I just saw this topic in another forum and was curious on your take on the situation.

If I had my druthers, no, we wouldn't take women who are pregnant during the membership intake period, or for that matter, new mothers, ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY on the undergraduate level. My sorors may have a difference of opinion, though.

DG

An "old school" soror has spoken...

This has been an issue in another forum...There were times historically, that unwed mothers was socially a NO, NO even in sororities...Times have changed and ideals...
but,there are older Sorors who look down on this, ESPECIALLY among our undergrads...

Anyway, back in the day, as an undergrad, someone who had had a baby became a Soror,and one of my LSs had a baby...to each his or her own...

I am sure there will be many responses to my post and Soror DGs.

Speaking not as a member, but as a sisterfriend, I must say that a mother's first duty should be to her child.

Does anyone have examples of someone who successfully pledged while pregnant, and/or had a child while in undergrad?

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Celebrate life, in all its amazing glory!!!

I know a young lady who was pregnant when she submitted undergrad. She kept her pregnancy a secret until the process was over and of course the graduate advisor wasn't too pleased when she heard the news. A few months after she crossed she had to leave school, so she didn't have time to really work with her chapter.

Speaking from an older sorors prospective.......Let's turn this thing around, to avoid hypocracy. Now, should we let none virgins pledge? How many of my sorors here were virgins when they pledged? Pregnancy is an outward sign (no pun intended) of sexual relations. So what we are saying here is, it is okay to have sex and pledge, just as long as you are not pregnant. I would not wish that on anyone, however, does pregancy really make a young lady any less likely to commit to service?

What are we saying exactly? Food for thought. This topic was on my mind this morning.


Deja

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TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN....MUCH IS EXPECTED.

Although I know this is an extreme, I think it is very close to the truth.

Yes, I am a mother who "pledged" in an undergrad chapter while I had a child. I maintained my GPA, am now an officer in my chapter, am very active in my chapter and am a good mother to my son.

I feel that I have no reason to ever feel that i have to choose between my organization and my son. I want to enstill in my son the same values of sister(well brother)hood and service to his community and country. I don't want to get to rambling (because you know i can easily http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif), but I think it depends on the chapter and how supportive they are as to how being a mother and/or wife will influence your process

I think if the individual is married with or child or if they are single with a child should not matter. That is a form of discrimination. However, pledging whild pregnant, I do not recommend.

There are somethings that may take place while on line that may hinder the rest of the line if one person is pregnant.

Another negative to that situation is when the baby is born; the mother will not have the time to devote to her sorority that she should.

Pinkice

I agree with what Pinkice stated.

Deja, you made me think of something one of my friends from college said. She had a daughter while in high school. She would say that people have sex, and some end up with proof. So, I understand where you are coming from.

I'm not against women with children pledging because my friend did and was a great asset to the sorority she pledged. However, initiation it isn't just about "me" but about "us". I think Pinkice stated that well.

Soror Deja,


I was a virgin!

So much to say.......

1. Why does everyone keep saying 'pledge'? I thought that was a thing of the past.

2. Someone said "ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY in undergrad". Every undergrad is not 19. Would it make a difference if the woman was 25? I do not understand.

3. Do we fail to realize that mothers juggle many things? Why is it such an issue if Sorority participation is added to the fold. I know more parents than I can count that make it their BUSINESS to volunteer and participate in community activities.

4. Which are we more concerned about: our IMAGE or our PEOPLE?

5. If you serve a community in which unwed pregnancy does occur, however it may sadden you, why would you then exclude the very people that you aim to help. You have these young ladies admiring you for taking the time to help them. Would you have them to believe that they are only charity cases, and therefore aren't GOOD enough to have what you have?

Please, help me understand.

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Proverbs 14:7
Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

I said I was going to stay away from this topic, (those of you who have been posting awhile know my views from a previous thread, no need to rehash them) however let me say this. The members of this, or any sorority have a right, by virtue of their membership, to use whatever standards they choose to select members. Saying that single mothers, pregnant women, folks with one toe, men, etc. would not be extended an invitation is no more discriminatory than saying that you have to have a certain GPA to be considered for membership.

The original question is can a person pledge and be pregnant. The answer is yes. There is no rule prohibiting it. Any other answer is entirely someone's opinion. If someone is pregnant and feel they can do it, then more power to them. My opinion has been stated and its not changing.

