all Dogs/H%#s/Trifling/ No Good/Dirty Bastards. Alot of us genuinely want someone to love/cherish/kiss/hold/caress/believe in/support/treat like a queen.

Alot of the grief we catch comes from experiences that you've had in the past. Musiq hit the nail on the head when he said "I'm not to blame/for the pain/that was caused/by previous cats/who had your heart before me/"
I know it is very hard to get over someone that did you DIRTY (Believe ME I KNOW), but the solution to that problem is not making the next man pay for that man's mistakes. One foul turn DOES NOT DESERVE ANOTHER! Thats part of that baggage that some black women have been said to carry around. When you carry so much baggage it only serves to slow you down and hold you back.

Now, thats not to say that we as brothers aren't at fault to a certain degree. Alot of the $hit talking is warranted . . . . . IN SOME CASES. Alot of Men ARE WOMANIZERS. Some of us are TRIFLING. Many of us are unmotivated, shiftless, sorry negroes with no ambition or drive to do anything other than sit on our collective A$$e$ and talk about women/cars/Playstation 2/women/sex/weed/liquor/did I mention women?/draws/"the man"/Music Videos/women/Trina's A$$/their "glory days"/throwback jerseys/and . . . . . women. STOP BEING TRIFLING PEOPLE! Its time for us all to grow up. The reason they call it "game" and people "players" is because everybody is playing. GROW UP PEOPLE!

*NOW LADIES .. FOR THE "QUES"tion of the day*

Why is it that the sorry, drug dealing, loser, wannabe thug can get a strong woman to stand by his side and put up with his garbage/cheating/and leaching ways, but the ambitious entrepreneur with aspirations of going to law school and starting his own corporation who is working two/three jobs but doesn't have the fly whip on spinnin' 20's cause he's investing in his future trying to better himself can't find a woman to even go get a cup of coffee with? Or better yet, have a Sister stand by his side while he's building his lagacy? Ladies, tell me how this sounds? *these are just situations that are out there.. Nothing I've written is 100% how it is.*

I have never been interested in thugs. I have always liked confident men, which is not the equivalent of a thug. I have always liked men who were clear about the value of the relationship and treated it as such. I also like men who are flexible enough to know when male assertiveness is appropriate (sometimes) and when it is not (most of the time) and when it is time to be kind and patient (most of the time).

When I was younger, I also used also say I didn't want a "doormat" so he wouldn't get run over. What I have since realized is that there are VERY FEW men who will let you do just any old thing to them. Whether they say something about it immediately or not, they will let you know, by word or by action eventually, that your isht will not be tolerated. Now, I LOVE those guys who let me slide with stuff rather than riding me all the time: it creates peace and in no way diminishes my respect for them.

Although my boyfriend does fit the physical description of a thug that some have given, I have never considered him as such. He does wear baggy jeans, Tims, and jerseys all the time, but he is also a college student in his early twenties. This is the basic uniform fo rmen his age and in his situation. If he were knocking on forty, I might have to reconsider.

To answer the question, I don't want a thug in any way, shape or form. When someone says "thug," I think of a weed smoking, forty ounce drinking, foul mouthed man with little ambition and most likely an illegal job. That is not at all appealing to me. I do, however, want a man with confidence and street smarts. By street smarts, I mean the ability to read other people, to handle sticky situations with the least amount of drama and hassle, and to be able to defend me physically if the situation ever arises. I have to be able to know that my man can knock someone out for me if it comes down to it. (Thank the Lord that Boyfriend has a black belt).