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Why not? Just because they don't use greek letters?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Their Alpha chapter is at my school and *trust* me, they are just as Greek as the rest of us. They are one of the top three fraternities on my campus. I think that'd be a pretty difficult acheivement if they weren't Greek. :rolleyes:

I second that. We have a Farmhouse chapter here and they are just as much greek as the next organization.

Otherwise, we'd have to say that Arcacia and Triange are not greek either, and as far as I'm concerned, they are.

How did they come up with those names? Obviously the founders of Triangle, Ceres, Farmhouse, and Acacia chose to. It is just the same way your founders came up with your name. There are a million possible reasons why they chose other names, everythign from the fact that they started as a club (like farmhouse) to that they wanted to be different, to they didnt' want to be associated with "Greeks" despite their similar existence, to the fact that their name has a special significance for members...I honestly don't see what the big deal is? Who are you to judge or question?

FarmHouse actually help found Ceres. They both run out of the same national office, and get start a Ceres Chapter you need the recomendation of the local FH chapter (as it was explained to me) Also Ceres chose to follow FH as to not use greek letter but to be named after the Godess of cereal.

If you do a search under greek and roman gods and godesses you can get the whole story about Ceres. Who knew Western Civ class would pay off some day *lol*

Woah! I don't see that they were judging or questioning...they were just curious. I always wondered the same thing.

I really didnt mean to judge I was just intrested

Sorry about that, I had just gotten finished with an arguement with a girl...I think I took a little of my frustration out here on GC...

Lesson to all: don't post angry

You could probably add Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia to that group as well. When originally founded in 1898, we were the simply the Sinfonia Fraternity. (Actually, at the very first we were the Sinfonia Club, but it soon became the Sinfonia Fraternity). Originally, our badge was a black triangle with a gold Old English "S".

The letters Phi, Mu, and Alpha began to figure in Fraternity writings and symbolism by 1902. The letters were unofficially added to the badge by some chapters soon after. In 1909 or 1910, the addition of the letters to badge became official. The "alternate" name, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, came into use early on, but the change was not made official until the 1940's. We still call the Fraternity either by its full name, by the name Phi Mu Alpha, or by the simple name Sinfonia. Brothers are called Sinfonians, not "Phi Mu Alphas."

There is a historical/academic reason why Greek letters may not have been used by some of these groups, at least not a first. The earliest fraternities (and sororities) were born in liberal arts institutions, where Greek and the classics were a standard part of the curriculum. It was natural, therefore, for GLO founders to turn to them for inspiration.

Groups like Triangle and FarmHouse, however, took root in technical and argricultural institutioins, where Greek was not a standard part of the curriculum. Similarly, Phi Mu Alpha was born in a conservatory -- our first four chapters were all in conservatories -- where Greek was not taught. Some of these groups never "latched on" to Greek, while others (like Phi Mu Alpha) apparently adopted Greek letters in imitation of already-existing GLOs.

Hope this makes some sense.

Farmhouse on my campus is an excellent chapter- and they are very much greek.
I was lavaliered FH during my time and spent quite a bit of time with them.
If they aren't greeks how are they a part of the NIC?

LMAO! I'm sorry, but "Goddess of cereal" just has me cracking up and I have to post the correct info. Ceres, which is the Roman name for the Greek goddess Demeter, is the goddess of agriculture. The word "cereal" was derived from the word "Ceres," though.


http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/demeter.html

lmao. thank you for clearing that up. i was going to fix that if no one else had.

Well, in Allie's defense, remember that the primary meaning of "cereal" is any plant that yields an edible grain, such as wheat, rye, corn, oats, spelt, mullet, rice, etc. The secondary definition is the grain itself. A preparation of that grain -- such as oatmeal or Cap'n Crunch -- while perhaps the first thing we think of when we hear the word, is a tertiarary definition. If the primary definition is applied, goddess of cereal is not that far from goddess of agriculture.

That said, "the Goddess of Cereal" does have a certain ring to it.

OK, I've seen Acacia wearing shirts that say AKAK, but what do Farmhouse, Triangle and Ceres have on their shirts? Are there any Greek letters at all or do they just spell it out?

At my school, Farmhouse uses FH on their jerseys, and Ceres just spells it out.

Triangle, from what I've seen uses a "T" inside a triangle and the lines of the triangle are also tangent to the endpoints on the bars of the "T". Triangle was also written above that. That's the way I've seen it on a shirt before, could be different in different places.

Mystic Cat: well said and completely correct, as usual.

Farm House is NOT greek. That's not an insult and not intended to take anything away from a fine group. It is merely fact.

Acacia can be considered greek because their name is a greek word. But as far as I know, Farm House does not use any greek nomenclature.

At my school, the Rugby team functioned in exactly the same way as a fraternity, and interacted with the greeks on campus exactly as another fraternity would. That doesn't make them greek.

Only Greek makes you greek.

wptw

But, the fact that they are not greek becuase they don't use Greek does not mean they are not a fraternity. On campuses they must join the governing body you have set up.

Saying they're not greek because of not using greek is like someone who is a member of a general fraternity or sorority saying that TBS, and KKPsi(purely as examples of honoraries and service orgs) aren't really greek becuase they are honorary and service orgs and not general orgs. Why goes GREEK chat give them their own message boards if they're not greek?

I see Farmhouse, Triangle, Acacia, and Ceres are just as "greek" as I am, just cause Phi Sigma Kappa uses greek in our name doesn't mean we're any more of a Fraternity than Farmhouse FRATERNITY or Triangle FRATERNITY. Really what would you call them then if you say they're not greek. Great groups, nice organizations? It's the same thing as saying we've worked so hard to build this community and work together and you helped out alot but since you don't have greek letters you're not really greek and this is the greek community. Who cares if they don't use greek letters or nomenclature? They have everything else in common with the rest of us excet that. They have rituals, secrets, a brotherhood, national HQ, etc. I'm sorry but that seems a little shallow to me that you say they're not greek cause they don't use Greek. Aren't FH and Triangle members of NIC? They were at UIFI and that is a greek institute. I didn't see a rugby team send anyone to it. I even remember an NIC VP saying that all the undergrads there were greek, this included the Triangle members there.

I mean if just having greek letters makes you greek than a guy I know who has formed a groups with his friends as a joke and uses delta alpha nu kappa(DANK) as their letters and got shirts made up are greek, but FH and Triangle aren't?

Hell, if you think about it, none of us are really greek. How can we claim to be greek, yeah we use their letters, nomenclature, and a few symbols here or there, but, how many of us really have ancestry from Greece? We're just piggy backing off of their culture, alphabet, language, but we're NOT greek.

*edited to reword and try to clarify*

Sorry, but your analogy to service and honorary orgs is flawed. The discrimination you described would be purely subjective and not based on any historical premise. By contrast, there was a very specific (and very obvious) historical reason for calling certain fraternities and sororites greek lettered organizations.

In any case, I never said that not being greek = not being a fraternity.

Being a "fraternity" and being "greek" are not necessarily the same thing. The latter is a subset of the former. And one is not necessarily better than the other.

Farm House is very much a fraternity. But they are NOT greek.

GLOs are called GLOs for a reason. That designation is no less valid simply because we've become somewhat loose with our categories and somewhat imprecise with our speech and our reasoning.

wptw

I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that wptw is trying to say that FarmHouse and Triangle are not "Greek" in the sense that they do not use Greek letters (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc...). They are still fraternal organizations, which is they they belong to NIC, PFA, or whatever it is they belong to.

I think the confusion results because you "Go Greek" not "Go Fraternal Organization." Saying they are not Greek does not diminish their status as great fraternal organizations, they just aren't greek in the sense that Ceres, Acacia, Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Kappa Gamma... are because they do not have Greek letters or words.

On another tangent - the FarmHouse men I know either wore letters that had FarmHouse spelled out or "FH." The Triangles wear the T inside of a triangle, a plain T, or the word "Triangle." CERES always wore "CERES" spelled out, and I do not have the pleasure of knowing any Acacia's. I don't really think that's weird - how many times have you seen shirts that said "SigEp" or "Kappa" or "Theta" or "Delt", etc?

Yes, GeekyPenguin, that's exactly what I'm saying.

PSK, you’ve made a lot of changes with those edits, so I’ll just add this…

Why are you reading judgment or discrimination or some sort of superiority thing into my argument? This is purely a discussion of semantics.

If it makes a difference, for the record I consider Farm House to be every bit as much of a fraternity as my own. And I would even say I consider them every bit as much a part of the greek community as my own fraternity. But strictly speaking, it is incorrect to refer to them a “greek organization” when for nearly 200 years, “greek organization” has meant an organization that defines itself by the use of greek letters. Ask the Farm House HQ how they characterize themselves and I’ll bet you get a nearly identical response.

By the way, a more appropriate parallel would be the humble hamburger. If you make it with ground chicken or with spam or with tofu, is it still a hamburger?

wptw

EDIT: I also consider Ceres non-greek since they opted against the greek name Demeter and went with the Roman equivalent Ceres.

These Organizations were started as a base of what they were founded for.

Farmhouse-Agricultuer ergo Ceres

Triangle-Engineering

Acacia, I am not sure.

But, they all evolved into a Social Fraternity/Sority system who rush those out side of the feilds of study for which they were founded upon. Not having Greek Letters, make them no less Greek Orgs. but without Greek Letters.

The Original Greek Orgs were founded for the same reason but using Greek Letters and the early ones were founded following the Masonic teachings. And everything came to past from there.
Of the Service, music, etc have Greek Leter Names, they are not Greek Social Orgs but using the letters.

So while they are Greek Letter Orgs. so are FH Triangle, Acacia!

That saying why are Greeks with 2 letters better than those with 3.

I *heart* Tom Earp! Well said :cool:

Have to agree with WPTW on this one.

Saying that these orgs aren't Greek doesn't mean that they're not fraternities, or that they're not secret brotherhoods. Saying that they're non-Greek doesn't devalue them at all.

