Do you....
 

I was wondering about that the other day as well. It seems like with ALLLLLL those girls going through recruitment, at least one would be openly gay.

it was never a problem in my chapter.

Bid
 

Last semester we gave a bid to a guy that was openly gay. It didn't change our opinions of him, he was a great guy no matter his sexuality

I don't know...If a PNM was gay, then she might not feel comfortable revealing it for fear of being cut. Likewise, even if a PNM is openly gay, sororities may cut her just so other PNMs won't get weirded out. Also, what gay girl in her right mind would willfully surround herself with attractive, intelligent, driven women she can't even hit on because of potential rifts in the sisterhood? It would be sheer torture!

Finally, gay people have great, tight knit clubs and support groups. They don't really need to join a sorority.

Gay men, on the other hand, have gay fraternities where they're forbidden to date a fellow brother.

I think there are plenty of gay women in sororities who don't hit on their sister. I'm a member of AITP, which in my opinion has tons of attractive, intelligent, driven men and I manage to do just fine without hitting on them - same with College Democrats. I know a lot of gay men in fraternities and they don't hit on their brothers unless the brother is also openly gay. I would welcome a gay sister with open arms - she is my sister, and that is all that matters to me.

That being said, I can see where it would sadly hurt people in some recruitments - you can have all the non-discrimanation clauses you want, but I bet every org has a chapter that has rejected somebody for one of those reasons anyway. Is it sad? Yes, but it still happens.

Is it written somewhere that gay people should only hang out with other gay people? And as for the attractiveness thing: are you attracted to every man you see? Just because a woman is a lesbian, it doesn't mean she wants to hump your leg just 'cause you have two X chromosomes.

"Also, what gay girl in her right mind would willfully surround herself with attractive, intelligent, driven women she can't even hit on because of potential rifts in the sisterhood? It would be sheer torture!

Finally, gay people have great, tight knit clubs and support groups. They don't really need to join a sorority."





...I can't believe that is actually written...

My apologies if I offended anyone, but from what I've seen, gay people do tend to clump together. That, and most of them would never bother with a sorority.

And that bit about the self-torture was meant lightly. God, people, chill out. I just meant that why would someone join a group where the members are all going to be pretty much attractive not necessarily in the physical sense, but in personality and drive. It was a JOKE, albeit a poorly worded one. No, I don't hump every guy I see -mostly because they're all either homosexual or taken or both. *sigh*

Again, my apologies for offending y'all.

:eek:

Oh okay. Apology accepted.

Much GC love to yah!!

No problem here.

However - in another sorority at my school (which shall remain nameless) there was a young woman who was very well liked in her sorority, she was an officer, very involved, etc. She felt she could share anything with her sisters - so one day, at a fireside, she came out to them. BAM - after that, none of her sisters would hang out with her any more, she was never again elected to office, and she was generally made to feel unwelcome. :(

I would not see a problem with a lesbian/bisexual joining my chapter. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round!

There have been problems in the past with lesbian/bi sorority members on my campus.

A national officer of ABC told a girl, "I'm sorry to say, but nothing ruins your reputation and your numbers like pledging a lesbian!"

Another house did the same thing that aephi alum described...basically just turned their back on their sister after she came out to them. The girl ended up spended all of her time at my house, as her gf was a sister.

We have an alum who openly a lesbian, but as of right now, we don't have any girls who are openly gay. I don't know if any of them are...

I dunno, I'm just kind of the mentality where if they are, and are out, great. If they are, and aren't out, I'm not really going to speculate on it. It's not really my business, and I'd rather concentrate on other aspects of my relationship with my sisters.

I'm just kind of laid back about the whole thing. And after all, a lesbian sister definitely isn't going to check out my boyfriend! ;)

Maybe that's why they want to join a sorority. Just because they are always hanging out with other gay people, doesn't mean that's all they like. That can get kinda boring. Perhaps they want to meet people who they get along with and don't share that aspect of their lives. I have a lot of gay friends and sometimes they get sick of being thought of as only that, gay. There is more to a person than their sexuality, and joining a sorority would be perfect for expressing that. They could socialize and have a good time without spending it listening to others cry about the injustices of being who they are (I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm actually using the sentiments of some of my friends who spend a lot of time at the gay/lesbian center in town). I'm down for hanging with whoever makes you happy, and if that means joining a sorority, where you might be the token homosexual, than go for it.

