Abortion... please don't flame!
 

Nevermind I'll put it back up! :)

I always felt like I was pro-choice for two reasons... rape and incest. But then something happened to my friend's aunt.

She became pregnant, but there were major complications. If she carried the baby to term, then she could have died during labor, the baby could have died, or both coudl have died. It was an extremely high risk pregnancy. She ended up terminating the pregnancy. She is a great person, from a good family with great morals, but it was possibly the best choice.

How do you feel about abortion in cases of life or death?

Please only respond if you're going to respond with a mature, helpful opinion. Please do not respond with "Abortion is bad no matter what". I guess this thread is more for those who are Pro-Choice.

you always hear stuff from the religious world about abortion being murder, yadda yadda. but it is a hard subject to find one conclusion to come to. growing up in the christian world, it was drilled in my head that abortion is wrong and an abomination. but what about those cases with incest and rape. i do believe that great things come in unexpected small packages. i know of quite a few people that were born from victims of rape. they thank God that they were born and that they went on to do great things. now obviously, this isnt always the case. it just hurts to think about a baby being hurt. now i know that is not the intent ( in most cases) but it just makes me sad. i just am not in a position to say if it is right or wrong. thankfully, i have never been in a position where i was involved in incest or something terrible like that. i cant imagine what that child's life would be like. it sounds awful. so i have no right to say if i think it is a 'sin'. i can have an opinion, but i cant think that i have the right to stop someone's decision. my body is not the one in trouble here. that is what i think but i feel kinda wierd about that. i feel the church frowning on me now.:(
i still love the church and my christianity.


people please! be mature with this topic! dont attack each other!

I am of the opinion that abortion is wrong. I'm someone that believes that everything happens for a reason. If someone becomes pregnant, then there is a reason God wants to bring that child into the world. I don't really see it as an issue of a woman's body, I see it as an issue of the child's life. I believe life begins at conception. If someone has a miscarriage, they are usually sad because they lost their child. I find it difficult to separate the idea of it being a child when it's wanted and not being a child when it isn't.
I also have difficulty deciding what to do when it is a life or death situation. If either way, someone is definitely going to die, how do you value one life over the other? It's a heart wrenching decision, I'm sure.
I'm hoping that I said this in a way that doesn't sound disrespectful. These are simply my opinions and how I view the topic.

I think any woman who wants an early-pregnancy abortion, for WHATEVER reason she thinks is good enough, should be able to obtain one safely and legally. I would NOT put any kind of rape/incest qualfications on that. It doesn't matter to me what kind of sex the parents were having when the baby was made (consensual or non). I don't think children should exist to "punish" the parents if they were being "bad" at the moment of conception.

I don't think it matters how the fetus was made, it's still the same fetus. If you believe abortion is taking a morally meaningful "life," then it's the same life regardless of how it got there. For that reason, I don't agree with rape/incest type restrictions on who can have abortions and who can't.

I don't believe that there are a lot of women who have multiple abortions as birth control. I think that to go through an abortion (even an early one) is a huge deal, emotionally, so if a woman thinks it's the best choice, then who am I to tell her she's wrong. No one can be more of an expert on a woman's circumstances and situation better than that woman, herself.

So, the way I look at it, it's pretty clear-cut in cases of life and death. If the mother thinks it's best to end the pregnancy, I can't think of any reason why she shouldn't be allowed by law to do so. If she has other (born) children who need a mother, it's almost selfish of her NOT to end the pregnancy if there's a good chance she might die.

All that said, I don't know what I'd choose if I were unmarried and pregnant by accident because my birth control failed. But I'd want all my options to choose from.

personally, i know i couldnt have an abortion. i would go through with the pregancy. it may seem like it is easy for me to say this now when i am not in the position. but it is a personal belief. i would have the baby no matter what.

I am personally very torn on the topic.

I used to be pro-choice (and I still am), but COMPLETELY pro-choice. Meaning, IMO, there were NO instances in which a woman shouldn't be entitled to an abortion...

Now, I'm not so sure. Why?

Because I would never have met my BF if his birth mother had just terminated his life and given up on the possibilites of this child.

I do thank heaven every day that his birth mother chose to go full term with him.

He doesn't know if he was a product of rape/incest, an "accident" (I HATE THAT TERM, but cannot think of a better word at the moment), or just not wanted. And I personally ache for him because he doesn't know and wants to know.

If I were raped, and became pregnant, I don't know what I'd do...I cannot even think of the very instance occuring, let alone predict what my mental state would be like after this happening.

I know that if I become pregnant now at this stage of life after having sex with a partner of my choosing, I would keep my child. I am in the financial position to take care of a child I'd want to keep. But if there was a risk of death for either me or the child if I carried to full term, I would have to think long and hard about aborting...Would I give my life for our child? I don't know...

But in the instance of incest, the risks may be too great for the product of conception to live a full, healthy, productive life. The risks of genetic defects, mental deficiencies, and far worse physical challenges climb when two people of close genetic ties conceive a child....

Like I said, I'm torn. But I do know that a woman's choice to choose should NOT be taken away.

I'm pro-choice, so you already know what I'm going to say :)

Even if you believe life begins at conception, I don't see how you could argue with termination of an extremely high-risk pregnancy in which it is highly probable that mother, baby, or both will die. Ectopic pregnancies, for example, are routinely terminated. You're talking about one life definitely ending, vs. two lives probably ending.

Interesting side note: If you have ever had an abortion, any subsequent pregnancy is automatically high-risk.

kinda like choosing favorites or something?

As most of you can probably guess, I'm VERY pro-choice. In fact, keeping Roe v. Wade as the letter of the law is one of the few causes I can honestly say I'm willing to do anything for.

I have a friend who was essentially raped by her partner (he would start having sex with her while she was asleep, bastard). When she found out she was pregnant, abortion was the only option. Why? In addition to the circumstances of conception, she suffers from a condition that would threaten her life if she was to become pregnant. So, off to PP she went. Most of us would probably say that she was totally justified.

There are too many grey areas to say that it's right all the time or that it's wrong all the time. I don't like abortion--I know exactly what it is, how it's performed, and what happens. BUT, women have been aborting since the beginning of time, with less than safe conditions. To ensure safe conditions, and to protect women when having a child would threaten their lives and emotional well-beings, it must remain legal. There are just too many grey areas to make a blanket statement that applies to every woman and her situation in this country.

Re: Abortion... please don't flame!
 

I am pro-choice, completely. I think that a woman should be able to have a safe and legal abortion under any circumstances.

From my perspective as a father, I find the idea of abortion to be difficult.

However, I believe that it is a woman's decision (in some cases in concert with the father) in the end.

In terms of a situation where the mom, baby or both are in jeopardy, I would certainly support terminating the pregnancy.

She is just irresponsible and stupid and I guess you have the right to be both!

I have to admit my husband and I are at opposite poles on this one

I live by this: Against Abortion? Then don't have one!

I am a flaming pro-choicer. No one should tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. Unless you walk a mile in her stilettos, then you can't tell her nothin'! It is NEVER a decision to be taken lightly (and women who take it lightly are not too smart). And I am not down with it past the first trimester. I would not want to have one, but I think the option should always be there. And I am one who will fight to the death to make sure that option is still there for women.

(Yes I have marched on Washington for this)

http://www.superbabies.homestead.com/files/clap1.gifWhat she said!

Also I am loving the fact that we are being mature about discussing this. Name calling is not cool


ETA: I also think we need more concise information on birth controls. The same groups who want abortion eradicated are also ones who want funds cut for birth control research.
Ya can't have it both ways! :rolleyes:

More education about birth control=more responsible behaviour=fewer situations where this CHOICE has to be made

I am very conservative, I think everyone here on GreekChat knows this! However, I do not presume to speak for every woman when it comes to abortion. I do not support abortion, but I support a woman's right to make whichever decision is right for HER. Does that make any sense???

