How can an APO Chapter strive in a Social Greek World?
 

I'm a member of an APO Chapter at a University with 11 fraternities and 9 sororities and we have the hardest time getting recognition. The school won't recognize us as greek because we're co-ed, so they consider us more like a "club" than a greek fraternity. And the other sororities and fraternities look at us and wonder who we are, where we've come from, and whose letters we've stolen! I actually had 1 brother tell me she was walking down the hall and some sorors confronted her saying, "why are you wearing those letters? That's not a real fraternity?"

Although our chapter was on the brink of non-existence, we have new members and are in full swing. This fall we plan to do a ton of events and advertising to get our name out there but I just wanted some ideas from other chapters on how to cope. Have any of your chapters had similar problems?

In LFS,

Nvr Envy:rolleyes:

There was no official greek system on my campus, so I don't have any particular advice for you.

Congratulations on reviving your chapter, though!

Re: How can an APO Chapter strive in a Social Greek World?
 

On almost all campuses, the term "Greek" is used to refer to the social fraternities/sororities. APO is almost always lumped in with the other clubs and orgs on campus. Does your campus not have any professional or honor greek letter orgs? Do you have any business, law, science GLOs?

You may need to emphasis that we are a National Service Fraternity and that we are co-ed. Seems to you need to educate your 'fellow greeks' that social GLOs are NOT the only Greeks out there.

Not sure if that helps or not.

To answer your question, I'm actually an associate brother of Alpha Phi Omega but I am also in a social Sorority, Alpha Xi Delta. If APO was considered a social I wouldn't have been allowed to Pledge A Xi D. I pledged APO before I joined my Social sorority and we were told that we were a service fraternity so therefore we were allowded to be in a Social. I think that is why a lot of Social Sororities and Fraternities don't Consider APO a social b/c if we were, people in Socials wouldn't be able to become a part of APO. Being that I am in a social and I am an associate of APO I know what it's like to be on both sides. I do feel that APO is a club/fraternity b/c of that fact that they focus on Service and the other Social frats/soro. are more socially involved.

To the previous post: although you may feel as though APO is a club, it indeed is not. I dont feel as though it should be considered a club just because it is not a social frat. The word "greek" as it is used to refer to those who have pledged frats and sororities refers to that fact that it is indeed a frat or a sorority NOT whether or not it is social, service or the like.

At Zeta Phi, they tried to say that we were not a fraternity as well as not a real greek. The members of our organization would not stand for that. It is the pride that we have for Alpha Phi Omega that will not let anyone cheapen our letters value even if they have never heard of it. It is because we would not stand for that, that we were awarded the fraternity of the year award for 2003 even though we were competing against social frats.

My advice to you, is to be proud of the letters that you wear. Although we stand for service, I believe that is more important than social reasons for pledging. As much as we give back , you have the right to demand respect. If anyone asks why you are wearing those letters you explain to them that you are part of the largest frat in the world, and that you principles are leadership, frienship and service, and that if we were not a real greek frat, how then have we lasted so long from 1925 to 2003.

In our case, standing up for our letters worked, it also helped though, at zeta phi, that two key people in administration belonged to the frat, one being the president of the school. And although he belongs to a social frat as well, he doesnt believe that he pledged into a fake greek frat by pledging APO. Using that to our advantage, we also made honorary brothers other key persons in the administration so that we have respectable persons that are already visible pumping up APO for us because they feel as though they are a part of something real.

My advice, dont let ANYONE, devalue anything you take pride in.
Congrats

IN L, F, S

Sigma
 

That was so beautifully put.... I whole heartly agree with you...

As a former petitioner, the first thing that your fellow PG brothers and yourself must have is patience...yes you will encounter some people who never heard of APO a day in their life and they would love to learn more about the organization...then you do have some ignorant folks who will challenge your existence and then you have to deal with that situation accordingly...

Really, as long as you exude confidence in pride in YOUR letters that you earned, who gives a rat's patooie what anyone thinks...

and if they try to compare you to a club just say this( believe me it works) "All fraternites and sororities, whether they are social, honor, special interests, academic or service are school clubs/organizations...but all clubs/organizations are NOT fraternities or sororities!!!

AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE!!!

APO is not and never has been a social GLO. No one has ever viewed us as a social GLO.

The issue is that many members of social GLOs can't grasp the idea that there exists GLOs beyond the socials. To them, if you're not a social GLO, you're not a Greek. Many are ignorant of the existance of professional, honor, recognition, and service GLOs.

APO is a Service Fraternity. That is why we focus on service.

As a member of a social sorority as well, I've found that I've actually gotten more crap from my APO brothers about being in a Greek organization than the other way around. You know, it's funny...Maggie Katz, our National Vice President, is also a member of a social sorority. I met a bunch of members from the FIU petitioning group, and they were ALL in social GLOs.