I have no less respect for people in these organizations than I do for people in Greek-letter societies. I don't think anyone else does either.

I would call them fraternities, just not Greek letter ones.

The end.

Amen to that!!! Dang! lol :p

"Acacia" is a greek word, thus in a sense, they are Greek. Even more "greek-er" than the rest of us, because they are using Greek word instead of Greek letters.

My .02 cents ;)

I agree so much, I went back in time and said it yesterday...

I wonder why so much defensiveness followed a simple empirical observation. Not to get too Carrie Bradshaw on you, but: Is there a “war of legitimacy” going on in the fraternity and sorority world?

wptw

wptw, could you speak a little more in Earp Spake!

Your wording is to fancy for me to comprehend!:D

Does the Social part have anything to Being a Greek Social Org?:confused:

Okay, I'll disagree just a little. Acacia (it's a kind of tree, in case anyone is wondering) is an Latin derivative of a Greek word: akakia (akakia). The Latin version came straight into English, and is pronounced uh-KAY-shuh, as opposed to the Greek ah-KAH-kee-ah. So acacia is a Latin/English word, not a Greek one. Minor quibble, but what the hey.

I'll throw my hat in with wptw, KSigkid and others: "Greek" is short-hand for Greek-letter organization/fraternity/sorority; it is also a name for a member of a Greek-letter organization/fraternity/sorority. Without Greek letters, an organization is not a Greek-letter organization. It certainly may be (and in the case of FH, Acacia, Triangle, Ceres, etc., is) a true fraternity or sorority, it just isn't a Greek-letter fraternity or sorority. No disrespect intended in the least.

That said, there are loose, slang uses: When someone says "Go Greek," I think we can all assume that they mean "join a fraternity or sorority," regardless of whether it has Greek letters in the name. So, I imagine most of us would consider joining FH or Triangle as "going Greek."

And for Tom Earp, Acacia was an outgrowth of the University of Michigan Masonic Club. Originally, membership was restricted to Master Masons, and the fraternity still has a strong Masonic connection.

Well said, my friend in music... (I knew there was a reason I liked Sinfonias...they're so eloqent)

Ok, question for you then, When you have events like "Greek Week", homecoming do you invite Farmhouse and Triangle and the like to participate? Do they sit on the council with voice and vote like the rest of you?

What I was trying to say was simplified by Tom when he said

I agree they aren't greek in the sense that they don't use greek letters but they should be made just as much a part of your greek community on campus as the orgs that use greek letters.

No one's denying that they should be a part of Greek Week...or that they are part of the Fraternity (which happens to be mostly Greek) community... It's just that they themselves are not Greek Letter Orgs.

Maybe we should be more PC and change "Greek Week" to "Fraternity Week"...would that suit you more?

PSK, for Pete’s sake…

We use the word “greek” as a modern day colloquialism to describe the very broad community of fraternities and sororities. Yes, this includes non greek lettered fraternities. Yes, OBVIOUSLY you still invite Farm House to greek week.

But technically speaking… I’m talking JUST about the semantics here… OK? In the traditional convention started sometime in the 1800s of calling members of greek lettered fraternities “greeks” because of the greek nomenclature they used, Farm House simply does not qualify.

Likewise, many of you call any old facial tissue a Kleenex. No one is going to correct you because it’s become generally accepted. But technically, not every tissue is a Kleenex.

I don’t know how to make the point any clearer. I’m arguing language and you’re arguing application.

Now, as for Tom, you see…if what I wrote doesn’t make any sense, then it IS Earp-speak! Ha, PSK used a phrase I never expected to see in my lifetime: “what I was trying to say was simplified by Tom ”. ;)

wptw

I was thinking the same thing...I about died of a heart attack/laughter when I read that!

In honor of my agriculturally minded friends at the non-greek-lettered Farm House fraternity…

Why is a cantaloupe not considered a watermelon? :confused:

They’re both melons. They both grow from a seed you plant in the ground. They both sprout, grow vines and leaves, blossom, and produce fruit with a hard rind, sweet flesh and seeds inside. They’re both round. They’re in the same area in the produce section of the grocery store. They’re both extremely tasty and they can both be carved into fancy shapes for company picnics and family reunions and the like.

So never mind that early on in their history they were given completely different names based on slight differences in their outward appearance. Never mind that words actually have specific meanings attached to them. I guess cantaloupes and watermelons are the same thing!

And no one had better come along and try to say “a cantaloupe is not a watermelon”, because then you’ll offend all sorts of people who think you’re somehow trying to put down the poor cantaloupe by saying it’s not a watermelon!

wptw

Very cute and well said, wptw

I am, and since i am, i consider myself the expert on all Hellenic things.

FH, Acacia, Triangle, Ceres= NON Greek (esp. not ceres, using a roman name :rolleyes: )

GLO's with 2 letters are definately superior to those with 3. (3 letters is only filler)

Stop piggy backing off my culture, you hosers!

Kitsopoulos
KS 361 times people have said to me, wow, your last name is just like Uncle Jesse on Full House, are you related? :rolleyes: