Order of the Phoenix Spoiler Thread
 

WARNING: This is where the people who already read Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix can discuss what they thought about the specific events in the book. If you haven't read it yet and you don't want to know what happens, don't read any further. If you do, don't complain about it because you were adequately warned. ;)

I liked it a lot--but dang, Harry is angry. Rightfully so, but if I were an author, I wouldn't put so much of it in a book-- it gives the reader a negative mood.

Sirius' death is kinda glossed over...I didn't want anything descriptive but I was thinking, "Huh? Did he die?"

Geez, I don't know where to start. A lot of stuff happened in that 870 pages.

The biggest shock in the story was, of course, the death. We all knew it was coming, but I definitely was still surprised who it was. I really thought for most of the time that it would be Hagrid or possibly Dumbledore, although Dumbledore isn't really a logical choice because he has to be around to explain things to Harry. Thinking back, there were definitely signs that it would be Sirius, especially when Harry was leaving to go back to school and he kept wanting to say something to him but wasn't able to. This is defintiely something that will affect Harry deeply in the next 2 books. ETA: I just saw carnation's post, and yes, it was glossed over a bit. But I think JKR wanted the reader to react the same way that Harry did; he thought that maybe it didn't really happen at first, and it took awhile to sink in (and at the end, I don't think it had really fully hit him yet).

Speaking of death, one thing that kept bothering me was that Harry was not able to see the thestrals until now. Shouldn't he have been able to see them the whole time because he witnessed his parents' deaths as a baby? Or do you have to be conscious of and able to comprehend the death in order to see them? hmmm...

I enjoyed the Cho storyline. I think it's about time Harry got together with someone, and it helped keep the mood a little bit lighter at times. The reactions of Harry, Ron, and Hermione were hysterical after the kiss, especially Harry's horror when he thought that it was possible that Cho was crying because he was so bad, LOL. JKR did a great job of capturing all of the adolescent reactions and emotions. Cho gets around, though, doesn't she? :p It's hard to say if Harry will end up with Ginny or Hermione, but I think it will probably be Ginny, especially if Ron has anything to do with it. I think the line where Harry compared Ron and Hermione's interaction with Mr. & Mrs. Weasely may be a bit of foreshadowing.

Neville certainly showed why he's in Gryffindor in this book. It was nice to see him finally succeeding at something. It was also nice to see a little more character development with him when they showed him with his parents at St. Mungo's. The twist at the end, where it could have been either him or Harry that could defeat Voldemort, was very interesting. I think that Neville will figure prominently in the final battle.

Dumbledore's final speech to Harry was very touching, and I think it's exactly what he needed, even if he doesn't want to listen right now. Anyone who thought that Dumbledore was possibly going to turn evil has been proven wrong. I don't see him surviving at the end of all of this, though.

I think that's all for right now. I'm going to go back and reread the book a little more slowly. I hope that book 6 comes out a little more quickly than this one did!

As unpleasant as Snape is,I was sad that he was treated so badly by James(Harry's Dad) and his friends.Nobody deserves that.I was glad that Harry's mom stood up for him.
I have to agree that Cho sure gets around.I think it will be Ginny that Harry gets together with.Hermione will eventually get together with Ron.I almost said hookup but that is maybe a tad too strong a phrase.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DWAlphaGam

Speaking of death, one thing that kept bothering me was that Harry was not able to see the thestrals until now. Shouldn't he have been able to see them the whole time because he witnessed his parents' deaths as a baby? Or do you have to be conscious of and able to comprehend the death in order to see them? hmmm...


Because he didn't really see death until Cedric died.

I was so depressed after Sirius died. Unfortunately, I think it had to happen to enable Harry to kill Voldemort.

I also felt bad for Snape.

So what questions do we still not know the answers to?

I want to find out how Harry and the gang did on their O.W.L.s :)

I really liked the book! The beginning was a little slow but I could definitely understand why Harry was so angry. I also think JKR handled Sirius' death wonderfully. My jaw personally hit the ground as well as I cried (Sirius is my favority character. . . . ). I think that Harry is going to get with Luna - though Ginny is definitely in the top three ;)

I also interested to see how Snape and Harry resolve their issues. . . .

