Those darn pin collectors on e bay again!!!
 

I am in the process of trying to rescue an AOpi pin on e bay. The other bidders are collectors. I sent one person a message asking if they were an AOPi and they responded "sorry...wrong sex" I know he is a collector. This burns me up.

I lost my own pin last year and have since been awaiting its appearance on e bay.

How do you all feel about these collectors snatching up all the pins and selling them for big bucks? I guess that is a stupid question. I am sure they do not know it should be returned to nationals but...

There must be a lot of people who collect GLO pins!

I'm not into e-bay, but I read these threads and think.....Why are these pin collectors snapping them up? Not that all of our pins aren't gorgeous or anything, but if you weren't in a GLO....Yes, you can resell them to members of that org, but not without 1,000 questions regarding how you came upon it. *shaking head*

Don't worry, rosejoy. You'll get a pin. :)

Thanks Moxie!!! My Mom has said she'll get me a new pin for Christmas from the AOpi Emporium, but I am still sad about ever losing my first one.

The pins are all gorgeous from GLO's and I can see the fascination....it just hurts my heart that I have to bid against someone who was not in the org.

Another AOPi on GC did inform me she had a nice experience with a pin collector who was a GLO member. At least he was nice to her and understood the significance of the pins!!!

Just to add to the "nice collector" line......

Just this week we had an ebay seller agree to end the auction early for one of our pins that he/she was selling and sell it to the original owner whom we had found. She had lost it in college (fairly recently) and our Badge Task Force managed to track her down through her mother.

That is nice...it is a shame though that she had to buy her own pin back. Surely the collector was not the one who found it. He or she probably had paid someone for it. It would be nice in a n ideal (ha yah right) situation that if someone found the pin they would allow the original owner (if proven) to just pay shipping.

I know that is idealized and unrealistic, but...just dreaming up a real nice collector scenario.

Pin colectors should be given a black eye by Clement, my new one eyed pet gopher.

Really dont want to get into this.

But, while We may not like it, it is a fact! I have saved over 3 dozen Badges off of ebay! Trying to sell them to Brothers at Cheaper than from HDQ! Da, no body wants them!:(

So what do I do with @ 2,000.00 worth of Badges.?:confused:

Some are very old and some have more gems in them than the basic Pearl Badge!

Now, you tell me!

I have a Brother Who is a Collector who will have a Collage made to Present Badges to his Chapter from as many Greek Organizations as possible! :)

I dont like it either, but it is a fact of life!:(

It is a shame, but we can always hope that whatever price she paid for it was the same as what the seller paid for it.

I recall reading somewhere (maybe AOII, maybe Kappa, maybe Gamma Phi, I can't recall but it was a sorority) that if you lost your badge to file a police report. Apparently, having the police report can make your life easier if your badge eventually shows up on eBay or another auction type site. If anyone can share any more about this, please do!

I apologize... I attempted to reply to this thread, and inadvertently started a new thread instead. *smacks self on forehead*

The new thread is:
http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...threadid=38379

One other bidder turns out to have a daughter who is an AOPi at UGA. He is giving the pins to her for birthdays, etc. At least I feel a little better.

Yes, this is true. A police report is the only way you will be able to prove it was stolen. The original owner will probably still have to pay whatever the seller paid for the item.

Tom, our Foundation allows us to donate badges of "historical significance" to our museum and claim a tax write off. That's great that you've managed to get that many, our Task Force constantly gets out bid.

As I said in another thread, what I don't understand is why people are aren't greek, who have no family that is greek, insist on collecting pins and then try to out bid someone who is greek and trying to save their GLO's pin.

I understand that some are collectors, but when they see someone from the GLO bidding on the pin, give it back to them.

It makes me wonder are these people bitter that they were passed up for greek life so now they bid on pins. They will never be able to wear them. They don't understand the importance or the significance in our pins.

Sorry, just had all these thoughts going through my brain. I just wish I could understand.