I'm not trying to dismiss what you're saying, but I just think that sometimes Greeks and APO brothers forget that we don't have to compete. I know it happens, but take pride in your letters. Good luck, and congratulations!

You might want to remind those Brothers who do so that 13 of our 14 founders, including Frank Reed Horton, were ALL members of social fraternities!

Hey, which sorority is Maggie Katz in? That's neat to learn.

Maggie is a member of Alpha Gamma Delta...I believe she went to Michigan State.

Katz...
 

She went to University of Michigan!!!

a brother from the philippines
 

i 'm very pleased to be with the same group which i had been a member for almost seven years now, i think what matters most
greetings1

with the groups appeal is that it is primarily a service oriented group, a lot of fraternities emerging here from the philippines and still the alpha phi omega, tops the rest. because of the cardinal principles it caters, and horton's vision (our beloved founder ) that each of us who embraces the scouts' essence, irregardless of nationality or race are being welcomed. and that is how we made it clear to the eyes of the studentry that alpha phi omega is geared towards the service of mankind.

currently we are composed of 368 chapters in the phils and most of the premier universities and colleges has it own greek chapter. and several petitioning chapters. we consider the group here as non political fraternity and purely service oriented.

brandyme
julius
batch 96b1-1800 sigma chapter
prime chancellor
adamson university
manila, philippines

APO-Phil situation...
 

Unfortunately, this is one area where APO-USA and APO-Phil have very different situations. There is nowhere that Alpha Phi Omega is on campus in the Philippines where it is not foremost in the minds of the administration. On many campuses in the USA, there may be 50 social fraternities &sororities that the school knows more about than Alpha Phi Omega...

Randy

survival of the fittest
 

we don't worry ourselves much with "surviving" with the social GLO's. there are more than 20 on our campus, but we stand out for what we do - service. as TAU BETA we remain to have our own distinct flavor - NO ONE can do it like we do it. we treat each other as family and have fun doing what we do best - leadership, friendship and service. we show pride in alpha phi omega wherever we go, whether it be in class, in the caf, at a project or on a road trip. keeping your name out there will attract those that will be beneficial to your chapter, whether they be members of social GLO's or not. we get our name in local publications as often as possible, wear letters everywhere, promote our activities, work with other campus organizations and put things such as the sandwich boards that social GLO's also use up around campus. you can't miss us!

bump!
 

Sorry, I needed to bump this because I have the same problem at my school.

I'm in an APO interest group at my school, and also colonizing a multicultural sorority here at the same time. My friend in a local at a different school wants to tell me that APO's just a club of girls who call themselves "brothers," at her school but not a fraternity. Another girl in my sorority interest group here doesn't believe it's a fraternity because I wouldn't be allowed to pledge the sorority if I was in a fraternity as well.

I hate that BS. I've read some posts by other GCers who say that orgs that aren't NPC/NIC are "fake." Who are they to dismiss the history and traditions of other GLOS if they don't know what the hell they are talking about? To me, if it's a GLO, you pledge, you have brothers--it's obvious! Social Greeks believe that their orgs are the only ones that can be "real." F*** that!

*Danielle*

Agreed!

Is there any info we can give that would help? Only suggestion for the woman in the multi-cultural is to ask her how many fraternities would allow you to join in the first place. :) I'm not saying that co-edness and non-mutual exclusivity are synomyms, but they might be to her...

As for your friend at the other school. See if you can get one of the brothers over there to talk to her one-on-one. that may help with some of it....

Randy

Re: bump!
 

What you have here is a combination of arrogance and ignorance. There have been threads in the general forum area on this topic.

I find the attitude by many social greeks that 'social GLO' are the only 'true' GLO as the height of arrogance. Social GLO are but one aspect of GLOs. And I feel from a historic stand point, the social GLOs grew out of the original GLOs. The original GLOs were mainly supper discussion groups. Those in honorary, professional, and other GLOs are just as much greek as the socials.

I find the attitude by many social greeks that being in a social GLO prevents them from joining ANY other GLO as fairly ignorant. The restriction is only on being in ONE social GLO or ONE type of professional (ie one business GLO, etc). Our Founders were mainly members of social GLOs and didn't want to establish a new GLO that would affect their membership.

Tied with this is the attitude by some social greeks that you somehow can't be involved in more then one organization to be silly. You join socials for what they give you. You join professionals for what they give you. You join APO for similiar reasons. No GLO can provide it all. By being involved with multiple organizations, you are a more well-rounded individual. My father was a member of a social, and 2 professionals (business & law). As an adult he's a member of Elks, Rotary, a sailing/yacht club, a golf club, and probably a few others I'm not aware of. To me that's normal. To join only a social and refuse to join any other organization while in college seems silly and foolish.