I think it is fine for gay women to pledge. We have two women who are out right now and it hasn't hurt our numbers or anything. Besides, women who are turned off of a house because one woman is gay are closed minded and will, in my opinion, cause other issues for the house. The sister who wasn't happy w/two open sisters created problems w/ other sisters on more that one occasion. (Closed minded comments mostly) As a chapter we have an unoffical general sentiment not to promote interhouse dating, but would never stop two sisters from doing so.

A few years ago on my campus we had several openly gay women rush. They were all mysteriously cut from one chapter after first round. This same chapter had another woman mysteriously resign after coming out later that year. Hmm...

I've had (that I know of) three openly gay chapter sisters and two openly bi ones. There hasn't been an issue, and it wouldn't cause me to look differently at a PNM.

The issue of openly gay sisters has come up in discussion among my friends who are greek but not on my campus...on my campus, it has never been a big deal whether or not a PNM or sister was gay or bi or even straight! as far as i'm concerned, i approach the discussion of anyone's sexual orientation with acceptance and an open mind...i know that on other campuses that might not be as liberal as my own, i would find it even more interesting to talk to a PNM about her experience because of the struggles that she might face as an openly gay college woman...those struggles can add aspects of character that can be very valuable to the sisterhood on a conservative campus, as you know that that PNM is willing to stand up for what she believes in :cool:

with regards to mysterious cuts, every situation is different. perhaps the PNM or sister during the party had opposing views on issues in addition to sexual orientation, maybe the PNM became defensive or belligerent about her stance or maybe the PNM just wasn't nice! we can never know what goes on behind chapter doors that aren't our own, so i think it's best to keep an open mind, not only about the views of PNMs but the decisions of sisters

I am sure every chapter has had at least one gay person whether they knew it or not. However, when that person is a PNM, it is totally different. The chapter has the right to vote as they see fit. If they prefer not to issue a bid to a gay person, they should be allowed to "cut" her/him. Remember, this entire Greek thing is based on the right to choose members. On some campuses, it would be the kiss of death for the chapter. On others, no one would think a thing of it. It is the chapter's right to choose as they see fit and based on whatever criteria they choose. Since nothing that is said in a discussion session is to leave the room, how would anyone know for sure?

I don't think it's any of our business what their sexual preference is, and if they choose to disclose it, fine, but it isn't going to change my mind one way or another on a sister. That's PERSONAL CHOICE!

I know at Penn they have some openly gay men in fraternities who are PERFECTLY HAPPY with their situations. The guys all love them, and it's cool. I don't know if there was ever an openly gay woman in my chapter, but I'm sure there was someone hiding in the closet. Out of all those girls over the last 10 years, I can't imagine not having one!

AZpinkkittie, you have a good point, and one that I never really considered. Like many people, I figure it's not really my business what orientation people have, and if my friends are gay, I just accept it because they're more than that. I hadn't really thought they'd ever get tired of hanging with their groups- I figured if they wanted a break from the woe-is-me syndrome, they could hang out with other friends they have.

That said, joining a sorority is a great experience, but I can imagine it's difficult at most colleges if you're openly gay as a PNM. NYU is as accepting as you can get, but I know some groups would look at any openly gay PNM askance and wonder why she was there. It's not that they'd be descriminatory, it would just be seen as odd. *shrugs* All I know is, if my former traveling advisor had gotten wind of a gay PNM, the shit would hit the fan...and she was a representative of HQ. (Happily, though, she is no longer with AST, thank god.) Rather discouraging, now that I think about it.

What groups at NYU would do this???

We had a gay sister come out, and we were basically fine with it, but other chapters on campus gave us s**t for it.

I went home for lunch and was telling my husband about this thread. He reminded me that the chapter he advises pledged a gay last spring. Apparently the boy was openly gay but that was not common knowledge. If any of the brothers knew it, they didn't speak up during discussion sessions. When it became known within the chapter, there was such an uproar and rift among the brothers that the boy was asked to leave the chapter. He was not blackballed but he would have been had he not voluntarily quit. The brothers felt extremely uncomfortable having him around and since he openly dated, they were terrified that he would show up at the formal with a "date". If they had known during recruitment, he would never have gotten a bid.

