Stupid, Stupid,Stupid!
 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...05/MN94963.DTL


Santa Cruz mourns one that didn't get away
Beloved campus koi stolen, possibly grilled
Alan Gathright, Chronicle Staff Writer Thursday, June 5, 2003

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Two frat boys could face felony fish theft and cruelty charges for koi- napping a beloved jumbo goldfish from a pond at UC Santa Cruz -- and reportedly barbecuing and eating it.

On a campus renowned for vegetarian devotion and counterculture values, anger over the slaying of the gentle, 15-year-old giant gold carp named Goldie was further fueled by news that the confessed thieves were Delta Omega Chi members, an off-campus fraternity that is being taped by MTV network's "Fraternity Life" reality show.

"FRAT Bastards" screamed a headline atop Wednesday's edition of the alternative campus newspaper, Fish Rap Live! It bore a cartoon showing a fraternity kegger/barbecue at the campus koi pond with a frat brother biting into a wide-eyed koi as others are passed out or romping in the pool while a TV camera captures the mayhem.

The furor was inflamed by reports that the fish filchers used a stolen rake to whack Goldie and then scoop her from the pond during the early-morning raid on May 20.


'SENSE OF VIOLATION'
"I've heard from both students and staff a sense of violation," said David Evan Jones, provost at the university's Porter College, where Goldie was the celebrated big fish -- 18 inches -- in a small courtyard pond.

"It's more than a fish -- it's a pet," Jones said. "So students are reacting to the loss of an animal that they've grown to know and love that was taken away and killed."

The whiskered carp was a 1995 gift from David Swanger, an education and creative writing professor. Koi have an average life span of 25 to 35 years -- and some legendary Japanese specimens span two centuries, according to koi fanciers -- so the 15-year-old Goldie was cut down in her youth.

During her life, Goldie had survived raids by raccoons and had become a favorite among students who hand-fed her treats and among kids from the campus day-care center who visited regularly.

"Poor little fish was just swimming around minding his own business," fumed Deborah Munos, an attendant at the campus entrance kiosk. "It's absolutely ridiculous."

Several saddened and angry students were drawn to the peaceful pool where dozens of ornamental carp still glide.


'SWIM WITH THE ANGELS'
"Goldie, swim with the angels," someone wrote on a cardboard memorial bearing a color sketch of the 18-inch fish propped up on the triangular pond Wednesday afternoon. "F-- MTV!" scrawled a less diplomatic scribe.

"Why would they take a fish that's been here for years just to do something crazy," said Crystal Doyal, a senior psychology major. "I'm just so mad."

MTV quickly disavowed any role in the koi caper.

"MTV had no involvement in this incident," said network spokeswoman Eileen Quast. "We didn't shoot the incident and have no plans to include it in the story line." Filming of the local frat episode ends this week and will air later in the year.

This was not the first time shenanigans with wildlife have sparked controversy during filming of MTV's "Fraternity Life" show. A University of Buffalo frat currently on the show drew a district attorney's investigation in March after on-camera frat pledges broke into the local zoo and pondered aloud about stealing an animal as a mascot before leaving empty-handed, according to the Associated Press.


TWO MALE STUDENTS
UC Santa Cruz spokeswoman Elizabeth Irwin said a campus police investigation indicated that the two male students are the only ones on the hook for the incident -- with no involvement by their fraternity. The university isn't identifying the pair because no legal action has been taken, but police reports will be referred to the district attorney for possible prosecution. A student judiciary committee could also impose punishment ranging from a written reprimand to suspension or expulsion.

"Rumor has it that the fish was cooked and eaten," said Santa Cruz County District Attorney Bob Lee, who said he hasn't received the police paperwork and couldn't confirm details of the escapade. Speaking hypothetically, he said, because the fish was valued at more than $400 -- police estimated $750 -- the men could face charges of grand theft and animal cruelty.

At the gray-blue, three-story frat house overlooking the Santa Cruz boat harbor, a young man wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with "Need Sex" and using a walker answered the door Wednesday. A TV sound boom hovered overhead, but the frat brother said he couldn't speak with the press.


MTV CONTRACT
"We're under contract with MTV, so we can't talk about anything," he said. An MTV producer appeared from behind the house to confirm the restriction and also declined to comment.

Irwin said the two students came forward Tuesday, expressed remorse for the fish fatality and paid $650 to cover the cost of a replacement koi.

But fish fans want the pair deep-fried -- especially at Porter, home to UCSC arts programs and "arty" students who embrace an "alternative" philosophy, according to residents.

