Looking back on Greek years
 

I know this being a greek website and all, most of the answers to my question will strongly be one sided. However, for those of you who are now out of the college enviroment, do you look back and think sometimes how stupid it was being greek? I've come to realize that outside of college no one really gives a rats ass if your greek or not. In fact, many people look at it as a crutch or an excuse in case they screw up in college. I'm by no means downing the greek system, but rather was curious as to how some of you look back on your youthful days.

I think being in a frat was extremely fun and gave me future buisness contacts as well as life long friends. However, I do realize that had I not been in such an organization I probably wouldn't have done some of the stupid shit I did. The greek system I was apart of was big, unlike many of the small greek systems in the US. I was talking to a few friends the other day, who were all in different frats, and we all agreed it was an easy way to meet girls and get easy sex. Other than those two reasons, we couldn't rationally come up with any logical reason for joining a fraternity. At the time, in college, it seemed like the right thing to do since many guys were doing it. It was definitely a plus, when meeting girls, to be in a frat. But sometimes I look back and think, " what the fuck was I thinking?" I guess what I'm trying to say is, i don't see how being greek can completely change ones life. I do see how it can get you into trouble while at the same time making life long bonds with other men, but in my view you have to be one weak minded, low self esteemed individual for it to just completely change eveything about you, as one person has recently informed me it did to them.

At the very most it was a lot of fun and gave me unforgetable memories. It did both good and bad things for me. In my opinion though, it should be left at the University. What are some of your thoughts on this?

Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

Sometimes. I think that some of the stuff *that we did* was stupid, but it wasn't just being greek. I know lots of girls who did stoopid isht with their friends within their dorm and major. -shrug- It's one of those groupthink things.

It depends on who you hang around with. For some people, their fraternity brothers and sorority sisters are still their best friends. For others, they're in business with other former greeks who have respect for leadership and character (assuming, of course, that they're one of those greeks that exhibits those things instead of becoming a poster child for venereal disease and liver failure!).

Well, maybe your fraternities only did stuff like that! :) Today, many fraternities and sororities are much more balanced-- as much community service, friendship, and doofy stuff like bowling as there is drinking, dancing, and hooking up. Programming and leadership training are on the rise.

Again, it depends on your situation. In my local at Valpo, I was part of a block class, where we didn't rush, but just joined and rebuilt the organization from scratch. I learned to like (or at least tolerate) people who were very different from myself (I wasn't a party girl-- didn't smoke, rarely drank, didn't have casual sex), and it allowed me to loosen up a bit, while making me better at negotiating, understanding, listening, explaining, and all of that Roberts Rules of Order spin-cycle stuff.

As an ADPi, and as an alumna who's starting to get back into it, I see myself as being able to mentor the collegians. And I love our creed! I want to actually memorize the darned thing someday. I love our alumna ritual, and I'd like to go back and witness the pledge and initiate rituals, because I think there's a lot of meaning there that, as an alumna initiate, I haven't had access to yet.

Again, it really depends on your school and your situation. Not every frat is Animal House, and not every sorority looks like it's out of MTV's Sorority Life (thank god on both counts!!!). If yours was more of a hook-up central, then yeah, that probably should be left at the gates. Otherwise, take a look at your principles, motto, ritual, pin, and creed. There may be good stuff there that you can still apply to your personal life, even if you don't wear your pin or share your fraternity experiences with others.

Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

Sverige, dollbaby...that is why I tried to stay away from many fraternity men. ;)

If I had read this post a year and a half ago, I would've agreed wholeheartedly because I was a little disillusioned with the whole Greek thing. Now, the people who made me feel that way are gone, and I see how good being in a sorority was for me. I don't think I would've left my dorm room at all if it weren't for my sorority sisters! I never participated in doing any "stupid shit" any more than I would have if I'd been independent. I think it just depends on the individual...and of course, I think men would have a more negative view than women because from what I've seen, fraternities are harder on their members, especially pledges (being a sorority pledge, everything was candy and roses!). I get the impression that my stepdad has the same view of his fraternity experience as you do, but me, I'll probably still be wearing my letters when I'm 80. :D

Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

Geez, if this isn't downing, what is? :rolleyes:

Greek Life, like everything else, is what you put into it and how much it means to you. If you don't think it was worth anything but "an easy way to meet girls and get easy sex," then you missed the point.

When I look back on my college days, my regrets are few. Stonewashed jeans, spiral perms, chandelier earrings from Express and maybe asking a SAE named "Lucky" to one of my formals. But being greek? Never!!!

