Fighting a speeding ticket
 

So the other day my husband got a speeding ticket. I'm sure many of you know the drill - cop sees car with out-of-state plates, cop hits car with instant-on radar (which is the invention of the devil :mad: ), cop adds 5-10mph to whatever it registers, cop writes ticket for large sum of money. (Actually, in New York they will no longer tell you the $ amount - "it's up to the judge" the cops say. :rolleyes: ) They target out-of-staters because they figure they will just pay the fine rather than schlep to court and risk getting the points reported to their home state.

But DH is stubborn, we can ill afford the fine, and he doesn't want points on his license, so he's fighting the ticket. He has already sent in his plea of not guilty, and we're waiting on the court date. He's hoping that either the cop won't show up, or that he can get the ticket thrown out because the cop misspelled our street address or because we were racing to the airport to make a flight. He's been advised that he'll be offered the chance to plead guilty to a lesser offense that doesn't carry points (such as a parking ticket - like you can park on an interstate!) and that he will need to pay the fine, in cash, on the spot at traffic court.

So - anyone else been down this road? (pun intended ;) ) Advice?

I was going to fight my ticket but I dunno how much Cali law differs from NY law. I went 55 in a 40 but I was the only one on the road but I do admit to DWB (driving while brown) in a BMW which I DIDN'T steal. I guess with the budget crisis in Cali the cops are forced to bring in as much revenue.

Yep, same deal in NY. The state and the towns are hurting financially, so they figure they'll collect a little "road usage tax" and out-of-staters will just quietly pay up. :mad:

This used to happen all the time to people driving to college in upstate NY and PA. They used to have an option of pay the fine within the week and there will be no points. I don't know if that is still the case or not.

Good luck fighting the ticket. :)

Out of state tickets don't carry points on your license I thought? Well, in any case, fighting a ticket, regardless of what happened is a smart idea.

The idea goes you show up in court, the judge asks if you plead guilty or not guilty, so then you'll stand over by the not guilty group. Then you'll be told to go wait on line or outside until the prosecutor can speak to you about the ticket. He/She will ask you what happened, and which point you'll make the case. No matter what you say (Aliens were chasing me), you'll get no pity from them. They'll offer you a higher fine and no points, or you can take a chance with judge directly. 9 times out of 10, you will not sway a judge, they support the police unless you got a plunger jammed up your ass while being frisked (even then a judge may not be on your side).

So, long story short (too late) take the fine and suck it up. If you want to avoid the points, go with what I said, it's the way our society works.


Goodluck!


RUgreek

Well i am sorry to say but if the Cop shows, which he most likely will do you aren't getting off. Most likely a plea will be given they almost always do that. And even if the cop is a no show its gonna be tough to get off. The cops are supposedly very trust worthy. Even little things like the mispelling won't get you off, i know a guy who was charged with the wrong criminal act and they just changed the charge at trial.

Re: Fighting a speeding ticket
 

95% of the time, the judge is going to believe the cop over the defendant. That said, I once watched a defendant represent himself at a bench trial on a speeding ticket and he won. That is very, very rare.

Of course I know nothing about New York law, but I can say that a lot of what happens in court completely depends on the judge and the state's attorney. Before I went to law school, I fought a traffic ticket in Cook County and won. There, the procedure was a lot like what RUgreek described. However, when I used to work in traffic/misdemeanor court in Kane County, it was different because cases actually get set for trial after the first court appearance, and that means that it is much more likely that the cop will show up if he/she knows there is a trial.

In my experience, if it's a minor thing like speeding and the cop doesn't show up for the trial, it gets dismissed. Sometimes the state will get a continuance, but not usually for such a little thing.

In my experience, I have never seen a ticket get thrown out because of anything being spelled wrong, and rushing to make a flight is not a defense to anything. It might be a good idea for him to consider whatever offer he gets at court. In Illinois at least, we have court supervision, and that doesn't affect your insurance rates.