Eclipse...
mmmmmmmmmm!!!!

ouch!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited August 04, 2000).]

If "pledging" has been replaced with a MIP, that should not harm a pregnant woman, then what is the debate? Are we staying these women are not of moral or high ethical standing? Or are we being hypocrites? Many members at the time they underwent their process were far from being untouched. Therefore what message is being sent to interests? Like someone said not all interests are 19, many are seasoned women, who may be single, seperated, divorced or widowed and still have children.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
- hypocrite adjective

I got this directly from the merriam webster website at www.m-w.com

This definition could apply to many women who look down on single mothers, but are sexually active themselves.

Eclipse, I'm with you. I see your point.

Thank you AKAtude.

That's it for Eclipse, but I am just getting started. First, Well said Eclipse!! Second 'To each her freaking own'!!
The question as Soror AKAtude restated is can it be done, and the answer is yes .. what I see here is females trying to debate why we (members and non members alike) feel that it is wrong or better stated not a choice that we feel is the best. So knowing that my initial feeling is do what is best for you and what you can handle, Pledge/MIP (depending on who you talk to it is all the freaking same) if you can, but don't pull down the rest of your line if you can't perform and don't complain about pains ... I feel pregnancy is a serious matter why mix in becoming an AKA woman or joining a BGLO (that includes FRAT- he should be there for his woman). Deal with one thing at a time! And no on is being hypocritical, if you have relations behind closed doors who cares (many people in church lead two lives), but when you produce a child and then GET ON-LINE you make it everyone's business, now people have to tiptoe around you. And no matter if we are talking pledging or MIP, LATE NIGHTS AND UNDUE STRESS ARE INCLUDED IN BOTH!!

And here I go arguing someone else's point but when Soror Discogoddess stated 'especially undergrad' I honestly think she meant students 18 to 21, but if not she will explain that later, but I must admit we don't take in many sorors over the age of 25 in undergrad chapters, not because of any law but because older women rather deal with more seasoned sorors in Graduate chapters. Also if you are pregnant or a new mother, still in college and over 24 then isn't there more important things to do with your time - NOT SAYING AKA is not important, I value my pearls, but that situation just does not fit!!

Lastly, character is weighed heavy in votes so again it goes back to being OUR choice, many call but FEW are chosen!!

Sisterly
LadyAKA

[This message has been edited by LadyAKA (edited August 04, 2000).]

Wow this is.....a serious topic http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I wasn't going to post but I couldn't resist.

I have to agree with both Soror AKATUDE & LadyAKA on this issue.

As Soror AKATUDE stated it is about "us" not about "me"...there is no individuality....you are as "one".

I totally agree with Soror LadyAKA...I LOVE MY PEARLS!!! but if I was a new/pregnant mother my #1 priority would be my child and to put your body through that much stress and sleepless nights is very dangerous.

If you are a full-time student, full-time employee and a full-time mother...do you have the time to be a full-time Soror?

Hello all. Having sex an being pregnant are two differnt things. I would not say that a person who gets pregnant has no morals but I would say that they may be irresponsible. There are so many forms of birth control out there that there is no reason for anyone to have an unplanned pregnancy. I have never participated in the Membership Intake Process, so I can not say whether the conditions are acceptable for a pregnant woman, but, really, time is a big factor. How much time could a new mother possibly have for duties of being a sorority member?

[This message has been edited by mizzkes (edited August 04, 2000).]

Just wanted to commend you all for the intelligent manner in which you carried out this debate/discussion. How many times have we seen a board BLOW UP because people disagreed or didn't like the way someone else phrased something? The positive vibe is why I (and others) enjoy viewing this board.

I really have nothing to add to the discussion. Several people have already stated my thoughts very eloquently.

Mizzkees,

Having sex andn pregnancy......That to me, is just like saying stealing and getting caught...

I do agree with that pregnant women should not go through MIP if there are reasons to believe that harm may come to the fetus or the mother. However, to flat out say a woman is less than, or have nothing to offer her community-- because she had a baby, well that is a form a prejudice.

How many of my sorors here are without children and not active, financially or otherwise? We have to elevate ladies, we live in a diverse society. Now I am, by no means, condoning pregnancy before marriage or sex for that matter.

For those of you who were sexually active prior to crossing-- ....the only difference between you and that interest who may be pregnant or an unwed mother, is GRACE!