And if you don't feel that you can get anything out of your affiliation after you graduate from college, well, all I can say is you joined for all the wrong reasons.

Well Said!!!

What I will always carry with me from my college fraternity days is the self confidence that I gained having been involved in an organization that encouraged me to be myself and to take chances. I think about the leadership positions that I held, both within the fraternity and in the IFC, and the fact that it helped me not to be shy, but to be outgoing. When I was at a rush party as a freshman, man I was SUCH a wallflower-mainly because I had this perception of fraternity men like the Omegas in "Animal House", or the Alpha Beta's in "Revenge of the Nerds", and I didn't think that I was nearly that cool. But I guess that my brothers saw something in me-a true desire to be part of the brotherhood of Phi Kappa Psi, and from the moment that I received my bid, I was different. It may sound corny, but now that I am in the working world, I have the confidence that I can fit into any social situation, and I am not intimidated by others, no matter what the occasion. So, yes there were some moments that were not the most mature (road trips, certain parties, discussion of potential brothers), but overall, I know that my collegiate experience would not have been nearly as rewarding if I had not joined.

I understand your feelings a little. I am a part of an org. where my chapter was closed during my second year. After its close it made me think about whether or not I received a quality experience, or whether it was all just an illusion. On the other hand I am proud to tell people that I am greek, and I know I will miss my sorority days when I am older.

Being almost done, (enrolled only part time this fall with 6 units) with school at this point and looking back at my college career, I can * Kinda * see where you're coming from. I mean really, what is the whole point of the greek system? . I mean practically all other countries' higher education institutions get along fine with out them.. why do they flourish here and what do they provide us REALLY ??
WELL it totally depends on you. I think that you get something from your org... whether it be the short term "easy hook ups" and opportunities to party, or long term leadership oppontunities/training and lifelong friendships is up to you.
There is this saying that I'm sure many of us have heard time and time again that I know a lot of us like to throw around in rush "you get out of it what you put into it" IT IS THE MOST TRUE STATEMENT IN THE WORLD !! If you put in the time and effort and take on a leadership position as a collegian and take the core values to heart and live them in your life.. I think that being in a GLO can totally change you... (low self esteem or not) or at least help you through your hard times and give you some direction in your life.
It doesn't matter if anyone cares once you're in the non-college arena... sure they may not give a rats ass that you were pres. of your frat or got a bid from the most prestigious house on campus.. or have even HEARD of your org... but bet your bottom dollar your boss cares if you know how to delegate responsibility and get your S#*! done on time.

Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

Hi Sverige,

This particular sentence caught my eye and I wanted to know if you could clarify something for me. Is the fraternity system you were a part of located at a university in the United States, or was it somewhere else, like Europe? I noticed that you are located in Sweden and that only adds to my curiosity.

I ask because there is a big difference between the US and Europe. Though I'm currently living in the UK, I'm an American from Southern California. While at university in the Los Angeles area, I had some neighbours upstairs who were exchange students from Germany. One of them had been in a fraternity in Stuggart. He even showed me pictures of these guys having crazy parties and participating in silly boat races and the like. I got the idea that thier concept of a "fraternity" was very different from ours.

I'm not saying it's wrong, just different. So, I want to make sure that you are not trying to compare two different concepts. ;)

.....Kelly :)

I loved being Greek, having that sisterhood, and being a part of a small college's Greek community. Looking back now, I wouldn't trade the experiences for anything. I just think it's a shame that it cost so much to have the experiences. Also, my chapter closed the minute I graduated, so all of those National dues I paid are now going to help other chapters. That's really comforting when I have no place to go during homecoming, and I have a nice credit card bill every month. :rolleyes:

Re: Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

I was wondering the same thing. It would be hard for a greek in the Midwest to compare their greek experience with someone in the south so how would someone in another country be able to compare their Greek life to the US? http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-013.gif

I'm really sorry that you only joined your greek organization to hook up with girls. Since that was the case, I wouldn't find it hard to understand why your greek experience was unfulfilling. I know a lot of people who chose to join a greek organization their junior year and they definitely did a lot more stupid stuff before they joined a sorority. On my former campus, people know that all eyes are on them and are waiting for them to make a mistake. It causes a lot of people to watch what they say and do more than they did when they were not in a greek organization because they don't want to represent their organization in a bad manner.

I don't think he is talking about an American fraternity. Therefore trying to compare what he was in with our concept of it is pretty much pointless.

You don't need to join a fraternity to get hookups. So I can see how you would be unfulfilled if that was what you joined for.

I knew I was going to rush before I even went to college. Not to have dates, hookups, popularity, etc. but because I was friends with a Greek woman who I looked up to and she told me what Greek Life was SUPPOSED to be like.

I don't think a GLO is anything you should worship, but it implies that you want something more of your womanhood/manhood. It means that you want to be an upstanding member of society and you are willing to take others under your wing to help them become that after you know what it means.

I can safely say that I wouldn't have all the leadership opportunities that I've had if I hadn't joined Alpha Phi. I've been Athletics, which has taught me how to motivate and keep together a team. I've been Historian, which has helped me learn how to get projects done on my own and use my creativity to make a final project. I've been Chaplain, which has taught me to be the serious one who tries to inspire others through thought and sprituality. Nowhere else have I been able to have such a wide variety of positions. Yet, I expect I will have to use all of these skills in the real world. In other supposed "leadership organizations", all I learned is that people are greedy, power hungry, and you can't get anything done most of the time because people are like that. Yes, it's an important lesson to learn, but I sure as hell didn't learn any positive leadership abilities.

I got something out of my Greek experience. Yeah, some people who join "don't get it", and there are groups that sit around and drink and party all the time and stumble through their ritual or don't even do it. I won't lie, it happens. But if they don't get anything out of it, then I sure don't feel too bad when they claim that being Greek was no big deal.

I'm a million years old and went to a school with a thriving greek system (at least when I was there) and while we're not considered a "southern school" my school is in deed south of the Mason Dixon line.

Here are my thoughts about being greek.

I originially joined because I had a boyfriend who was much much older than me and I hated my high school and I realized that I had very few friends, much less female friends. Not to imply he was controlling me, he wasn't but I really wanted friends who would be my bridesmaids for our "wedding." And, I had seen images of pretty girls in their pearls and wanted to be that girl.

So, luckilly I had a pretty good rush experience and joined one of the "best" sororities with the "sophisticated" reputation and the drop dead gorgeous house. And then my boyfriend and me broke up and my college experience began.

I GUARANTEE you that if I hadn't joined a sorority, I WOULD NOT have graduated college. My sorority gave me a reason to stay in school. I LOVED college and 100% of that was because I was in a sorority and l lived in the house.

I had great friends in college, granted I am no longer friends with most of them, we just grew apart, and I did hook up. And I fully feel that the sorority helped facilitate that. HOWEVER, this is what I WANTED/NEEDED to do and I appreciate the sorority being the calatylst for it.

Also, I learned about so many different types of people. Even though we were all pretty much "sophisticated" we were still insecure and little girls. It was amazing beign with these women, some I loved liked biological sisters and some I down right hated but it was great. It was like camp. Having your toilets cleaned, food served for you, cute busboys, etc.

The only thing I find pretty "stupid" is the amount of time we spent stressing on who we were doing homecoming with. and then the moment homecoming was over, we stressed about who we were doing greek week with. Even though we were a top house it still was stressful. Rush in a sick twisted way was fun. It was a thousand degrees, the funny stories, the tears, taking five showers in one day, it was all great.


So, I have nothing but love for my college experience and know for a fact that if I hadn't been in a sorority, it would have been nothing and I would have dropped out.

And, I haven't joined an alumnae group but haven't ruled it out.

I have pride for my sorority and thank them immensely for being the main reason why I graduated college.

And, I think the original poster is correct somewhat that I don't walk the halls of my work saying "hi, I was a XYZ in college." It was hardly ever brought up since the day after i graduated from college.

If I were in the "south" I probably wouldn't bring it up either but who knows. I think it's a hoot that we have a bond and had some of the same experiences.

Sorry for the rant.

I'd have to characterize my experience as a fairly rare one. I was privliged with being able to play an important role in the formation and founding of a chapter. I can say that without a doubt it helped me learn how to be a leader, how to effectively manage tasks and people and how to set and attain my short and long-term goals. In a fraternity I was presented with many situations, good and bad that I would have never encountered as an independant. While challenging at times, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

Now as an alumnus we're workinging to form an alumni chapter and later an alumni club. Working on building our own house and facilitating the growth of a strong undergrad chapter.

I know many that regretted their decisions. Probably even a few in my chapter. It's not something that's for everyone and I don't think there's anyone that would pretend that it is. Hang around this board for awhile and you'll see plenty of people who had (and are having) great Greek Life experiences.

To be perfectly honest, I joined my fraternity a couple of years back primarily for the reasons that we "aren't supposed to mention" to freshman, i.e., the parties and girls. Being a very socially introverted kid without many friends, I was thrilled at the prospect of being somewhere where I could find a party six days a week. :)

Thankfully, that period of the fraternity is over, and in the time since, I have experienced all of the other great things that the college fraternity can provide: leadership development, brotherhood, lifelong connections, etc... Also, I have become so much more confident in almost any situation than I could have ever imagined.

So in other words, it's not always a bad thing to go Greek for the social aspect, but as long as someone discovers the other great things about Greek life, then the time spent in a fraternity or sorority will last long after the college experience.

This question comes from a guy whose other 3 posts were bumps of UF_Pike's so-called "classic" threads... :rolleyes:

But everyone else has had some great answers! I personally can't answer because I'm not at all close to graduating... sigh.

I look back on my college years with happy memories and some regrets. My regrets have nothing to do with going greek. Being a sorority sister was the best thing I did in college. :)

Yeah, I noticed that too...and he hasn't been back to post in his own thread.

I may have worded a few things wrongly. Speaking and writing in one language daily and then typing another, it's not hard to see where one can misword things.

It's not that I regret making the choices I did, I just didnt see any rational reason for doing what I did other than the reasons I stated. I doubt any of us would have had a hard time meeting women or forming a relationship with them regardless of whether not we went greek. Those reasons were the only things we could come up with as to why someone would want to join such an organization. I realize there are people who join a fraternity and inturn become more of a man, if you will, but if you already have those qualities (the confidence, leadership abilities, fitting into any social situation, and not being intimidated by others, no matter what the occasion ) why would you join? Who would want to change their lifestyle completely if it already bears the qualities such organizations claim to instill in the lives of it's members? I think it would be safe to say that you are not the same individual when you come out, than what you were when you went in.

I think most Amerikans percieve things differently than the rest of the world. Amerikans, for the most part, are lazy. That said, I can see how joining such an organization would help one through their secondary education and achieve their goal of getting a college education. However, how do you explain those who do not finish college,drop out or take an excessive amount of time to finish school while being in a fraternity. I think it's different for women who join a sorority since they normally are not the ones throwing the huge partys and indulging in long nights. If being in such an organization means you show their values throughout your life, wouldn't it be odd to see it's members with so many problems in their lives? Since that is the case with a number men who do join a fraternity, my question again, why would you want to join?

Again, I'm sure many see this message as negative but all i'm trying to do is to find the reason for being apart of something that can have such a diverse effect on the lives of it's members. I know my response is a bit late, but we're 7 hours ahead of you depending on whether or not you're on EST.

Re: Re: Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

I guess I could put it like this, being in the u.s. is like being in many different countries. People throughout different parts of the u.s. act and think differently from each other. For example, you have the whole "southern hospitality" and the "western train of thought" differences. People in the u.s. are different in the same way Frenchmen, Englishmen, Swedes and Germans differ from each other. People in different parts of the u.s eat different types of food, as it is in Europe. What is acceptable in one corner of the u.s. may not be acceptable in the other corner. With that said, it is impossible to say that people in Amerikan greek systems should all be joining for the same apparent reasons. With that understanding, would it be irrational to assume that while one person is joing for reason A. and another is joining for reason B., either is in the wrong for their reasons as to why they should have joined such an organization? I think not.

Oh yeah, your comments keep getting better and better. :rolleyes:
And, it's "Americans" with a C.

I live in the West and have no idea what the "western train of thought" is.

One of the major reasons I was initially interested in joining my organization was so that I could meet more people, both male and female. I was a sophomore when I joined, and I knew very few people. Joining Kappa broadened my social circle immensely, and I doubt I could have met nearly as many people otherwise.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that meeting people should be regarded as a "lower" function of a GLO. I went home every weekend and was pretty badly homesick my freshman year. Being a Kappa has made my university life much more homelike, and that is something that I feel indebted to my GLO for, whatever happens after I finish school.

Are there more than one of you under this sn? You refer to "we."

Quote:

I realize there are people who join a fraternity and inturn become more of a man, if you will, but if you already have those qualities (the confidence, leadership abilities, fitting into any social situation, and not being intimidated by others, no matter what the occasion ) why would you join? Who would want to change their lifestyle completely if it already bears the qualities such organizations claim to instill in the lives of it's members? I think it would be safe to say that you are not the same individual when you come out, than what you were when you went in.

