Religion question...
 

There's an interesting thread in the AKA forum about conversion... a few people (myself included) have said that they went through with confirmation into their childhood faith mainly because they were expected to by their families and communities.

So I'm wondering what you think about confirmation ages...

What does your faith do (if applicable) as far as confirmation/coming of age? What does being confirmed mean in terms of rights and responsibilities? At what age are you confirmed? And do you think that age is too young, too old, or just right?

If you're agnostic, atheist, or your faith doesn't have a confirmation - what do you think of confirmation ages in general?

I know this has the potential to get controversial... let's keep it civil :)

I got confirmed in Catholicism because I was expected to in seventh grade. In seventh grade, I was 11! So, I really had no say, but I can say now that I'm "borderline" Catholic. I don't agree with a lot of its teachings....I can't say I believe 100% in God; I don't know what I believe....

Re: Religion question...
 

What an interesting thread!

I was raised Presbyterian, but my family wasn't all hard core about it. In fact, my father hasn't been to church since he was a kid (he was raised Catholic) and he doesn't believe in God. My mother was the one who took me, and I went to confirmation classes and was confirmed when I was in 8th grade. At the time, I wasn't really into religion, but I figured I probably believed in it as much as I could at that young age.

Since I was about 18, I have been curious about other religions because I just don't believe in the teachings of Christianity and I don't believe in God. If I'm anything, I'm a non-practicing Buddhist. I say that because I believe in the teachings and principles of Buddhism and I try to live my life according to my understanding of them, but I don't "sit" or go to a temple.

I don't really think it was a bad thing that I was confirmed, but I don't think that 8th grade is old enough to be making any declarations about religion because you're too young to really, truly understand it. I don't have a problem with parents teaching their children about religion and exposing them to it, but I also don't think that (at least for me) it is appropriate to practice or believe in a religion just because it's what my parents taught me. Honestly, I have *tried* to believe in God and I think that I would find it very comforting to do so, but when it comes down to it, I just don't.

If I ever have a kid (and that's not really my plan at this time) I think that I would probably try to educate him or her about different religions so that he/she could make an educated decision about religion when/if desired.

To me at least, religion or being spiritual is a very personal issue and decision. I don't care for confirmation at all, because I don't see the point of it. I guess I don't care much for organized religion at all. I don't think that whether you're confirmed or a memeber of a church or a temple or whatever is important. I think that what's inside you and what you believe is.

Catholics around here get confirmed their Junior year in HS.
They are still under the pressure of their parents and peers.
It's a very serious statement you make in regards to your beliefs and promises.

I think it would be far better, honest and more meaningful if the time was an individual choice. However, too many would most likely put it off and forget about it. It IS viewed as a grace which is a gift and empowers us against evil. Tough call.

I was confirmed into the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in 8th grade, when I was thirteen. I had no say in the matter.

If given the choice-- and by "choice" I mean "a decision made free from emotional blackmail"-- when I was thirteen I probably would have gotten confirmed anyway. If confirmation in the LCMS were later, say junior or senior year in high school, then I probably would not have.

I've since fallen away from the Church. I don't like its philosophy of guilt, its presumptively judgemental nature, or its misogynist and patronizing attitudes towards women. I agree with Valkyrie that religion or being spiritual is a very personal issue. I consider myself a very spiritual person and I still go to church on occasion, but most of the time I'm not religious.

It's all the same thing to me, anyway.

Re: Religion question...
 

I am one of those people who talked about being confirmed because of expectations, not because of any internal change. As a Christian I think it is important for parents to realize that they cannot "make" their children be Christians. Christianity is about an inward change, not an outward declaration. You can make all of the outward declarations in the world, but if there had not been a true, inward change, then it really means nothing in the eyes of God.

I think parents should explain what giving your life to Christ means (if they are Christians) and let the child know it is their decision and what the consequences are. I'm not sure where this is, but I think the Bible says something about children being covered by their parents until they are at the "age of cencent." and at that point they are kinda on their own with salvation.