"Porter is anti-MTV and anti-frat generally," said a college resident who only identified himself as Eric. "Combine the two and then steal a fish -- of course people are going to be pissed off."

E-mail Alan Gathright at agathright@sfchronicle.com

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=34740 :)

What idiots. Tring to impress mtv probably. All these locals on MTV are going to get themselves disbanned for all these stupid stunts.

If they show this horrific incident on MTV, I am so sure that PETA (or any other animal rights organization; ASPCA or the Humane Society) will get involved. I am furious and vowed to boycott the new season of Fraternity Life. Another thing, I wonder if MTV put these numbskulls up to the heinous task or they thought it up themselves. Poor little fish!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/angryfire.gif http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/screams.gif http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/bawling.gif http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...ad/nervous.gif :mad:

From what I understand, MTVs official position is that they weren't aware of/supporting this incident, and it isn't on camera...and Casey from DOC said that it was the act of two individuals and the fraternity was upset with them for doing it. But, I don't trust the whole situation anyway, so you just never know.

Very stupid guys. Poor fish. :( RIP Goldie

What other than a property crime makes this special? They killed a fish and ate it. Koi cost a few hundred dollars but they are pretty easily replaced.

I kind of wonder what a $300 fish tastes like.

I think people are blowing this way out of proportion.

While Goldie wasn't the official UCSC mascot, the koi was revered by a lot of people in the UCSC community, so I don't think a measly $300 is enough restitution for this.

What makes Goldie any different from the Bulldog at UGA? The Falcon at the Air Force Academy? Or any other campus that has a live animal as a symbol of their institution?

The bottom line is, these guys are morons. Whether or not MTV or the fraternity tries to wash their hands of the situation, I doubt that they'll be able to convince the public otherwise.

I really think some people are just way too insensitive.

I'm not defending them.

I just think people are getting way too bent out of shape over a fish. You said it yourself, it's not the mascot or emblem of the community -- it's just a fish.

I'd be a little more upset if they killed and ate the UGA Bulldog:D

?
So what if it wasn't the school mascot? To a lot of people, it wasn't just koi. The provost even said it was a pet...if someone came into your house and cooked and ate your pet, I doubt it'd be so easy to blow off.

Don't forget the 'official' mascot of UC Santa Cruz is the Banana Slug.

Know that place like the back of my hand... the company I worked for wired up the dorms and apartments for computer networking. They got a good little snack bar that sells killer burritos.

Dont forget that UC Santa Cruz is known as a bastion of subversive thinking and political correctness. The city limit signs proudly proclaim they are a 'nuclear free zone'. (Note to the Pentagon planners: for the next update of the SIOP (Single Integrated Operational Plan, the US nuclear war plan) ...drop bomb there ;) :) :D)

And it's one of the few universities that actually have residential colleges: where you major is also where you live. I'd be suspect of any university that openly displays a mural with Che Guevara painted on it. :)

But I can't complain about the scenery, though... it is a beautiful campus at the top of a hill; in some parts you can easily see the ocean.

Let me apologize in advance if I am taking ktsnakes comments out of context.

It seems to me that he might be implying that it is a subjectively sensitive issue.

To the groups of people that liked the koi, that hate fraternities, that like drama, that love animals, and/or anthromorphasize (sp?) animals.

To them its really serious.

But does the sensitivity of those groups make this into an objectively larger issue?

In the grand scheme of things is this a large issue? Or a big deal even by implication?

But the outrage and the shouts to "Kill the frat bastards" in my opinion take it a little too far. If they had stolen a $300 antique vase and smashed it I don't think we'd be hearing the same song.

Despite what some people say, fish are not people too.

I think it's important to note that the cries of "kill the frat bastards!" were not exactly unheard of before the fish incident. The whole campus has taken it pretty extreme....a mean, a couple months ago, some kid fell out of his window and died (in the same residential area the fish was in) and there was a mini blurb in the paper about it. But Goldie's incident was on national television and newspapers...kinda crazy when you think about it. I think the sheer random factor gives it alot of attention also- I mean who takes an old fish, and then supposedly grills and eats it? It has Jackass/Tom Green show written all over it.

I'm a student at the University of Tennessee. Smokey (the dog) isn't our official mascot, it's the Volunteer, however if someone killed and ate Smokey, im sure many people on campus would be upset.

That's what you call a false analogy.

In our culture a fish is not the same thing as a dog. People kill and eat fish all the time. At least in the US they do not do this with dogs.

Comparing Smokey to a Koi is a false analogy.

