New Alcohol Policy
 

I was just wondering what other Gamma Phi Beta's thought about the new alcohol policy?
Are any other organizations being forced to have a new alcohol policy too?

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Don't look to the future
or dwell in the past
But live for the moment
and long it will last

I'm assuming your new alcohol policy is something along the lines of you can't have it anymore? I was just curious what the details of this policy were. Thanks

AXPAlum

i'm not sure of all the details, but as a chapter we can't step foot on the grounds of another frat or sorority that as a chapter isn't dry. We can not have things such as socials and events with the frat or sorority unless they are dry.
We have been a dry sorority for quite sometime now, (no drinking in letters, no drinking in our house, no drinking at socials or other events) but i am afraid that as a social sorority we will lose the social aspect of things.

[This message has been edited by FlyPhi (edited July 19, 2000).]

That seems a bit extreme. You're telling me that if a fraternity that wasn't dry wanted to have an event with you, even if it was dry, it couldn't be at their house?

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Oh ok, they recently voted on this at my school too for all sororities this past year. Yea, no alcoholic mixers, can't associate with fraternities that aren't dry. This is just another stupid policy that attempts to divide the greeks or force us to comply with every rule of the university. What surprises me is the politics involved and how the soroities don't seem to argue this policy because they are too scared to lose their charters. I admit, alcohol is a losing argument to fight about most of the time, but still I thought many people accepted this rule blindly and didn't really discuss it enough. Nevertheless, most alcoholic events at fraternities houses are illegal, so I don't think this policy will change much of the socializing among fraternities and sororities.

AXPAlum

All 26 NPC sororities passed some sort of resolution in support of the fraternities that are going dry. The policies vary...

Alpha Xi Delta, KKG, & Pi Beta Phi cannot have a co-sponsored event with a fraternity that isn’t dry nationally or chapter-wise. All their events have to be dry. (It sounds like Gamma Phi Beta has gone to this too)

There are about 10 more who can only co-sponsor functions if the FUNCTIONS (not necessarily the fraternities) are alcohol free.

And the rest are “supporting” the fraternities that have gone nationally or chapter-ly dry. Which to my understanding basically means “It’s really cool that y’all are doing this and we really respect & admire you for it. We’re going over to the DKE house & have another Corona.”

If you’re in that first category, it might work if your whole system goes dry or you’re at a big school, but what if you’re at a school with only one dry frat & they suck? (Not because they’re dry, but because they always sucked) I can just imagine rush..."You mix with one frat all the time? Thank you, bye."

We will see how this all sticks if rush #’s start drying up. (no pun)

The purpose of this policy is not to penalize fraternities and sororities, it is to ensure that fraternities that are dry are given an equal chance to compete socially. The new NPC policy states that NPC sororities will not participate in a social mixer, on fraternity property, where alcohol is present. While the 26 sororities have taken three different stances (facilities, function, and support)they have all agreed that there will be no alcohol invoved in mixers taking place on fraternity property. The facilities policy is the most strict (no functions at the houses of fraternities that are not dry). The support policy actually means that those sororities support the policy itself and are still deciding which stance they want to take within the perameters of the policy itself. It all seems a little confusing but as a member of out Executive Board for Panhel, I attended the Panhellenic Conference for the South East US and many of the workshops were geared toward clarifying this policy. The main goals of this policy are (A) to reduce the amount of liability placed on chapters themselves by encouraging social events involving alcohol to move outside the fraternities houses and place that liability on a third party (bars, rental halls) and off of the chapter and (B) support IFC (NIC) fraternities that decide to go dry by ensuring a level playing field for them to compete socially.
I encourage you to contact Panhellenic for more information. They have sent informational packets and alternative social solutions to you college Panhellenic.

Well,

This is the first I've heard of 3 different stances sororities are allowed to take. Unfortunately, the only one that is being used or discussed is the facilities policy, no socializing with fraternities that are not dry. I'm sure these policies are making everyone look great and feel proud, but do you really think it will accomplish anything? The only real purpose I see in the new alcohol policy is that NPC is just putting pressure on fraternities to "go dry or don't talk to us," simply put. How exactly is that leveling the playing field? Your trying to keep sororities from associating with fraternities. That doesn't appear to be fair and equal in my opinion.

AXPAlum

Alpha Chi Omega just wrapped up National Convention 2000, and we are now also adopting not only the dry policy, but also the no events with non-dry other houses. All I will comment on right now is to say I wonder how this will all turn out.