To answer your question, I attend a Baptist church and my pastor makes certain when a little kid comes down to "give his/her life to Christ" that they are doing it because they want to, not because their parents told them too. IF the kids says I came down because mama told me too he has a little talk with the parent saying I know you want your child to be saved, but this is not the way, etc. It's very loving and gentle. He then tells the child when THEY are ready to come back and if they have any questions about God, etc. to ask. I think that is the best way.

Bottom line, I think children should be taught about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit from the moment they come out of the womb, but they ultimately need to make the decision.

Re: Re: Religion question...
 

That is what I was going to say, only more eloquent.

As a baby, I was dedicated in the Southern Baptist church. My whole family went to that church and it was all I ever knew. Then, when I was about 8, my aunt and uncle converted to the Lutheran Church. I would go to church with them from time to time and it really helped broaden my knowledge of religion.

My sunday school group hardly ever changed, so we all knew everybody else. At about age 11, there were only about 4 of us that had not "taken the plunge" (Southern Baptists use immersion for baptism).

I finally decided to be baptized when I was 14. At my church, baptism was always referred to as the outward action of the inner change. I really didn't think I could make that kind of decision until I was older. The other kids who were baptized at the same service were 4, 5, and 8. At those ages, I couldn't have known enough to make an informed decision, but everyone is different.

I never felt pressure from my family, honestly. My parents knew that everything would work out in God's own time. It was a bizzare coincidence, though, that I was baptized on Mother's Day. My mom cried and said that she couldn't have asked for a better present... :)

There was never much pressure to go through with any particular religion in my family. Yet, I was raised a Catholic.

I was confirmed either my Sophomore or Junior year. We were required to attend a class for a year and at the end there was a ceremony. The archbishop presides over the ceremony. You sign your name in a book (symbollic of the acts of the early Christians) -- then he lays hands on your head, also symbollic of the acts of early Christians.

Answering my own question :)

I went through Confirmation as a Catholic at the end of 8th grade. I was one of the youngest in my class, so I was still 12. At the time, I was starting to doubt whether I really wanted to be Catholic. If it had been up to me, I would have asked to put it off for a year or two until I'd sorted some things through, and most likely never would have done it. But it was quite clear to me that if I wanted a roof over my head, I was getting confirmed on schedule.

Judaism is a little different. You become bar or bat mitzvah at age 13 (12 for Orthodox girls). You are then considered an adult - whether or not you participate in a bat/bat mitzvah ceremony, chant from the Torah, and have a big expensive party afterwards. (In fact, the idea of a bat mitzvah ceremony for a girl is fairly new.)

There is also a confirmation, which in my congregation happens in 10th grade. To be confirmed, you have to continue studying over and above the requirements for a bar/bat mitzvah ceremony. But being confirmed is the exception rather than the rule.

The problem is that the age of adulthood in many faiths was set back when 12 and 13 year olds could and did go off and get married and set up their own households. Nowadays, our culture and laws consider you a child until you're 18. I think you have to make a decision like confirmation of your own free will, and if you're going to be stuck as a child in your parents' house for the next five years, you don't really have that freedom.

My hypothetical future children will be going to Sunday school and Hebrew school, but if they then decide they don't want a bar/bat mitzvah ceremony or to continue studying and be confirmed, that's their decision and I'll respect it (although I will be disappointed).

Re: Re: Religion question...
 

If I had told my pastor that I had reservations but was going through with confirmation because my parents wanted me to, my momma would have tanned my hide the minute we got home from church.

ETA: I guess, upon reflection, my biggest problem with most types of Christianity is that they use fear to manipulate children. Not cool.

Hey, KKC, come on over to the ELCA - all the pomp, none of the guilt LOL. Did you ever see the Cheers where Woody thought Kelly was going to go to hell because she was ELCA and he was Missouri Synod?

Anyway, I am Lutheran and our confirmation age is 9th grade (you get confirmed on the Pentecost of that year). You are then considered an adult in the eyes of the church. This used to be first communion age also, but that was changed and it is getting progressively younger. I think kids can now commune at age 7. Which trips me out, cause we use real wine. :p

I go to a United Church of Christ congregation and the confirmation age is 9th grade. I joined the church my senior year, and I went through confirmation at 17 years of age (but I had been baptized at the age of 7). In our church it is a very traditional congregation where most members families have been attending this church for more than one generation, so there is an expectation on the children that they will go through confirmation in the ninth grade. I think it depends on the individual....some are fully committed and ready to go through confirmation, and others are going through because their parents "expect them to". A neat thing I saw last year was one of the members of the confirmation class was unable to go through confirmation with the rest of her class. The others went through on the original date, but when the other member was ready to go through a while later, the rest of the class came back and went through the confirmation ceremony all over again with her. It was the most touching thing I've ever seen! :)

Interesting. In the Catholic Church you have your first communion when you're in 2nd grade. It's a big deal - girls wear white dresses and veils, boys wear suits, there's a full Mass and the first people to receive communion are the boys and girls...

My parents' congregation rarely offered wine, but when they did, yep, it was the real thing.

ok, </hijack> :)

I think this is a really interesting topic. I'm very fascinated by religions in general.

I was raised -first- Baptist as a small kid, and then in a Grace Brethren church after about age 8. Both are your basic Christian denominations. There was/is no confirmation age. When a person is ready, they get saved. And as someone else mentioned, baptism is used as an expression of that. Although I was baptized in the baptist church, and then when I joined the GB church I had to be baptized as part of membership. (Which now I think was an odd requirement).

When it comes down to it, I believe in Christ as God's son, etc. However, I really don't accpet any 'church' religions. In fact, I'm very into Taoism & Buddhism as philosophies & draw a lot of parallels between these eastern religions & the teachings of Christ. So I guess none of my religious beliefs would call for confirmation.

I agree that religion is a pretty big decision for most kids, and I imagine the vast majority go through their respective ceremonies simply because that's what they're supposed to be doing at that age.

I can also value some of these ceremonies as "rites of passage" -something that in general is lacking in Western socieities. And some sociologist- type people think is an important step for kids to sort of grow up & 'cross over' into that state. I think if that's the case, 12 & 13 is way too young for our society. But I can respect their purpose in that sense, I guess.

I was confirmed as a Catholic when I was 16 - in WI we do it our junior year of high school. I think that it's a horrible time to do it, because you're experiencing so many questions of faith. I was told my parents would not pay for college if I didn't get confirmed -even though my parents didn't get married in a church and rarely attend. I did it anyway and pretty much only go to Church for weddings and funerals. I dislike the way CCD classes are taught, because I was told to interpret the Bible literally :rolleyes: and that even though God is supposed to be forgiving, he won't forgive you for things like premarital sex, the use of contraception, and abortion. How much sense does that make?

I think I've finally come to terms with my Catholicism now, my theology class (which, although at a Jesuit university, is being taught by a Anglican minister) is really helping me to understand things. I am looking forward to taking a class on American Catholic Thought, it looks interesting.

On a side note, I attended a Methodist church with GPBoy once, and also went there for his funeral. I am very unhappy with Protestant teachings at this point. At the funeral his minister (who knew I was Catholic, as were many of of Lee's friends) went into this thing about how we go to Heaven solely because God saves, not because we lived a good life. I was PO'ed, and still am, about that. A funeral is not the time to be searching for converts.

Baptized a Roman Catholic shortly after I was born (it was expected from the family). Never bothered going to First Communion nor Confirmation, and I'm not much of a practicing Catholic nowadays. Weddings, baptisms and funerals, and that's about it.

I am a firm believer in God as the Supreme Being (otherwise I couldn't become a Mason) and also took an obligation in the Knights Templar (a Masonic appendant body) that I swore to defend the Christian religion. For all intents and purposes, my being a Mason is grounds for excomunication anyway, and there are some teachings of the Catholic Church that I am at odds with.

So maybe I might wind up at the local Episcopal or Anglican church, 'Catholic Light' as some say. :)

I think I read that according to the post-Vatican II Catechism of th Catholic Church, it's no longer grounds for excommunication to be involved with the Masons.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Masons in Catholicism
 

I'm curious about this as well, it has been discussed in other threads but I never found a post with the answer. My friend who is a PiPhi and I were discussing this one night (we were confirmed in the same church at the same time) and one of our other Catholic friends swore up and down that involvement in Masonry or any other secret society was grounds for expulsion.

