Each child is different. And that is a gauge as to whether physical punishments(beatings)are necessary. When I was little (and according to my mother, I'm not to old to get a whoopin), my mom would say she was so embarrassed or disappointed in what i did. i'd feel bad and not do it again(at least for a little while). My younger sister though, wasn't like me. My mom's disappointment meant nothing to her so a spanking was necessary for her. I don't advocate hurting your child to the point of serious physical harm, but a little spanking can really straighten things out.

We need to recognize that there are young mothers, who can't deal with the stress of making ends meet and a screaming child. Sometimes a spanking is a small stress reliever. i'm not saying all mothers are like that but i have seen it on the bus and other places. That is when spankings aren't disciplinary but harmful.

Without spankings, would you really have so many funny stories to tell your friends about when you were little. You can talk for hours just about that.

Personally when i have children, I will view their characters to determine whether other options may work but if i have an especially mischevious child, he's gonna get it.

Ok Cream Puff, I have two questions for you.
1)What is/was your major?
2) Regarding the above statement...You are joking right?
Just because a person belives in hitting their children, does not mean they are lashing out without asking the child why they did what they did. On the contrary, if a child does something wrong/bad/unbelievable ...the first thing a parent should do is discuss the problem with him/her as to resolve it then and there. Now, if the child keeps "acting out"/being disrespectful (remember you have already discussed the problem as well as the future repurcussions of his/her actions)...then this child needs to be hit, in my opinion. Taking away toys, video games, etc. may work with smaller kids (approx. 3-7 years old) but probably not with older kids. Taking away phone privileges and such with older kids may or may not work, depending on how important what you're taking away is versus how important it is for him/her to keep up the negative behavior. Think about two kids who are always playing with the stove. One child hears about the danger of playing with fire over and over (he gets a few toys taken away, maybe even a time-out)...the other child gets burned. Which child do you think is more likely not to play with the stove again? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif
I do not think parents should ever hit their children in a fit of anger however. They should wait until they have control of their emotions. When I was a child, I could have gotten in trouble at noon and it would be around 10 at night when I "got it". My mother always waited until she had calmed down to discipline my bad *ss! A little spanking never hurt anybody...and remember...all the classes/books in the world can't refute what the good book says.(See topic of this post above)

If people can't deal with making ends meet AND the ups and downs of a child's behavior, they should avail themselves of the many birth prevention resources easily accessible in our country. In other words, don't have the freakin' kids! Beating your kid, when used as a regular means of punishment, becomes useless after a time and most kids decide they'd rather "take the beating/whuppin" than give up whatever behavior caused the discipline in the first place.

Sexy Mocha: I take the aforementioned Biblical phrase as more of a general statement about the importance of good discipline in creating great kids, not a directive to go whup my kid's butt "cuz the Bible says so." In addition to being a religious doctrinal document, the Bible is also an historical one, and reflects the social mores of its time.

I type all this understanding that I am not a parent, and won't REALLY make up my mind about physical discipline until I become one. But I think that showing your kid that it's wrong to, say, hit another kid-by hitting your child-is, to say the least, bass ackwards.

[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited August 17, 2000).]

Rationality is key in displining children.

I think that my father did an excellent job in this department. Since my dad was the primary disciplinarian, he was the one who spanked us.

When he did, we would have a discussion with him. This was an opportunity for us to explain our motivation for doing what we did. Afterward, we would discuss what should have been the proper course of action. Then he would ask us for our thoughts on what our punishment should be. He would add to/ agree with that and that would be the first part of our punishment. We did have an input in our punishment, which helped bring home our own understanding of every action having a consequence. My father would also give us a spanking in addition to the agreed punishment because he knew that the world won't treat us as nice for this behavior, so with a spanking, it would stop there because of a fear of getting caught. He told us that was one of his rationale. In addition, he often quoted Proverbs 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." He told us that it is because of his love for us that he has to do this, and that one day, I would thank him for it.

I'm here to tell you, I am thankful for my father's well thought out methods for discipling me. I've always had that fear of the consequences for wrongful actions. I know right from wrong. I think that when I am blessed to be married and have children, I will ask my husband to follow this model. Because by my mom yielding to my dad on this, we learned about authority (because my father is the head of his house) and consequences.

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I will bless the Lord at ALL times His praise shall continually be in my mouth. (Psalms 34:1, KJV)

[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited August 17, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Discogoddess:
[b]Beating your kid, when used as a regular means of punishment, becomes useless after a time and most kids decide they'd rather "take the beating/whuppin" than give up whatever behavior caused the discipline in the first place.

If a beating/whuppin does not deter a child from refraining from their negative behavior, I doubt very seriously that taking away toys/giving time-outs/or talking a hole in their head will...so that reasoning applies to both sides.

Most parents don't beat their children to relieve stress or because they can't make ends meet (although I know there are those who do). I'm just speaking from experience, as I look back, I thank God my parents gave me the few whuppins that I received ( Lord knows I deserved them!) Sometimes, I feel they didn't give me enough! Notice I said "few" whuppings ...I was no fool, I associated bad actions with bad consequences. That was enough to make me not do whatever it is I had done again! Personally I was, as my mama used to say, a "hard headed black child". All the talking and books in the world would not have stopped me. Now, I admit I don't know too much about the Bible and how to interpret it, but I was always under the impression that God's words were meant to stand the test of time. However, I'm almost positive you ladies read the Word more than I , so if I'm wrong please correct me.




[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 17, 2000).]

[quote]Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:

Quote:

Originally posted by Cream Puff: If that doesn't work you can send them to their room for awhile and tell them when they realize what they've done then they can come out and explain to you what was the 'cause for their wrong doing. Also when a child see other kids are having fun outside and they're home on punishment, they are more likely to apologize (I don't know how sincere it would be) but nevertheless they'll tell you they're sorry and promise they wont ever do that again and ask if they can go out and play [This message has been edited by Cream Puff (edited August 17, 2000).]

Ok Cream Puff, I have two questions for you.
1)What is/was your major?
2) Regarding the above statement...You are joking right?

Mocha, my major is psychology http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif
and no, I am not joking. As I stated before, I am not a parent yet but I honestly believe that this technique should/may work towards the 3-7 year olds. However, with the older kids, this technique probably will not work. I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

I agree; you have to wooup yo chillin' today. If you don't, you'll pay for it-one way or another.

I refuse to have a fresh-mouthed no mannered child because that is not cute. And let me tell you something else, you will not leave this house acting like a neanderthal, and let me hear that you did not listen while you were at Auntie's house, like you don't have no home training, I'll tear that tail up!....

***tickledpink blinking and coming to herself*** Whoa, I flipped into momma mode.... Yes, I believe in spanking. I endured many as a child, and I'm not dead. Also, there came a point in my stubborn childhood when I decided I hated spankings, therefore, I wasn't trying to do (again)whatever it was that got me the spanking in the first place.
Now, my children have 2 different personalities. My son will respond more to the "mommy" face and straighten up. However, I can talk and stare until I'm blue in the face with my daughter, so after warnings, she usually gets a spanking.



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>>>"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."
Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised... Proverbs 31:29-30

Spare the rod, spoil the child??
 

Every now and then my friends and I get on the subject of disciplining children. These conversations always end up in an all out war of words involving those of us who feel like there's nothing wrong with beating children and those (usually the Psych majors) who believe children should never be hit. I have one friend who belives she can use any/all of what she has learned in her psychology classes or from books to raise a well disciplined child without EVER hitting her child http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif. What do you all think?

* When I say beating, I mean the good old fashion beatings we got as children, not beatings that cause broken arms, legs, missing teeth, etc.

I feel there are other ways of disciplining a child without hitting him/her! I see that parents are so quick to lash out on their child(ren) without even asking them what happen or why did he/she did what ever they did. You can punish them by taking away the things they like the most (toys, tv, videogames, etc.)If that doesn't work you can send them to their room for awhile and tell them when they realize what they've done then they can come out and explain to you what was the 'cause for their wrong doing. Also when a child see other kids are having fun outside and they're home on punishment, they are more likely to apologize (I don't know how sincere it would be) but nevertheless they'll tell you they're sorry and promise they wont ever do that again and ask if they can go out and play, I would probably tell them no, so they can really see how serious I was and next time they would think twice about acting out.
Now, I do not have any kids yet, so I'm not basing these techniques on experience. If and when I do have kids, I would have to see if that will work but as for now I don't think hitting kids would help the situation any better.

[This message has been edited by Cream Puff (edited August 17, 2000).]

I got spanked a few times as a child, and no psychological damage/harm was done. So, personally, I don't see anything wrong with that type of discipline. However, I do think it depends on the child and should be used as a last resort if possible.

i believe in spankings-- i can't stand the way these children act today.
first -i lay down the ground rules
second -is a verbal warning
third- "its on!"