If I were pregnant and it were a choice between my life and the life of my baby, I would most likely lean toward saving the baby. That doesn't make me good or bad, that's just how I feel. My husband, on the other hand, if given the choice of my life of the life of the baby, says he would choose me.

It's a tough decision, to be sure. Not one I'd like to make. And not one I could ever criticize anyone else for making.

I am pro-choice in all situations. I have good faith that the doctors performing abortions would not give late-term abortions unless it was absolutely 100% medically necessary. I agree with whoever said, "If you are against abortions, then don't have one."

Abortions are about $500. That's pretty expensive and dangerous birth control. While I think that multiple abortions show a bit of irresponsibleness, it really does not affect me. I would rather someone pay for an abortion out of their own pocket than have a child they cannot support and let me pay for it through my taxes.

(Note: I do wish those groups that are for abortion and stand around Pittsburgh with their mutilated fetus signs would quit. Those pictures are gross.)

well, personally, i lean towards the pro-life side of the fence. lol...as all of my friends will say, they can't believe it bc i am so feminist and liberal in just about everything else. i guess every now and then my 9 years of catholic school shows. :)

i think that too many women use abortion as birth control. if you don't want to have a baby, then use some protection and some common sense! if you are sleeping with every guy in the neighborhood and find yourself pregnant, then you already made your choice. getting pregnant is a consequence of your actions.

now, i firmly believe that abortion in cases of rape and incest is perfectly fine. i know that if this ever happened to me, then there is NO WAY i could ever love the child. i know that sounds terrible (and i do love kids), but i can't imagine looking at the child and not remembering that awful night!!! as far as incest goes, i think that most cases involve younger women (like 10-18) and i don't think that they CHOSE to have sex with their relative, so i kind of see that in the same light as rape.

on a slightly side note, i think there is a misconception that all women who have abortions are perfectly happy with their choice. i know this is not true. one of my good friends had an abortion our senior year of college. she was in an abusive relationship- mostly mental, but abusive none the less- and finding out she was pregnant was the one thing that made her realize that she had to leave this man. she decided to have an abortion bc she knew that she couldn't take care of this child. after the procedure, she became a completely different person. before she was a total social butterfly and then she became completely opposite. she went home every weekend, nearly left school, dropped out of all of her activities, etc. etc. etc. even tho she knew that this was the best decision, it was by no means easy and it is something that she still has a hard time dealing with!!!

oh, and a friend of my mom's had an abortion in the 70s and she still cries on the anniversary of the abortion.

I dunno...
 

I am with smiley21: I myself would choose NOT to have an abortion if I were pregnant...

I am old enough to know where babies come from... I also consider myself a responsible adult who made the choice to sleep with man unprotected and know that I could get pregnant... So, basically, I am saying, I made my bed, so I now could lie in it...

One thing to consider:

For the ladies:

If none of you have been pregnant, then you really don't know what you will do until you are in that situation...


For the gentlemen:

If you haven't ever gotten a woman pregnant, then how do you really know what you will do when you have gotten into that situation???


On that note: I have a close friend who carries a severe genetic disorder. She does not have the genetic disorder, but she is a carrier... At any rate, she has a 1 in 50 chance in producing offspring that could have this disorder... If her egg is fertilized and implants into the uterus and becomes a fetus, it possibly with live until birth... But the child born will have no skull, none of the organs will develop fully and it will not live passed day 2 outside of the mother... Well, she found out thru genetic testing on her first pregnancy, that her child had the disorder. She decided to abort at 6 months...

I have had other friends and family use abortion as birth control...

I have had other friends and family use abortion because it was their choice...

Then I have had friends and family who have had their children, and jacked up their children's lives...

Sooooo??? I dunno...

But either way we look at it, the concept of abortion is a political one... The bottom line is a personal one...

i'm very pro-life, but i don't feel that i have the right to dictate what other people do to their bodies. i cannot control lives. however, i do not believe in partial-birth abortion for any reason. why? as i understand it, partial-birth abortion is performed at a time when the fetus has a chance of surviving on its own outside the womb. i have not heard of many cases where a woman is faced with the chioce of either her baby or her life so late in a pregnancy. if the circumstances did work out in thos ecircumstances for me i would probably choose to attempt to save the baby if at all possible. however, i do not have the right and i cannot make that decision for someone else...it is a decision every woman has to make on her own and live with.

i have heard of the removal of a fetus who is already dead termed as abortion, but in my mind that is necessary surgery.