Alpha Phi Omega is a FRATERNITY in every sense of the word. When we attach labeles of "service", "social", "professional", we begin to deviate from the true ideal of fraternalism. APO encompasses ALL the aspects of what a so-called social or professional GLO is supposed to embody. Through our cardinal principles of Leadership, Friendship, and Service. I truly feel, and can say without reservation, that Alpha Phi Omega is at the pinnacle of the fraternal system.

I as well am a social Greek as well as a (newly intiated) brother. Here my sisters sometimes tease me for being in a "wannabe Greek" organization.... but then I point out that it was my choice and if our organization wasn't going to do service I would find one that would. So... the conversation stopped there.

I think that APO isn't even lumped together with other clubs, it is seen as its seperate entity. Letters aren't common but people are starting to wear them more and more (mostly because we are rebuilding our chapter). Other social Greeks seem APO as an organization with no house... and alot less risk rules. I don't think it is as big of a problem here because the chapter is being rebuilt, and there are distinct seperations

I became a brother because I believe in what Alpha Phi Omega stands for. I have no desire to be a member of a social fraternity. I do not feel the need. My brothers is APO are good enough for me. I did not pledge because I needed acceptance. Many people pledge social because they feel the need to belong, or they feel it will make them popular. APO is not based on the premise, be proud of our Blue and Gold. We are a unique organization that has no peers. (no offense to Gamma Sigma Sigma).

I ain't offended. :p You did what was best for you and obviously, you knew this fraternity was the best. :D Can't hate on that!

That's not a very nice, or very truthful, comment to make. It's also an insult to your brothers who are also members of social orgs. There are many people out there who are members of both.

not an attack
 

I did not say all or most persons that pledge social organiztions. And I did not attack them. And it is truthful that many people pledge them to feel a sense of belonging, or to become popular. If you are in denial that people pledge for those reasons I am sorry. But some people do.....I am not attacking anyone for their social organizations. I considered pledging one, but decided to help re-charter the APO chapter at my school. Not because I felt a need to belong, but because of what the chapter of that fraternity stood for.........I am sure that is the reason most people pledge....

Re: not an attack
 

Making the statement that you did is like saying that people join APO because they couldn't get into a social org or cut it once they got in. And there's many people that may join APO just to have letters and to belong somewhere. It may be true in a few or some circumstances, but it's not true across the board, so it's not good to make such a broad statement. You said "many people" and are making a judgment on all social orgs.

Sorry, it just came across as very insulting and disrespectful towards social orgs and their members.

I will also say I am slightly offended. Social Greeks join for more reasons than "belonging"... you might not have meant for it to be all or most... but if you were listing reason people join social greek... then maybe you should think of other reasons. Also know that the social greeks on our campus do alot of community service as well. I think 3500 hours in 10 social greek organiazations in a year (no more than 40 members in each... and most are arounf 20-28 like mine :) )

I dunno I just think that you made an assumption that might be ok on your campus but on other campuses things work different

I said those are reasons, not the reasons. I considered pledging social because I found the ideals of the organization similar to those that I live by so I am not assuming those are the only reasons to pledge. Those of you that are offended need to open your minds. I am not knocking you, or your organizations. You also have to realize that each campus has different chapters. And because I did not think the social organizations on my campus did enough for the community does not mean that I feel that way about every chapter. I can not make that statement as I have not been to every chapter. You ladies need to loosen up. I am not here to attack anyone, or their organization. You have not heard my say anything other than some organizations on my campus did not do what I felt was enough in the community, and that is why I busted my tail to get a chapter of APO on MY campus....

Whatever happened to "I'm sorry, that's not what I meant."

People are so pressed to be "heard" that they don't listen to what's actually being said.

NOBODY likes to be told to "loosen up" -- I don't even know why people say that anymore. It never works!

If I'm coming off snarky, I'm sorry. I just get really sick of people in general wanting to have the last word instead of taking the more brotherly route of mutual understanding.

No, your not coming off snarky. I have heard much worse. Not really worried about having the last word either. I also felt no reason to apologize. I believe I made it clear that my goal was to state a couple of facts. Not to attack, and about not wanting to be told to loosen up, that is your business. I can not help if "no one" wants to hear that. I can take constructive criticism when offered. Maybe we all need to work on that. And remember that opinions are like derrier's, everyone has one. But, we do not have to agree with each others...

And by the way, I meant no offense to you. I have read many of your posts. I think you are highly intelligent, and make some very insightful points.....

Flattery will get you everywhere!!! :) ;)

i think trying to survive in a "social greek world" depends on your environment. no campus is the same. at our small university, we have only pan-hell, but if youre at a school with 19 frats, you might have a tougher time creating a niche for yourselves.

what i try to focus on is parity. whatever you can see pan-hell do is what you can see us do, so in the end, the student body doesnt really see that much difference in our orgs other than the quality of the event. we are a service FRATERNITY, but that doesnt mean you are relegated to only that. we have many social activities on our chapter's calendar. let your campus see that you are "cool" and that you can have fun too.