Should you always take a legacy?
 

I don't want to start a battle or anything here, but I am just curious. I can see both sides of the spectrum. I won't specifically say it happened in my plegde class - but I will say I am familier with both these situations.

A.) We had an in house legacy go through recruitment at the same time I did. DG is very pushy towards giving legacies a bid, so even though the majority of girls didn't like this one in particular - they extended her a bid. She got cut from the majority of sororities during recruitment, which scared some other people from keeping DG on their list (I know this for a fact). She complained the whole week about not wanting to be a DG until everyone else had cut her. Then she suddenly was excited about being a DG. Now she only has like 2 or 3 people out of the entire sorority who likes her.

B.) During recruitment, a legacy came through and cut DG. She prefed two other GREAT sororities at my school, but when she didn't get a bid from either of them, she told her mom that she just thought the girls at DG didn't like her - so she cut us. Her mom (of coarse being an alumna gave her a HUGE voice), talked to our head advisor and president and became our only extra girl after recruitment to be picked up. Everyone welcomed her with open arms, but she never does anything with us. She only wears the letters. She doesn't go to any philanthropy events, sisterhood events, or parties. She gets her mom to call in and give us excuses about her being sick or what not.

I know legacies are important, and I hope my daughter will like DG also - but I also understand that personalities of chapters can change a lot in 25-30 years, and just becuase I was good for my chapter at the time doesn't mean my daughter is good for it.

I don't know - maybe I am not making any sense, and I am definitly not saying forget about giving special priority to legacies. They should definitly be given some care and effort during recruitment, but should you *have* to take them if you don't really fit with them just to please their mothers? I know you really don't have to, but some chapters feel obligated to take legacies (not to mention scared of the girl's mother if they cut her).

Sticky situation, but I would like some of your opinions. I just offered two examples that I know of above as reasons why I ask this.

I would say no, you shouldn't feel obligated to take a legacy. BUT, I also have heard how mothers and grandmothers can be and how HQs are going to cave to alumna who give support and money.

Personally, I think it's sad that some alumnae don't have enough faith in the collegians to pick the best girls for themselves. If they didn't pick her, well she must not be as ABC material as mom thinks.

If I had a legacy I probably would be upset if Gamma Phi cut her, but I hope I would be rational enough to realize that there were reasons.

meridionaleDG I think you gave two great examples.

Just to add a point, down South, if every chapter took every legacy, you honestly could have entire chapters made up of nothig BUT legacies!

I agree, give them a closer look, but automatic???

It shouldn't be automatic. If the woman shows genuine interest (and it is easy to distinguish from insincere interest to please her mother/grandmother/sister), and the house genuinely likes her, yes, then accept the legacy. But, my chapter had an experience where we had a legacy, where her grandmother wrote the chapter...she was really uninterested, and our advisor basically said to forget about her. So, there are some alumnae who know what's up! :)

I don't see how a sorority could be forced to take legacies since at so many schools, there are chapters who have more legacies going through recruitment than spaces available. Also, sometimes it can be a disaster...the PNM is the kind who is going to wreck a chapter's rep or whatever.

When I was a new alum, the very strong chapter at the university where I was in grad school cut the alum club president's daughter. I got the idea I was supposed to be siding with the alums but I had to go with the actives on this one...they KNEW what the girl was like. Sure enough, the sorority that got her hated her almost instantaneously, as she had a gift for sowing discord and wrecking meetings. Thank God that no one forced our chapter to take her.

Well, we aren't forced - it is more of a matter of feeling some sort of obligation to our alumnae.

I mean - like in the second situation I gave, the girl didn't like us but she told her mother a completely different story after she was cut from everything. If we would have told her mother sorry, but we don't want to pledge her - it would have come down to it being *our* fault, even though she cut us. The mom is going to side with her daughter.

Argh - I have some stories that I would share if they weren't about ritual, but I can say that whenever her mother came to watch different things we do before initiation, she was giving some of the girls (MY SISTERS) these terrible looks and rolling her eyes at them when they were openning up to the entire chapter. Excuse me, I know that you are an alumnae and stuff - but please don't roll your eyes and be snotty towards new people - I mean after all this is the chapter you want your daughter to be in.

I don't know - I guess I just don't understand. On one side you want to make your alumnae happy, and on the other side you want to do what is best for your chapter.

It's a delicate issue. We had several BIG legacies come through this year (ie every female member of their family was an AXO). Usually, in our sorority, I've seen that they are some of the most active, enthusiastic members because they've heard so much about sorority life for so long and are very eager to partake in what their relatives did.