*edited to add that i fully support abortion in the case of incest or rape. no person should have to live with that burden.

Let's remember, women can and do get pregnant by accident while using birth control of one form or another.

It's not always the case that the women was just dumb or totally irresponsible and had unprotected sex, gets knocked up (big surprise) and now needs to pay the consequences. What if she WAS careful? I would guess that many or maybe even MOST women seeking abortion tried to be careful in some way and were just unlucky (condom broke, pill failed, etc).

im totally pro-choice, which is unusual here in the deep south, and especially among the ultra conservative people i seem to be surrounded by everyday. however i try to be openminded and tolerent of abortion because i know this world is far from perfect, and if i was a 12 year old who was raped and found herself pregnant, or a loving mother who wants despretly to keep her child but knows if she does she will die-- (in one case i know of, the baby was in utero without a brain, just a tumor instead, and the mother was terribly ill and would die if she had the baby-- better to abort the fetus then have the mother give birth to it and probably die-- after all the fetus had no brain anyways, and therefore i am sure we can all agree wasnt alive anyways. of course if bush had it his way she would have had to have it. but whatever now i am off on a huge tangent.) anyways like i was saying-- i know if i had ever found myself in one of these situations, i would like to have an option to save myself. i dont care how selfish that sounds to some people, because it isnt. you cant force a little girl to have a baby when she is one herself. i dont care about the sacredness of life--- that little girls QUALITY of life is sacred too, and NO ONE has the right to tell her she must have that child. my philosphy is if you are pro life, then DONT HAVE AN ABORTION. otherwise keep out of it, its a destressing thing enough as it is, these women dont need scorpians jumping down their thoats.

yes, this is a topic that i feel very strongly about. haha.

Yes, you are right... Sometimes, isht happens...

But, IMHO, I think that ultimately, women must control there reproductive health at all times no matter what and cannot rely on anyone to "do right by them"... If women want to call themselves responsible adults, then they MUST do it... Otherwise, IMO, it is irresponsible--especially when one is suppose to know where babies come from...

If the woman gets the condoms herself for her man, since that is the only "natural" way to get pregnant, which is scientifically proven, then the oneous is on her to purchase the "safer" condom... Latex with spermicide...

Pill failure is a whole 'nother topic...

However, I know of SEVERAL women in their 30's that have "trapped" their man into marriage because of pregnancy... That is my issue of it most... Do I think these women ought to have aborted, I dunno... But what I can say, the person that is affected the most is the one who didn't ask to be here...

There are several possible scenarios where a woman is pregnant and in the position of deciding whether to have an abortion...

- The mother's life is endangered by the pregnancy
- It is unlikely that the fetus would survive to birth or much beyond birth
- The fetus has a genetic disorder or serious physical or mental deformity
- The mother was raped
- The mother was the victim of incest
- The parents had unprotected sex
- The parents used protection, but the protection failed
- The parents were actually trying for a baby but the mother changed her mind
- The parents wanted a boy but got a girl (or vice versa)

(have I missed anything?)

I'm in full support of a woman's right to choose. I have to say, though, the last two scenarios I listed make me somewhat uncomfortable.

Personally - my husband and I are not trying for a baby right now (much to my mother-in-law's disappointment ;) ), but if an "accident" were to happen I'd keep the baby and just get our family started earlier than I'd planned.

If (God forbid) my life or the baby's were endangered, or I were raped, I would probably not keep the baby.

I also draw the line at partial-birth abortions - ugh. If you haven't decided on abortion by that late in the pregnancy, when you've had several months to make up your mind, just have the kid.

One question...
 

I thought that some states have a law that if any "fetus" past a certain age, especially during 3rd trimester would have to be "C sectioned" and if the resulting child can breathe on its own without massive help other than the neonatal, preemie oxygen tube, then the medical community MUST keep the child alive? Am I wrong?