Brianna
Alpha Delta Pi

I don't understand why a GLO would spend its extra money on rescuing non-historically significant pins rather than donating the money to its philanthropy or contributing to a scholarship fund for needy members. Nor do I understand why it bothers people if a non-stolen pin ends up in the display case of a collector who admires the physical and conceptual beauty of Greek life in America. How are the ideals of the GLO damaged by this preservation of a symbol?

Both the GLO AND the collector have a right to spend their money how they wish. I simply don't understand anybody getting upset about any of this.

Ivy

Okay, I'll bite.
 

Y'know, I kind of agree with this. I can see if they're historically significant, but just the generic badge? For Kappa it costs $46, which is probably much less than you'd pay on eBay. I understand if it's YOUR badge, or your mom's, or your big sis's, but...

Kappa's "Keepers of the Key" are operating independently from the Fraternity. They work with the Fraternity to establish measures for protecting badges, e.g. creating the badge disposition form, raising awareness about filing police reports, etc., but the Fraternity does not contribute financially to the rescuing of badges.

And it's also worth reminding that the huge, public badge rescue efforts are what have driven up the cost of eBay badges in the first place.I think the biggest problem, IvySpice, is not the collectors who wish to preserve the symbol. It's the not-so-nice collectors who seem bound and determined to keep our badges OUT of our hands: those who refuse to disclose the badge owner information engraved on the back; those who block bids from known GLO members, and those who make the prices prohibitive when they know that GLO members are there.

wow your badge is pretty cheap at $46, but then again if I paid $46 for a pin, I guess I wouldn't be so upset if it ended up on Ebay. But I didn't pay that for my pin and new members don't pay that for their pins, I won't give exact numbers, but we pay more.

It doesn't upset me that collectors want to admire our pins, it does when someone, like you mentioned, purposely won't let a GLO person bid or recieve the item. I have a problem with that.

But then again, I'm a emotional person. My sorority means a lot to mee (not to say that yours doesn't too you) but I just don't feel that non members should have our pins. This could just be me and how I feel and that's totally fine.

Brianna
Alpha Delta Pi

KKC, it seems like you and I are talking about two different things. You're talking about pin DEALERS, whereas I'm talking about pin COLLECTORS.

The pin dealers on eBay are out to make a buck. They buy low and sell high. Raising the price because a motivated purchaser (read: member of that GLO) is bidding is plain old capitalism.

I think it's totally obnoxious when a dealer refuses to disclose info on the back, but if that creates a lot of headaches for him as a businessman (read: 100 angry e-mails from chapter members demanding to buy back the pin at a low price), I understand why he won't do it.

As for dealers blocking bids from GLO members, that's horrible. I just can't believe that it's very common, because it's against the financial self-interest of the dealers. A lot of the people willing to pay $500+ for a pin are members of that GLO, and a dealer who refused to sell to a motivated purchaser wouldn't be in business for very long. All they see is green, not blue & blue or cardinal & straw. If you know of obnoxious individuals doing this out of spite, it's amazing that they can afford to continue.

All that being said, I do understand that it can be painful to see a representation of something you love treated like a commodity. The only way to avoid that is to get your members to hang onto their pins.

A lot of people on GC take great exception to pin COLLECTORS as well as dealers. I view this the same way I would view a person who collects & displays flags of other nations. A French flag collector cannot possibly understand what the U.S. flag means to a U.S. veteran who fought in Korea...but it still has both aesthetic beauty and a beautiful open meaning that non-Americans can appreciate.

Just my 10 cents...

Ivy

All of our badges are not $46. You can pay more than $200 for a badge if you want diamonds on it. Kappas can get badges that are plain ($46) or jeweled with pearls, sapphires, diamonds, or any combination of the two.

And don't get me wrong, I'm always upset when I see a Kappa badge on eBay. I'm upset that the symbol of our sisterhood is being bought and sold as if it were just a random piece of jewelry, especially by people who don't understand the deeper significance behind it.