My God we do need to humble ourselves.

Now I am not arguing just expressing my thoughts. We are by no means "shallow", am I right?

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TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN....MUCH IS EXPECTED.

I don't have any children AND I am ACTIVE financially (since 1991) and otherwise....

SFs must HUMBLE themselves, as well!!!

It still goes back to the SORORS on each particular campus...THEY are the ones who vote...

You can be blind, cripple, and/or crazy...but the Sorors have to make that choice.

What I expressed earlier IS a fact...I know of NUMEROUS older sorors, not my age, BUT the SKEERIOUS (SILVER AND GOLDEN) Sorors who do not play that!
I respect those Sorors and always will!

Yes, they do look down on this issue...times changing or NOT. Shout... If you step to them incorrectly, ...TRUST ME, it won't be anything lovely.
That was where my point was coming from....

Back in their day...unwed mothers was a NO NO...that's where "high ethical and moral standards" came to play....Remember that?

I just know I am glad my UNDERGRAD days are over with...too much DRAMA/EXCUSES and ISSUES these days...

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited August 04, 2000).]

I posted my views to a similar question in the Greek Life forum, so I wasn't going to respond, but here I go...

I completely agree with Soror Deja. Unless we were all virgins (before we were married for those of us that are), and plan on initiating only virgins, then we can not discriminate (let he who is without sin...). I'd rather initiate someone that was pregnant or a single mother who knows who the father is than a "discreet" freak ( freak meaning - a very promiscious person - for those that have been living under a rock) that creeps from dorm to dorm. Sorry for being so blunt.

If a female feels her body can withstand the MIP process, more power to her. There are many pregnant women that work 40 hrs per week in very stressful situations that deliver healthy babies.

I know there are those that disagree, and I respect that.



[This message has been edited by tickledpink (edited August 04, 2000).]

I'm more concerned about the situations she may be placed in while going throuugh the initiation process while pregnant. I know what I experienced and would not want that for any pregnant woman. However, if she chose to go through with it she should not be entitled to special treatment simply because she is pregnant. I would be very resentful if that happened to me while I was on line with someone who is pregnant. If she feels the added stress would not harm her unborn child, then the decision is hers.

[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited August 04, 2000).]

I just can't leave well enough alone...

A hypocrite is one (based on Mr. Webster) who "affects virtues or qualities that he (or she) does not have." Therefore, if someone said premarital sex is immoral and is not a virgin, that would be hypocritical. If someone said that mothers with young children who are not married should not be extended invitation to the sorority and they are not in that situation they are not being hypocritical. Also, if you have grown to a point where the things you used to do you do not do anymore, it is not hypocritical to point out those things were wrong when you did them or wrong now.

That's it for me!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

What is "MIP"? Is it something Intake Process?

membership intake process

Somewhere along the way, this thread has taken on an additional topic. As I stated earlier before, the thread is about whether or not we would recommend going through initation while pregnant. I replied later on that there is no rule prohibiting it. There have been women, as seen on this board, who have gone through MIP while pregnant. Others, like me, feel as though they should wait.

For some reason, the "morality" or "image" issue entered the picture along the way. Yes, I too, know of some older sorors (heck, I know lots of older non-greek women) who look down on unwed mothers, even some who are much younger. That is how it was back in the day. "Susie" would go off to care for her ill "Aunt Jane" for several months, etc.

But times have changed. Even if people are not accepting of it, they are displaying more tolerance than in those times. I have a cousin who became pregnant her sophomore year in college in the early 80's, but did not return to school. Just about everyone knows someone who is either a relative or a friend who might be an unwed single mother. After graduation, one of my own line sisters became pregnant and is not with her child's father or married. That does not mean I think any less of her or my cousin.

It is a fact that many people are having sex without the benefit of marriage. However, if I had become pregnant and was still able to attend school, I would not have gone through with it. Reflecting back on the entire experience I know that my body would not have been able to handle it while pregnant, and that would not have been fair to my line sisters, me, or my baby.

However, as I and others pointed out earlier, if a woman feels as though she is able to handle the stress and thinks her unborn child will not be harmed, then by all means she should pursue her goal.
My number one goal at that point would be to find every way possible to ensure that my baby entered this world as healthy as possible because that would be my first
priority. If I had waited that long, I could wait a bit longer. The sorority isn't going anywhere.