I GOT SPANKED!! back in the day it was not child abuse....it was LOVE!....you can't even raise your kids the way YOU want to...the method that worked for your parents and generations before...IS CALLED CHILD ABUSE THESE DAYS

I'm sort of in the middle of the road on this one. On the one hand, I really HATE to spank a child. It doesn't make good sense to me. On the other hand, I'm not trying to raise some bad @ss child so she can take me on Jenny Jones and curse me out (that is just ridiculous). There comes a time when words don't mean a thing to a child. That's when you've gotta 'get the switch out'.

***** Sounding like Cartman *****
You WILL respect my AUTHORITAAAH!
LEARN to respect AUTHORITAAAH!

[This message has been edited by thatgirl (edited August 18, 2000).]

I believe in spankings. My son is five years old and I no longer spank him. Why? Because he knows the difference between right and wrong. I spent 5 years drilling it into him. Now when he misbehaves, I take away his "things". I make him stand with his arms straight out to the side. Everytime he drops his arms, 10 more seconds is added to his time. I make sure I let him know that life is a test of willpower. You have to be strong to resist the temptations of today. Nowadays, kids are just too wild. Not in my house.... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited August 18, 2000).]

I was a psych major and I do feel that spanking CAN be effective if cared out properly. I don't think that you should spank a child everytime that they do something wrong. I have a 11 month old son and right now I do not spank him, and don't plan to for a while. The reasoning is that he has no earthly idea what in the world I am talking about half of the time so why spank him when he's just going to do it again until he can rationalize. I think that's where parents go wrong, they tend to want to think that the child always knows what he or she is talking about. I strongly believe in asking older children why they think they are being disciplined, just to see what their perception is. Yes, I was spanked and I am a law abiding citizen that has not gone out and robbed a bank or committed a murder, but I do think that I probably could have been punished by taking privledges and had better results, because spankings just pissed me off. I also feel like your views change when you become a parent. I know when I was childless I would see children at the mall, SHOWING OUT!!!, and I would say I wish she would beat his/her ass. I know if she whooped him/her they would not act like that. Now that I am a mother my reaction has changed a lot. Every parent know what't best for their child.
I'm steping off of my soap box now.

Spank Spank Spank Spank Spank Spank Spank!!!
And then some more!
I was spanked as a child, it has done no psychological damage to me, and I do believe in spanking your children, but as a "last resort" kind of punishment. God willing that I have children, I think that at times it can be just as effective to take away something they "really love". However, sometimes, they need a little leather to the behind!

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Celebrate life, in all its amazing glory!!!

I've got to agree with Orignal Ape...

You gotta take a rod to your child everyone once and a while...

I and my wife got into a BIG arguement with other Phirst Phamily members about the same subject...

My thing is every but wooping I got when I was a child I deserved (actually I deserved more than I got)

My only problem is that black folks have either gotten bougeois and think that whit folks methodology works...But we are not dealing with "little Billy" and our children have a wholen 'nother set of issues to deal with....

OR

We beat our kids for the wrong things...like puttin out our cigarette and not for them 4 D's they made on that report card...also, WE sometimes go overboard...Black folks give some AWFUL PUNISHMENT...not only do mama got to take that wood to ya'...uncle got get some licks, along with your older cousin who you call "auntie" --- ya'll know it's true

PHI-SKEE,

Ice Cold Kreator

[ there's nothing wrong with beating children and those (usually the Psych majors) who believe children should never be hit.

I've done psych and say let 'em pledge!!

<for all my greeks that stay true>

Ice Cold,
Woooo! You have me rolling on the floor!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I was spanked as a child and I grew up to respect the law. My cousin was spanked as a child and he grew up not to respect the law. Children are individuals and have their own personalities, too, though we often don't realize it, as though the child were a complete creation of the parent.

No, I am not a parent (and no my major was not psych http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ), but I don't think I should have been spanked as a child. I was and still am too smart for that. In fact, I think it may have had some negative effects. And before anyone says that I blame some negative things on spanking and that's illogical, think about how some of the positive things on this board have been attributed to spanking and if that's really logical.

Let me ask you a question. Should adults who break the law be spanked? Or rather, Asia-style, should they be caned? They, like children, obviously haven't learned the difference between right and wrong and have probably been warned several times before. While we're at it, I think, after two speeding ticket warnings and one hasn't learned his lesson, the police should pull him out and spank him. (oh wait, it does go down like that, doesn't it . ..)

No, adults have learned the difference between right and wrong. They do know better, but choose to do otherwise. Personally, I think the punishment that some people receive in certain situations is not tough enough.