Ah... lovely. :(

Out-of-state tickets used to not carry points, but these days, neighboring states tend to communicate - so if DH pleaded guilty he might very well have gotten the points along with the fine, just as if it had been in-state.

DH has already pleaded not guilty, so I think we're stuck with going to trial.

He was supposedly clocked at 80 in a 55 zone. This is on an interstate that can easily support 65 (and everyone does 80 or more). He was the unlucky one. :mad:

valkyrie - yes, part of what I'm concerned about is our insurance. I hit a patch of ice last winter and our insurance rates skyrocketed :( I don't want anything like that to happen again.

You either missed the point entirely or you wont accept resposibility for your actions. You were going 55 in a 40, where I come from that is speeding, so don't go saying that the cop was racist and pulled you over just for that.

Unfortunately I don't have any advice, but I can share with you my very own Cops-Are-A**holes story...

I was driving home from my sister's engagement party, which was in the city I went to university in, to my family's house about 45 minutes away. It was late at night, but the street lights are so bright in town that I didn't notice I didn't have my headlamps fully turned on. Well, directly I see this cop following me, but he didn't have his lights on so I didn't stop. After a couple of blocks, the cop's lights go on, so I pull over at a gas station just in case he's after me. He turned on that huge flashlight thing and aimed it directly at my rearview mirror before he got out of his car and came over to my window and did the usual spiel ("Let's see license, registration, insurance...yada yada"). The trouble started when he asked me if I had been drinking and I said no, because I hadn't. Well, to make a long story short, the moron was convinced that I had definitely been drinking because 1) I was driving at night, and 2) I had on a cocktail dress. He grilled me about where I was going, where I'd been, what I was doing on the road, my parents' names, why I had overnight bags in my truck, etc etc. I guess he was put out that he didn't catch me driving drunk, so he wrote me a ticket even though I had never been pulled over before...come on, who gets a ticket for not having their headlights on bright enough? The guy was a complete jerk about it, and I ended up having to pay about $80, so I totally feel sorry for you. Your situation is a lot worse than mine was, but please know that you get those kind of cops everywhere.

Speeding and other traffic offenses are strict liability laws, so while most crimes require you to have criminal intent to be prosecuted just the fact that you commited this act is enough for you to be held responsible, so no reason you give for it will be enough to have the judge let you off. Chances are that you will have to pay the fine, I'd still fight it if it isn't too far to go though, the judge may have mercy on you and give a one-year suspended dissposition which is like saying if you promise to be a good boy for a year and commit no more crimes they'll just forget all about it.

A little hijack...

My little brother recieved a ticket for DUI in Texas on the way home from the OU/TX game. Cop writes that his Blood/Alcohol % was .3. That would make him dead.

Then the cop allows him to drive home. It was really .03 and since he was a minor, anything over .01 is considered DUI.

He got out of this one I *think* because of the poorly written ticket. I really don't actually know how he got out of it but he did.

This isn't directed at any particular post above, but is just my general sentiment after reading this thread:

Ok, I can't believe this is about to come out of my mouth b/c I am a liberal Democrat, but how come we hire police officers to enforce strict liability laws and then as soon as anyone gets a ticket the police officers are Aholes? Sorry, doesn't compute. Yes, everyone may have been doing it and the cop only pulled you over. They say you commit several hundred (depending on the driver) traffic crimes for each time you're caught. Yes, it sucks that you got a ticket and not a warning, but why does that make the cop an Ahole? Unless they treated you poorly (if they really padded the radar reading, had you get out, frisked you, searched your car), or violated your civil rights they were doing their jobs. If you don't want them to do things like that then you need to lobby to change the laws so that driving with low headlights or 15 mph over the speed limit isn't a crime.

LD

aephi alum,

Could you explain a little more about the exact circumstances surrounding the ticket? i.e. How fast were you actually going, what was the posted speed limit, where was the cop when he/she spotted you, was the cop stationary or moving, facing what direction, how fast were they moving (assuming they weren't stationary), etc. Despite the little rant I put up in the Academics forum, I have just finished a degree in physics. Perhaps I can help suggest an approach in court assuming the cop does show up. I'll need as many details as you can give me.

Oh I accept going 55 in a 40 it's just I noticed an attitude change from when I drove a beater Mazda to a new BMW. The cops back home in San Diego are more polite in my opinion than Costa Mesa/Orange County police. I used to think that people saying "oh I was DWB" was stupid but at certain times I feel people are justified that way. I grew up in an area that has a 20% minority rate but the community is very open and tolerant. I wouldn't have a problem if I was pulled over by San Diego police.

Random comments.

LAuraduv I really can't get mad at someone just doing their job. I'll leave aside the ridiculous amounts of things that states want to regulate about driving though.

I will say that a lot of our tickets today are a result of the war on drugs.

Drug offenses are the single largest block of crimes that are out there. Crime statistics are what give budgets for law enforcement.

Because of the War on Drugs huge increases in police personel have taken places as well as huge increases in salary for police officers. This usually means that there has been a large increase in police forces all across the nation.

Your basic front line police officer is ill-equipped for drug interdiction, the problem that gave him a job, however he is well equipped for traffic patrol. And in many municipilaties that is the vast majority of the duties that their police have, even though they have greatly augmented police forces for the so-called war on drugs.

So when you are driving through some small town and you see more police on the road than seems possible, you know where it comes from lol.

The justification, crack wars, the result, your speeding ticket.

i know a thing or two about tickets. i have gotten 7. 4 of which i got in the first 7 months of last year. i just recently crossed the one year mark of being ticket free. i have been to court twice. the judge actually said to me the second time 'i dont want to see you here again' how embarassing:o
i have three points on my license. i have been to traffic school five times (2 were court ordered). i am convinced that some of those tickets were falsely given to me. i am not that bad a driver. i now have a radar detector and it is a life saver. i KNOW that some cops are just bored and start giving tickets for everything. it sucks.

A few details on the ticket -

DH had just gotten on the highway, so I doubt he was going as fast as 80 - he hadn't had time to get up to that speed. I wasn't looking at the speedometer (I was in the car with him at the time) but I believe he was doing maybe 70-75. If I'm right, that means the cop padded the radar reading to get up to 80, which is 25+ mph over the speed limit (55), which is a higher fine. If the ticket had been for 75, he would have just taken his lumps and paid up. He is guilty of speeding, just not guilty of speeding that fast.

DH has gotten tickets before, but they're all old and out-of-state, and he paid up, so no points.

The cop did misspell our street address, but we weren't counting on that to get out of the ticket. He did get our last name right, which in and of itself is a challenge. :p

Cop was stationary, on the median, in amongst some tall grass (now I know why they haven't mowed the grass on that median all year!) and facing toward the direction we were coming from. He was definitely using instant-on radar because the radar detector only chirped once.

(The funny thing is, I've been pulled over for speeding exactly once, and got off with a warning... and my husband calls me a leadfoot... :p )

Yeah, cops are jerks.

A few years ago, I was on the highway and the speed limit was 70. I admit I was going 80 mph (I was set on cruise control). I see a cop up ahead so I begin to slow. My radar detector didn't start to go off until I was at about 73 mph. The cop pulls me over and claims that he clocked me at 88 mph. :eek: At this point, I was really upset because I knew this cop was lying. There was no way in hell he clocked me doing 88. So, I asked to see the radar. Of course, he said, "Oh, yeah, I forgot to lock it in when I read 88 on the radar." Liar.........
I explained to him that I was set on cruise control going 80 mph. The dude was still a jerk and wrote me a ticket for going 85 mph. In Florida, you have 3 options. option 1- pay the ticket and get the points on your license. option 2- pay the ticket and go to traffic school...no points on the license. option 3- appear in court. At the time, my friend was doing clerking at a law firm. Lucky me. The lawyer agreed to take my case (for free too....most lawyers charge within the $100's). The judge ended up finding me not guilty.
Moral of the story- hire a lawyer. Usually, they end up being cheaper than the ticket. Also, they can find out things on the cop that pulled you over that can make the ticket invalid such as: he forgot to get his speedometer calibrated or he didn't fill out paperwork correctly. Many of the times, the lawyer can get you out of the ticket.

sidenote: In Florida, cops usually don't make an appearance at the trial. The trial dates are set on days when they're off work. A lot of times, they don't want to take the time to appear in court on their day off. Many of my friends have represented themselves in court and won because the cop made a no-show. Still, I wouldn't recommend it. They tell you in Florida to not fight with the cop over the ticket...just smile and accept it. If the cop doesn't remember who you are, he most likely won't care enough to show up in court. Making the situation more "memorable" will only entice the cop to show up and make your chances of losing greater.

I just had an experience where the cop was really an asshole to me. I was speeding, not as much as he says I was, but I will admit I was speeding.

I was trying to pass someone, and I was in the far left lane, going over a "hill" on the interstate. The cop was on the downside of the "hill" I hit my brakes when I saw him and tried to slow down. He waved me down (which I think he's not supposed to do)

When I pulled over he waited for about 5 minutes before he put his bullhorn on and told me to "walk to the rear of the vehicle" I did, and he did the usual. I asked for a warning, and started crying because I was VERY VERY upset. I informed him that I was a student on the way home from law school, andI was trying to pass someone, etc.

He was a total dick about it. He told me "you have 5 seconds to sign this ticket..."

When I finally did sign it, and got back in my car, and pulled back onto the interstate HE FOLLOWED ME FOR ABOUT 5 MILES. I slowed down to about 40 and he passed me and sped away.

I need to fight it - the senior partner I'm working for right now can work magic in my home parish, but b/c this is in City of Baton Rouge, I don't know *anyone* We're goign to investigate and see who we can call.

i rememer two years ago when i came to a stop sign. i stopped and looked. i saw a car coming but it was kinda far away, so i went. there was a cop there and he just points at me. i pull over and park in a lot and he parks behind me. (in case i decide to make a break for it:rolleyes: ) he tells me that i ran the stop sign. wtf?! i am thinking 'i dont just run stop signs. i am not stupid'. i just give him this look. i get a ticket. what is worse is that i see people who dont even slow down at that stop sign. they just go right through it. is there a cop there to catch them? of course not!!:mad: nothing personal to those who are cops or personally know one, but i am not very fond of them. SOME of them are power hungry and like to abuse it.

Of course, these guys with little education or training wake up in the morning, strap on a gun, and they are THE LAW. How powerful is that? Most of them (around here at least) are high school grads/GEDs. I find it scary that these people weild guns and have any power whatsoever. Most of them aren't qualified enough or smart enough to flip burgers.

I find some of these comments about police officers unneccesarily rude. They are just doing their jobs which can be very dangerous. They don't know who they are pulling over. You could be a student or a criminal. They can't tell by looking at you. Next time, don't speed. :)

i wasnt trying to be rude. i just had an opinion about some of them.

The very first thing we learned in Criminal Procedure was that you NEVER EVER TELL A POLICE OFFICER YOU ARE A LAWYER when they have pulled you over.

Even if you are a lawyer and you work in law enforcement, you don't tell them. You can carry your badge with your driver's license so that when you pull it out they see it, but you don't shoot off at the mouth about it.

I guess while we've got cop stories going on, I'll tell the horrible one about the first, and only, time I got pulled over.

I was driving down the main drag of my hometown with my family, and the cop starts flashing his lights behind me. I immediately got a little flipped out, seeing as it was the very first time I was pulled over. I tried to stay calm, since I've been told the worst thing you can do is cry, but wasn't really succeeding. (Too top it off, I had already been having a bad day- I'm not normally that nervous.)

Anyways, I pull over and the cop tells me the reason he pulled me over is that one of my brake lights was out. Still struggling to stay calm, I tell him I didn't know. He's like, "It's okay, I'm just going to give you a warning."

He then asks for my liscense. I hand it to him. He looks at me, looks at the license, and he tells me, "You know, I could put you in jail right now."

Of course, I was just barely holding it together before then, and I started to cry and aked him why. He's like, "You're not wearing your corrective lenses."

My mom and I both chime in at once saying I wear contacts. So, the guy basically shot off his mouth to a girl he already knew was nervous about having been pulled over, jittery and on the edge of tears! He had even commented on my nerves and I told him it was the first time I had ever been pulled over. (I was nineteen then, so he commented that was pretty impressive.) He hadn't even bothered to ask or look before saying something practically calculated to upset me worse!

After that, I was so upset and nervous that I had to hand off the steering wheel to my mom. I don't generally have much of a problem with the police, but that one showed such a lack of tact and sense it was ridiculous!

my dad keeps his prosecutor's badge with his drivers license whenever possible for that very reason. too bad he hasn't had it the pst couple times he got pulled over driving me home from school...

I understand the "cops are just doing their job so they have to be rude because they don't know who they're dealing with" point, but do they need to be rude and obnoxious while doing this job? Every cop who has pulled me over (three times, thanks, and only one ticket) has been completely convinced that I must have been drinking because that's what people my age do, and they get put out when they find out different...I have never drank and gotten on the road. I don't think it's necessary for a cop to abuse his/her position by acting like a p-r-i-c-k, even though they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

Now, I'm sure the majority of cops are lovely little creatures who love serving the public, not making our lives more complicated than they are, so I can't say that I dislike cops in general. However, it is scary to think that the guy who lives up the road from me is now a cop, and that he used to be in trouble with the law all the time...and now he is the law. Eeeghghh...

I received a speeding ticket on the way to visit Mr. Tcsparky about three years ago. It was a raod that had had the speed limit reduced to 35 from 45 since my last visit. I was probably going 48 or so. He pulls me over and said I was going 55, and refused to allow me to get out of the car when I asked to see the radar screen. He then told me that he was going to write me a ticket, but that I was lucky, because he could pull my license for going that much over the limit, and that I should be careful on a road where children play (I'm thinking IN THE ROAD?!?).

[I though that perhaps my odometer was off, but later that month I was stopped for going TOO SLOW in the fast lane. My odometer read 67, he said my car was going only 60.]

I took the speeding ticket to a lawyer, he had it changed to "driving with improper equipment"- twice the fine but no points.

Well, I guess that's the perils of going to a 3rd tier law school - they didn't teach us that.

I wasn't trying to "shoot my mouth off" about it - I was trying something, anything to get out of this ticket.

:rolleyes:

I don't think Lauraduv was trying to offend you, I think you was just making a statement. :)

I had something kind of similar to this happen in December 2001. There's a blind corner near my school, so I stopped BEFORE the line, poked my head around the corner, and after seeing it was safe, went.

An officer heading the other way does a u-turn, and pulls me over in the middle of campus (very embarassing). I have NO CLUE why I just got pulled over. He claimed I had rolled the stop sign (and now, in retrospect, I can understand how from his perspective he might have seen that). He ended up putting on my ticket that I had pretty much blown the stop sign, but I knew it wouldn't be much use arguing semantics.

The guy was pretty rude, and I started crying because I had applied for a job at Space Camp and they ask about speeding violations because sometimes the counselors have to drive the campers. I didn't want it to seem like I had lied, or lose my chance at this job because I got pulled over. The guy took no sympathy on me, and told me if I wanted to save some money and the points on my license I could just go to traffic school.

Well I decided to fight the ticket because traffic school is NOT cheap and I didn't want the points either. When I got to court, I was PRAYING he wouldn't show (I'm originally from Illinois, so the officers are notorious for not showing up). He did, and since the guy looked like a Marine and scary, I was prepared for the worst.