All I want to say is that this is simply a personal issue. It is up to the individual to choose, but I would encourage her to not just think about what she wants, but the others that she could possibly effect in the long run. Yes, mothers do juggle lots of different tasks, but with a newborn, school, and maybe a job she needs to realize that the sorority demands just as much time. Other than money, family and job responsibilities are two often quoted reasons for frat/sorority members who become inactive.

In closing, I would like to add that I admire the women who are able to do it because it is no small task.

I'm sorry for the long post.

Hello Everyone. Being a mother interested in AKA I decided to add my input on the topic. When I had my daughter I was blessed enough to have a lot of help (the biggest being her daddy- A wonderful black man!) Even with all the assistance I took a year off of college just to devote to raising her. I myself didn't try to begin pursuing AKA again until she was a bit older. But everyones situation is different so what worked for me might not work for someone else. If the women can handle the pressure of being a new mother and pursuing AKA- I applaud her strength. But I would highly advise her to do a careful evaluation of her duties and where her priorities lie.

AKA2D,

In response to my Silver and Golden sorors, I have the utmost respect, for my mother is one. However, we have to keep in mind that we are of great sisterhood and we must respect ourselves before we can expect anyone to respect us.

AKATude, I agree, this thread took on an additonal topic.

Ladies the reason I feel so strongly about this is......well, on the other hand, perhaps I should only discuss this with my sorors. Feel free to e-mail me.

Again I have to piggy back on what Soror AKAtude has stated, this original question was something like can it be done, answer being yes ... along the line we changed it to image so forth and another which is someone's personal opinion.
And again I will state if you can handle it go ahead, two BUT's
1)Still it is the CHOICE of the CHAPTER
&
2)Evaluation of priorities should be re-thought!

Sisterly
LadyAKA

First of all I would like to thank soror AKATUDE for her positive response to what I said about pledging while pregnant.

Although M.I.P is the process, you still pledge the sorority. Pledge does not mean haze and I think many people are fooled by that term.

Whenever you become a part of something that is bigger than you, you need to realize that what is best for the organization is best for you. If you want to pledge, you need to put yourself in the minds and the hearts of your potential line sisters or sorors.

Would you want to have your process altered due to the ideas and choices of another person on your line? Or would you want the opportunity to enjoy your process to the fullest like most. The pressure, time and effort of knowing what you need to know could be overwhelming to a pregnant woman.

I just think a woman or man should wait until they are stable and are handling things with that child, then she/he will be able to have sound mind and time to pledge that organization.

Much that is given is received and if you cannot give much you will receive just that.

Pinkice

[This message has been edited by pinkice9 (edited August 09, 2000).]

Hello All!! I have been away from the chat board because i have recently become addicted to BlackPlanet.com...lol. Check out my page I am ChAKAlate2.

WEll I had to respond to this topic. I was pregnant my senior year in highschool and so when I entered my freshman year of college, I was in my third trimester.

Of course my first year or so, I was busy adjusting myself to being pregnant, then a new mom and still being a succesful student.

So I started my pursuit of AKA in my junior year. I am pleased to say that my big sisters were wise enough to see that despite my early personal mistake of being a teen mom. I still had all the other attributes of an Alpha Kappa Alpha woman. I was committed to my community, ladylike,committed to academic excellence and hd high ethical and moral standards (when did pre-marital sex become the ultimate sin and judge of character, there are worse ones in my book. I think I expressed my moral character when I decided to go through with my pregnacy and not terminate it..choosing life over death)

I think to disqualify someone from consideration based on their status as a single parent or parent alone, or even teen parent is to unfairly evaluate them. That status does not define a person's character.

I took no time off. I graduated in four years exactly, something that many non-parents at my school could not accomplish. I took no time off after my pregnancy and as a matter of fact for the first three months of my son's life he attended class with me. In fact my GPA was higher than my big sisters. I graduated cum laude at the age of twenty-one and now at the age of twenty-two i am at a top law school..I turned Harvard down. This is from a young woman who gave birth at the age of seventeen.

I am not ashamed of the fact that I was a teen parent. I am glad that I can be an example for other young woman, that if you make a mistake early on in life, it does not mean that it defines your future..you still can be the best you can be.

My big sisters made arrangments for both me and my sands (who was also a mother) in regards to pledging activities. Ironically us two parents were the only two women on campus who actually came to all community service activities etc. etc. that is why we were chosen. I do know there are some sorors who feel uncomfortable putting moms online..I was fortunate enough to have big sisters who did not feel that way. In fact I think I had their increased respect. And in fact because they knew we were moms and how responsible we were, they expected more from us!!! i.e. better results and less EXCUSES.


In regards to being pregnant...it depends on what type of pledging you participate in. MIP, then no it really shouldn't be a problem , other activities yes it more than likely would be a problem. I agree with other sorors that ultimately it is the chapter's decision alone.

Sorors remember part of our mission is to study and help alleviate the problem concerning girls and women, teen pregnacy and single parenthood is one of those issues and so we should be mindful that looking down on teen parents and single moms does not help alleviate the problem.

That is my $19.08 cents.


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Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[This message has been edited by chAKAlate (edited August 09, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by chAKAlate (edited August 09, 2000).]

ChAKAlate, you could not have said it any better! You are an inspiration to ALL women...single, married, childless, pregnant, single mom...you name it! Turned Harvard down?!? You go ahead with your bad self!

Well said sisterfriend. I too was pregnant my senoior year of high school. Did not take any time off and will be graduating this may. I absolutley HATE it when people use having children as an excuse for not succeeding. In my opinion, my son gives me the inspiration to never give up.

You go girl and keep up the good work.
If and when time permits try to talk to these young ladies who are quiting high school because they have children or are giving up on life. We have to show them that it is now even more important for them to continue with their goals

I respect all of you and the decisions you have made, but sorors and friends are now making this topic into something it was never meant to be. I still go back to it is the chapters choice and if you feel you can be pregnant or be already with child then go ahead submit and have fun!! To each her own....with that said I am leaving this topic alone!!

"Sorors remember part of our mission is to study and help alleviate the problem concerning girls and women, teen pregnacy and single parenthood is one of those issues and so we should be mindful that looking down on teen parents and single moms does not help alleviate the problem."

I am inspired by your story, Soror ChAKAlate, but I don't think by glorifying teen pregnancy and single parenthood we are helping to alleviate it, either. And I think we glorify it when we accept single moms on the undergrad level, regardless of age, and have sorors (and other greek women) parade their kids around at step shows, service events, etc. What are we saying to young girls when we do this? That "hey it's okay to get pregnant, becuase I did it and still got in to a sorority"? Where is the encouragement to not get pregnant and not have to be challenged by the additional responsibility? Not everyone can/will do as you and blutheatrics have done, so I don't think it's wise to hold up these examples, however inspiration and impressive they are. I still want to know: what are we saying to kids when we ourselves don't follow what we tell them (delay sex and pregnancy to get an education, etc.)?

Ladies, this topic is sure growing, and just when I thought it died down, it has been reheated!!!!I have been a quiet reader for quite sometime.......

Discogoddess: Your comments are going to down right upset a bunch of single women, especially those that are mothers!
I, myself, am a single mother. By defeating the odds placed on single mothers, by people with similiar ways of thinking as yours has caused such ignorance (I am not calling you ignorant)which has perpetuated the rate of drop-outs by teen women on both the high school and collegiate level. Part of society and even their families tell them they will never amount to anything, and many are sidetracked and believe this,therefore they lose any amibtion or motivation to prove people wrong.
Like CHAKALATE (shout out to CALI!!) said, she and countless others who have become members of your illustrious organization HAVE defeated the odds, which by no means has put any damper on the bright light that is upon Alpha Kappa Alpha.
I am now 22, and doing better than most of my associates my age. My son, gave my life a new meaning and directiion that at the age of 19, I so desperately needed. No, I was not the product of abuse, nor did I come from a broken home like society would like for us to believe. I simply made a mistake, and have corrected this mistake by taking charge of my future and my son.
Your words were particularly painful, and I am sure they were not attended as such. But how can anyone "Glorify Teen Pregnancy"? Should we shun those that fallen prey to such? No, we should uplift them and show them the proper course of action to correct the past to show them a brighter future. The girls and women who has taken this route, hopefully by the time they intend to express an interest into your illustious organization will hopefully followed such a past that her merits, character and service willl shine so brightly that who gives a D*&% if she was a single mother~~~ Put yourself in this scenario: You are volunteering at at teen center for pregnant, or single moms and one of them asked if they were to turn their life onto the right track, "Is it possible to become a member of your sorority?" What would your answer be.....