Guaranteed Placement, any thoughts?
 

This was brought up in the UT-Austin thread. I just wanted to hear some thoughts on this.

What if the PNM isn't on any bid list? Does a group have to take the PNM? Seems strange. I am not against it, just wondering if it actually works.

i think it means
 

that they cut big time before pref and only invite to pref those who they want to bid.

If sororities follow the recruitment rules set forth by NPC, they shouldn't be inviting women who they wouldn't want in their chapters to preference parties, and eliminating women who they are absolutely positive they don't want. THAT is the flaw of guaranteed preference and why it won't work at most places.

At our school, if a woman was invited to preference, she HAD to be on your bid list that you handed in. If you didn't have them all on, your bids were not processed until it was complete. Also, you received a $20 fine per hour that it wasn't complete.

Every school I know of who does this cuts big time so they won't have any surprises on Bid Day. However, I can see where this could go wrong if chapters are under pressure to keep people who are, well, not wanted by any group for moral or other reasons. I've heard that there are actually schools who guarantee a bid to anyone who signs up for rush.

Can you hear the chapters fighting over who has to take Suzy Skank on Bid Matching Night? I think I've discussed this before:"OK, we'll trade you a skank for a ditz."

OK, I know I shouldn't laugh, but... :D

This is why I don't think a guaranteed bid to anyone who goes through rush is a good idea. However, I thought that if a chapter invited a girl to Pref, she had to be on their bid lists somewhere, so what's wrong with guaranteeing placement to everyone who Prefs? (Note: These are words from someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of bid-matching...I just know sort of how it works.)

Achtung-
That is how it's supposed to work.... But, unfortunately sometimes people break the rules and end up inviting back more women than they actually intend on bidding. Some houses will do this even in the days UP TO pref - the effects of which mean other houses miss out on having a girl who might be great for their house at their party while she's over at ABC who has no intention to keep her tomorrow. This is why release figures are necessary.

Does anyone think this is good for the system? I would assume those who did not reach quota would be the ones issueing bids to leftover PNMs.

But what about the girls no chapter wanted to bid? LMAO at carnation, but I think it is true. I flinch at the idea of those conversations going on.

OK, so I'd really love to live in a world where every woman was a wonderful PNM - but unfortunately it's true that there are some people who are just not right for the greek system... By this I'm referencing the Rush thread that mentioned the psycho-killer- roommate, and the kitten-killer! Thankfully, these are few and far between and hopefully each house would have enough time to get to know them and their dangerous behavior and cut them VERY EARLY. This is unfortunately another catch to release figure systems that require chapters to invite a certain number (a quota if you will) each day. BUT, when it comes down to Suzy Skank, Debbie Ditz, or (you KNOW this happens) Uma Ugly...... I just don't believe that anyone's bedroom habits, study habits (or the lack thereof) or looks really has THAT much to do with her ability to become a fantastic sister. HONESTLY, it could just be a matter of giving a woman a chance to be around other women who hold themselves to noble standards, appreciate such actions, and encourage others who've made the same committment. (Postitive) peer pressure can be a positive thing. Ok, we should all go read our Creeds/Symphonies now..............

I don't think that this is a bad thing. It doesn't guarantee every woman who goes through Recruitment a bid. It guarantees that if a woman goes through Recruitment, maximizes her returns, and ranks every house she preffed, then she'll get a bid. And isn't this supposed to be how it works?

Doesn't UTA have a pretty lengthy recruitment week? I think that the kitten-killers would be ousted before Pref. I mean, if a girl is really awful, it's possible that she would be released from all houses by the end of second round. And the sororities won't be "screwed" (e.g. stuck with Suzy Slut, Debbie Ditz, et al.) as long as they adhere to release figures and only invite women to Pref that they'd be willing to call "Sister." It seems to me that this system keeps the sororities in check: it makes sure that they play by the rules.

Okay, help me understadn this. Let's say there are a group of girls who were not placed and need to be snap bid. Do all of the representatives from each sorority sit down that same night in the same place and play shuffle the pnms? Do they re-discuss who they want or don't want? Who make the final call that YES, ABC, you MUST take Suzie Duzie even if you don't want her.

Marie

I think that guaranteed placement will stop sororities from inviting PNM they are uncertain about. These PNM can get bids from sororities that really want and need them. The PNMs won't be strung along by sororities that don't really want them and wind up bidless.

I kind of like the idea that PNMs who are invited to pref and who "follow the rules" will get bids. Every year at my school, about 130 bids would be handed out and there were 2 or 3 no-bids... I'd hate to be one of those 2 or 3 girls, being told at prefs how much I'm wanted as a sister, then the next day sitting alone watching 130 fellow PNMs going off happily to their new homes. (I'm leaving the question of suiciding aside for the moment.)

