Why is AI so long???
 

I started to hijack another thread then thought better.

This isn't directed towards anyone in particular, I would just really like to know the answer from another GLO. If you want to just PM me, feel free.

Why does this take so long???????

Is it because the PNAM is looking at more than one group (which is perfectly understandable, we all did that during recruitment) or do some GLO's make them go through more than we do? Is it the alumnae chapters not knowing what AI is? I can understand summer getting in the way (no events) and the fact that most chapters only have initiation twice a year (assumes formal and informal recruitment).

I guess I'd really just like to know how the GLO's could do better.......

We took about 9 months with our last AI (my alumnae chapter) but we had the initiation issue mentioned above. But the woman knew after only a few months that she was going to be initiated and then it was just waiting for the date.

I really just don't understand what makes it take a year or more........

Well I think with some is if you are pursuing AI in the summer, you pretty much have to wait until the school year starts.

With some chapters, you have to have recs from 3 sisters and then get hooked up with the Alum chapter. If the Alums don't meet that often that could be a problem.

And then again some are clueless to AI

Thoughts?

It also depends on if you are corresponding with someone who has a tendency to, uh..."drop the ball".

You can also meet "pooh pooh'ers" who do not support the idea of AI, so you have to win them over as well, which could take some time.

Also, some alumnae chapters don't meet that often.

And....some chapters only initiate once a year. The AI might have to wait for that initaition to "come round" again, if they missed it.
In DG, initiation date have to be lodged and approved with EO, so it's not easily done if someone missed an initiation date.

It didn't take me that long, well, not as long as others. From start (first contact) to finish (initiation), my process was just over 4 months. I knew that I would be invited to pledge Alpha Phi only three weeks after I first contacted them.

Like Jill said, if you contact groups during their inactive period (like summer) or during holidays, it might take a little bit longer. Also, while some (inter)national organizations are very supportive of and open to alumnae initiation, the final decision rests with the local chapter -- and they might not want to do it (and leave the PNAM hanging) :mad: .

I can understand being cautious about who you bring in as an alumna initiate, but c'mon -- during recruitment, you're supposed to know everything about a woman in a week or 10 days, and at the end of that she's given a bid. Sometimes it seems that alumna initiates have to "earn" their letters, especially if they're coming in as unknowns.

I think that comparing Formal Recruitment to AI is like comparing apples to oranges. When someone goes through FR they go through an arduous multi-round mutual selection process. I find the insinuation that going through FR is "so quick and easy" really insulting. I think both processes have their own challenges.

With AI it can take quite a while before the alum group members know the candidate well enough to recommend her for initiation. If the candidate is already friends, family or works with members it is a different story. I think that Navene said something in her thread about "Exclusively for Everybody." Every organization wants to get to know people to see if they meet the standards and ideals of the organization and to see if they will "fit-in" with the area alum group.

You're right. It *would* be really insulting if anyone said formal recruitment was "quick and easy."

It's a good thing that no one did say or insinuate it, esp in this thread.

The discussion was about length of time, not the amount of relative effort or ease.

;)

Adrienne (in her 10th month of AI pursuit)

I'm going to chime in and say where Collegiate Recruitment IS "more straightforward" is that there are formally designated intake dates and times to meet the members......you *KNOW* that if you register for recruitment, pay your fees, and show up to the first round, you *WILL* meet the members. (you may not get a bid, but at least you'll get "face time")

With AI's, they have to work to CREATE the opportunity to EVEN MEET THE MEMBERS TO BEING WITH (they have to work hard to even get the "face time"). This is not so easily done, when alumnae chapters are not that active, or meet infrequently.

I'm not exactly sure what can be done to make this process a bit shorter for PNAMs. The way that the system is currently structured works very well when it works, but it seems that it's a toss up -- no one knows for sure from start to finish how long the process will take because it totally depends on the local chapter.

I don't think that centralized control from the (inter)national offices is the answer.

A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

I just got off the phone with my cousin who is a member of an NPHC sorority, and became a member after she graduated from university.

She told me that every year, her organization places "membership intake" on their calendar of events. All of the current members of the chapter know ahead of time that intake takes place in October (for example), and that if they know any unaffiliated women that they want to introduce to the sorority, that is the time to do it.

She also told me that one of the groups in her town even advertises their intake period in the local newspaper, but in her organization, you must know and be recommended by a member in good standing before you can be invited to membership.

Would something like this work for AI? Say if national organizations took a more active stance toward the process, and encouraged local chapters to set aside a certain period on their calendar of events for introducting PNAMs to the chapter? That way women who don't know current members of the group they're interested in can have an opportunity to meet the group without having to go through such a challenging process that many of our PNAMs have had to endure.

Any thoughts?

Edited to add: another thing that would make the process take less time would be if the actual initiation ceremony could be carried out by the local alums, rather than only by the collegians. My cousin's group handles the initiations at the graduate/alumnae level.

This is exactly the type of conversation I was hoping for..............

Yes, the process works, some of the time. But it seems it could work better and I'm sure there are groups who do it very well and others who would like to do it better.

I'm not sure if a stronger national stance is the answer or not. In some cases it would take an attitude shift away from the "it's only for collegiates" view.

I know in my own org, the answer a PNAM gets from an alumna chapter is sometimes going to vary depending on the chapter she approaches. A stronger program might help that situation.

For those of you who don't remember my original AI thread, this was often the case with me. Some people I contacted were extremely swift. One of the HQ's sent me an info packet of sorts right away. However, when it came to actually getting a hold of the alumnae members, that was a different story.

I don't know what caused them to take so long. It's not as if it just happened to be summertime every single time I e-mailed or something. Plus, when I did get in touch with people, they appeared to know what AI is and seemed ok with the idea. So it wasn't as if there was any confusion about AI, nor was there any "pooh-poohing" attitudes. It was simply a "drop the ball" situation.

.....Kelly :)

Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

Ah now here's a clever idea. This might work for NPC groups as well. Though, I know *I* would feel bad if I contacted a group and they replied with, "Oh, I'm sorry, our membership intake was last month. You'll have to wait until next year." However, I still think having a luncheon afternoon at least once a year where PNAMs can come is a good idea.

.....Kelly :)

Re: Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

Oh god, I would want to be able to do both if it could work. I wouldn't want to have to TELL a PNAM she had to wait, that definitely wouldn't be the answer.

Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

This could get a little sticky because really, all the NPC groups should get a have a "fair chance" with the prospective alumnae intiates (a la Collegiate Recruitment)? I say this because, from what I have learned about the NPHC groups (via GC), you really should know the one that you want (i.e. "do your research") and pursue that one only.

With NPC, we're a bit more forgiving about "shopping around" to find "the right fit". Also, one of the things about my fraternity, is that they take pride in that in the majority of members invited, collegians choose collegians for membership, and that was what was originally intended when the Fraternity was started. I think if there was a formal "intake" period...now you're getting into a grey area, because do all the alumnae groups have a "fair shot" at Prospective Alumnae Initiates? In the collegiate arena, all the collegiate chapters get a "fair shot" at the PNM. If there was one group stating a formal intake period....it could "ruffle" the feathers of other alumnae chapters in the city...hard to say.

I think that would totally depend on the PNAM. If the PNAM knew that there was more than one group she was interested in, then she would have to make that decision about how to handle it. My cousin missed the intake period for her sorority, so she had to wait another year... when you consider the 25 years that passed from when she tried to join as an undergraduate to when she finally became a member, it's worth the wait. ;)

Re: ruffling the feathers of other alumnae groups -- it's a possibility, but then, it's a possibility when you contact more than one group at a time. *shrug*

Edited to add: Woo-hoo! 1000 posts! :)

Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

i kind of like this idea. it sounds like only the members of the org know that oct is the time to bring new pnams to meet the group. i would imagine if someone had a friend who couldn't go to the event in oct, that she could come to the event in nov and get introduced, too.

i think that may also be a great way to find our "lost" sisters!! i wonder how much of a turn out they get for interested pnams, tho.


as for the point about npc wanting to get a fair shot at the pnams, well, isn't one of the recommendations that we give to people that they only look at one group at a time? i seem to remember a post that if you are looking into xyz and abc at the same time, and it comes up at a alum panhel meeting (even if just in passing) then the pnam is likely to be dropped by both orgs bc she isn't serious about them.

Re: Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

Yes, it is and oops, I just realized that I completely contradicted myself. LOL:o


Yes, without divulging too much, this did happen to someone.
I don't have a "perfect answer", so I will just say that if you contact more than 1 group, you need to be very careful and discreet.

In our AC, we discuss AI pretty frequently. We encourage members to bring someone to any event that we sponsor except our Ritual meeting. Our goal is to initiate at least 2 AIs this year.

We are having High Tea at a 4-star hotel and I plan to bring at least 3 people. One who definitely wants to be an AOII if she is offered a bid, one is my aunt who I have been bringing to things for about a year but I can't get her to commit (she's an ob/gyn with little free time), and the other is my MIL who will be wearing her new AOII mother's pin.

http://www.aoiiemporium.com/store/catalog/j12b.jpg

I think my org's process if fairly simple-- the International President officially approves all AIs based on the recommendation received. There may be a month's wait depending on who she confers with-- and then I guess any hold up would be when the next opportunity to intitiate would be. When I initiated, my chapter held ritual just for me alone. But Internationally speaking, we initiate most of our AIs at Convention or other meetings/conferences.

I think this really all comes down to the org's philosophy on membership. (How can I say this correctly?)-- I think it depends on the "center" of the org's membership-- is it collegian or alumnae focused? Who "controls" the International organization in terms of voting? And I think it depends on the level of promotion of AI among the membership. As some have said-- members have a variety of feelings about AI and some do not even know it exists (although I would guess anyone in DG could not say that now!)

Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

This was the case with me.I was asked to join in late September but had to wait until March to initiate with a collegiate chapter.My local AC would have initiated me in December if they could have done it but we all had to wait.
I was also the first AI that my local alumnae chapter had.They weren't sure of the exact procedure at all.That might be a major hold up for many alum chapters.They can't or possibly aren't willing do it if they don't know what to do or if they don't have a clear cut procedure.

Re: Re: A Possible Solution - Borrowed from the NPHC
 

Sorry to respond this way but it's called FINDING OUT what to do. My org is exactly the same way so I'm not directing this to anyone in particular. We've had a lot of info distributed to AC President's, general members, etc and people STILL don't seem to have a clue all the time. I didn't know what to do my first time, but rather than say "no, we don't do it" I said "let me find out". And we've now initiated 2 women in our first 3.5 years.

I guess I'm just being rhetorical in my questioning.......

Ok, I need to clarify something..........

My remark wasn't directed towards anyone on this board at all, and no one ticked me off with any comment. I've heard the same comment from people within my own org and that's more where my frustration on this topic comes from.

That and the fact that it's been too long of a week........

I'm sorry if it came off that way (which after reading it again, it might have).

Taking so long
 

I have said this before, so please be patient with my ramblings.....but, from my perspective as both an AI and as a sponsor of AI's, I can see that timing REALLY depends on the collegiate chapter and the sponsor. If the collegiate chapter is not familiar with AI or is leery of AI, more time typically passes. If the sponsor is not calling the collegiate chapter president frequently until the initiation date is set, more time passes. I feel it is crucial to have a sponsor who will actaully go to the collegiate chapter's meetings on behalf of a prospective AI.

Another thought, I know that many NPC orgs are trying to educate all of their membership about the availability of AI. AOII has a wonderful new AI packet to explain the process to collegians, info on our web pages, and a prospective AI membership packet. However, if roughly 10 women per year internationally are initiated through AI, the average collegiate chapter still may not have enough experience with the process for it to go smoothly the first time, and EACH new AI may be facing a chapter with no experience (again from sheer numbers).

I also feel that small numbers of AI is why events are not held to recruit more AI. I love Rose's idea of trying to recruit at the Alumnae Chapter level with an event for AI....especially if a very open and understanding collegiate chapter is located nearby.

Just my 2 cents.
Silver

AOIISilver,

In AOPi do the collegiate chapters get more invloved in AI? For us, they simply sign the form acknowledging they know about it and let us know when initiation will be. They don't get involved at all in the AI process. It's all alum chapter.

I find it so interesting to see how each organization has its own way of dealing with AI. I say that because of the mention of collegiate chapters being involved. When I was initiated, I had virtually no contact with a collegiate chapter. Everything was done through the alumnae chapter, and then I was initiated at a regional conference. There were collegians at the conference, but that was the first time I ever encountered them.

Okay, in LXA an AIPM has to be someone who has shown a want to be, give of himself, and show that he is interested.


That person will not go through our Ritual but sit and obsever what a New Associate is going through!

So, do Soroitys have different Ritual for PNAIM than College Initiates?

I have been wondering this the whole time you are discusing this!:confused:

I also like the idea of a set time for AI. This gives them a chance for a date to work and shoot for. Closuer so to speak!:)

Some of the delay for women who are currently in process of seeking AI is likely due to summer and both collegiate and alumnae chapters not meeting. Even if someone was approved for AI tomorrow, they would not be initiated until the chapter held their next initiation ceremony.

I'm curious, Valkyrie, since I am identified by my chapter of initiation, if you were initiated by alumnae at a regional conference, do you have a chapter designation? AI within Pi Phi requires involvement of a chapter (even if the ceremony itself is done as part of convention or seminar) whether it was a chapter or alumnae club that started the process, both are required.

Hi dakareng,

Valkyrie is an Alpha Phi. If I understand correctly, Alpha Phi has a special chapter designation exclusively for alumnae initiates. I think that designation is "Alpha Lambda". Though, I cannot speak for whether or not the collegiate chapter must be involved or not.

PNAM,

.....Kelly :)

AOII
 

In AOII, only collegiate chapters may initiate. Therefore, almost the entire AI process in AOII involves working with a collegiate chapter.

Does that make sense?

There have been AI who have been initiated at National Convention; however, those members were still initiated "through" a collegiate chapter.

I also agree that summer adds to the wait. :)

Have a blessed day.
Silver

Chapter Designation
 

For DPhiE, since collegiate chapter endorsement is not necessary, I believe chapter designation is determined by the AI. Most of the AIs are involved with a chapter-- as an advisor, house management, mother, colony member, went to school there etc.--and they will of course choose to be a member of that chapter.

I have also seen where someone may not be involved with or have ties to one particular chapter and they have chosen to designate Alpha chapter as their chapter-- or a chapter from a location that means something to them ie they used to live in Iris, so they chose Iris University. I think that is fairly rare though.

Alpha Lambda is the traditional designation, but if Alpha Phi alumnae initiates have a special connection to the chapter that initiates them, they can be listed as members of that chapter. I'm in the process of seeing if I can change my chapter designation from Alpha Lambda to Beta Theta. :)

Re: AOII
 

That's how it is for us as well. But that's the only time the collegiates get involved. They tell us the date they are scheduling initiation, and we show up.

Our AI's will be designated by the collegiate chapter who initiates them. Any initiations at convention will be done by the local collegiate chapter.

Actually although you can identify yourself with Beta Theta, you would always be identified with the Alpha Lambda chapter in terms of Alpha Phi International records in the computer system.

As a fellow AI, although I identify with my collegiate chapter (since I was a colony member that wasn't installed until after graduation) I also believe its important we make it known that we are AI's.