I just think that it's a little absurd for organizations to spend thousands of dollars to rescue historically insignificant badges when they could do other things with the money. If private members wish to do so, that's their own business, and all the more power to them.I guess I do take certain exception to collectors. Often they're purchasing lost or stolen property. If they're active in the trade, they'll know that GLOs have policies about the possession of their badges, so they'll realize that they're keeping badges out of the hands of members. I know that some organizations allow their members to purchase, often at a discount, used badges that have been returned to HQ. It's both cheaper and significant in that the sister wearing the used badge is carrying on the legacy of a deceased sister.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have them in the hands of members than collectors. But I'd certainly rather have them in the hands of collectors who value their beauty and open meaning than melted down for scrap.

Make any sense?

(edited for typos)

Yes, KKC, makes perfect sense. I don't see it exactly the same way you do, but I totally understand what you are saying.

As far as Keepers of the Key and other rescue groups, IMO this is another instance of people serving their GLO in what they feel is the best way. I know that some people think "all that $$ they spend on pins, they could give to the foundation" or whatever. But that's their decision. It's kind of like how I believe hands on philanthropy is better than donating. Not everyone would agree with me, but that's my prerogative.

My question is that how do these sellers on ebay acquire the pins? I know that when a member of a GLO passes away, at times the family members don't think much of the pins/badges and give them away or sell it. Or if it is lost and somebody finds it, still thinks nothing of it and sells it on ebay. It would be better to return to the IHQ or the chapter. I don't see what joy these people take in selling the pins/badges.

Kudos to the GLOs and individual members who are doing their part in retrieving these pins/badges. These items should be in the right hands!

http://mysmilies.creativesell.net/otn/wink/wink2.gif

They take lots of joy: the joy of money.

Most members don't tell their family what to do with their badge and they end up in an estate sale OR they have been lost or stolen and the dealer/collector ends up with it down the road.

The money our Task Force uses to purchase historically significant badges off of ebay comes through pooling the funds of many women and not from our organization either. We bid in a very methodical manner and keep an eye on the bidding to keep from driving up the prices. We first try to locate the original owner and give her the ability to purchase the badge and newer badges we pretty much leave alone. Any others that are purchased are done so by individual members many of whom are trying to replace a badge that they lost. As KappaKittyCat said, we are one of those orgs who sells returned badges to our members looking to replace a lost one (for a lower price).

And just to dispel a myth that seems to be perpetrating, the women (at least in my org, I would assume Kappa as well) who buy these badges are already heavy contributors to our Foundation and this is simply one more way that they can preserve our history, for our future members. I get irritated when I hear insinuations that seem to say otherwise.

However, Gamma Phi is very well aware that buying the badges is not the answer and the fact that they show up for sale really isn't the true problem. The problem is a lack of education on the proper disposal of a member's badge as well as a simple lack of caring on the part of members.

Melanie
Chair, Badge Task Force

I was about to post on this but my sister pretty much summed it up! ;) Most of the Gamma Phis on our BTF are names that I recognized from other areas - and they are all heavily involved. I'm probably the least financially giving out of the bunch (in fact, I'm positive I am) because I'm still in college. While I wouldn't want to see our HQ spending my money to snap up a badge from a Rho chapter founder, I'm thrilled that another sister cares enough to do it.

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have rescued the beautiful badge. It is truly unique. I also got in touch with a very nice AOPi who also is a badge rescuer! I may wear the badge until I am able to get my own. Is this allowed? Does anyone know?

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. You are the best.

This is what Greek life is all about... If GDI's met Greeks like all of you, they would not make such anti greek comments.

You all rock. I am happy now!!!

I’ll promise to refrain from one of my typically long-winded replies on this subject if you’ll collectively agree to stop using “dealer” and “collector” interchangeably.

Dealers are only in it for the money. They’re not greek. They don’t care about your badge. They’ll scour the earth to find them and they’ll do whatever they can to get a high price.

Virtually every pin collector is greek themselves. We collect the badges because they mean a lot to us. We know they also mean a lot to you, but that doesn’t really change anything. Ebay is an auction site. So whoever wants it most, gets it. For those of you who collect militaria or glassware or Elvis autographs… imagine someone writing to you during the auction and saying “hey this piece is really important to me so I’d appreciate if you’d just let me have it”. Silly, eh? That happens to badge collectors every day. Keep that in mind when the response you get is somewhat terse.

I’ve argued my side of this topic all by my lonesome for quite a long time. It’s nice to see a few others with very good insights into the debate. These bear repeating:

IvySpice: “Nor do I understand why it bothers people if a non-stolen pin ends up in the display case of a collector who admires the physical and conceptual beauty of Greek life in America. How are the ideals of the GLO damaged by this preservation of a symbol?”

KappaKittyCat: “And it's also worth reminding that the huge, public badge rescue efforts are what have driven up the cost of eBay badges in the first place.”

KappaKittyCat: “guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have them in the hands of members than collectors. But I'd certainly rather have them in the hands of collectors who value their beauty and open meaning than melted down for scrap.”

SmartBlondeGPhB: “However, Gamma Phi is very well aware that buying the badges is not the answer and the fact that they show up for sale really isn't the true problem. The problem is a lack of education on the proper disposal of a member's badge as well as a simple lack of caring on the part of members.”

wptw

Yep, WPTW,


I hope you explained it so most can understand!;) :cool:

There is a difference!:)

Congrats on your purchase RoseJoy! You can start wearing your badge right away. We don't have any regulations regarding historical or replacement badges that I am aware of. I know that if you order a historical badge from HQ, they can remove the previous owner's info if you like. I went to convention this summer and talked with a few women from the Emporium about historical badges and they prefer we keep the information on the badges. I would treat it as an heirloom and be sure that you make arangements for it in your will. You may want to document how you purchased it and what the info on the back stands for. My grandmother recently gave me some antique jewelry and told me the history behind the pieces, and it just makes it special.

AOII

Thanks, Sunfloweria. I am glad to know that it is okay to wear the badge...otherwise I would surely feel bad wearing it. I will certainly make arrangements in a will (when I draw one up.)

Great Kuddos to you ro rescuing and AOP Badge!:)

Do not feel bad about wearing an AOP Badge from a Sister, that just makes it that more special! It was not only Hers, if she is passed, but also yours that very well may be passed down!:)

I have said it many times (WPTW) that I have backed what he has put on GC. He is trying to give the best advice possible to GCers.

As I have mentoned several times, there are Some Badges that I could make a lot of money from as have seen the Prices go Crazy:

APO-Member
TKN- merged with LXA in 1939
3 LXA-Dont see them
Many Other LXA Badges that I would like to get to Brothers at cheaper prices than they are now.


I have an interest in all Greek Organizational Badges because they are each special!

But, I have intrest in only mine to purchase!

I would like soe day to buy the all Diamond and Pearl Badge and may yet, for $340.00! Still pondering that one!:)

Prove that statement wptw....in MANY cases that I have personally experienced, the badge mean a lot to the collectors mainly because they have it and a member does not -- the thrill of the chase and winning means more than the beauty and significance of the badge to the collectors I have come across...Yeah, they want it most so they bid to get it -- but do not say collectors know what the badges mean -- because they really do NOT! If they truly knew what the badges meant, they would not be collecting them.

I'd admire more of a badge Robin Hood who rescues/collects badges and returns them to the sorority they signify -- to me that is the only kind of collector who'd indicate they knew the meaning of a badge...

I am sorry but I do not think badge collectors are doing Greekdom any favors. I have only "met" one collector on ebay who I considered to be even remotely courteous. The rest I have "met" act like self righteous thugs who if they were a country, would be Switzerland which took and kept holocaust victims money for themselves after WW2....sorry if that is harsh but it's how I feel.

I know I've posted this before...Alpha Gamma Delta has a Badge Disposition form so that the member can let her family members know what to do with her Badge..bury her with it or return to IHQ.

I have a plain one and an all-pearl one. I want to be buried with the plain one and have the pearl one returned to IHQ for my future sisters!

When I die, I want my Badge to returned to the Chaplain of my chapter. I will get a Chaplain's Dangle for it, so that way it will be a special Badge for the Chaplain to wear.