In Southern B Church. I left at 3 years of age!

Did not join a Church for 11 years.

Became Anglecan Catholic for 4 years before I was Babtised. By My own volition.

Married a Roman Catholic women, and since well, not married. Many stories in between, I love discussusing Theology with People!:)

Relegion is very simple, We all beleive in a Supreme Being, We just call it by a different name!

Most of the Religious Fighting is not about Religion, but Polotics and Land!

Will Rogers, "Get it now, they dont make it anymore"!

The Falacy of Life, I am Me, You are You, But who are We?:confused:

Well put! :)

I have had a Bar-Mitzvah, one of the days I will always remember. As well as making a journey to the Holy Land 4 years ago.

This web page explains the current stance of the Church regarding it and Freemasonry: http://showcase.netins.net/web/clear...mason.html#004

Great research and there it is.

Guess I'll have to table any hopes of joining the Masons until Vatican III:D

I totally agree.

In March, a sister of mine from college was killed in a car accident. She was only 19 years old. It was a very traumatic event for everyone involved. The minister that they chose to speak at her funeral did the exact thing you discussed. I almost walked out because he was completely changing the focus of the ceremony. It just made me feel very uncomfortable and I am a believer. I cannot even imagine what others may have been thinking or feeling.

I just think that is such an inappropriate time to try and evangelize. I was appalled with Lee's ceremony because Lee was not particularily religious and he was a very tolerant person. I am not sure who the minister felt he was consoling, but a considerable amount of us left offended rather than comforted. The fact there wasn't a eulogy compounded on this, but the idea that a minister would use a ceremony that is supposed to bring closure to tell me that my religious beliefs are wrong is just horrible.

When is Vatican III so I can clear my schedule? :D

Vatican I was in the mid-late 1800's.. Vatican II was in the 60's.

I figure that there's a pretty good chance that the next Pope might be a major reformer judging from the present criticisms others have of the Church.

Come to think of it, the same thing happened at my Gran's funeral. Gran was a wonderful woman-- a nurse for 51 years, very active in her church, well-known in her small town-- and at her funeral I wanted to hear about what an awesome person she was and how much the community would miss her. Instead I heard about how Jesus saves, and then the last line, "And that's how we know that Velma is now in Heaven." Needless to say, I was a little peeved. Of course she's in Heaven! That goes without saying! And even if you as a pastor have some doubts, I wouldn't suggest expressing those to a grieving family. We all know she's in Heaven! You don't need to prove it to us! TACKY!

*ahem*

Sorry about that.

BTW, 33girl, that episode of Cheers is a classic in my family!

When my own children were preparing for confirmation, I sat them down and asked if they were SURE they wanted to because it IS an important decision. Yes, I would have had "issues" to deal with if they had decided NOT to do it, but I would have trusted their choice.

Personal opinion-I think raising a child in BOTH Jewish and Christian teachings would be confusing for the child.

I have problems with Christian faiths that condemn others- because a person is Jewish, Catholic, Muslim etc.... It is RAMPANT here and I find myself disliking a person INITIALLY, if I discover they are of one faith in particular. I am working on it, but not getting too far because the people I have contact with are so dead set, they are immovable.

It's very difficult to enjoy the company of someone who thinks you are going straight to hell! :rolleyes:

I was raised Catholic and wholeheartedly embraced every aspect of my religion. When it came time for me to be confirmed (at age 14), I was very excited about it.

Over time though, and through sheer laziness more than anything else, I kind of lost touch with the Catholic church and became a "Twice a year" Catholic.

By the time I met my husband, I was rarely attending Mass and he was an Episcopalian who rarely attended services. We were married in a (for lack of a better term) generic Protestant service by a Navy chaplain.

When I was pregnant with our first child, however, we realized that we definitely wanted to raise our children as we were; going to a Mass or service every week and embracing a certain religion. It really wasn't hard to decide that we would raise them as members of the Episcopal Church mainly because I wasn't sure what sort of "paper work" I would need to obtain since their father and I hadn't been married in a Catholic church. Also, I felt comfortable with that faith since it is basically an offshoot of Catholicism.