If you find your group through an alum chapter, I personally think this makes much more sense. For example, one of our alum initiates is from Texas but her chapter designation is that of a chapter in Michigan since that's where her sponsor was from. I doubt if she has ever even been to Michigan...I would feel very funny saying "I am a member of so and so chapter" if my only connection to it was a single member.

However, if you're a colony member or longtime advisor being initiated, or you have a lot of interaction with the collegians prior to your initiation (see post below), I would say go with the chapter you have been attached to.

Collegiate connection
 

The AI collegiate connection seems to be closer for us...in addition to initiation, the collegiate chapter must approve the AI, and the AI may have her new member education through the collegiate chapter as well.

Just curious, does this also apply to GPhiB?
Silver

i am not an expert in phi mu's ai process, but i did have an ai initiated at the same time i was. she definately had NOTHING to do with the collegiate chapter as far as her new member education. we never even saw her until inititation night. we just thought she was an alum that we hadn't met yet...lol...and then she was in line with us to enter the chapel (where we held initiation). it was a little awkward so i wish that we at least knew that she was coming. for the two people i know who have done ai, the alum chapter president and the chapter advisor of the collegiate chapter had to sign paperwork. the collegiate chapter is basically responsible for letting the ai know when and where initiation is going to be held!

Re: Collegiate connection
 

I will preface this by saying I only know how my alumnae chapter handled the two AI's we have done (and who knows if we did it correctly, but we followed the instructions).

No, it doesn't. Technically, the collegiate chapter President signs the form, but that's it. And the AI's go through education with their sponsors. In the case of my alumnae chapter, the collegiate chapter we support is about an hour away and would be a long drive for many women. And we stress involvement with the alumnae chapter over involvement with the collegiate chapter (hell, a lot of our regular members don't support the collegiate chapter). I think it would be great though if they could go through the new member ed program with the collegiates though.

When I was initiated it was a little awkward for me, too, bec everyone was like "who is she?" but I made a joke that I had failed the pledge test 15 times and then said: "It is DELTA Gamma, right?" They got a good laugh!

hysterical
 

DGMarie,
That is the funniest thing that I have ever heard. You go, girl!
:)
Silver
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Too funny!
 

DGMarie your to funny!:D I walked inot Initation and all these girlsd looked at me and said are you an alum and i said no not exactly i am the mystery pledge sister you didn't see all quarter long!hehe


Seriously though, I was one of the fortunate ones i must say. My Alpha Phi GC sisters know how quick it went for me. many commented how quick my AI process really was. They also know the frustration i went thru in waiting.


They say timing is everything and i truly believe that. lauradav mention that it was insulting and in some sense maybe it is but it is also unfair to make a woman wait and wonder well do they want me or dont they. That is is insulting too. When FR is only days and AI can take up to a yr...it is frustrating! Sistermadly and I were just discussing this the other day and the fact some on here have been waiting forever to find there home.

I contacted EO and they inturned contacted me a day later and that same day i heard from my first Alum Chapter ( the president) that i initiated into. I met them and they before even meeting me had the application for me to fill out and send in to EO. I was to be initiated in June in the spring initiation class but with convention and timing as well as the US mail it got pushed to fall initation. EIther way it comes to timing most of the time.

Ladies you got to rememebr that AI is farely new to the majority of groups. Let me say if i knew A Phi had AI in place yrs and yes ago i would be a member already but the groups that are NPC and those groups being around when i graduated college in 95 did not know of AI.

Yes chapters are very leary of what Ai is. Were all leary of new things. But we have got to get into the new century this isn't 1960s or 70s or 80 any longer this is 2003 and sorority life has come a long way from what it use to be and we should be open to all women who wishes to take part in our sisterhoods.


FR and AI are two forms of membership and yes each have some flaws but they also have some good things about htem too. I am the first to tell you i don't like to wait, i get to impatient but i understand why we are selective. Because we want the best for our GLO and we want the very best to be our sisters!


Laura