On that know, I know a woman that was forced to give birth to her child at 5-6 months in the womb. And the child was on "respiration" and many other things for a good solid 6 months... Until all its organs could function on its own... I met the child when he was 2-3 years of age... So it is possible for some preemies to survive when removed from the womb at late 2nd and during 3 trimesters... How it is exactly done, I dunno...

I don't know about other pro-choicers, but for me the really late-term stuff is a whole different thing. From what I know, these abortions make up a very small precentage of all abortions- they are rare- and they are only done in cases of medical necessity nowadays. I don't think that any pregnant lady who changes her mind that late in the game can just get one.

So for the sake of arguing about whether abortion is right or wrong (or should be legal/illegal) I think it makes more sense to talk about the type of abortions that make up the vast majority of the procedures done today- the 1st-trimester ones.

I also think it's a legitimate position to say that early abortions for whatever reason should be kept legal, but late abortions when the fetus could arguably survive outside the womb should be restricted to special cases (mainly medical necessity). What I mean to say by this is that plenty of people who call themselves pro-choice would not be in favor of allowing the really gruesome late-term abortions for elective reasons.

If it's medically necessary, particularly if it's something that could not have been foreseen earlier in the pregnancy, that's a different matter. But theoretically, a woman could decide one day before she's due to give birth that she doesn't want the baby... that's the idea I don't like. (And you're right, most doctors would probably say what I'm saying - just have the kid, and put the kid up for adoption if you really don't want him/her.)

Late-term abortions are major surgery. If you're going to have an abortion, best to do it early.

Although I don't think I would have an abortion (except in extreme cases of rape/health complications), I don't believe it's my place or anyone else's place - especially the government - to tell a woman what to do with her body.

Re: Abortion... please don't flame!
 

I am basically Pro-Life, but was not when I was in college (just so you know where I stand).

In the scenario of your first paragraph, I think you would find that only the most rabid of Pro-Life groups would disagree with this abortion. I highly doubt that anyone would argue with a tubal preganancy or other high-risk, life-or-death termination.

I'm sure that good people have had abortions. I'm sure that some women never feel any guilt, and others are bereft by their loss. I personally can quickly name at least 10 people who have had multiple abortions for whatever reason.

While I became Pro-Life earlier, my personal experience has lead me to cross the line into Very Pro-Life. I have had two miscarriages, one at 10 weeks (from being beaten), the other at 16 weeks (from a mistake in medication). No one will ever be able to convince me that what I saw each time was not a child, but a mass of tissue! I look at children who are the same age as my children would be and wonder what mine would have been like. Not a day goes by that I don't think about them.

Yet, I've had friends who've chose to abort come to me for comfort. It's a sickening choice to make, and once the deed is done, we need to be comforters, not judges.

I am very pro-choice, and believe that abortion should be legal. After all, this is the land of the free, right? I think if it were to be completely unconstitutional, that's starting to bring relgion into our government (as if we dont have enough issues with that now...) and that would just be a huge mess. However, I do think it should be carfeully regulated and women and men should be educated from a very young age that it is NOT a form of birth control-- it's a last ditch effort, basically. If families wish to raise their children with the ideals of their religion, then so be it. I do believe that the issue of the unborn child is important, but I think it should be up to the woman/people involved.
I was raped when I was 15 by a complete stranger. Luckily I didn't become pregnant, but I could have. Ever since then I have been pro-choice. I could have been a mother at 15, not able to provide anything for the child, not able to take care of myself, and not even finished my junior year of high school.

What exactly is considered a late-term abortion?

Depending on the answer to this, I may have more questions.

I'm pretty rabidly pro-choice. I don't know how easy it would be for me to decide to have an abortion, but I know that I do not want children nor the burden of carrying a child.

A late-term abortion is when the fetus is arguably viable outside the mother's body (probably with the help of technology)- at least that's what I mean when I talk about it. Certainly partial-birth abortions in the 3rd trimester would fall into this category.