So is it that children should only be spanked until they have learned the difference between right and wrong, like adults? And after they know something is wrong and still choose to do it, what is the punishment then?

[This message has been edited by mwedzi (edited August 21, 2000).]

I plan on discliping my children my children the way that my mother disciplined me, which has had no ill effects on me and I completely agree with it. I was spanked as a child until I was about 8 or 9. At that point, I was able to rationalize. In my mother's words, she thought I was too old to spank because I understood right from wrong and was able to make good choices. When I didn't, she was able to talk to me and I understood, and then she promptly punished me. Anyone that has very young children knows that you cannot rationalize with them, and often they're not trying to hear "because I said so", although it is the only answer needed at times. Now, what is the age that children should stopped being spanked? That depends on the maturity of the child.

I still stand by the fact that spanking can be effective, as someone said earlier, if it's used in the right way. Before and after my husband & I spank, we explain to them why they're going to get a spanking (be it that we warned them 3 times and they still chose not to make a good choice or whatever) and tell them that we still love them.

Now don't get me started on adults. No, adults should not be spanked, we're supposed to be able to make competent, rational decisions (although those countries that cane do have a low crime rate....hmmmm...). No, but seriously, our justice system too flawed to think of that --- we all know what the outcome would be --- too close to slavery.



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>>>"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."
Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised... Proverbs 31:29-30

I was a little apprehensive about posting on this thread because it brought back some very bad memories as a child. I think if I were in a position, I would not use spanking as the first means of discipline. I am an intelligent individual and believe that I may be capable of communicating with my child[ren] without the use of a hand, a belt, extention cord etc. I think that there are times in which spanking maybe necessary but I wouldn't condone it to the point where I would have put fear into my kids. That is where the line has been crossed. I do know that I am human, I am my mother's child and I will be prone to make mistakes but communication would be my first step.

Tickledpink, I think that your parents and mine had the same idea in mind when it comes to discipling children.

It is critical that if parents want their children to take them and punishment seriously that there must be a blending of discussion and spanking. As I mentioned before, my father spoke WITH us about what we did, review our motivations, think of a possible alternative the next time that comes up, and help in the design of punishment. He would quote Proverbs 13:24 connoting that it is because of love for his children that he does this as well as an understanding of the reality of the real world that will do more harsh things in the face of our crime.

I am definitely for spanking...but spanking under control. I don't agree with spanking for spanking sake. I've seen too many parents spank and yell at their children in public over small issues. I think that those incidents wouldn't be necessary if they had started a good discipline program early in the child's understanding. For if you start training a child up as early as possible, parents won't have these problems later on. Now, I'm not talking about spanking infant children with a belt. I'm talking about chastising. My mother would make this loud noise "EIIIIIGH" and I would stop that action immediately. Or, she would spank me with her hand (on my bottom or my hand) as an infant/toddler. She would say "Don't do that." "Mommy said NO" and I would stop.

Because of good training in the home, when my mom and dad took me to church, I knew how to be quiet...in restaurants...I didn't make a lot of noise..I was able to enjoy my childhood, but I understood RESTRICTIONS.

I really believe that crime prevention really starts at home. If we could get our values right at home, understand how to train children to respect authority, and love them RIGHT, then we will certainly have a much better society. Don't get me wrong..there are other things that we can all do...but it should really be the parents who talk with their children about RIGHT and WRONG...a belt can't do that by itself. You must discuss right from wrong, and be rational in distributing justice to children.

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I will bless the Lord at ALL times His praise shall continually be in my mouth. (Psalms 34:1, KJV)

[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited August 22, 2000).]

Hello ladies of AKA my name is Tinese of SGRHO. I was looking through various chat rooms when I came upon this topic and I had to respond to the question. I firmly believe in spanking a child when they need it. There are children with different types of personalities where all you have to do is talk to or raise your voice a little and they cry and then there are children who are strong willed and challenging that just talking by itself or placing them on time out will not work. They need to be spanked on their behind in order for them to straighten out. For example, my son is very strong willed. In school he only listen to displinarian type of teachers as opposed to teachers or any adult that won't take his mess. He walks all over adults who are not firm who are soft in the manner of dealing with him. For a child who is strong willed as my son you can do all the talking in the world take away his toys or his priveleges but it won't work unless his behind is torn up from time to time. By the way I use a variety of methods to discipline my son in conjunction with spanking and it works!!

Agreed Tinese. As a matter of fact, I'm giving mine the "evil eye" now... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif