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NPHC BGLO's how do you feel about non NPHC BGLO's
I have noticed other sororities and fraternities out there that call themselves the new greek alliance..how do the members of the NPHC BGLO's feel about this other orgs out there such as A PHI Q etc. etc. Who also have hand signs, calls and participate in step shows as well ???
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I just need some clarification about your post. Are you saying that Alpha Phi Omega, a service organization, calls themselves A Phi Q's, participate in step shows and have hand signs? If so, is this a relatively new thing?
In college I knew several individuals who pledged APO because it was not a social organization. If you can be in a service organization and a social organization, why would a service organization need to function as a social organization? Correct me if I am misunderstanding your post! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte! |
Peace & Love,
To Serenity: when I pledged Zeta, there were APOs on my campus, an HBCU, and they stepped and had hand signs. This was in 1991. They were also all men and their sister org. was Gamma Sigma Sigma. The were allowed to step at shows but were not eligible to win because they weren't NPHC, much like the band frat and sorority. To respond to the question on the floor. I have no ill will toward non-NPHC BLGOs. If it is your desire to serve the community, then so be it. As long as you join for the right reasons and stay committed, I don't have a problem with you. SapphireSensation 13-ThB-91 DMZDiva |
Thanks SapphireSensation! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
Wow! I thought this may have been a new thing. (I graduated in 1994). On my campus, APO was co-ed and strictly service only. It wasn't considered a BGLO; the members were predominately white. We (SLU) did many community service projects with them. I wonder if their function changes by region or maybe even by chapter. Is that possible with service organizations? ------------------ Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte! [This message has been edited by Serenity (edited July 02, 2000).] |
when i was in school (hbcu) we a apo's and they stepped, had calls and had line names. when ever we had step shows there was a greek part and a non greek part.
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To all: see my post on the "PFA vs. NPHC..." thread on this topic.
At some HBCU's A-Phi-O has been calling themselves "A-Phi-Q" for a while, at least 15 years anyway!! APO & GSS ARE NOT BGLO's. Period. Not on a national basis, at least. |
Since this discussion has begun to center around Alpha Phi Omega/A Phi Q, I found it only fitting for me to put in my $19.25.
I pledged Alpha Phi Omega in 1992 and presently serve as an alumni brother. While I did not pledge at an HBCU, my pledging was very similar (the chapter was an all-black-male chapter). Yes, the "A-Phi-Qs" step, has hand signs and calls, etc. We also recognize Gamma Sigma Sigma as our sister sorority (the "mainstream" brothers by & large do not). I say all that to say this: I wholeheartedly commend the members of Pan Hell GLOs who respect and treat brothers from non-Pan-Hell GLOs, be it black (Gamma Phi Eta, Phi Delta Psi, Xi Gamma Phi, Delta Psi Epsilon), or mainstream (Alpha Phi Omega, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Kappa Kappa Psi, Tau Beta Sigma, Phi Mu Alpha). While I do not personally have any beef with members of any of the Pan Hell GLOs (I am treated like family locally), I have came to the conclusion that based on prior experience (reading numerous guestbooks, chat room debates, personal discussions, etc), the NPHC as a whole tends to have a very ****y, aloof, arrogant, and sometimes beaugarde-ish (sp?) attitude when it comes to dealing with non-NPHC GLOs (An exception to this case would be Iota Phi Theta; IMHO Iota having dealt with similar experiences prior to being an NPHC member may have humbled them significantly. And this disrespect sickens me to the Nth degree. No one GLO is superior to another. I have been to social functions hosted by and primarily for non NPHC members where an NPHC org would show up and just start beaugardeing the brothers/sisters. Fights may not start, but tension was definately in the air. Currently there is another Black Greek Council called the National Greek Alliance (NGA), but I don't think it will be as big as the NPHC on a grand scale. The consensus of most of the member orgs pretty much share my aforementioned concern. The common denominator on all these orgs founding was that they didn't agree with what the NPHC orgs on campus were doing at the time Don't get me wrong. I support all NPHC organizations and their purposes. I plan on joining an alumni chapter of a NPHC org someday, so I am not anti-NPHC. I am anti-arrogant-attitude-that-comes-from-NPHC. Thank you to all those who have showed me and my frat & other fraternities and sororities like us love. It was not in vain. I'm outta here Da Rain Man "To business, to business, to business...." -A very tipsy Alex Trebek on the last episode of High Rollers (6/20/80) |
Rainman,
I am sorry to hear about your experiences in a negative manner. I can understand what you are saying because we as NPHC organizations sometimes beaugarde each other. Most times its just in fun, but it sometimes ends up in violence. I know alot people who feel like "The Divine Nine" are as diverse as it should get. That might be why they appear to be arrongant or pompous. I will say that I commend anyone for starting something new. I say the more the merrier. I will hope that there is a limit at some point though. |
OK, I am confused because at my school Alpha Phi Omega is a business fraternity. I am a member of Alpha PI Omega Sorority, Inc.--which is the 1st Native American Sorority in the nation. Although we aren't an african-american organziation, we have our own call and hand sign, but we don't step. As with all other greek organizations I'm sure, our call and our signs have sacred meanings that promote the sisterhood. We also have an organization on our campus that has a call, line names, line numbers, and probates, but they aren't an NPHC organization. Just wanted to inform a little!
Spr 00 Alpha chapter--Alpha Pi Omega Sorority, Inc. |
Oops! I meant to say in my earlier reply that there is an organization on our campus that probates, has line names, etc; just to clarify!
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Tell me straight out if I'm not supposed to know, but what is a Probate? The only thing that comes to mind for me is something having to do with Estate Law. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif
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ZetaAce |
ZetaAce: Thanks for the defintion, i was also wondering what probate was.
sugahbee: Does your sorority have a website. I'd be interested in learning more about it. What university is it founded at. |
I don't personally have a problem with other BGLO's out there. I didn't know there were any others besides the Eight Elite now the Divine Nine until later on. BGLO's do some interesting and fun things so it does not susprise me when others start their own groups and imitate certain traditionally NPHC characterisitics. It would concern me if they were using the same or very similiar calls, colors etc as one of our own. But i think most are respectful enough not to go there. And it does concern me when someone's founding is based on downing or complaining about another organization's susposed flaws (instead of just saying you wanted to start your own group, why join a group when you can be your own founders) One chapter at your school may have turned you off by their actions/attitudes but it does not represent the entire organization (but that always seems to be the excuse used). And i have yet to see another frat/sorority founded after the first eight do anything innovative or better then those that went before them and paved the way. They all do community service (should), use calls, signs, colors, nothing new under the sun. The Divine Nine has a long and prestigious history that current members continue to add to. Therefore i doubt very seriously if any of our members are/should be that concerned about the newer groups sprouting up as long as they are not disrespecting our history and hard work as we should respect theirs. We've got plenty to do to keep us busy if we are indeed about the business.
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Artimis,
Thanx for your interest, I'd be happy to share our website address to you. Its www.unc.edu/student/orgs/apiomega. If you have any trouble just go to the UNC website and look up Greek Affairs and you'll be able to find us. At this webpage we have link to our national website and some other chapter websites as well. Feel free to look! Oh, we were founded at UNC-Chapel Hill. Sugahbee |
PositivelyAKA: I like what you said. Although I'm not in a BGLO, I do have experience with other groups "stealing" my sorority's colors/symbols/ideas/etc. They did not know the meanings behind anything, but still used some of the symbols (i.e. we have the same flower but I'm sure it doesn't mean the same thing). It really irritates me that they took advantage of the founders of my sorority to form their own organization. Obviously I have no respect for their organization.
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I wasn't going to say anything on this, but you all have driven me to it. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
PositivelyAKA, I agree with you about basing your founding on the percieved downfalls of other groups. That kind of thing promotes division. Why should I embrace you in love and Greek unity if you start out by saying "I didn't want to have anything to do with you because ya'll were messing up".? (now I KNOW this isn't going to be popular, but..) I don't see the need for more than the 9 Orgainizations in the Pan currently. In my one chapter of Delta, their is enough diversity for (just about) any young woman to find someone to bond and feel a kinship with. Now I know that if you can find that kind of diversity in one chapter of one org., you can find a chapter somewhere in one of the 4 sororities, 5 fraternities to feel at home. (I'm not including professional orgs.) That being said, the other orgainzations are out there and I wish them God speed in their service. In terms of stepping, calls, hand signs, colors ect., those are the trappings of greekdom and have very little to do with the real purpose of the organizations. For those of you who pledged non NPHC organizations because of the percieved arogence and hostility, I can tell you that nine times out of ten, when greeks do display these traits they are directly linked to those trappings. (When was the last time you heard of a fight between two BGLOs that was based on a philosophical difference?) If you get caught up in those things, you'll become what you started the orgainizations to get away from. ------------------ If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown |
Disgogoddess, I believe we are in the same age range, and what you said is the way it was back in the day. As a child of the 70s & 80s who's mother was previously a graduate advisor to an undergrad chapter of a BGL sorority at an HBCU (how's that for a lot of information!) I attended quite a few 'probate' shows. The tradition at this school was that the probate shows of all of the organizations were done at the same time during the so-called 'hell week'. It was kind of an opportunity for the pledgees to prove to their big sisters, and the world, that they had learned what they were suppose to learn and were indeed worthy to cross the 'burning sands.' The lenghty recitations (sp?) and steps were similar to the ones today. I remember my mother being particularly put out when her sorority's group of pledgees messed up. Not because she was embarassed of them, but because she knew that, as a graduate advisor, she would be up half the night making sure nothing bad happened to the girls.
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PositivelyAKA:
I am a memeber of a non-NPHC greek-lettered organization, Sigma Alpha Iota International Professional Music Fraternity for Women and I must comment on a few things you mentioned in you post. You stated that you didn't think that these "new organizations" know not to copy colors, calls, or hand signs, etc..., well, I am really tried of people believing that because it has not always been at your university, the org is new. We have this problem at our school (an HBCU), my fraternity's colors are crimson and white and have been since 1903. Therefore, I believe we were around way before any of the Divine Nine. Likewise, with other non-NPHC org, they have been around for a long time (I.E. Phi Mu Alpha founded 1898). My message is to KNOW and then discuss because my org is not trying to be like any other, we are just doing what we love to do, be it stepping, singing, or whatever! Please excuse me if you felt I attacked you, I am just tried of the mentality. divinerose |
FYI:
I believe that using the term "probate show" when describing the presentation of new initiates is incorrect. From listening to older folks, I've learned that a probate show was a show put on by pledges of a greek organization. These shows weren't always positive experiences for the pledges performing, from what I understand. A better term would be "coming out show," "neophyte" (a term we use in the Midwest to describe both new members and the step show/party given to present them and give gifts), etc. divinerose: I think that what gets many NPHC members riled up about non-NPHC organizations is the appropriation of NPHC-founded symbols, imagery, language, and behavior, all the while saying that these things (hand signs, calls, steps, terms: sands, ship, line brother/sister, crossing the burning sands, etc.) are not imitations of the original. True, no one organization owns these things, but it is clear that NPHC organizations created them/brought them to prominence (be that good or bad). Personally, I feel no ill will toward non-NPHC groups, but I do wonder if we are diluting our community service, financial, and political strength by adding more groups with similar aims. Having spent much of my professional career in nonprofit organizations, I have seen service-duplication create resource drainage, and it gets frustrating to compete with similar orgs. for talent, money, and other resources. I see the same thing with GLOs whose primary aim is to serve African American communities. |
Greetings all...I saw this topic and I had to respond to it.
I am a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority in Atlanta. Yes, some of my chapters do partake in all apsects of the NPHC (stepping, hand signs and what have you). However, the majority of them do not, and I still embrace them as my sister/soror. I also recognize Alpha Phi Omega as my esteemed brothers of service. While I can write a whole lot on what's behind that relationship, I will say that my sorority was founded because of the willingness of the founders to become a sister organization to the fraternity. Some APO's don't recognize me as their sister and vice versa with GSS (not recognizing APO) but that doesn't mean the relationship between those that DO recognize it isn't there. I have love for ALL Greeks that uphold the standards which their founders set forth for them. So, although some of the members of black greeks don't care too much for me or my sorority, it doesn't mean I have to get down to their level and not care for them. It's all about who's the bigger person. My GSS chapter is pretty cool with everybody on my campus, so it's all love. If anyone has more questions let me know |
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APO is a national service fraternity, at least that's what they are at my school.
------------------ Steve Corbin Lambda Chi Alpha Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. |
This is my 1st time on Greeksource. One of my bruhs told me about Greeksource and informed me that there is a discussion going on about my sorority and my brother fraternity. Oh, I guess I should've started out by letting everybody know that I am a member of, what I consider to be the greatest sorority, Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority. And the brothers are Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity.
It intrigued me to know that there is a discussion going on about my sorority and our bruhs and our validity. And I have come to know that people fear the unknown. We get a lot of beef, including the brothers, from NPHC organizations, mainly because they don't know who we are. I have read most of the posts on this topic, and I have mixed feelings. I am proud to say that I am one of the 15 founders of my chapter, Zeta Upsilon at Ohio State University. So I take Gamma-Sig very seriously. First of all, we were founded in 1952 by 8 groups of white women, so no, we do not consider ourselves to be a Black GLO, although we do have a huge number of Black chapters and White chapters who have Black members, as well as Black sorors serving on our National Board of Directors. To clarify, yes we do hand signs, a call, colors, and we do step. Matter-of-factly, we hold it down whenever we come out!! And I want to let everyone know that we do none of this to imitate anything the NPHC or BGLOs have taken on as traditions. In my opinion, we do these things because it is particular to us as Africans. So when I hear NPHC members say that Gamma-Sig and A-Phi-Q are not "Greek", it makes me sad because obviously somebody wasn't taught what they ought to know about the "Greek" system they live and die by!!!! It's important for us as members of GLOs to know the true African origins of our letters. So that there will be no more misconstrued ideas nor posts about GSS and A-Phi-Q, we are BOTH national service organizations, not a business fraternity like someone mentioned prior. In service, Iacoca |
I thought APO was a coed service fraternity. No disrespect meant, but if it is, what is the need for a sister sorority. On a side note, I think I would die of laughter if I saw the APO's at my school stepping, throwing up signs, or doing calls. You just have to know them to understand.
------------------ Steve Corbin Lambda Chi Alpha Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. |
I agree with Steve. I'd be rollin' all over the floor if I saw APhiO steppin. At my school APhiO doesn't consider THEMSELVES Greek. I do though, but I know everthing changes at different chapters.
I'm also confused as to how a CO-ED service glo can have chapter with all men. Then those chapters develop a sister relationship with GSS. Aren't APhiO National's a little curious as to why theres no girls on their roster at those schools? |
As far as Alpha Phi Omega's Nationals' curiosity about all-male chapters, they do allow all-male chapters under certain stipulations. We were founded all-male, and in 1976 allowed women to join. The all-male chapters who wished to remain all-male at the time we went coed could do so. 'Nuff said.
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Well said, my soror!
As I said in my last post, GSS is NOT, I repeat, NOT a BGLO, is was in fact founded by white women representing 8 different colleges/universities, and I embrace all my sisters whether they are black, white or purple...it doesen't matter to me :C) Secondly, I don't really like the term "social" when it comes to Greeks because we all ought to be using our time serving others, giving to your national philantropy (sp!), whatever. Of course we all make time for fun and fellowship, but I think what's most important is that we're all out there doing something positive for our communities. As for my brothers, I feel you should ask a brother of Alpha Phi Omega to answer your questions in depth. But they aren't a Christian fraternity, I know that for sure :C) I am one of the 18 founders of my chapter, Zeta Tau at Georgia State University. And I wouldn't trade my experience or my beloved sorority for the world! |
Rain Man, I know you are not a soror! :C) What's up bruh!
I feel what you're saying...to each his own, that's what I say. And why not have a sister org? That's why I said in my last post, I could go into a novel about why we're brother and sister :C) But I love my brothers of Alpha Phi Omega, and I will continue to work with them side by side! |
i am a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated, a member of Alpha Phi Omega bka A Phi Q or APO (Alpha Gamma Gamma chapter at Hunter College in NYC).
since the inception of the co-ed fraternity (1925), there has alway been a handshake and secret signs. The stepping came into play when african amercian joined. I've been to several viking chapters that are only african amerian men and have a call "skeet skeet" and even some of these men don't acknowledge me. most do, because i can handle my own and i know my history!!! ------------------ "the ORIGINAL soror from the dirtiest part of the south" (cheese grits, hogmahs and fatback) MaMaBuddha Delta Alpha/Epsilon Tau Spring 94 the 24th Diva of Perfection |
-well, first off... i am a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. i want to say that no sorority or fraternity can truly lay claim to the words 'frat' or 'soror' when referring to a counterpart group except Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma, off tops!
-second...i think that for organizations whose traditions and practices and purposes for existing are not the same as those of the nine traditionally african american fraternities and sororities, offense should not be taken when someone talks about one organization imitating another. GLO's differ from BGLO's in their organization and initiations and such so much that comparisons cannot and should not be drawn between them. however, the imitation that is referred to, that is so thouroughly disdained, is that of non-NPHC BGLO's that 'coincidentally' have similar colors and handsigns and calls intake processes and etcetera to those of the nine NPHC BGLO's, in some mixture or another. AND, on top of everything they wanna step, but claim to be innovators of something new...huh! those organizations may very well be service organizations, but they trivialize the existence of the nine NPHC BGLO's. it's a slap in the face of any memeber when this sort of imitation occurs. i don't have a problem with an organization that starts up and does something different and tries to find a different way to enlighten the community and uplift us all; i commend any such organization. on my campus at the university of missouri-columbia, there is a start-up organization, Sa-En-Ra, that is very african based in its principles and ideas and methodology. they have no calls or hadsigns or the like, but they are a fraternal organization [minus the Greek letters]. they are a superb group of men. i don't have any problems with similar such BGLO's. -thirdly, the word probate alludes to a time period early in the twetieth century when hazing was absolutely rampant on college campuses eveywhere; it was germaine to most people's college experience. when joing an organization, especially a fraternity or sorority, you were considered 'on probation' -- not worthy of full membership. near or at the end of your 'probation' you would put on a show for the public demonstraing your worthiness, a probate show. over time, the elaborateness (sp?) of the show has remained the same (songs, steps, etc.), but it is more for entertainment value and purposes of presentation of new members (neophytes). this is why a 'probate' is more commonly referred to as a neophyte [show]. -lastly, if we [members of all GLO's] could remember the the reasons why our organizations exist, and the true spirit if fraternity...that's all that matters, really. i'm out |
To Gamma Girl 52, How's it goin', soror?
To Someblueguy, As far as for (B)GLOs other than ZPBS laying true claim to the whole "frat" and "soror" part, no one is disputing that fact. Nonetheless, many of the orgs do it anyway IN SPITE OF. Yes, I call the Gamma Sigs sorors, and they call us (A Phi Qs) frat. Just because there is no constitutional bond does not mean a sister/brother bond is to be negated. This holds true for Alpha/AKA, Delta/Omega, etc., or any combination of the above. HOWEVER (in my best Art Fleming "Jeopardy" voice) Over the past 5-6 years, there has been arising quite a few CONSTITUIONALLY BOUND BGLOs; to name a few Phi Rho Eta Fraternity and Gamma Phi Rho Sorority, and Gamma Phi Eta Fraternity and Xi Gamma Phi Sorority. So come to think of it, your initial analogy is technically incorrect, though I can see your overlying point. BTW, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Da Rain Man |
GSS and APHIQ- Question? Is that relationship a nationally recognized one (like Zeta/Sigma or AKA/Alpha) or is it something that is only recognized on HBCU's??
ZetaAce |
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The idea that APO does still have all-male chapters blows my mind, although my chapter was chartered the year APO went co-ed nationally, so we've never known any other way. (Opening can o' worms) To those from all-male APO chapters....say I would have transferred from my college & co-ed APO chapter, to a college that had an all-male APO chapter. Would I have been accepted? Since we have a nonselective membership policy, they'd kind of have to, wouldn't they? |
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This is to 33 girl
Your statement about APQ and GSS being recognized only at HBCUs is not correct, although that is where it is primarily recognized. The APO(Q)/GSS bond is recognized at mainstream single-gender chapters at such schools as Drexel, Duquesne, U of Delaware, Clemson, and Western Kentucky Univ. As far as all-male chapters having to admit a transfer female, that also is not necessairily true. Case in point, Delta chapter at Auburn Univ. (Ala.) is the oldest all-male chapter, and the most continuouly active chapter in APO (never been inactive since it's founding 10/31/27). They are a die-hard all-male chapter and vows to stay that way, and will not admit transfer female brothers, or for that matter ANY TRANSFER BROTHER regardless of gender. So no all-male chapter is required to admit women, though Nationals is pushing that one HARD. Da Rain Man |
This is to 33 girl
Your statement about APQ and GSS being recognized only at HBCUs is not correct, although that is where it is primarily recognized. The APO(Q)/GSS bond is recognized at mainstream single-gender chapters at such schools as Drexel, Duquesne, U of Delaware, Clemson, and Western Kentucky Univ. As far as all-male chapters having to admit a transfer female, that also is not necessairily true. Case in point, Delta chapter at Auburn Univ. (Ala.) is the oldest all-male chapter, and the most continuouly active chapter in APO (never been inactive since it's founding 10/31/27). They are a die-hard all-male chapter and vows to stay that way, and will not admit transfer female brothers, or for that matter ANY TRANSFER BROTHER regardless of gender. So no all-male chapter is required to admit women, though Nationals is pushing that one HARD. Da Rain Man |
-well, i'm glad you appreciate my posting, thanks. i was surfing the internet looking at sigma stuff, and i found this place.
-anyway, to tell you the truth, about other greeks using the terms frat and soror, i sometimes have a problem with it. but, i never really thought about it the way you just broke it down. however, on my campus the alpha's and aka's ain't really cool with each other [in fact the alpha's and delta's are real cool] yet and still they still try to front for the non-greeks and call each other frat and soror and give each other special shoutouts [like at parties and stepshows]. also, the same thing with the delta's and que's -- until spr200 there was only 1 or 2 que's at any one time -- so, they never do anything together, but they still use 'frat' and 'soror'. that's what i have a problem with, FRONTIN'. it's like a disease on my campus, there's just way too much. so, in essence i guess, i don't have a problem with aka's/alpha's or delta's/omega's or gss's/apo's or anybody else in general, just the one's on my campus. -i'm out |
So no all-male chapter is required to admit women, though Nationals is pushing that one HARD. Da Rain Man[/B][/QUOTE] If chapters are all male...whatever...because it's all about SERVICE and if they are busting their butts doing service that’s the most important thing cause that’s APO’s purpose. But quite frankly, I’m surprised APO national hasn’t gotten sued over this one. Like I said, I’ve never known any other way but coed...to me, it’s kind of like if my sorority would decide to admit guys only in reverse. FWIW, my sorority sister’s brother pledged GSS and they HAD to let him in. Why he didn’t go APO I don’t know. |
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