Um, actually, I'm an NYU student and I don't agree with the statement that groups at NYU would have a problem, I know at least that my sorority wouldn't care. I also know that there were rumors that another sorority had a pretty large amount of gay women, some of whom dated eachother, but as far as I know nobody cared. NYU just has too many people to really care or know that much about greek life anyways, so worries about reputation wouldn't really matter. I think maybe some of the fraternities might have caused problems about it, some of them have members that were a bit on the machismo side. At any rate, it's a ridiculous attitude to have towards potential members anyway on a campus where the first question you ask about a cute guy (or girl) you're interested in is whether he's straight(and the answer is often no)! :p


***Edited to add: Our advisor was also a huge idiot, so I'm not surprised that she would have thrown a fit about something like that***

When I was in school, I we never had anyone come out as gay or bi, so I can't speak from personal experience. I can see where some people would be kind of uncomfortable with it and I can see where some people would be fine with it. I do know that a few years before I pledged, there was a sorority on campus that had a couple of openly gay sisters and it wasn't great for their rep. I don't mean I agree with it or anything, but it was well known and people still talked about it when I was there.

I know it's back in the thread some, but what a quote!!!! :D :D

one of the sororities on my campus has several gay members, it has never affected anything. They remain one of the STRONGEST chapters on campus and no one is ever judged. It's not like one of the questions you ask during rush is: "so are you gay?" and a pnm is not very likely to just casually say: "well, I'm gay" without it coming up naturally or unless she had some serious concerns. So if a gay woman went through rush I don't think anyone would know or care on my campus. Two of the lesbian sisters did date each other for three years though, it got kind of difficult when they broke up and were both still actives! I don't think any real problems were caused though. if I were a lesbian greek I would just make a point never to date a sister, it's like dating in the work place, just not a good idea. My fave fraternity also has 3 or 4 openly gay brothers, no one cares and I LOVE those boys! alot of times they make better girl friends than my girl friends!!!! ;)

hummm ... well i guess i was out when i was a PNM ... not that it ever came up as a topic of conversation ... so i dunno who knew or not ... my sisters dont seem to mind ... they LOVE my girlfriend (who happens to be a sorority girl and on gc somewhere) ... and if they have a problem ... no one has mentioned it to me yet ... oh ... and i dont hit on my sisters ;)

But i think it does hurt you chances in some sororities/fraternities ... but then again ... if they had given you a bid ... would you want to be in a group that would have droped you if they had known you date people of the same sex?

I read this post and just had to throw in my two cents. I belong to a social fellowship, almost like sorority but not quite, anyway, I am bi-sexual and was not out while and interest. My sisters all know now and have no problem with it. We have interests for our Fall line ie, pledge class, and both are lesbians and very open about it. I dont feel that your sexuality should be apart of the criteria and should be a reason for people being cut. At my school we have gay men in fraternities and lesbian women in sororities, I guess my school is just really open about the GLBT community here.

Okay well I am gonna speak up for those of us who WOULD be uncomfortable with a gay woman in our sorority. I refuse to believe that this makes me a bad person. It's not that I don't think that gay people are perfectly wonderful human beings it's just that I don't really agree with their lifestyle. Like I said before, it makes me uncomfortable. I mean I have had gay friends (okay well one, and really only an aquaintance) but I'd be open to the oppertunity as having them as a friend but not as a sister. My sisters range in enicity from black to white to indian, in religion from aethist to catholic to jewish, and every body type imaginable so I don't want to hear about how I am closed minded. And I can say with almost 100% certainty that on my campus having a lesbian member would kill your reputation. But that's just how it is on my campus.

My $.02
 

I am going to speak up and agree with you here. I don't think my chapter would necessarily reject a girl solely b/c she was gay but then again we've never been in that situation. However last semester there were some rumors floating around the house that such and such girl did something with this girl and they both claimed to be openly bisexual. Now one of those girls has since left our house and I know that the majority of people that know about this other girl and her sexuality are a quite uncomfortable with it. And this is just bisexuality we're talking about here. I too think that on *my particular campus* that if you had one very active and openly gay member you would quickly become known as the "lesbian sorority" but that is just the way my campus is. And other people who go to my school may not agree with me. I have only met one guy in a fraternity down here who was openly gay and absolutely no openly gay sorority girls. I really don't honestly know how my sisters would handle it but I think it would be rough b/c I know many girls wouldn't want to get that stigma attached to our name. It's very confusing and while some people have certain opinions a lot of times we have to act in the manner that seems to be best for the well being of our sorority as a whole. But like I said, my campus is different from all of yours, we have a competitive greek system and things like this can make or break you and I'd hate to lose my chapter b/c of something like this.

And AXWoah...thanks for speaking up. :)

We actually had a gay member of our school newspaper to through recruitment a few years ago. She ended up getting cut from every sorority. The problem was that she was doing a story on sorority women and whether or not they would pledge a gay woman. She was cut from my chapter due to her reasons for going through recruitment, not because she was gay. The girls decided that she was going through recruitment for the wrong reasons, and as such, chose not to use one of our bid spaces on her. She was going through for a story, not to find a sisterhood. I think having a gay member would create some issues for any chapter.

It was brought to our attention during rush this past year that a PNM might be homosexual. While my sorority doesn't discriminate against anyone because of race, sexual preference, etc...I think many of the members would feel uncomfortable with a member who would potentially be attracted to them. No one ever found out if this girl was in fact a homosexual..but she pledged another house. But I think it is definitely difficult to not feel differently is you find out that a PNM is homosexual, although it is illegal to discriminate.

Everyone will have a different opinion of this and that is to be respected, but I feel that if you look at someone differently because of who they sleep with, thats ridiculous, my campus is very open so for me its different. And just because you are accpeting of a black, member, catholic member doesnt mean you are not closed minded, because when it comes to homosexuality you are, no offence. :) And its sad when in 2003 we cant accept our sisters because they might be gay and we disapprove of their lifestyle, I mean I have straight sisters that I totally disagree with their lifestyles, but they are still MY SISTERS, through thick and thin. Those are just my two cents, and if I offended anyone those were not my intentions, this topic is just a bit personal to me.

A girl should always be able to feel her most comfortable around her sisters. And I think that even though a lesbian sorority member may not be attracted to her sisters there is always that potential there. I mean put me in a group with 150 men I am bound to find one of them attractive. Knowing that that potential is there is what makes some of us feel uncomfortable. So I am not closed minded, thank you.

Well put! I don't think of myself as closed minded at all. I am pretty sure I know what campus AXWoah is from and it's similar to mine in some respects. Campus climate has a lot to do with it, trust me. I don't want a girl in my house who's going to be uncomfortable and I am just being honest when I'm saying that she might feel a little bit uncomfortable in my house and probably several others on my campus. Yes this is 2003 and I know everyone thinks that we should all be "above" discriminating those who are attracted to the same sex. And I'm glad that you guys are so optomistic in thinking that everyone should and does think like this but you know what, MANY parts of the country are much worse than even my school when it comes to this. I'm from the Midwest and I go to school here, I don't generally tend to think our thinking is as forward as a place like LA or NYC or something. We don't discriminate, but everyone in my sorority is allowed to their own opinion. Some people in my house have never even met a homosexual person and they might not feel that they know how to act. All I'm saying is that to each their own, we don't discriminate, but I am pretty sure most of my chapter wouldn't be comfortable with the idea. Whoever started this thread hopefully wanted honest opinions and though AXWoah and I went against the majority doesn't mean our thinking is wrong. I'm sorry if this sounds bitchy it's not meant too, I am so sleepy right now. Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anybody, just trying to help people get a better understanding of what I think. :)

BTW, I cleaned out my PM box AXWoah ;)

actually, that is exactly what makes you closed minded. i am sure that you are surrounded by more people who are gay or bi than you think. i am sure they wouldn't "come out" to you bc they already know your opinion.

let's say you are in a work place...there is someone that you are really attracted to, but your job has a no- dating policy....what do you do? you get over it!!!

i know many gay/lesbian/bi people whom i consider to be very good friends. they would not join a sorority to "meet" people to date. they are looking for the same bonds of friendship and family that you are. what if your biological sibling was gay/lesbian/bi? would you turn your back on them? would you worry that they would want to date your friends? no, you would love them for WHO THEY ARE. give people a chance! you might even like what you find underneath their "gayness."

oh, someone mentioned gay fraternities...there are also sororities founded by lesbian women for lesbian women...i wish i could remember their names.