Sarah
going back to read it again slower. . .

whoa! 870 pages?? Didn't that book just come out like a day ago? and people are already done reading it?! wow!

I never got into the HP series.. but I think it's cool how people are so intruiged by it that they read all 870 pages in like a day! :eek:

i cried when mr weasley was hurt because i really thought that he was giong to be the one to die after harry's dream that wasn't really a dream. sirius's death really didn't affect me as much as mcgonagall being hurt or mr weasley getting hurt, i think it was becasue i had seen how he was kinda mean to snape when they were in school and everything.
i was so proud of neville in this book! i've always liked him, he's just a sweet honest guy and he really showed his true colors in the way he worked so hard to master the new DADA spells he was learning.
anyone else confused about what dumbledore was telling harry at the end? i thought he would tell him a little bit moer than he did AND i was trying to figure out what dumbledore meant by saying that his relationship with harry was more than that of headmaster/teacher to student. did i miss something in the book?
what was with aunt petunia knowing more about the wizarding world than she showed before? i'm beginning to think she knows a lot more than she lets on.
this thread is such a relief. i don't know anyone else besides GCers who have finished this book!

I thought that the concept of death as being just on the other side of the curtain was great.

I think that the relationship was more than just headmaster/student because of everything that Harry has gone through. He cares for Harry more than most other student - especially since he knows the entire profecy. Because of the profecy (and D knowing only how much V knows of it. . . ), D knows that Harry has to be protected because if Harry dies then V will not be able to be killed. . . .

I think she knows more because of the letter D left with Harry when they dropped him off. I am curious to know what exactly what was in that letter. . . I'm also sure that P knew more from Lily than she lets others know (out of jealousy?). I'm also going to hazard a guess that Lily isn't completely muggleborn (an grandparent, great-grandparent, aunt, uncle, possibly even a parent. . . ).

I also wanted to add to my previous likes (cuz I just realized it!) about of the D.A. members are actually helping to fulfill the Sorting Hat's request for everyone to join together to fight V. :)

I'm all for a more indepth discussion of the book as I too don't know all that many people around here who are into HP (other than my dad, but I'm not loaning him my book until I read it another 2-3 times!)

Sarah

I was so upset that Sirius died. Actually, I think I would rather have it be Hagrid. It's just like...how much more can you put Harry through?!

I was a little surprised by Harry's anger. It's understandable, but shocking. I was also a little pissed at Dumbledore...I think it's the first time he seemed a little weak, and that's scary to me. I'm still a little confused about the ghost thing and the "fight" sequence in the Department of Mysteries...but I guess I'll go back and read more carefully.

I was so sad when Sirius died! My favorite character... Won't Harry ever get true family? It was sweet when the Order of the Phoenix people met Harry at the train station, though, acting like a little surrogate family.
Unfortunately I had forewarning about who would die...CNN had a little news segment on Saturday morning, and something was said about the character who dies having been introduced in the third book. I was thinking, dangit! You just revealed who's going to die for everyone quick enough to pick up on that!
I was intrigued by the idea of death being just beyond the veil, too...I'd like to know more about what that archway is and what purpose it serves.

I just finished this morning.

Three words: I LOVE DUMBLEDORE.

The death: I had read online that somebody was going to die and that it was going to be a hard scene for J.K. Rowling to write. So naturally, any time that anyone was in danger, I started freaking out: "Oh no! Mrs. Weasley is going to die! Mr. Weasley is going to die! Neville is going to die! Dumbledore is going to die! McGonagall is going to die!" When Sirius was the one that ended up dying, I was pretty unaffected. I've never really liked Sirius all that much, and he was especially obnoxious in this book, so I was a little disappointed . . . I wanted a death that I could start bawling at.

I really like how Ginny has turned into a little vixen with all her boyfriends ;) although I have to admit, I would like to see her and Harry together at the end of the series. I think this book was a push for us to see Ginny as more grown-up and not just as "Ron's little sister" anymore.

Ditto on the thestrals -- why couldn't Harry see them before? I suppose you have to really witness death and internalize it, not just see it . . . but it would have been nice if Rowling had covered that. Also ditto on Neville . . . I liked how the prophecy could mean either him or Harry, and I agree that he'll probably feature heavily in the final battle.

Kreacher freaked me out! :eek:

Two things I didn't see coming AT ALL: Ron being a prefect instead of Harry, and the fact that Harry's dad was a little bit of a jerk (at least at age 15).

I liked the Dumbledore vs. Voldemort scene at the end, but I thought the battle scenes as a whole dragged on too long and the end was somewhat anticlimactic -- especially after the battle scenes in Goblet of Fire, which freaked me out to no end after I read them the first time.

As a whole I was a little disappointed by the book. :( I thought the set-up was great -- with the dementors attacked Harry and Dudley, the Dursleys having to come to grips with the magical world, and the whole Order of the Phoenix thing . . . but the rest of it left something to be desired. I think Rowling is starting to suffer from "Anne Rice syndome," where as her books have gotten overwhelmingly popular, her editors are afraid to edit her anymore because they figure she knows what she's doing. I don't think that this book was as "tight" as the first three. I do love how each book has gotten progressively darker, though, and am looking forward to the next book to really start getting into the whole "Voldemort is back" thing.

I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff I forgot to mention, so I'm sure I'll be back to this thread multiple times. :)

Just another note that I wanted to add (I can't wait until Leanne gets online so I can discuss with her!): Tonks rocks!!! :) Since Sirius will not be around for the rest of the series, I'll definitely be following Tonks and all she does (mind you, my heart will still pine for Sirius. . . .). I can imagine the look of horror on the Dursley's faces if she shows up at their house during the summer (well, and also at Kings Crossing. . . ). :D

Sarah

i'm rereading it now and i just noticed something....anyone else's book more "british english" than the others? mine says things like jumper instead of sweater and stuff like that....it's kinda cool but all my other harry potter books has the more americanized version of english.

I noticed it too. . . skiving rather than skipping. . . .Maybe I won't be buying the British paperback version in a year or so like I did with the others. . . .

I do like the British covers better :)

Sarah

Whoohoo! I'm finished, so I just got my first look at this thread.

I noticed the whole British English thing too. Did you confirm it against the other books, or not? I've been meaning to look, to make sure I wasn't imagining it, but haven't gotten that far yet.

I'm dying to see what Harry got on his OWLS. I'm sure hoping they adjust the scoring on the Astronomy exam to account for the disturbance on the Hogwarts lawn!

Frankly, I'm thankful the death wasn't Lupin. My little sister and I both noticed that it was kinda glossed over, and both did double takes when he died.

I'm hoping that Harry and Snape will end up coming to more of an understanding in the next book. I seriously doubt that they will ever really like each other, but hope that considering what Harry saw in the Pensieve they can eventually at least gain a bit of respect for each other.

I know for certain that the other four books are more 'Americanized' than OotP. I own both the American and British versions and there is a noticible difference in the verbage.

I too am glad that Lupin didn't die (I confess, I did look at the last page to see if any of the theories were correct that were out there. . . ). I am sad that Sirius was murdered because I really liked him but I'm sure that he will play a role in the other books in some way. I also like the explanation as to why Sirius would not be coming back as a ghost. . . I'm also interested to see who is going to be Harry's legal guardian.

A good number of questions answered, but many points left unanswered. :) I just hope that we don't have to wait ANOTHER three years for book 6!

Sarah

me too. i was wishing the whole end of the book that harry would somehow get to sit down with snape and explain to him how he felt when he saw snape's memory in the pensieve. i think harry gained a lot of respect for him at that point.
i was really hoping we would find out what they all got on their OWLS too. for some reason i think that harry probably got the outstanding level on DADA and Potions, at least he seemed like he felt really comfortable with both of them, AND it would make sense because i think he really will end up being an auror. it kills me that we'll have to wait to find out. i'm so glad she's already started wrting the 6th book.

The only truly annoying thing was the books brevity. And I am not being sarcastic. I started it last night at 9 and finished it up after work this afternoon.

So a years wait for me, for a few measley hours of gratification. *sigh*

I just saw the movie "Alex and Emma" and it would be kind of cool if JKR had that kind of motivation to finish the new book in a month lol.

I noticed this too, and thought it was cool. I think the fourth book contained some British words and phrases instead of American words (more than the first three) but the difference between the fourth and fifth books was pretty big.

My guess (well, to be accurate, hope) is that the reason that this book took so long to write is that Rowling was also working on Books 6 and 7 to make sure everything matched up (she's a notorious planner and note-maker), so hopefully parts of Book 6 are already written and we won't have to wait three years for it.

Just finished the book and reading the posts in this thread.

All in all, a great Potter book. Just one note: We will most likely have to wait three years for the next book just because JKR likes the press she has gotten from the last two books and how the wait increases our love for the series and anxiousness to read the next one - after all, the first printing contained 8.5million copies in the U.S. alone, and has already sold over 50 million if I've read the news correctly....

...without a serious part of the book being revealed beforehand....

I was the same when Black died when they said the he died, I was like, he fell thru a door! what!


also I think if Ron could help it Harry and Ginny would be together, and I am more positive about Ron and Hermoine, the way they fight and then when Ron found out she was writing to Viktor! he was mad, but then she said "penpal" and the helped!

at the beging i though that Luna had a crush on Harry, but then she was acting funny about Ron, so I don't really know!

Oh! I love what Fred and George did!

But what happened to Percy? did he rejoin his family, i don't remember him at the end.


Christia

i don't know about that....i htink it will be sooner. she said that the 6th book will be much shorter than both the 4th and the 5th so i think chances are that it will be earlier rather than later. she's still going to get all the people wanting to buy the 6th book no matter what. i'll be buying it the day it comes out if i don't preorder again at least.

Christia~i was thinking the same thing about Ron wanting Ginny and Harry together!

Part of the reason for the LONG delay between books is because JKR got married and had a baby. You figure that took 2 years out of the picture. :) I woud hazard a guess that it will only be about a year and a half before the next book comes out. . . . (though I would prefer only a year wait. . . .)

Sarah

This post is going to be entirely speculation about the last two books, so if you don't want to read that, skip it.



The more I think about it, the stranger the prophecy is. At first when I read it, I had that "So what?" feeling that so many people did. I mean, of course Harry and Voldemort are connected, and of course one is going to have to kill the other. Haven't we understood that from the second or third book onward? Really, the only unique thing about the prophecy was the fact that it could have also possibly included Neville . . . and J.K. Rowling closes that possibility off by saying "But of course it's you, Harry, because of your scar."

From a completely literary standpoint, there's no reason why she should bring up that point just to immediately dismiss it. What she's doing is opening up the possibility of Neville being the subject of the prophecy while, at the same time, leading the readers to think that there's no way it could be Neville. And for those of us who have read the books, I think we've realized that a lot of things that happen that seem strange at the time later turn out to have some deeper meaning.

In short, I'm pretty sure that something is going to happen that re-opens the possibility of Neville being the subject of that prophecy. Otherwise there was no point to the fact that Rowling brought it up in the first place.

that's a good point, especially since Neville really proved his own in this book. neville is giong to become a huge character i think, his role has grown a lot since he was inroduced.

I finished the book on Sunday morning, and while I liked it, I think listening to all the media hype made me expect a little more. The "horrible to write about" death was, as other GCers have said, anticlimactic, as was Dumbledore's explanation for why Harry and Voldemort are connected. It was certainly logical, but it wasn't the huge "ah-ha!" that the media promised. I'll probably re-read the book sometime soon. JK puts so many subleties in her writing that I catch a new detail or nuance with every read.

Did anybody understand that bit about Stubby Boardman?I didn't find out where it said that he was or wasn't the real Sirius.