So there's no socializing AT ALL with non-dry houses? I'm sorry, but that is retarded! I can totally understand not being able to do something where alcohol is involved, and maybe even not having events AT non-dry houses, but not even being able to rent a hall, or have it somewhere at the school? I don't get it. I guess eventually LCA won't have anything to do with sororities, because we have no plans of going dry any time soon, at least as far as I know.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

That is not what "facilities" means. AXO, KKG, Pi Beta Phi and other sororities that have taken this stance cannot have any functions at a non dry fraternity house. But they are stll permitted to have functions at other venues (bars, rented halls) Tri Delt for example can still have a cook out (as long as there is no alcohol) at a house that is not dry as long as the event is. Miseducation is one reason this policy seems crazy. All it is doing is moving alcohol related events out of the frat houses.

Alright,

Now I thought I had it all figured out but I'm back to square one. First it was suggested that the facilities policy is the most strict and you can't have functions with a non-dry fraternity, now the definition is changing to you can have functions with them, but only at a location other than their chapter house. Ok, now if sororities adopt a dry policy too, they aren't allowed to even go to a bar to associate with the non-dry fraternities. So, basically put, this policy forces a non-dry fraternity to spend a lot of money so that they can rent out another venue and have a non-alcoholic function with a sorority. Hmm, ok, I don't think miseducation of this policy is the problem here. I believe this policy is making a clear point that NPC will no longer cooperate with fraternities that use alcohol. Yes, I understand you have many different levels on the policy. But if NPC really wants to help reduce alcohol related problems in sororities and fraternities, telling someon you can't do this makes them want it even more. And they'll probably hold illegal unregistered functions to do it too. Why not adopt an alcohol-education policy where you can help create awareness and treat them like responsible and mature people? Maybe I still don't see the policy clearly, perhaps if there is a link on the web that has the exact language of the policy, someone would be kind enough to post it and allow us to read it for ourselves. Thanks

AXPAlum

Ummm...

The way I read this handout we got from our national HQ, regarding that first category, it doesn’t say anything about you can go with 3rd party vendors. It says that if the fraternity isn’t dry, you can’t co-sponsor a function with them, period. I might be reading it wrong but that’s the impression I got. I was also looking at Alpha Xi Delta’s website and they say on there “anywhere there are 2 AXD’s, there is an AXD function.”

Well gee if my sorority followed that policy, I guess every day I go to work is a sorority event since another alum sister works with me!!

I’ll bring the handout with me on Monday & quote it verbatim. In the meantime, are there any KKG’s, Pi Phi’s or AXD’s that can help us out?

I just really think this policy is being adopted way too soon since many aren't positive as to what they can or cannot do. What is the big rush with this? Is it the media attention that NPC wants to get? Something just doesn't stand correctly with all this. Even when fraternities that were going dry where told of their policy, it was not immediate, many are just starting this year and will be doing it carefully. All of a sudden, sororities going dry before they know about it. Oh well, if that's the game they want to play, maybe fraternities will have to adopt a non-dry sorority policy just to level the playing field. I just hope NPC is prepared for all the consequences of rushing into a serious policy like this.

AXPAlum

this alcohol policy kinda hits my organization pretty hard as well. sigma alpha iota is nationally dry, and can't hold a co-sponsored event if there will be alcohol. we can't even be affiliated with it. i found it quite interesting that AXD has the policy they do...by seeing the girls on my campus, i never would have known. but i CAN relate to the "when there are two AXD's together, that is an AXD function" SAI really works in the same way. now, this doesn't mean that when we're talking on our way to class together, it's an SAI event, but it DOES mean that when there's a party and SAI's are hanging out together, we're expected to act like SAI's-follow the guidelines set forth in our bylaws and such. it CAN be a pain, but it really shows a lot of integrity...

etienne
sigma alpha iota-the hartt school of music

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"red is the color of music and has been since the very earliest of times. the caps of faeries and musicians are well-nigh always red."~*~w.b.yeats

"I think that happiness is when you can let yourself feel every emotion you want at any time instead of being a lying little fuck." - Tori Amos

The official Panhel Website is being updated but various schools have posted the policy on their websites