Last year, it finally felt like the right thing for me to do to be confirmed in the Episcopal Church. So I started taking classes and was received last month (since I had been previously confirmed, I didn't need to be reconfirmed). It's nice for me to be "officially" of the same faith as my husband and daughters, but it's not really something I discuss with my parents since I sense it's something they're not completely comfortable with. My sister, who is an EXTREMELY devout Catholic is very happy for me and I'm glad about that :)

I grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago, and attended a parish which was one of the largest in the Chicago Archdiocese. In our church, confirmation is a two-year process. You start on your journey in the 7th grade, and you make your confirmation at the end of 8th grade. I never questioned that I wanted to be confirmed. My brothers essentially went along with the idea to a) make my parents happy, b) attend the confirmation retreat (which was a free get-out-of school day) and c) get the presents they weren't going to get for graduation. On my parents' part, it was expected that since they were raising us Catholic, we would be confirmed.

After I graduated from college, I went back and taught 8th grade CCD for a while. Although there were a few kids who decided not to make their confirmations, most did. My hometown is overwhelming Catholic - over 90%, and is populated by a lot of former Southside Irish, Poles, and Italians. Tradition is important. If you decide not to send your kids to the Catholic school (which is a good school, but no better than at least two of the public schools here), you send your kids to CCD. They make their Communion in 3rd grade, First Confession in 4th, and they are Confirmed in 8th. Period.

I still attend the church, although I do not agree 100% with all of its teachings. I have looked into other churches and worship styles, but I feel most comfortable here. I find beauty in the service and in the worship of God, and tend to ignore the things I don't agree with. I don't think there's a perfect religion; no matter how inspired any one sect is, it is still being run by fallable humans. I found the religion that works for me, and I am happy that I was Confirmed. Other people in my class have converted to different religions, and I think that's good too. God can be worshiped in many different ways, and there are many beautiful ways to seek him.

I was raised in the Presbyterian church, which is known for being fairly tolerant and open. (In some people's opinion's, too much so.) I was confirmed in 4th grade, which I admit was a bit young, but my minister knew I was mentally and spiritually old enough to go through with it. My minister was a really cool guy and I felt his sermons were some of the best I've ever heard. He showed how the bible applied to a normal everyday life, and he avoided the hell fire and guilt trips that I've heard in many other churches. But gradually I came to question a lot of things, especially in high school when I started seriously studying the bible. I wondered why it was ok to not do something when the bible said that you had to, or vice versa. And the concept of the trinity confused me. I wasn't a big fan of the "Divine Mysteries" and people saying "It just is, don't question." So I went thru a period where I was a moral but definitely arreligious person, though I still believed in God. I studied every religion I possibly could and came to find Islam. Even for someone who doesn't believe in it, it's such a fascinating religion. And it's one of the three Abrahamic faiths (Judaism and Christianity being the other 2), so I still could follow God. It was a really long process because I wasn't sure if changing my affiliation was for me. Also, being non-Baptist in Alabama isn't what you'd call easy. :)

So I have a related question after reading these posts -- at what point does one decide that there are just so many things about one's religion that she should part ways with it? How do you choose a religion, then, if you're going to convert?

I guess, and I hope this statement doesn't offend anyone because that is not my intent, I just don't understand why people say they're, say, Catholic for example, but they don't really "follow the rules" so to speak. I know someone who considers herself to be CATHOLIC -- very Catholic. She goes to anti-abortion rallies and goes to church all the time and does all of these things based upon what she perceives to be her duty as a Catholic. However, she is also separated from her husband and has had sex with another guy, while still married. I'm no expert on the Catholic faith, but I'm guessing that's not something that's really promoted. I'm not saying that people should be perfect, but I'm saying that I don't get it.

Wouldn't it make more sense, if you are not going to modify your behavior according to your religious beliefs, to find a faith that agrees at least in large part with your personal beliefs and/or behavior? I hope this makes sense, and again, I hope I don't offend anyone. I just want to understand.

RE: Valkyrie's question


The reason I have stayed Catholic is that I agree with the very fundamentals of the Catholic Church. I don't agree with a lot of other things the Church says, as I'm sure can be picked up from my posts, but I like Catholicism more than I have liked any other religion.

My mother was raised Church of England and my father Jewish. Makes for an interesting conbination, I know. Since neither of my parents were practicing in either religeon,I was raised to explore all religions. Although we never went to church or synagog, both my parents told me that they would be happy to take me where I wanted to go. I have always had a belief in a Supreme Being, but until recently I have never put a religious label to it. Recently, I have been exploring Judaism much more in depth. It's so interesting to realize that it is a part of you ethnically, not only as a belief. I still don't attend any services anywhere regularly, as I am still getting comforable with my discovery of my own beliefs. But this winter break, I am planning on going on a trip to Israel, which I think will help me a lot.

I converted because I had issues w/ gender relations ( and a few other things) as described in the Bible. It seemed to me, especially in Paul's letters to the early church, that it was a necessary evil to marry, fall in love, have sex, etc. Celibacy, besides being damn difficult, is also unhealthy. Love is a gift from God, and it seemed to me like the church wanted to supress it as much as possible which didn't seem natural. Plus there is a lot of stuff in the Bible about women that I didn't agree with, like them remaining silent in church and things like that. Some people say "Oh well, it's not applicable to today's society." Then why did I want to follow the bible? Up until 3 years ago, Alabama had a law banning interracial marriage. Try enforcing that!! It seemed to me to be an impotent document, especially considering the alterations it had thru the centuries. I wasn't sure what to believe. Islam, despite popular lore, grants women lots of rights that are religiously ordained, not just "well hey it's ok if they do this." Like the right of inheritance, right to her own assets, right to divorce, etc. Also, it encourages people to live their lives, within moral boundaries of course. It doesn't regard the human condition as unnatural and there's no concept of original sin. Enough of my preaching, but basically in a nut shell is what influenced me. I'm curious to hear from other people who converted to something other than what they were raised

My family is Catholic and there, we went through Confirmation in the 2nd grade.

I thought you had to have had your first confession before your first communion? :confused:

I did both in 2nd grade - first confession was about a month before first communion. Then, confirmation in 8th grade.

Re: AEPHI Alum's question: I thought you had to have had your first confession before your first communion? I don't think there's a hard and fast rule regarding the order in which you first make your Communion and when you make your Confession. My older brother made his on the same day in second grade. We moved that next year, and the parish that I grew up in chooses to do it this way. Other parishes in our area reverse the two sacraments. In my Archdiocese, at least, it seems to be a local decision as to when you experience each sacrament.

Valkyrie, I think you asked a great question. Although I do not agree with every tenet of the Catholic church, I agree with most of them. I don't believe it is possible that I would agree with every tenet of any faith. As for thinking about converting, while I was in my early 20's, I did research other religions. I bought books, talked to friends, talked to preachers and lay people alike and went to other church services. I didn't feel comfortable in any of the other churches. I guess I just knew deep down that this is my religion, this is what I believe, and this is how I like to worship God.

I could go on all day :)

My break from Catholicism happened gradually. I think the process started when I asked a question in 7th grade CCD and was basically told to shut up and accept what I was told - and I realized that Catholicism doesn't exactly encourage questions and debate. I started having problems with the idea of the infallibility of the Pope, having to go through a priest to get absolution for your sins, and on and on. When I realized I wasn't so sure about Jesus being God, it occurred to me that maybe Christianity wasn't the right choice for me - since that's kind of a core belief :)

There was never a doubt in my mind that there is a God and that God is one. This narrowed the field a bit.

I'd learned a lot about Judaism already, just from having grown up in a very Jewish neighborhood with a lot of Jewish friends. I did do my homework and investigate other faiths, but I felt drawn to Judaism.

I will add that I have some big problems with the Orthodox movement. Orthodox women are very much relegated to the home, and I won't accept that. The Orthodox also have a very strict and unbending interpretation of the laws, and have not adjusted much to the times we live in. So I chose the Reform movement, which is a lot more egalitarian and flexible.

(Because I did not convert through the Orthodox movement, the Orthodox do not recognize me as Jewish. Know what - I don't care. :p )