Plus, as a few people have pointed out, it makes it more difficult for a sorority to string along a PNM they don't actually want - leaving her free to go to sororities that are interested in her.

But it could lead to some weird situations, like sororities ending up way over quota. For example, say there are 4 sororities and 40 PNMs at pref -> quota is 10. Now, A and B have 100% retention rates (I know, I know) so they can each only invite 10 to pref. C and D have poorer retention rates, so they can invite say 30 each.

Suddenly, one year, everyone wants to be a C or a D. Out of the 40 PNMs attending pref, 30 are preffing C and D. This is ok because their release figures say they can invite back that many. So, does this mean C and D get to take 15 new members each even though quota is only 10?

actually they sit down on bid day for hours and just trade them, at least that's how it works at my school. it's like, "ok you can have those two if i can have this one..." and so on. it's usually advisors i think who do all the snap bidding. it's kinda hard to hear that, but that's the case. i wasn't a snap bid but i remember being relaly upset when i heard that.

(hijack)--There are plenty of sleazy women I would not want to wear the letters "Pi Beta Phi". Likewise women who'll destroy the chapter gradepoints because they refuse to study. One thing about being around a few years--you learn that positive peer pressure at college age rarely works but you do see a lot of students being dragged down by negative peer pressure from whatever source. Creeds and symphonies notwithstanding, a woman should be worthy of wearing our letters and we shouldn't feel the need to be social workers and drag someone out of the gutter. Thank you!

(unhijack)

The way that guaranteed placement works at UT - Austin is this:

A PNM that "plays by the rules"... she accepts the maximum number of invitations she receives for each event up to the limit for that round AND puts the maximum number of chapters on her preference card up to the number of preference parties she attended... she will be placed with one of those chapters.

It main goal is to keep "cross cutting" to a minimum.

She will not be placed with a group that she did not put on her pref card. Nor will she be placed with a chapter where she was not invited to their preference.

IF she is not matched through the normal bid matching process, she will be hand matched with the smallest group on her pref card.

PROS:
More women are matched!

CONS:
PNMS have learned to play the game... if you don't want to be placed with a group... make sure they release you before preference. More and more PNMs are rude to chapters hoping to be released from them....

Word of advice - don't do it. I know of at least three situations where women attempted this not knowing that membres of their "favorite" chapter were good friends with women of the chapter where they were rude. Competitive or not, the sorority women at UT all have good friends in other chapters... in the three situations I know of - word traveled quickly to the "favorite" chapter and the women were released from not just the chapter where they were rude, but three or four other chapters that got wind of the behavior.

Another con:
Guaranteed placement helps the middle sized chapters - chapters that are usually already at or above total on this campus... and has no benefit at all to the smaller chapters or chapters that don't make quota. One year, one of the mid sized chapters reached quota (51) + Junior Quota (3) + Guaranteed Placements of (9) = 63, while one chapter only matched 28 women.... the larger chapters only pledged 51 + 3 because, remember, guaranteed placed women go to the smallest of the chapters on their pref card.

My opinion is that GP simply widens the gap between chapter sizes. Whether or not that out weighs the benefit of matching more women - I can see it both ways. Luckily all 14 chapters at UT are strong and a few GPs isn't going to make or break anyone at this time. It's been about 5 years since UT lost a chapter but before that the campus averaged losing one chapter every two years or so.

I think AlphaXiGirl summed it up well: this situation will work very well at a school where all chapters are strong. At schools where the chapters are all very different in strength this would probably not be a good idea.

Also, keep in mind that this is a very different system than the one that guarantees placement for ALL rushees -- that system is only in place at one or two schools in the U.S.

What happens if all her choices are of equal size and all made quota? I can see where this would only benefit the larger groups. My personal opinion is that no one should be guaranteed a bid, no matter how well they "played by the rules."

On a campus where the largest chapters are 212+ and the smallest chapter is 80ish, it is unlikely that all of her choices would be exactly the same size - however, if that were to happen I believe she would be given the chapter that she listed highest... I think that would be the tie breaker.

So are you any the wiser on bid day if you were one of the ones at the top, bottom or placed last minute on the list? And would anyone dare to tell you? For snap bidding, could this ever be a house that cut you that snap bids you, or only a house you cut? Curious.

These are the kind of strong feelings that should be voiced EARLY on in the recruitment process and followed through by EARLY cutting. *IF* everyone played by the rules, the system would work.

AlphaXiGirl thanks for explaining that so well. I just didn't get how it works. :)

I had read the website and its definition of GP, so I knew *what* it was, I was hoping for someone with connections to UT (either a student, alum, or advisor) to explain how it works in PRACTICE, not in THEORY. It sounds really good on paper, but I can imagine how PNMs learn how to play the game, so to speak.

I agree that GP increases the divide between chapter size. For example, this past year at Carolina, quota was 60. One chapter only pledged 10 women, another 40, and yet, with GP, girls that preffed larger houses wound up with pledge classes of up to 69! thats 59 more women than the smallest chapter. So the smallest chapter went up to 70 women, whereas the largest went up to over 170! Sororities at USC understand that if we invite a woman to preference, that she could end up on our bid list. We make heavy cuts during the early rounds, but our huge focus is the round before pref.

We at USC have also heard how some of the GLOs would advise the PNMs how to "beat the system." This is another way the larger chapters keep getting larger. I guess the PNMs don't realize they have been victims of dirty rushing until AFTER they are members!

Most schools with GP add the NM's as quota additions which aren't supposed to exceed a specific percentage of quote (most schools use 10% as I believe is recommended by the Greenbook -- but don't have my GB in front of me so don't quote me).

Ther eis a difference b/w Guaranteed Bidding and Guaranteed Placement. Under a Guaranteed Bidding system the chapters must place all women who go through recruitment. There are only a few schools that do this across the country. Creighton University is an example of one.

Guaranteed Placement, as described well above, doesn't really allow the PNMs to mess with the system at all. It is FAIR. If a woman goes through rush and attends all of the parties she is invited to she should be matched to one of the chapters she preferences. If the chapters are carrying too many people at preference and get too large of pledge classes then the greek advisor needs to look at the release figure methodology. The PNMs should not be punished b/c the release figures were not done correctly.

do many schools have problems with chapters not sticking to release figures? i know when i was a collegiate, my school definately did!!! the "top" houses consistantly didn't drop women...as in, everyone was invited back. for second round, you could only attend 3/4 parties, so all of these women would drop the smallest house (mine). the chapters would cut a few women before 3rd party and cut more before pref, but they were no longer receiving invites from us. i know that there are lots of problems with the lack of following NPC rules, but why isn't it more important to all chapters to follow the release figures. it is better for everyone in the long run. is it some kind of ego trip for the larger chapters???

There are schools where following release figures is a big issue. I've worked with several of my chapters on CPH rules that state that chapters cannot invite more PNMs than the GA says, but if they want to go under that number it is their perogative (sp?).

Is it correct then that if you are invited to just one pref party and you attend that one party that you are guaranteed a bid as long as you have attended the maximum number or parties each day?

I would think so, but I'm curious to know how this works in practice.

Lauradav and Pinkyphimu, what is the deal with people not following the rules? I thought that release figures were something that CPH could enforce pretty easily. I mean, how is "You may only invite X% of these women back to your next set" unclear? Are there fines if the chapters exceed the max?

*grumblegrumblebigchapteregotripsgrumblegrumble*

That's my interpretation of it . . . and it sounds like for some girls, who get cut from most of their favorites after the first round, this might even be the desired effect. Let's say that after first round, they're left with one sorority they love and the rest they don't even want to consider . . . if they can get the ones they don't like to drop them, they might end up with ONLY the house they love on Pref night and thus be guaranteed a bid. And the way that they would manage that would be by being really rude to the girls at the houses they don't want.

It has been some time since I participated in bid matching and they were just beginning to implement "quota plus" at that time. The GLO I advised was the smallest and the weakest on that campus at the time and it seemed to me that the system did nothing to help us and everything to make the larger groups keep growing.

It has always been my opinion that recruitment (rush) should be a process where both the PNM's and the sororities mutually "cut" and eventually should reach a point where the PNM has found a "home" where she is wanted. Just because a girl is on the final bid list doesn't mean that she will receive a bid from that group -- she may be the last name on the second list.

While I value my membership, I knew when I began the process that there was a chance I either would not get the group I wanted or even not get a bid at all -- it was a chance I was willing to take! I can only think of one thing worse than not getting a bid and that is being in a group where I was not wanted.

It may sound cruel but everyone will not get a bid and that experience is just one more that will prepare them for the "real world".

The answer is yes. At least at UT.

In practice, I doubt that it's done often because (except in the case where a PNM is "playing the game" and tries to be released from a group that she doesn't want a bid from) in most cases - and I know that I am making some gross generalities here (maybe you guys will give me a little latitude) if a woman was released from all groups but one, it was likely for a reason (eg grades, Jr Class Standing, etc).

Here's where I need some latitude - Generally speaking, a chapter that traditionally makes quota can afford to have higher standards (require a higher GPA, only Freshmen, etc) whereas a chapter that doesn't usually make quota may decide they want to pledge a few Juniors or will take a chance on a woman with a little bit of a lower GPA, etc. The only way that the woman would receive a bid via GP is if that chapter did make quota and she wasn't high enough on their bid list to be placed.... Assuming that history repeats itself and the chapter doesn't meet quota, this woman would get a bid via normal bid matching not by GP.