I think it's not exactly clear when the fetus's development/moral significance crosses over from being a "ball of cells" to personhood, but it's probably somewhere in the end of the second trimester. Since scientific opinions still differ, it may be best left up to each woman and her doctor to decide where that line is drawn. We may never know for certain.

pro-choicer
 

most definitely...my thing is i am not in favor of those that use abortion as a form of birth control.

in cases of incest and rape...no doubt about it!!!

most people say if you do the deed, keep the seed but it's not that easy if you are not ready mental, emotional and physical to take care of a child. children are expensive. you have to be prepared. i would definitely hate to see another unwanted child grow up in foster homes, young teenage mothers, abused and unwanted because this was not an option.

AMEN KillarneyRose!!!!! You took the words right out of my mouth!!!! :)

I am pro-choice and I know that there are a lot of other opinions going on out there. I once had a conversation with a friend and she said that God was the one who created that life, no matter how the life was created, so what right would anyone have to get rid of life? I had to argue over that. I mean in cases of rape, incest, life threatning situations, or you can't just afford to take care of a people whether it's because of financial responsibilities or you're just not ready for motherhood, what else is there to do? It's hard for a mother to give up her own child up for adoption because there is nothing stronger than a mother's bond for her own child. Plus the baby is still quite undevloped at such a young age and it's not as if you go up to a pregnant person and ask, "So how is your fetus doing?"

Let's be honest...
 

Let's be honest, abortion--whether to have one or not--is a political issue...

For example, how much does it cost for a 1st trimester abortion these days?

If it is in the $250 range, what kind of poverty strickened teenager is really going to afford a medically safe abortion?

Really, how many of us on GC are willing to say they had an abortion and can really speak on having one, then telling another woman on what to do in that similar situation?

I cannot because I have never been pregnant in my life...

Aside from that, who really are the type of women that actually have the abortions? And I am only talking about the medically safe 1st trimester ones--not partial births--because that may be another topic for a different day.

Re: Let's be honest...
 

Here's an interesting and somewhat shocking statistic:

"Almost half of American women (43 percent) will have an abortion sometime in their lifetime."

The short article that it came from has lots of other interesting stats about who gets abortions and why: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

If you're interested I'd really recommend taking a look at that Fox News link.

Re: Re: Let's be honest...
 

That's interesting, 'cuz I just read that article and what's even more mind blowing is that:

Yet, the say:

So I am a little confused about this, if in 1995, at least 47% of the women are aged 25 or older that are selecting abortion, then why are we having issues with teenagers?

It goes back to an old topic I posted:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...out+of+wedlock

Re: Let's be honest...
 

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this question. Women who have abortions are women who for whatever reason do not want to have a child. I think that is all we can say about them.

I work as an admin assistant at an abortion clinic. I am very pro-choice. Even more so since I started there. I can't say that I would never have one myself. But I can never say never either.

Since I've started working there, it have been a really eye opener. I can just imagine the stress the woman must be under. Making the appointment,getting past the protesters,coming in a going thur the steps for the procedure. It's very difficult and very time consuming. So I could never past judgment on anybody who choice to terminate for whatever reason.

Re: Re: Let's be honest...
 

Suffice to say, there is still a whole range of emotions that prompts a woman to consider having an abortion...

Which is why I say that none of us in here who have NOT had an abortion can really say anything to anyone about whether or not to have one... We have not encountered that situation nor do we really know what one goes thru one's mind to consider such an issue...

All we can say it what each of us individually would do if we were to find ourselves in that situation...

And I am still waiting for a woman on GC to proclaim she has had an abortion and to give us her reasons as to why she made that choice. Hey, yes, it is none of my business. And really I do not care. But this issue from all the posts that I can deduce begs the question, should a woman be ashamed of getting pregnant out of the boundaries of a commited relationship--nuclear family and stuff--and then deciding to have an abortion?

Hey, being a single parent isn't such a big deal as it use to be at least 10 years ago... But some us would not choose to take one that cavalier attitude... I just raise the tough questions...