This book was pretty good, but not as good I think as number 4. I lost a lot of respect for Harry in this book, he was being such a jerk though the whole thing, always snapping at everybody and wallowing in his own pity party. But I gained lots of respect for Neville and even some for Snape. I need to reread the book, there were so many plot lines that I need to try and sort them again with a second read.

Did anyone notice how Dudley had beaten up someone named Mark Evans in the beginning? Lily's (Harry's mother) maiden name was Evans. Perhaps that's a sign that Harry has more family hiding around somewhere...I don't think that JKR would throw that in without meaning something by it (I know Evans is a pretty popular name, but still).

I think that Dumbledore may be related to Harry in some way; maybe he is Lily's uncle or something. If Lily came from a wizarding family, even if it skipped a couple of generations, that may explain why Aunt Petunia was acting so strangely and knows more than she lets on. It could also explain the "ancient magic" and how she understood why she needed to take Harry in as a baby and keep him there no matter what.

Someone said they were glad that Lupin didn't die, and I have to agree with that. I liked Sirius and the idea that Harry had someone who cared about him like family, but he was kind of a bad influence on Harry. I think that Lupin could easily fill in the spot that Sirius left, since he was also very close with Harry's parents.

I think the fact that Harry was so angry all the time was just J.K. Rowling's portrayal of teenage angst. I don't think there were any of us that weren't just as bratty as him at age 16.

Plus, you have to admit that with all the stress he's under, you'd be a little moody too. :p

I noticed that too! And I agree with you . . . when Rowling does stuff like that, it's not accidental. She could have come up with a hundred other names. If she used "Evans," there's a reason for it. And notice how Mark is ten, which means he'll be eleven next year . . . coincidentally the same age as Hogwarts' first years? I wouldn't be surprised if we see Mark Evans at Hogwarts next year.

i noticed it too but forgot about it...rowling almost never doubles names. i don't think she's done it yet at least. that's a really good theory!

I just finished reading the book!

I have to day I feel a bit disappointed, i think, hard to tell what this feeling is. I don't have expectations for the author - I'm happy to read whatever is written - but I still have this "wanting more" feeling, but not for the next book...like i missed something in this one...

Perhaps it is because i expected to cry at the death and I didn't. It just went by so fast, I didn't really feel sad. Only slightly in Dunbledore's office did i get sad, and then not as bad as when Cedric was murdered!
I even got weapy at the beginning of the book when Molly was battling the Boggart - i'm not a mother but for some reason that touched me.


I guess I might be slightly disappointed too that the ron/hermione ship has not been expanded...maybe I was hoping they'd get together...


But don't get me wrong...I did enjoy the book!! It's great how the book is so dark and serious yet there are great moments of humour! where would we be without Fred and George!?! (it looks like Molly may have forgiven them for leaving Hogwarts since they were at the station...)

I'm going to miss Sirius though. I always pictured Harry leaving Hogwarts one day to live with him. It's sad to think he's all alone again....

Bye bye Snuffles :(

Hehehe, I love that Flitwick left part of their swamp to remember them by.

BTW, whoever asked about Percy-I don't remember him being mentioned at the end. I would imagine that he's still sticking by Fudge and that he will probably try to help the Ministry over the Order, even though Fudge knows now about Voldemort's return.

uh.. what everyone else said :) I wasn't that distraught over Sirius... I never really got attached to him, mostly because all throughout book 3 I had a hard time keeping him and Snape straight (darn those similar names). I was devestated when i thought it was going to be McGonagall who died, she's my favourite Hogwarts teacher

Okay, throwing something out into the wild here.... I still don't trust Snape. Even though he's done a lot to prove himself... I just still don't trust him. I feel like he's working under the surface as a double agent or something... you know, doing things for Dumbledore and the OotP to keep his place and not look suspicious, but I think he's still working for Voldemort.

For example... Harry's Occlumency lessons. It seemed like the more he worked with Snape, the more open his mind was to Voldemort... and on the nights when he had too many other things on his mind (exams, etc.) were the nights when he had normal dreams, when Snape was telling him to keep his mind clear.