Oh I am all about legacies that want to be there - and as far as everyone knows the girl in the first situation wanted to be a DG from the start. I was the only one who saw how much she was complaining about DG and that if she didn't go Tri-Delt everyone in her town would think she was a failure. Once they cut her, she was like "I guess DG won't cut me because of my mom - alright I like DG now."

I was hoping that one of our 2 Rho Chis was a DG and could send some kind of word back to the mainland. hahaha But even if one of them were I knew they couldn't do that. One of my Rho Chi's who turned out to be a Chi-O was so upset when she learned her chapter was going to give a bid to this one girl who was making out with the deejay at one of the nightly rush gatherings we had. She got kind of depressed because there was nothing she could do.

Out of respect for the Alumnae and for the organization, I think it's important to extend bids to legacies. Legacies are an important part of an organization. Not extending a bid could cause hurt and resentment from the Alumnae. This could cause the Alumnae to lose respect for their organizations, thereby excluding themselves from their Alumnae group and hence, philanthropic work, donations, referrals, etc.

If my hypothetcial daughter attends a school where a Sigma Kappa chapter exists, and is not extended a bid, I would be hurt. If it's her choice to join another organization that would be different. Although I might still feel hurt, it would be a different type of hurt. It's the choice factor.

My opinion stems from the fact that I have a strong desire for tradition, I am proud of my organization, and I hope that my hypothetical daughter is given the chance, if nothing else, to be a part of our mystic bond.

****
Due to my beliefs on legacies, I regret not
speaking up on behalf of a legacy and potential
new member during my one and only recruitment experience.

interesting question
 

I often find that legacies are looked at under too fine a microscope in recruitment. Instead of "extending every courtesy" chapters often "grill and broil!" One mistake and she's the chatter of the chapter.

Legacies are an important part of planning for the future and perserrving our past. Think about how you would want your child treated at recruitment...

I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case.

I'd love for my future daughters to become Tri Delts if at all possible . . . but I know that no matter what they end up like, they're not going to fit in at every Tri Delta chapter around the nation. (I know I wouldn't!) I'd rather they have a great Greek experience, regardless of their affiliation, or even just a great college experience, Greek or not, than end up in a chapter they're going to hate just because the chapter felt pressured to extend them a bid or they felt pressured to join that chapter because I was a Tri Delt.

Well said Sugar and Spice! I have three girls, and while I hope that they join Alpha Chi Omega someday, I want them to have a wonderful college and sorority experience that works for them personally. They will grow up knowing how much Alpha Chi means to me, and will hopefully find their own special bond of sisterhood in college.

This is a really good question...personally, I don't think chapter should be made to take legacies that they don't believe will fit in, but at the same time I can see not wanting to tick off alumnae. So I really don't have an answer.

I was warned that legacies are not automatically "in" the sorority that they are a legacy to, and from my experience it's true (I was cut from the sorority I was a legacy to), but as I mentioned in other threads my chapter paid extra special attention to legacies during rush, as I'm sure most other chapters do.

I just wanted to say that I agree with all of you in that I want my hypothetical daughter to choose an organization that she feels the most comfortable with for whatever reason. I want her college experience to be the best it can be, as a member of a GLO or not, as a member of my GLO or not. However, I just feel, as I stated above, that legacies should be given careful consideration, for all of the reasons I mentioned.

Is it just me or does it seem that sometimes being a legacy can hurt you?

And please note, I am not a legacy and I do not have children.

I understand legacies' getting a lot more attention, but I don't think it's fair that they're scruntinized more than the other PNMs. In my mind, "every courtesy" means "every chance," not "every opportunity to mess up." I mean, if a legacy turns out to be a nightmare, then drop her, but if she is just acting like every other PNM, then why shouldn't she have the same latitude that other PNMs have? They're not royalty, they're college freshmen.

At my school there is huge competition (by some chapters) to "steal" another chapters legacy. We give special consideration to legacies but we have also been known to drop legacies when they would be a detriment to our chapter. Luckily our Alumnae base in vegas really isn't old enough to have legacies going through yet (we came on campus in 1987) the majority of our legacies come from out of state, so we never have direct contact with an agry mother or grandmother, yet.