<www.users.muohio.edu/saf/mmge/AlcoholContextSummary.htm>

<www.unc.edu/depts/greek/RM70.htm>

Panhel,

Thanks for your post, I read through the web sites but I didn't see anything about the facilities policy or support policy in the resolution. Perhaps there is another document in more detail that isn't available yet for us to read? However, just by reading all that, I really think the main concern here is money. The statistics bring up higher insurance costs and how much cheaper things will be without alcohol. Don't get me wrong, alcohol is a definite financial risk, but wouldn't spending more money on alcohol awareness programs, tips training, and other activities be more important than passing resolutions? I know alcohol is a problem at colleges, but if you say its all because of the greeks then what does that do? People will think that as long as they are not greek, they won't have an alcohol problem and not join greek organizations. Maybe I'm not completely understanding the purpose of all these anti-alcohol policies, but I do know that making activities for everyone is more important than passing rules without alternatives being offered. I really hope that everyone involved in creating these policies doesn't stop when everyone ratifies them, because your work is just beginning if you want to eliminate alcohol-related deaths.

RUgreek

i didn't realize that all the other sororities are having to deal with this too!

Is the policy discussed in this thread still around?

I was never aware.

Yes.

For Alpha Xi, we can co-sponsor a function at a men's fraternity house if that fraternity is dry.

We can co-sponsor a function with a men's fraternity that is not dry if said function is held off-campus w/ a licensed 3rd party vendor.

I went back and did some searching. Here's another thread that discusses this policy briefly.

It's amazing - here it is, four years later, and there's still misconceptions about how the policy works.

dry?
 

Somewhere along the line I missed something...
As a field rep in the 50s, the rank and file men's groups had
no booze in the house, period.
We had no keggers, recognized, and never, ever, had booze
on our breath whilst greeting school officials or visitors.
We did not piss on the Pike porch or vomit in the Beta house.
We were expected to use DISCRETION, manners, and obey the
existing (under/over 21 laws). If we were to break these laws,
we had private gatherings, away from the house, and took our
chances. We did not flaunt it...
Risk Management and the administrative structures of colleges
have changed all this. Young people, defiant, insist on drinking
in the house, rejecting housemothers, and they have reaped the
consequences. As a Board member for decades, I will not be in
support of in-house boozing nor overtly condone underage drinking. Dumb, plain dumb. Why allow the neophytes to get
fall down drunk, and then tell the world we are responsible and
trying to educate for brotherhood.
You guys, not us old ones, are the ones who are pottying in your
chili...and it is heartbreaking to try to pick up the pieces.

Now how does a fraternity that does not have a dry only policy, yet has a "dry house" fit in all this? Does the "dry house" take precedent over the "wet fraternity"?

In other words, say ABC does not have a dry policy yet has a chapter on a campus that is dry. By *definition* ABC's chapter is a dry house "on this campus". Does Alpha Xi - or other sororities - allow for their Alpha Xi chapter to have an event at the ABC house?

And what would happen if you went to another campus? Say you went to a football game on another campus and went to a fraternity that happened to be "wet", yet on your campus, was dry?

Y'all know what. After reading all this, I think I need a drink. :p

I would say it depends on the individual chapter. TKE isn't dry nationally, but if they are on your campus for whatever reason, A Xi D can mix with them in their house. If you go to another campus and want to party with that TKE chapter and they are wet, you can't go to their house, you have to go to a TPV.

That original post was 4 years ago.. and still nobody understands it. I'd say that means it's a bad policy.

I believe AGDs stance is that we are not to have alcohol parties in fraternity houses that are supposed to be dry. So we support their dryness and do not go against their Fraternity's policy. I remember sending reminders to my chapters that they weren't allowed to have parties with alcohol with that list of Fraternities.


Dee

Damn I must be old, I remember that post and my entries back in 2000:) The policy there is still stupid in my opinion. I don't see any improvements or changes in safety of greek members because of it and I still believe alternative methods would have been cheaper and more effective. I'd be interested to hear if any group at all saw benefits from the alcohol policies. Party safe, that's all I think should be noted.


RUgreek

So I'm slightly confused.

No NPC Org is allowed to have alcohol in their house? Is that anyhouse which is defined as a sorority residence? No matter if it is college owned or sorority property?

And I've never understood the whole thing about wet/dry parties. We used to have a fraternity invite the entire sorority (plus other women not in AST) Some would go, some wouldn't. So that is against policy??

I really don't get these policies, they seem so unclear.

The wet/dry parties thing only applies to mixers, i.e. co-sponsored parties/events for a sorority and a fraternity only. If a fraternity has an open or guest list party and says "hey AST, whoever wants to come down, come on down" that's OK. Unless of course your sorority defines an event as 2-3-4 or more people whether it's co-sponsored or not, then either only one of you can go or the party must be dry.