Frankly, if someone walked in a recruitment event thinking they are all that like you describe, I'm not sure if I'd want them as a sister. I want people I can love and be friends with, not people that clearly think they're God's gift to Kappa Kappa Gamma and that we better be thanking our lucky stars that they chose to grace our odious organization with their presence. It's obvious that this hypothethetical person you describe also is lacking a mighty important quality: humility! Whether they learn this by not receiving a bid from a few groups because of their obnoxious attitude at a recruitment event or by royally screwing up Greek Week because they refused to ask for help when they were in over their heads, trust me, they will learn it.

I also think of most of those qualities as not being "have or have not" qualities. There are different levels of proficiency. One could possess the skills at a level that suits them for middle management and not much more, or they could have them on the level of a Martin Luther King. I doubt that many college students already possess the skills needed to be the next Martin Luther King, and so it is unquestionable that everyone can benefit from building these skills. A GLO can help you to do just that.

Quote:

I think most Amerikans percieve things differently than the rest of the world. Amerikans, for the most part, are lazy. That said, I can see how joining such an organization would help one through their secondary education and achieve their goal of getting a college education. However, how do you explain those who do not finish college,drop out or take an excessive amount of time to finish school while being in a fraternity. I think it's different for women who join a sorority since they normally are not the ones throwing the huge partys and indulging in long nights. If being in such an organization means you show their values throughout your life, wouldn't it be odd to see it's members with so many problems in their lives? Since that is the case with a number men who do join a fraternity, my question again, why would you want to join?

Nobody on this board, or at least I hope I am correct in this, will say that joining a GLO is a magical balm that suddenly makes everything in your life perfect forevermore. Furthermore, GLO membership does not magically make you a saint. Many people love the ritual and ideals of their GLO, but they are a lot to live up to. That's why they're called ideals, not universal truths. I'm sure that I and most of the others reading this post could name an instance when they fell far short of the ideals espoused in their ritual. It happens. The point is not that you reach them 100% all the time, but that you keep striving for them all the time. You will improve that way.

Fraternity membership is not the only reason people drop out of school. Since I've seen statistics indicating that the drop out rate is considerably lower and the GPA considerably higher amongst Greeks, that would seemingly indicate that fraternity membership is, if not a deterrent, at least not a major cause of the problem.

Honey, sorority members also stay extremely busy. I know there are weeks when I eat sleep and breathe Kappa. This has forced me to learn good time management skills and also forced me to curb my procrastination. It's somewhat of a sink or swim scenario- you either learn these skills and thrive, or you don't and have major problems in college. Frankly, I'd rather have major issues in college with time management than out in the real world. Colleges and your parents tend to be much more forgiving!

Quote:

Again, I'm sure many see this message as negative but all i'm trying to do is to find the reason for being apart of something that can have such a diverse effect on the lives of it's members. I know my response is a bit late, but we're 7 hours ahead of you depending on whether or not you're on EST.

We'll be much more forgiving if you demostrate yourself to be open-minded and willing to listen. I honestly don't mind being questioned if you're interested in our side, but when it's already a foregone conclusion that GLOS=EVIL and you're just trying to bait us, it gets irritatating. Here's hoping your case is the former!

Based on your answer, I realized something. You don't understand the American Greek system because you are NOT culturally American {as in grew up here} To understand it [our Greek system], you need to understand America, her history and the nuances that come with it. I don’t have the energy to explain it so I won’t but I’m sure my fellow GC’ers may decide to.

Our Greek system plays a large part in our politics, history, social areas, etc. And for all the flaws that it has, we find it quite useful as many of my fellow GCers have attested. No, our system is not perfect, but we are always seeking ways to make it better and more useful during college and after college.

Please don’t put something down you really have no knowledge of. We are happy to help you try to understand the reason/s behind our fraternal ideas.

And by the way, we are not LAZY--regardless of your definition.

NinjaPoodle, you read my mind. :)

It completely baffles me that internationals have this perception of Americans. For your information, all Americans do not have priviledged lives with nice cars, lots of money, mansions, etc. A lot of Americans work very hard for what they have and continue to work hard everyday of their lives. Its saddens me that "some" internationals have this misconception of what Americans are and what they aren't. I know my family has worked very hard for what we have and we will continue to work hard. I'm sorry that you think all Americans sh*t on golden toilets.

sverige, I am glad at least to see you posting again! Was wondering if this was a hit and run post.

One who has graduated many years ago still have some of my best Friends who are My Brothers over a 38 years.

I would never have know over 600 Members of LXA not only in My Chapter but others if it was not for beloning to a Greek Organization! Well for that matter, the 100's who are in other Fraternity/Soroitys.

I and many of My Brothers all over are still active in My Chapter as are members of all Greek Orgs.

Can it help in the real world? The answer is YES! I would rather Hire a Greek Member over a not-greek as of the knowledge and responsabilaty that is held during the College years and the Broadening of it.

Welcome to Greek Chat and I hope you will put some more input into the site! But, I pays to learn a little more before you post negative thoughts about something that you should learn more about!:)

being from holland...
 

I'd like to add my two cents.

I joined my GLO (the name which does not actually contain Greek letters, but thats a different topic) almost 8 years ago.
I guess I'm somewhere in the middle on the 'what has it done for you' discussion.
First of all: I've had a great time, met fabulous people, met my best friends, learned amazing new things (such as leadership skills. people's skills etc.) and partied a lot (I have to add: this is something 'politically correct' in dutch GLO's)
On the other hand, the reaosn why I joined was that I arrived in a new city, where I did not know anyone and joining seemed like a way to make some friends. it was! I found a home away from home.
Furthermore I'd like to add that joining groups is a human thing to do. Alomst everyone likes hanging out with likeminded people, everbody wants to have friends, so to me it seems pretty logical that students want to join clubs, bands and teams. We're human!
Having said all this, looking back on these years I have to say some of the 'magic' wears off after a couple of years. You start to see that things are almost the same year after year. You realise that those thing you fell for (such as great rush events) are a matter of routine. This however does NOT make them less valuable. Every year during rush I am amazed that 'we' (students, doing all of this voluntarily) can pull it of.
So yes, I am still glad that I joined, I have learned a lot, made friends (hopefully for life). But once you see the inside of the machine some of the magic goes away. I can see now that some of the things that meant the world to me then, were not really that important. You can get a bit carried away every once in a while!
However, I most certainly do not regret joining :) ! Had the time of my life and I've joked to my friends about starting a GLO for people for those no longer in college who want to meet new people!

love
Dutchgirl

I've seen many who were involved in college newspapers, college politics, and other orgs who also did not finish college in four years because of those other commitments - with Greek Life oftentimes it is the same thing, the person becomes very involved (taking an office, etc.) and ends up not paying as much attention to school as he or she should. I think the "graduating in more than four years" problem isn't just having to do with Greek Life - I know many a person who took more than the standard time, and he or she was not Greek at all.

It's something that happens to Greeks and non-Greeks alike. In my chapter, and at my school for that matter, the greatest majority of Greeks finish their degrees in the standard 4 years (or five years for to get their undergrad and masters), and for those who don't, it's not because of Greek Life.

As a member of a GLO and a student who will graduate in April 2004, 5 years after I started. I am offended that you feel the need to blame my organization for my lack of the typical 4 year graduation. There are multiple reasons why I am not graduating in 4 years. Some personal, some financial, some academic. Everyone's situation is different. My organization has helped in so many ways, many of which I would not like to discuss on this board, but my GLO is not the cause. To say there is something wrong with a person not graduating in 4 years is like telling a person who attends a uniuversity for the first time at say the age of 30 that they are too late and they shouldn't even try.

I am sorry that you did not have a positive experience with Greek life, but it appears you have very little knowledge of North American Greek life. It would be best if you knew something about it before condeming it.

In regards to length of college time, it seems as though many school are extending some of their programs to five years instead of four (mine was a five year). This is not necessarily connected to involvement in Greek Life or other campus activities.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Looking back on Greek years
 

Sverige ,

Perhaps you can enlighten us about the process of becoming 'greek' in sweden. My buddy's gf studied there and she told me she joined a "fraternity" (in parenthesis because they're not actually called fraternities), and what she described to me was nothing like the Greek-Lettered Organizations in North America. And, from what i hear, these Swedish-organizations are mostly social-oriented, which probably doesn't foster any real feelings of brotherhood and community.

If I may be so bold as to chime in, they have "fraternities" in Germany (hey, Swedish is a "Germanic language", so I am not totally off base here with drawing a connection between the 2 countries and cultures), only they're called "Student Corporations". Some of them even have a "duelling side" (it's considered prestigious to have a scar on your face from duelling). I visited a "fraternity house" in Heidelberg, Germany, called "Vineta".

They also had Student Corporations in Latvia, where my grandparents came from. They're not like North American Greeks (i.e. the names are not Greek lettered), but I am sure that they do their male-bonding thing (think of like Order of Elks or Eagles, or Lions Club or Knights of Columbus or whatever). My grandfather's fraternity was called "Ventonia" (he even had a poster on his wall that proudly proclaimed "Fraternitas Ventonia" so they did think of themselves as a "fraternity", although not in the Animal House sense, though I am sure they got up to some "revelry" in their time). They have Latvian sororities as well (my aunt was a black sheep and she was kicked out of her sorority Dzintra!)

There used to be a GC'er on here...I think matthewg was his name- he lived in Germany and always wanted to have deep philisophical discussions, etc. LOL

Here is a nifty website:
http://www.balticorp.de/bphv/links/en/?linkside=riga
It's all about Baltic Fraternities in Germany as well as fraternities in Dorpat, Reval and Riga (which is Latvia)
"Today these countries have many student fraternities with thousands of members who do not only participate in academic life, but also in the political, economical, and scientific sectors."

They even had a "Baltic Fraternities Convention" last year in Munich:
http://www.balticorp.de/bk2002/pdf/flyer.en.pdf

Disagree. And respect that not everyone want to be Americans.

I learn a lot from my fraternity experience. I learn how to deal with loads of BS from many people with different interests (I wonder why can't the politician learn this lessons?) and how to manage them so we can still function and move forward. THat lesson is probably the best lesson I learn from my experiences. Sure I've disagree and might even be pissed off at some of the choices made by others (doesn't this sound familiar anyone?), but I learn that ultimately everybody is after the same thing. Perhap the biggest lesson i've learn is how to avoid, after a controversial vote, being divided according to how one voted during the selections.

I also learned how not to sleep in front of the dormitories during the cold winter Buffalo nights. But that lesson I learn on my own, nothing to do with GLO experience.

Sorry if I sounded hostile. I get sick of people who on one hand claimed that all American are lazy, and on the other hand, everybody should be grateful that USA exist.

No worries Arya! You didn't sound that way at all! Everyone is allowed to have the opinions (one of the reasons why America is so great!) and I couldn't agree with you statement more! ;)

I know the education program at our school is a five year program.

In regards to the amount of time that it takes to graduate, some of the international students from Africa told me that they had 3 yr degree programs unlike our 4 yr programs. Basically their programs do not include gen. eds/liberal arts classes, only the classes necessary to finish their major. So I guess in comparison to a 3yr program, it might seem like Americans take longer to graduate.

NinjaPoodle,

I never stated that I didn't know what the American greek system is like. In fact, I did not join a Swedish fraternity. I was in an American fraternity at a school in the south, below the dixie line.

I perfectly well understand America's history, social and economical history, as well as it's political history. In fact, most Europeans know more about America than most Americans themselves. For example, most Americans cannot name each president that has passed through the executive office from George Washington to the current Bush, despite the short History of the U.S. and some of it's presidents being Greek themselves. Also, few can name each branch of government and what their primary role and functions are, as well as who is the head of each without looking it up or asking someone.

I tried something one time, I asked 4 friends who are Americans to write down each of the 50 states and gave them 10 minutes to do it, I offered them 15$ each if they could. None of them could get all 50, most missed 1 or 2 states. I also popped the question as to what type of Economy the U.S. has, do you realize that everyone I asked, with the exception of one person, all said Democracy.

One other thing that baffles me is that Americans show little interest in foreign nations. I was in a library and I told somone that I am living in Sweden, his respnose, " Is that by Michigan or something?". I'd be willing to be that most of you on this board couldn't name the presidental succession order down to the 5th in line should the others be killed. Knowing these things and they're like doesn't make one more American than the other. Not knowing things like the ones mentioned and trying to tell someone they don't understand America, it makes you and your kind look stupid. Now, not caring whether or not you know them is ignorance and makes you a hippocrit for trying to tell one they don't understand how things are in America. Don't try to turn this conversation into an American vs. Non-American ordeal. I can already see it coming. Since many here claim to hold dear to ideals and beliefs, one ideal and belief is not making yourself and what you represent look bad. That said, go out and learn a new foreign language, be more open minded, quit always thinking everyone else in the world hates you. I am trying to have a simple conversation with you and some of you are making this into a greek hating message.

I know how the greek system is in the U.S., thats why I came onto this board to discuss such matters and get the opinions of those within the system, those who have already graduated. I never once said I didn't have a positive or good time being in a fraternity. I never once stated that GLO's= Evil. I had much fun and many memories. But one day should my children ask me why did i join a fraternity, I wouldn't want to lie and say it was because of it's ideals and beliefs, obviously the members in my organization did not live up to them and hold them steadfast. However, I do realize that each and every chapter is different and my experiences might have been different had I joined one of the other orginizations. I don't regret doing what I did, it's just my organization painted one picture but was actually different beneath the outer layer. A good comparison would be like the paintings in the movie " The thomas crown affair" with Pierce Brosnan. On the surface they showed one thing, but after a little water, it was actually a joke.

To dutchGirl-

I understand that joing a GLO would help you meet more people and bring in friends to those who don't have any. However, thats called paying for your friends and it is something most people look down on. In Europe we don't look at it that way. Most Europeans love meeting new people. But many people in America look at being apart of a GLO as paying for friends, which is fine if you don't plan on living in America. I'm just trying to say that the perception within the minds of many individuals in the U.S. is that being in such an organization is "paying" for people to like you. Once in the organization one does not look at it that way, but, if you stop paying your dues try and see how long you'll be allowed to come into the fraternity house and visit with your pledege brothers and others. Yes, the dues are for good reasons and are the reason why the GLO has it's functions and parties, but if they were all true friends, they would still like you regardless of whether or not you quit paying the dues and are no longer active. It is stupid to think that depsite ones financial short comings, all the members within his/her organization would still love to have that person come by and visit or hang out with from time to time. Usually that person goes either inactive or is blackballed, this inturn makes it easier for it's members to then turn thier backs on that one individual and label him/her as an outcast. In my view that is not true friends. Let me point out though, this did not happen to me, I just realize thats how it works and I think it stinks.


Now, for those of you who already have a prejudice against me:

Below is one reason why Americans are portrayed the way they are:

This message was sent to me from aopinthesky:

"I have to tell you, I think you are a real ASS. If you don't know the AMERICAN slang meaning of that, let me know and I will explain it to you. I agree with Tom's post, it always helps if you know your subject matter before you post something that shows your total ignorance. In this case, your ignorance of AMERICA (that's with a C) is showing. If you are interested in our point of view, I am sure you can get it, and get it in a nice way. If you are interested in flaming the Greekchat Board, please go away. I wouldn't dare go on a foreign message board and post things that degraded Europeans. Why do you think it is all right for you to do that to what is largely an AMERICAN message board. It does not show your intelligence, LACK OF LAZINESS, or dominance over AMERICANS. It shows that you are stupid and bigoted."


A few things, I know a lot about what I write. I'm not a bigot nor am I ignortant to American life, greek and non greek. I'm not degrading anyone or anything. I'm merely asking for opinions. The problem here began when some of you just assumed certain things and made responses to what your mind conjured. My use of a K instead of a C was simply a way to see which of you don't like me. Most could have cared less whether or not I used a K or a C, that is irrelevant to what we are supposed to be talking about. In no way was I trying to show any sort of dominance over any nationality, it appears some people have a reading comprehension problem.

I knew coming into this converstaion it would strike up a few flames, however we are all adults here and please remember to try and act like one. You should be able to talk about things without getting so defensive. All you have to do is show you're point of view, there's no need to call someone an Ass if they don't see things as you. Calling someone ignorant is much better than calling someone an ass, if that were not the case do you think it would be ok to call someone a bitch? If I called you a bitch it would only raise the wall even higher and you're opinion of me would only sink, what do you think my opinion of you is after calling me an ass since you cannot intelligently express your point of view? If you think I'm ignorant, fine. I don't care. But I doubt many of your fellow GC'ers would care to engage in a profanity battle.

I guess the best comparison to being greek and not being greek is easily put like this:

Being greek is like being married. You put your time, money and heart into it, and sometimes in the end you find that it wasn't really for you. It has it's ups and it has it's down. Depending on who you made your bed with determines what type of experience you'll have.

For those of you who asked about GLO's in Sweden, there are none. The closets thing to a GLO would be like something modeled after the Amerikan Kiwanis club, Elks Lodge or Shriners Club, they are merely groups of men who gather for social reasons. Thats it. Also, I'm the only person who writes under this name, but there are 3 others who browse this forum under the name as well.


Also, DutchGirl- Are you going to the festival in Denmark in 1 1/2 weeks? If you are planning, it has been sold out. Over 1 million tickets are sold. It has not sold out in over 7 yrs. Surely it will be fun. I have 5 tickets, i need to get rid of 1 extra. Myself and 3 girls will be going.

Wow I could say soooooooooooooooo many things but I just won't :) I will say this. If I'm paying for friends at least I am getting my money's worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)