I've spoke on this topic previously, and I still really believe that legacies need to be extended a bid without a REALLY valid excuse. I know if I have a daughter one day and she wants to go D Phi E and is cut, I'd be upset. BUT, if she doesn't want it, that's ok by me. Most alumnae feel it is a respect issue to give bids to their daughters, and if the alum is a money donating, active alum, then I think their daughter deserves special consideration. But the overscrutinizing that goes on does really suck!

We've never had a legacy. (Ok so part of that is AST is TINY) but anyhow, it seems like if any of our alumnae had a daughter go through they'd put tons of pressure on us. I totally understand the connection thing, but there is a point when parents/alumnae need to let both the chapter/daughter make their own choice and respect that choice, not just stop supporting it. Chapter's have personalitites that change. I think legacies are a great idea, and the chapter's that scrutinize them need to relax but so do parents. I don't mean to blame alumnae, it isn't only their fault but the chapter's too. it's like the last few posts pointed out, what is more important, their college experience or their letters?


edit- ok so say you accept every legacy except the slutty, poor grades etc. how do you explain that to an alumna when she thinks you've just rejected her daughter on the grounds of being slutty? and what if that is only a rumor? you've just labeled her to everyother sorority... just a thought...

sugarandspice-I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case.

I think this would be the most "perfect" way it could be handled.
I wish this were the rule of thumb-and perhaps it really is.
In my heart, I think there should be NO EXCEPTION if an IN HOUSE legacy wants to be there. OK...baring any criminal records, slutty behavior or failure to make the grades required...I'm talking a normal, all around, regular girl.
If her sister is active, she should be invited as well. I would only hope this is the way it is.

That wasn't the case for a friend of mine when she went to Ok State. It was so sad, her older sister was devastated, she was very close to dissaffiliating. And my friend was a great PNM. Valedvictorian of our class, into all sorts of activities & sports, a very good looking young woman. But she was voted against. She went to another very good house, but they probably are both not involved now that they are alumna. The organization probably lost out on two sisters active for life, because a few people wanted to vote no to one. Very sad.

A few years ago at one of our chapters a double leg (mom & grandma) went through, didn't get a bid and m & g went on the warpath. I am guessing the above was close to what happened -the daughter went through, turned her nose up at us then got cut elsewhere and changed her mind. Either that, or she didn't mention her connection at all because she really wasn't interested, and bsed her relatives to make it look like our fault, not hers.

This is not directed toward anyone, but if your sister or cousin is coming through rush and you want her to pledge your chapter, make sure you yourself are on solid footing with the rest of the sorority. It just so happened that with our in-house legs, they were little sisters of girls that everyone absolutely loved and adored or were around enough before pledging to connect with us on their own. I can think of a few women where if the girl had just shown up and the sister said "this is my sister" it could have gotten hairy.

Well just kind of commenting to the post above mine (Hootie), I agree with you. I don't think it should be a definite for legacies to get a bid. I can add another reason/perscpective to that.

I am not a legacy at all. My mom wasn't in a sorority and neither were any of my grandmothers. The closest I will ever come to being a legacy is that both my aunts were Chi-O's at my school, but that just gives me 2 strongs recs - not a legacy position. And even if it did make me a legacy, I wouldn't have gone Chi-O. They are a great chapter (a lot of people consider them the best at my school), but they just aren't me. We had things to talk about and very pleasent conversations, but I could tell my heart was elsewhere. I wouldn't want them to feel any obligation towards me, and I wouldn't want to have to feel any obligation towards them because of my aunts. Then that bond will have just been formed on obligation, and not truthfully in your heart. That is a HUGE reason why I loved DG. DG kept inviting me back even though they were the only sorority I didn't have recs for. We just made that connection - and I knew they liked me for who I was, and not what an alumna wrote on a sheet of paper. I feel like maybe that would be a downside of being a legacy. I sure as heck wouldn't want a sorority to extend me a bid only because of my status.

Now, if every sorority where to extend bids to their legacies first - and then they would sort out the rest, what would happen to girls like me? What if the legacies that go through make up so much of the quota that I am not able to get a bid even though I probably clicked with the girls better. Just because you are a legacy doesn't mean you and the chapter will click. People and attitudes change over the years and so do chapters.

There is no easy explination for the question - but I have to third the person who said "I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case." - but I guess the next question is, how do you tell their mom or grandmother the reason when they call all upset? Honestly, what would the girl say to her mother and grandmother is she didn't like the chapter, and the reason she cut them. You don't want to hurt anyones feelings - no one does.

Sticky!!!!