A sorority house can be defined as sorority property, college property, or Joe the random off-campus landlord's property. If it gives the "appearance" of being a sorority house or is acknowledged as the sorority's house by the campus community it's subject to this policy. What "appearance" consists of varies. A sorority can live in an off-campus house that the national contributes no money to, that only the girls who live in pay to upkeep (i.e. no parlor fees) and that has no letters on the outside, but if people refer to it as the AST house, it has to be alcohol free.

and yes, this is all STOO PID.

Okay, this 2 or more thing is really throwing ya'll off, I think. Lol.

For us, it's not a literal translation (this is what I've always been told, which of course could be wrong. There are many AZD's on here who I'm sure will correct me if I am). It's like, if 2 or more Alpha Xis were to get together, that means that we should not act in any way that would disgrace our fraternity or cause us to incur liability (i.e. hazing the pledges, forcing someone to drink, running around campus naked, etc.) because that could be construed as a sorority function if we were to get sued. Really, we use it as a reminder of how we should act, b/c as we all know here on GC, you represent your GLO 24 hours a day, whether you're drinking at the bar w/o letters on or if you're grocery shopping for your sick mother.

However, If XYZ fraternity is throwing a party on Friday night, and a brother comes up to one of us in Econ Friday afternoon and says, "Hey, we're partying tonight, tell all your sisters," then that's fine. Whomever wants to go can go. That is in no way a co-sponsored event. If all but 5 of the chapter members go to the party, then by definition, it's still not a chapter event.

For us, we are supposed to abide by all state & nat'l laws. So guess what - it's un-AZD like to drink if you're under 21. It's un-AZD like to use illegal drugs. Whether it's one sister or twelve, we're not supposed to do those things. So, if all the sisters that went out to the XYZ party were 21, then they're allowed to drink. The ones that are not 21, if they are drinking, and something were to happen to them, well then of course AZD would get into trouble if one of the sisters were to have provided them w/ the alcohol. However, if no sisters provided her w/ the alcohol, and the brothers of XYZ did, then they would be the ones to get into trouble.

As for the sorority property thing, I guess it depends on your GLO's national rules for whether or not you're supposed to be alcohol-free. For us, if it's something on-campus that isn't an official house (i.e. a hall), it's treated as if it's a sorority property, although it's not technically a sorority property. For example, my undergrad chapter had a hall, and we were supposed to follow all university rules regarding alcohol in the rooms (although we were also supposed to follow AZD rules regarding no alcohol), max. number of persons in the room, etc. If we didn't fill the hall, it's not like we lost the hall, the university would simply assign non-sisters in the remaining spots.

And 33-girl, how many girls have to live in that off-campus house for it to be alcohol-free? I've never heard that one before.

edited b/c i mistyped something. sorry!

Okay, I guess maybe b/c we are one of the groups that has this policy in place, I just don't understand why everyone is so confused.

Here is AXiD670's simplified interpretation of this policy:

• Dry fraternity, dry house - can co-sponsor a mixer with them at their house.
• Wet fraternity, dry house - can co-sponsor a mixer w/ them at their house.
• Wet fraternity, wet house - can co-sponsor a mixer w/ them at a licensed, 3rd party vendor.

All this new rule means is that if the XYZ house is a wet house, we cannot co-sponsor a function w/ them at their house.

Our rules explicity state that the policy does not restrict any member's independent attendance at a fraternity event that is in compliance w/ any applicable state, nat'l or local laws, or university regulations.

As far as a Friday night party at the XYZ house goes, it's a free-for-all. Tailgating, another free-for-all. As long as each individual member is complying w/ any and all applicable laws or regulations, neither she nor the sorority has anything to worry about.

Edited to further explain: If XYZ has a wet house, and they are throwing a Friday night open party, then yes, AZD members can attend this party, b/c it is not a co-sponsored mixer.

discretion
 

Why does the fraternity or sorority have to have booze at all?
The wet/dry thing is hypocritical. Why not drink outside of the
house? The disappearance of the housemother has brought us
another thing...a hovel...houses are horribly kept. Lack of the
old pledge duties-to help keep the houses shipshape-have hurt
us, too. That is not hazing and only the bleeding heart limpdicks
who are not greeks are trying to impose this crap on us...
Until each chapter, locally, in their own way as is done on their own turf, decides to come to grips with the legal/illegal handling
of booze, we will be constantly playing musical chairs, screwing
up with the school and press, and in general...getting a poor quality of member and continued bad rep....
Only you guys can do it...not us old codgers, or nationally...and it
is up to you. Discretion, manners...what happened to them?