Question:

Say you have multiple badges. Most likely a plain one that was your firts badge upon initiation, and maybe another (or more) that are jewelled. If you were to return the more elaborate badge (and be buried with the plain badge). What does headquarters do with the returned badges? Do they resell them to sisters or brothers??

For us, those that are returned to IH from deceased members are archived. They are not resold.

Well, that's difficult to prove. You and I are bound to have different experiences with collectors because I know them as colleagues and friends and share a common interest with them, and you know them as perhaps more of an adversary (as your feelings about collecting are quite clear). So it's not surprising you and I would have differing impressions of them. Which of us do you suppose knows their intentions and feelings about collecting better? You, who have communicated with them via email? Or someone like me who has talked for hours with them about collecting, hunted for badges together, eaten meals with them and drunk a beer or two? Hint: Probably me.

Also, I know which ebay usernames are pin collectors and which are dealers. You do not. So it's likely that at least some of your unpleasant experiences were with dealers and not collectors. I certainly don't dispute that many collectors have made rude responses. That's a conditioned response to a long pattern of harassment, and while I don't endorse it, I also don't think it's indicative of an “:mad: I have it and you don’t :mad:” acquisitionist attitude.

You would have us believe that collectors are spending all this money just to spite you and make sure you don’t get your badge back? That’s absurd.

In fact, I happen to know a badge collector just recently committed to helping YOUR rescue organization find loose badges. The collector in question is not a spiteful person, but is currently considering rescinding that offer.

Hint: It’s me.

Actually, I said the badges mean a lot to us. I didn’t say collectors know what the badges mean.

But since you brought it up, I have to point out that your statement is actually wrong because a few collectors do indeed know what the badges mean. Hint: Me again. And I still collect. Knowing the meaning of the badge actually enhances my appreciation of them.

You’re comparing badge collectors to the people who exploited holocaust victims? Wow congrats, that's smashingly inappropriate. I really hope you just stink at picking metaphors, because otherwise, that’s just offensive to everyone.

If this is how you generally communicate with collectors, then hmm… I wouldn’t expect the tone of their responses to improve very much.

wptw

And as the chair of that organization, I am personally very grateful for you were willing to help us, as is at least one other member of our task force.

Thank You.

Folks, if we want to stop the selling of badges on ebay we basically need to stop buying them from there. I would assume that every org has a way to purchase an upgraded badge or replace a lost badge--and I guarantee it is MUCH less than what they go for on ebay. In fact, I know sisters in my own organization who have paid over $100 for a non-historically significant badge on ebay when they could have gotten a new one for $30 or $40 from the HQ. Not to mention then that the HQ would receive a royalty from the sale of that badge.

I know that this does not stop the collectors--but it will stop the prices from running up and this will not be such a lucrative business.

Additionally--every chapter should know and understand what their organization would prefer in terms of receiving badges from members who have passed or no longer want their badges.

The Naval Academy has a great program that "rescues" their class rings. Once a ring if found on an auction site, there is a coordinator who locates the ring owner or a relative. Many of the rings are returned-- if stolen, usually without additional cost-- if lost, sometimes with cost. They also loan rings received into their ring bank for others classmates to wear who may have lost their ring. West Point now has a great program where rings from members that have passed are melted down and the gold is used to help form the rings of the new classes. This might be something greek orgs could do with returned badges.

Greek chat isn't the army. If we were, there'd be a coup. Drastic results may varry. That's why there called drastic. :confused: This is my worst post ever. I can't go rescue your badge if its lost, just because its on ebay. I don't have the resourse of the Naval Academy or West Point. I hope people find their badges, though, it sucks not finding stuff.

Edidted to make sense.

Badges! We don't need no stinking badges! WE got pizza bagels and hot pockets. I wish I spoke Mexican. Free Tommy Chong.

I was simply throwing an idea out there for ORGANIZATIONS (not individuals) to consider. Some groups are already tracking badges and finding owners for badges on aution sites--and it really takes little time or money.

Your post makes no sense--and to flame someone for throwing out ideas, no matter where they come from, is just not cool.