Hootie, I agree with you at schools that have large recruitments with many legacies, you can't take them all. I was basing my view on what the AVERAGE school has. I don't think situations like UGA, UT-Austin, LSU are necessarily the norm. I mean Penn State has a HUGE greek system, and while it's somewhat competitive, it's far from the cut-throat system at Ole Miss or something.

In situations that allow it, I hope that legacies are given every opportunity is what I ask. Bid Guarantees aren't necessary, but a damn good reason for schools that aren't ridiculously full of legacies, I think that's reasonable.

I second that emotion.I don't know how other sororities work this, but in Kappa, we give no information to the legacy relation. If they call all pissy, we just have to say, "I'm sorry, but we do not discuss membership selection outside of the chapter." The only people who know what's going on are the chapter actives and the membership advisor(s). The rule is widely published and the same all throughout Kappa, so alumnae know not to put actives in that uncomfortable situation. We do not inform legacies' relations if the legacy is released; that information belongs to the legacy alone.

Legacies
 

According to my understandings of how my school and chapter works. In order to be classified as a legacy you must disclose this information prior to the begining of formal recruitment. This is to prevent girls from not telling and then blaming the chapters for not taking into consideration that they are a legacy. We do have chapters that try and steal other chapters legacies every year. Our formal recruitment has been small in the past, last year quota was nine. Most chapters will have a legacy or two each year, my chapters only been there for five years we ususally have less legacies than other chapters.

Within my chapter, and this is all based on my understandings please correct me if I'm wrong, we pretty much have to bid legacies. If we make the decision to cut a legacy, especailly one with rec's we have to call the person who they are a legacy of and tell them why. I know what your all thinking right now OUCH! Yeah, I can only imagine how much it would have to suck to be the person making the phone call. I don't think the chapters ever had to do that, we've only been at UT since 97.
~Shady

in the recent SIGMA KAPPA TRIANGLE there was an article about legacies. Nationally sigma kappa takes legacies to the upmost importance. there were several features on how daughters, sisters, grand daughters, and nieces became sigma kappas and how their relationship grew just because of sigma kappa. if you would like to read this articke go to http://www.sigmakappa.org/currents/c..._triangle.html and press feature article.
in my opinion the legacy already has a positive idea of the sorority, because of her family. she already knows how much she can get from a sisterhood. if they are well minded and not crazy, then sure give them a bid, if not then she "will end up where she is meant to be"

I wish I knew how all this stuff really worked. My sister attended the same college that I go to now (she's 9 years older than me, so not on campus at the same time as me, obviously), and I was a legacy through her. I adored this house when I went through recruitment, and not because I was a legacy, but because the girls were wonderful. Imagine my dismay when I had been going to their parties all week during recruitment, and I got my list of houses to go to on pref day and they weren't on it. I'm happy where I am, but it still bugs me a little because to this day I have no idea why I was cut. I wasn't expecting to get in automatically because I was a legacy, but I thought that should give me a little extra consideration, plus I loved the house and thought everyone there liked me too. <Sigh> :rolleyes:

we had a legacy go through last year and i don't know if she dropped or went somewhere else, but she didn't appear at our house on bid day. i was actully really relieved about that becuase i felt more unconfortable around that girl than around anyother person i had ever met. she wouldn't have fit into our sisterhood at all. i really hope she found her home or realized that greek life wasn't for her after all (it really isn't for some people...i'm not saying that to be mean or anything)

I think our legacy rules are pretty standard:

•The Fraternity expects all collegiate chapters to give serious
consideration to each legacy out of courtesy to the ÁÃ∆ member
to whom she is related.
•A legacy must be invited to at least one invitational round of the
chapter’s recruitment functions.
•If a chapter releases a legacy, an advisor for the chapter must
contact the ÁÃ∆ relative of the legacy to inform her of the legacy’s
release from membership consideration. All efforts must be taken
to contact the relative prior to the distribution of invitations to the
next round of recruitment events.
•If a chapter invites a legacy to Preference (final function), the
legacy must be placed on the chapter’s first bid list.

I don't know if the advisor has to give a reason. But I agree with everyone that it should be a really, really good reason if you are going to release a legacy. They might not be a perfect fit, or the normal type of girl that is invited to the group, but this can give the chapter some diversity. If it is truly a wrong fit hopefully the pnm will figure that out on their own without the group having to be the bad guys and hurt the alums, thus hurting the organization. Most schools don't have more legacy than bids, so I think except in those special cases, legacies should be invited back.