I don't understand, just have a policy of expelling all under-age members that you see drinking alcohol. That eliminates most of your liability.

They are breaking the law right? Most other approaches are hypocritical.

Perhaps your houses have become dilapidated and rundown because of low quality members or mismanagement, but I wouldn't try to blame substances like alcohol for that result. Drinking, whether done by underaged or legal members of a house is a problem that needs to be addressed equally throughout the universities. What's the point of coming down with policies on one group when another or the entire non-greek student body can do it without question? This is the problem of enforcement of the one-sided policies.

On top of that, it would be wiser to teach people how to become responsible around alcohol rather than scold them like little children and slap them with fines. Obviously if they are going to do it, then the next step in curtailing the danger and harms of it would be to educate how to prevent problems and promote safety.

My whole point is that while drinking underage is of course illegal - you can't stop it. Do the next best thing, accept the reality of the situation and show students how to manage things and keep everyone alive.

It's just a little ignorant to assume all the problems of poor quality members comes from social activities with alcohol. I've known some pretty horrible houses that ran on substance-free activities. Bad members are the result of environment and probably a bunch of other multiple factors. Guarantee you that even without alcohol houses would still fall apart :)

RUgreek

I feel that if we expelled any member of a greek org who was caught drinking underage, we would kill our organizations. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't think drinking is the cluprit, i think it is lack of education and a lack of an environment that fosters healthy drinking. Apparently we used to flagrantly break the drinking rules in our house, we had no clue it was supposed to be dry. Though we were kind enough to remove our alcohol from the common fridge when nat'l came to visit...:)

I am not sure I like these new alcohol policies. I don't get why NPC has to change on the basis of helping IFC fraternites. I thought that we were independent women's organizations and this seems like it goes against that. If the rational was based more on another factor, i'd have no issue, but to help out dry fraternities...

There is a great quote from earlier in the thread that I think makes a very clear explanation of why these rules were put into place:

I don't think anyone here said the policy is supposed to prevent us from drinking; I think it's supposed to help prevent us from getting sued for drinking. Obviously, a 3rd party vendor is going to do a better job than Sally Sister at prohibiting under-aged members from drinking.

Re the kicking members out for under-aged drinking thing, of course we'd lose all our members if we did that. I think the point James was trying to make was that by us trying to create a rule that eliminates our liability, but not reprimanding our members for not abiding by the law, we're being hypocritical.

I think it's tiresome to say that fraternity houses are messy or dilapidated because of drinking in them. I've seen plenty of dorms and other student apartments where they don't drink and are still messy. If mommy picked up everything before the kid came to school, I don't know why it's assumed he's immediately going to turn into Martha Stewart. This doesn't have to do with drinking, but with responsibility. I would bet the houses that have responsible drinkers in them look better than the ones where the guys do nothing but get poopy-faced.

AXiD670, this is if you have a house off-campus that everyone refers to as "the sorority house." It doesn't apply to 3 girls living in an apartment who happen to be sisters.

And this, to me, is the dumbest thing. I mean, think about what the fraternities that bought this to NPC are saying by asking for our "support." They're saying they don't think girls will want to hang out with their brothers unless booze is involved - which doesn't say much about their opinion of their brothers. They're saying this really isn't a good or popular policy because someone else has to help them enforce it. They're saying they don't really have the guts to strike out on their own without assurance. I mean, when we raised our GPA, I'm sure it hurt our rush at some schools because there were women who couldn't pledge us. We didn't ask other sororities or the fraternities to "support" us. We knew it was the right thing to do and we didn't need to have our choice validated.

If I'm not mistaken, Farmhouse has ALWAYS had dry housing and they've never asked for anyone's "support."

Panhel's statements only discuss the positive aspects of the alcohol policy, but it does not mention the negative effects on the rest of the greek community. While the object is to "level the playing field" for dry fraternities, you are actually discriminating against fraternities that allow alcohol on the premises. And forcing them to seek 3rd party vendors is a financial burden that doesn't seem to hold well. Even believing this policy would work relies on everyone following the rules. I've seen people hold illegal mixers and socials to circumvent the rules. This policy exists only to make people believe the problem is being addressed.

Perhaps this policy is working on some campuses, I really don't know because I've never heard one person mention how great and helpful it was to their organization. But I'm sure that's not the case and still feel their is a more effective hands on approach to the issue that is not being used.

RUgreek

Oh that's a hoot!!!

You said it!