He asked the judge to throw out my ticket because he didn't want me to not get the job because of it. I about wet myself! I thanked him afterward, which my boyfriend said I shouldn't have done, but I was very appreciate of him for understanding.

So sometimes police officers aren't in it for the right reasons, but they can also be really nice guys.

James is right. I wasn't trying to offend you or even talking about your response when I said that. I prefaced my statement with "Even if are a lawyer who works in law enforcement" you should say anything to the cop about it.

Sorry that I got you all riled (sp?) up.

*bump*

My husband had his day in court today. Apparently he plea bargained for speeding at a lesser speed. You have your plea bargaining talks with the cop who pulled you over (bias much? :confused: ) and you can take the plea bargain or go to trial.

Anyway, he was hit for $150 (I was expecting a much steeper fine). He also now has points on his license, but NY and CT don't share points, so he has a virtual driving record in NY with points on it but his CT license is clean. :confused: Not sure what the point of that is (no pun intended) except that it's all about local towns collecting a little "road usage tax" to feed their coffers.

grrr...

How about this...
 

Personally, when a cop has pulled me over, I have followed every command the officer has asked. And I am a firm believer that you just do not argue with the cop 'cuz if you think you are correct, then you can have your day in court...

So here is my story:

I was waiting for my California DL in the mail to be sent to me. I had only one speeding tix and I went to traffic school for that one in addition to paying the fine. Incidentally, the CHP doesn't put radar guns on the highway--some court case long time ago for some reason.

Anyhoo, I finally got the DMV letter stating that if I don't clear up these violations, I will NEVER get my license!!! Well, I only had ONE violation EVER!!! On the letter, the court number stated it was in Glendale, California.... Now, I'm from San Diego, and even LALAlandites don't know where Glendale, Cali is!!! Like where the Hell is Glendale???

So I called up the court and they listed like: Ran thru a red light, no seatbelt, no driver's license and no proof of insurance... Then the car was a "personalized license plate" and at the time, I OWNED NO CAR and my parents did not own a car like that!!!

The cop just asked for the first and last name, and the birthdate. The person had the correct month and year, but a different date of my birthday!!! So, when the tix never got paid or the court day just passed, the court sent the info to the DMV to track where this person might be, and they clued on me??? WTF!!! :mad:

Anyhoo, the court clerk or whoever said to write a letter stating the facts and sign my name 5 times... Then send a copy of the driver's license with my picture to them. What good that did me, 'cuz they put a warrant out for MY arrest!!!

Well, good thing I am one of the lucky ones--'cuz I am from a prominent family in San Diego, I was able to get a municipal court judge to review my case and call the other judge up in Glendale who dropped the charges...

Needless to say, this was back in 1991!!! :eek:

So, that's for my identity theft...

I don't know if anyone has ever used this but someone I know has asks/ed this question every time he goes/went to court for a speeding ticket:

"Can the officer verify whether or not s/he had calibrated his/her radar the evening s/he pulled me over?"

All officers pulling highway patrol (Calling PONCH!) are required to calibrate their radar guns before they go out on duty. If s/he cannot provide adequate proof that this had been done, s/he cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that s/he recorded your accurate speed...

Nice, huh? :D

On LA tickets, they sign claiming they've calibrated the radar.

I met with an Assistant Prosecutor on my ticket - he was a big dickwad - acted like letting me go to traffic school and pleading it to a non-moving was a big deal (they do this anyway- he wasn't doing any favors)

When I told him I thought the officer padded the radar because I KNOW I wasn't going that fast, he said "oh, I grill my officers and I believe them 100%" This was after I'd told him how roughly the officer handled me, how he followed me once I got back on the road, how he practically threatened to arrest me for crying and being unable to sign upon his command. He told me I needed to "separate the offense from the officer's behavior"

Right. SoI'm upposed to believe a guy that acts like this is 100% honest and wouldn't pad the radar to make it so that I was 20 over the limit?

I got a continuance on the ticket and hopefully I can find someone else in that office to help me.