I could be totally wrong, but I think in the end we'll see that the feelings of suspicion Harry, Ron, and the gang have been having about Snape will be right....

Sirius's death: I wouldn't have predicted it, but I understand it. I'm upset that we may never know why he laughed when the Law Enforcement wizards came to take him to Azkaban. I liked the glimpse into the Marauder era, but am also convinced that there's a lot more to the MWPP dynamic than was seen through Snape's memory. And speaking of Snape: Now that we know that Lucius Malfoy is a MWPP-era contemporary, does anyone else wonder how well they know each other? Of course they DO know each other, but what's their relationship like?

Remus and Sirius: My lord. You two are subtext on a stick.

Harry: Well, it's about goddamn time you started showing some emotion there. It's a miracle you didn't crack three books ago. I'm interested to see how he's going to accept his fate that he must either kill or be killed.

Hermione: You annoy me. You are now too perfect for my liking. You have gained too much emotional wisdom and I want to see you slip up.

Ron: The perfume was the right idea. Poor you. You have the world's biggest crush on Hermione and she's mostly clueless, I think. I'm so glad you were made prefect and Quidditch keeper. It's about time you started getting some glory of your own. I really think you're going to be the one to save Harry's ass in the end, and he'd better appreciate it.

Draco: I love what Rowling's done with you. You are a nasty, slimy, though mostly absent, git. I don't know why everyone thinks you're going to be redeemed.

Percy: I knew it. You did not disappoint my predictions. Let's see if you complete the KappaStargirl prophecy and join the Death Eaters in the end.

The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black: Probably one of the most interesting chapters in any HP book, as it gave so much to the storyline. Fascinating to see all the relationships between the characters.

I cried over Sirius. He & Lupin have always been my favorites. But I knew even before the book came out that it had to be Sirius to die. Nothing else would give Harry enough rage to propel him through the rest of the story arch.

I want to march right down to the dungeons and give old Severus Snape a huge kick in the behind for terminating Harry's Occlumency lessons and just for being a lousy teacher in general. When Lupin taught Harry how to do the Patronus Charm, he explained the ideas behind it and helped him clear his mind of the bad throughts. Occlumency is by far more advanced magic, yet Snape just went full steam ahead and invaded the boy's brain. I'm sure that if Lupin or Dumbledore or someone Harry trusted had been teaching him, then Harry would have felt comfortable mentioning that the dreams were just getting worse as the lessons progressed.

Secondly, I wonder what Snape's motives were in placing that particular memory in his Pensieve. Of course he didn't want Harry to see it, but why? Is it because he didn't want Harry to see his dirty underwear, or could it be that he didn't want Harry to see what a jerk James was. Interesting...

Here's hoping that Lupin steps in to Sirius' role as Harry's godfather.

I am highly curious to know what Dudley Dursley heard when the Dementors were present.

I also agree with KappaStarGirl that Percy will go Death Eater. It'd be awesome if Ron has to/gets to take him out.

I'm curious about the veil. It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore walks through it at the end of the series. I mean, talk about a man whose life's work is over. He'd have no choice but to leave, kind of like how Gandalf has to go to Valinar at the end of The Lord of the Rings-- his time has ended. Remember, "To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

Finally, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Neville Longbottom-- most of my fics revolve around him-- and I have a feeling that the caveat in the prophecy, that it could have been either him or Harry, will come through in the end and that Neville will be instrumental in Harry's killing Voldemort.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Harry will kill Voldemort, but die in the process.

I was thinking of the same thing. There is something about that veil that I think is going to turn out to be very important.
Between that and the fact of Harry being so angry, it seemed to me that the more I read this book, the more I thought about Star Wars(and its books) and The Lord of the Ring(and its books). I often felt like I had read this book previously...maybe I'm just a Seer, lol.

The thing that stuck me the most was the prophecy...there has to be another reason why she mentioned it. Although Harry is the marked one, I think that Neville will also have a big role in Voldemort's down fall. I also believe that Harry will defeat Voldemort but die in the process...there has to be some finality to the series, or else it has the potential to go on forever, and go downhill.