But do people eat koi? (I dislike all fish, so I don't know.)

I'm sure you could. You cook and clean most fish the same way.

I suppose you could eat a koi if you really wanted some awful fish. Koi are part of the carp family, (basically overgrown goldfish to put it in the simplest of terms.) so they would not be good to eat, though I have been told that the Filet o fish at McDs is basically a filet o carp, but I digress. But to answer the question, can you eat a koi, sure you can, but it won't probably taste all that great. Do people normally eat koi, not in my experience. They are more for looks and having in ponds.

BTW, apparently they can cost a little more than $300, some going for $1000, and more! (check out the site http://www.coloradokoi.com ) I mean the fish was 15 years old, and these things can live 30-40 years...along those lines, who would eat an old cow? The meat would be tough and probably not as good.

I disagree. Goldie wasn't just a fish, she was a pet. People do eat fish, but they do not eat pets. I eat fish. I also have two fish as pets. I am quite attatched to them and I would be very, very upset if someone stole, cooked, and ate them.

I'm inclined to agree with GreekyPenguin that the wierdness issue got this more press.

Well said KKC!

Do you attach the same importance to fish that you do cats or dogs?

Yes, if they're pets.

Thank you for catching the point!

I do.. I have 3 fish as pets, and I feed them, take care of them, and will even treat them if they get sick, just as I would if I had a cat or dog as pets.

KillarneyRose, you are right. Once you give an animal a name, you can't kill it or it would be very hard to it. It is very poor taste and judgement to do just that!

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili.../pinkieone.gif http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/monalisa.gif http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...ur/twinkle.gif

How can you say it isn't a big deal? You say comparing a pet fish to a dog is like comapring apples to oranges. It's not like these two idiots went fishing and caught something to cook up for supper. They deliberatly went to go get this fish and then ate it?! This was a fish that people enjoyed and loved, and had some sort of importance to the campus because it had been there for 15 years - and his life was taken by two idiot guys.

If they wanted a fish, they could have gone to the supermarket - they obviously did this to be jerks and hurt some people who cared for the fish. Dog, fish, cat, cockroach - if something is of importance to other people, it is cruel!

Now - I do find disappointment in what someone else posted about the death of someone made a little blurb, but the fish got front page. It is said how they hold human life in a lower reguard than a fish.

I'm not saying it was right and I'm not defending the behavior of the guys that did this.

What I'm saying is the same thing many of you are saying.

While bad, this event is being blown far out of proportion. I'd be more likely to think they should have destruction of public property charges against them rather than animal cruelty though.

I'm not defending the newspaper (or whatever source it was) that put the fish on the front page, but I don't think it meant in any way that the death of a fish was more important than a human life that was lost...that is just the way the newpaper was laid out. Editors & layout people probably don't expect people to 'analyze' why they assembled the stories on the paper the way that they did.. but that's just my .02. If the fish story was controversial at the time (which it seems it is.. esp. in that area it happened in), of course they are going to put it in a place everyone can see so they can read about it.

Also, to be fair to the paper, an editor is going to want a front page story that sells his paper. A person dies.. well that happens all of the time and we're pretty familiar with it.

A *fraternity* kills a fish in the school pond? Well that's news. No one likes fraternities, everyone loves the fish. That sells papers.

KappaKittyCat said it best. The value of animals in this culture has to do with people's attachment to them.

The South Carolina mascot is a gamecock. This is a male chicken. Male chickens are fried up every day in the campus cafeteria, and nobody minds.

But if somebody stole and ate the mascot, people would be furious, and rightly so. The community has a relationship with that particular animal. They know him, they see him, and they will miss him when he dies.

That's what makes this incident disgusting. It's not about killing a fish -- people do that every day -- and it's not about destroying $700 worth of property -- people do that every day, too.

It's about the fact that anybody with half a clue could have realized that many people WOULD take this loss personally. It shows a total lack of regard for how other people feel. Obviously this fish meant nothing to the eaters...but if the article is true, then it should have been obvious to everybody on that campus that it did mean a lot to others. And these guys didn't give a second thought to the fact that their classmates cared about this fish like a pet, and thus that it was not replaceable. They went ahead and had their fun and screw the consequences to anybody else.

That's what makes me sick.

Ivy

Santa Cruz (CA) Sentinel
June 8, 2003

Protest staged at fraternity

By ROBYN MOORMEISTER
Sentinel staff writer

About 20 protesters gathered in front of the MTV-sponsored Delta Omega Chi
house on Lake Street Saturday afternoon to deliver a strong message: MTV
and frat boys, go away.

The protesters are upset with the fraternity for reportedly taking part in
the killing of a prized koi fish and for their alleged sexist behavior,
such as wearing T-shirts that say "Freshman girls: Get them while they’re
skinny."

Charges of misdemeanor grand theft and malicious mischief were filed Friday
against frat members Casey Loop and Matthew Cox. The two allegedly stole
the fish from a pond at Porter College, killed her and fed her to pledges.
An MTV film crew has been living with and filming the frat members at their
house at 354 Lake St. for a "reality show" to be aired in September.

Protesters say the frat’s spot in the limelight has been egging them on.

"It’s disconcerting that MTV is following these people around with cameras
and glamorizing sexual harassment and cruelty to animals," said protester
Kelah Bott. "That’s not what Santa Cruz is about. If they wanted to film
reality, they should be out here filming this (protest)."

MTV employees did not come out of the frat house Saturday to talk with
protesters who were chanting "Nothing to hide? Let us inside," and carrying
hand-painted signs with messages such as "Fry up a frat boy instead."

"Fraternities have never been a big part of UCSC," bystander and UCSC
computer systems employee Ramone Berger said. "Most students are surprised
when you tell them UCSC has fraternities."

Members of the fraternity were not at the house during the protest— they
had been told to stay away by the Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office, said
deputy Sal Bisagno.

"It was an agreement that was made between MTV and the sheriff’s office,"
Bisagno said.

He and two other deputies stood on the sidewalk to oversee the protest,
which was not violent and lasted about two hours.

Copyright © Santa Cruz Sentinel. All rights reserved.

I definately agree that maybe MTV's precense has "egged on" these ridiculous guys.

From what I understood, this particular fraternity petitioned to be part of the show... and I think their behavior is a disgrace to the entire greek community. :(

Now there will be even more hostility towards greeks at UCSC. I hope that it doesn't negatively impact NBO and wishinhopin.

OK, I KNOW I'm going to be sorry I asked this, but how on earth do you tell a fish is male or female until it reproduces? I'm really really hoping that's how they found out this one was a she.

And I will go ballistic if I read one more article by a supposedly professional newspaper that uses the term "frat" unless it's a direct quote. Even though what these guys are doing isn't worthy of being called fraternity, it still makes the paper look exceptionally trashy and stupid.

In some species of fish you can determine gender by the way they grow... I can't remember.. I think it was guppies? The males are usually the skinnier ones with beautiful tails.

I'm not sure about koi though :confused:

My guess is that the paper was using the feminine pronoun simply because a long time ago someone named the fish Goldie and decided that it was a female.

I also bristle when I read the word "frat" in print.

I think that some people are missing the concept of why this is so offensive. It isn't like, oh, they stole a fish, then they ate it, woop de do. They knew how important that fish was to people- I mean Santa Cruz is known for some wierd stuff, and this is one of those things. My guess is that they wanted to do something to essentially spit in the face of Santa Cruz counterculture- a, you hate us, well guess what, we hate you too, sortof thing. This is all just in theory. But my point is, everyone is so distraught largely because of the intent behind the action, not just because a pet fish was killed. And if anyone doubts that, you should go check out the memorial service they've had at the pond...people have left messages, memories they have of the fish, thoughts on the matter. There's been a whole poster thing to write on, and I'm pretty sure all the little kids who came up to visit the koi all the time did some sort of tribute also. It's all just stupid. And it makes me so mad because our school newspaper, the Santa Cruz Sentinel, the San Francisco Chronicle- all of these publications are lumping all greeks in with DOC. They talk about Santa Cruz never used to be like this, until all the fraternities and sororities showed up. And the presence of my sorority- and the majority of other Greek organizations on campus- has done nothing to ruin UCSC, but we're treated as though we have. To top all of this off, the fish was stolen from a pond at Porter College. UCSC is divided into ten colleges, each with residence halls or apartments and classrooms. You can have any major and live at any college, but certain stereotypes hold true. College Eight is for the preppies, Oakes is the ghetto, Stevenson is jocks, etc. It's like high school. Anyway, my point is that Porter College is alot of art students- and they also happen to be probably the most anti-Greek college, and they most vocal group of people against us. So for this to happen in their college is just an even huger backlash. I'm just ranting and raving now, thanks for listening everyone.

According to a couple webpages I looked at, male koi are longer and slimmer than the females, with longer fins. The males and females also have different-shaped gills.

It's quite possible that someone just "decided" it was a she, though.